[Colin Bland]

I have had a client talking to me all day ammending a design that he agreed for production yesterday.
The icing on the cake was he rang me tonight while i was having dinner with the family so i let the call go to answerphone and would have called him back about 10 mins later when i had finished my dinner not bad service for 7.45 at night !!
However this was obviously not good enough as he continued to call me another 6 times before he finally realised that i wasnt going to answer. When i rang him back it was to tell me that he wants the street number on the sign !!!

[Colin Bland]

I agree chase them for payment – we are allways wary of fitting products made by others unless material clearly identified etc.
Part of the problem is likely to be salon related we hate installing window graphics in salons as allways a problem to stick – i think it must be something they use in salons hairspray possibly that causes adhesion problems

[Colin Bland]

We have got 5m 8ft x 2 ft tower which gets you 6.5m practical working height with outriggers and have used for years inside and outside in awkward situations etc we can also split it down and with an extra set of wheels build two towers side by side for lower level work very useful. if we need cherry picker or scissor lift we hire in for the job that way we get the machine we really need and as we cover quite an area geographically we can usually get it delivered to site leaving us with a whole van for signs.
Agree with Rob they ar fairly useless on the high street. Good for pub work getting over projecting roofs conservatories etc and for Retail park.
Scissor lifts also good but some machines very heavy again no good on pavements as risk damage to pavements unless you board them to spread load a little.
I think you are right to come away from trestle and boards stopped using them about 20 years ago didnt think they were still within h&s requirements maybe they are with guard rail attached – can someone clarify this?

Other thing to think about with cherry picker on the van is that it takes up about 50 % of the workable space inside the van.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

So we ended up advertising for free on gumtree and a guy took most of it for a university project
Would still be interested for the future if anyone has a recycler for it my local scrapyard just not interested

[Colin Bland]

Hi steve got about half a van load didnt think of schools we already give away vinyl to a primary school i might try some secondary schools

[Colin Bland]

I keep an old vistaprint magnetic on the side of my filing cabinet along with a picture of her damaged paintwork not pretty – i hate magnetics but vistaprint really do take it to the next level of c**p

[Colin Bland]

Thanks dave much appreciated

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Some nice work there Dave where did you get the mc donalds style menu boxes from? Have been looking for those for a while

Coiin

[Colin Bland]

Some great stuff there well done
We have a similar project to the summerton news where did you get those images from we cant find branded images anywhere and they look so good

Colin

[Colin Bland]

It allways amazes me how many oeople wish me good luck with my new venture and ask me when it is opening !!!
Do peeps really think that business owners fit there own signs and to do this they rock up with a van scaffolding and two guys wearing tee shirts etc with a sign company name all over them :lol1:

And yes warren i have started to signwrite the wrong van as well oops !

[Colin Bland]

Hi dave

Is there a wall or structure behind the panel which maybe you could get a long fixing into through a spacer ?

Can you remove the timber panel and add some more timber?

Can you cut an access trap in the face of the panel and add some timber that way.?

Is there a top and bottom timber run which you could connect into with some timber or a steel pate on the face of the fascia

Just some ideas

[Colin Bland]

John from memorY there is an icon on the toolbar on corel i think it is a rocket (application launcher) click on that choose cut plot and it will take you through to the cutting master or graphtec software from there you can sort orientation etc etc hope this helps

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Harpreet

[Colin Bland]

Hi David i agree with ian

I have worked for some of the big boys in the past and generally their installation notes said something like i confirm that the signage has been installed in a satisfactory condition and that the site has been left in a clean and tidy condition surprisingly simple wording

This was enough for the bean counters and to satisfy admin requirements however the reality was that often theres not a competent person on site to sign the note or it would be contested later by head office as not satisfactory etc

The only real answer i believe is personal contact i understand that you may not fit every job but i would bet that you could visit many of your jobs on the way to or from the factory and get a face to face with the client just to say hi and is everything ok with the install etc

A simple form gives you a good starting point if there is an argument but theres nothing like talking to your client face to face

Colin

[Colin Bland]

not been able to try it yet john been flat out will report as soon as we have had a chance thanks anyway

[Colin Bland]

We use a narrow tower and have done so for the past 10 years on pavements in all situations never had a problem.
Just need to be sensible make sure the tower is built correctly with handrails etc and toe boards just need to watch out for disabled people and motability type scooters on very narrow pavements.

In my opinion better and safer than ladders or trestle and board

Have fun

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Really nice work Martin i love doing this kind of work just finding the clients with the right budget is difficult well done mate

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Im with denise i think your setting are wrong my plotter occasionally changes itself to sheet for no reason just change to roll 1 or roll 2 on up and down arrows

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi roben

I used to have a creation p cut plotter and the same issues then i bought a graphtec plotter and all the issues vanished !! my p cut sits in the corner of my office gathering dust now

colin

[Colin Bland]

Kestrel boxes are ok and service good too

Just be sure to order the correct depth of box they do slimline and normal sections

Have fun

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks guys i will give them a try

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Tried Fabricut and they dont do acrylic built ups any other suggestions anybody !

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Peter

I know fabricut will give them a try any other suggestions anyboby ?

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I Have a line in my Ts &Cs which says its the clients responsibility to obtain all necessary permissions from Local authorities, landlords and any other interested parties.

Having said that I always try to have the conversation with them as well so that they are aware of the risks etc – It never ceases to amaze me when they say oh we have already met with 2 or 3 other sign companies and they didnt mention it.

On the point of Ts and Cs ive never had them properly printed onto anything – allows for some changes along the way – Im always finding something new to include

:lol1:

[Colin Bland]

Nice work Hugh

Like the fine floristry and Randalls jobs especially.

Did you print the flip flops?

[Colin Bland]

Black Mamba

wasnt she in Kill Bill 😀

[Colin Bland]

cheers Chris that is the one i want

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Given the age of the neon I would be inclined to offer the client a conversion to LED illumination.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Karl

a few factors come into play I think

1) how old is the neon and is it good bending

2) how has the neon been installed is it a good installation or is the glass under stress, electrodes incorrectly connected etc

3) how much experience do you have of neon

4) and the hidden one not necessarily to do with the glass but the overall installation – i often maintain neon which has been installed often poorly by others with no electrode sleeves no proper earth bonding of letter faces etc etc
If you remove and re-install you need to ensure that it is installed in accordance with current regulations not just reinstalled as you find it.

I would take a few letter faces off and check the condition and installation before quoting and then include a clause in the contract that although you will proceed with care the client pays for any broken neon

Last thing make sure your insurance covers you for neon installation some companies specifically exclude neon as has high risk

have fun

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Kev
thanks for that will give them a try
Next time you’re passing drop in
Our unit is nothing great but we do some ok work
would be good to meet you

All the best

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Martin

you’re welcome anytime were right next to kwikfit

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Hugh

I have done this a few times simply buy some a4 clear acrylic poster holders the type that are one piece of acrylic and spring open at the top then cut a vinyl border 12mm smaller all round than the acrylic and as wide as you like to make the border around the poster – apply the border to the rear of the glass and then apply the clear acrylic pocket on 12mm vhb tape to the border ensuring that you leave a gap in the tape to stop condensation build up.

have fun

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I would say outsource to a local printer – we have received more work in return than we have actually subbed to them win win 😀

[Colin Bland]

This has happened to us a few times even though we have copyright notice on all our drawings

I have even had one where the guy did not know what the telephone number would be for his new shop so we dropped in our own number just for the purposes of the visual and a few weeks later we saw our design on his shopfront complete with our telephone number !! 😀

Next time we are going to pursue a design fee

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Jan

just what i wanted

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Cheers Phil spot on thanks

Colin

:police: Mod-Edit
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* This posts Title has now been edited.

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.

[Colin Bland]

I had one the other week client brought in a hideous design that her 6year old son had done !! – so I politely said we could do something with it and set about redrawing the logo etc keeping the flavour of the design – she flipped out when she saw it and insisted that we make the sign exactly as her sons design didnt argue just done it money in the bank but looks crap – Im sure her son will have a fantastic career as a design guru 😕

You just cant help some peeps

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Neil

the ashby guide is good but remember to take into account ground conditions
if planting a sign into loose soil you will need more depth than if you were planting in say concrete /hardcore ground.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

When you cut the backing paper just fold it over so that the fluffy edge does not come into contact with the vinyl works for me

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Looks real good Hugh given me inspiration to get my car done now

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I done some work with one of the large car companies that broke into the Emerging Russian market a few years ago and apparently most of the high end cars are airbrushed it helps stop them from being stolen as is too much of a problem to respray.

Also interestingly when building dealerships they had to build a bank counter with time locked strongroom in the dealership to deal with the cash payments and had armed guards on the entrance (:)

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Been working away and just logged on what a shock never met John but he helped me out a few times and I allways liked his straightforward views on the boards good commonsense, practical and will be missed

Colin

[Colin Bland]

There’s a van in my area which is a building company run by Asians and they have on the side "you’ve had the cowboys now try the Indians" 🙂

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Harry

Spot on – I checked BOTW this morning but couldn’t find it must have typed it wrong or something. 😳

Cheers

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Nice work Ade

Like the designs

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Wash the window with soapy water and then scrape it off with industrial 6" blade scraper soap down glue and scrape that off as well

Have fun

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Well job done thought I would let you know how we did it

1) Scrape film coating away from glue layer with 6inch scraper (pretty easy)

2) Wash window down with Soapy water and scrape glue off window not so easy but ok

3) clean up with meths to get spotless window

Took about 1.5 hours for a 3m x 2m window so not too bad

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Unfortunately I cant see the job till tomorrow

I was due to just apply window graphics but client and designer have decided bomb film in poor state and should be replaced also so going a little blind to strip and replace 😕

[Colin Bland]

Bump

I am looking for a similar thing to Cheryl

Doe anyone have a supplier / Method

Thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Great stuff Warren well done

Colin

[Colin Bland]

We’ve done quite a few of these usually from dibond folded and fitted over the existing shutter box in the same material as the fascia.

You need to be careful with the positioning and length of any screws as you may damage the shutter that is rolled up inside the cover that you are fitting to.

Just make sure you keep screws at the leading edges of the shutter and not in the middle of the flat face area.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi John

Try Hampshire flag recently bought from them excellent product

http://www.hampshireflag.co.uk/Banner-Arms.html

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Otto

Much appreciated

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for the positive comments guys

Apologies for treading on your area Martin you should have come and said hallo one of the fitters was me :lol1:

Got that job following another site which was a little bit closer to home and was owned by her nephew similar ideas for the projector etc and modern feel but different colors

Fascia trough lighting was existing.

Colin

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Attachments:

[Colin Bland]

Seems to me Soyeb that you are perhaps a little bit out of your depth and maybe taking chances with arguably the most crucial thing the dimensions.

Why not find a good local company who will carry out the survey and install and maybe even some of the manufacture leaving you to produce the design etc.

Will allow you to get on with earning money at what you are good at and could end up more profitable in the long run 😀

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I agree with you Rob

I normally allow plenty of room for things to breath however the client was really hooked into bigger is better and wouldn’t be swayed and he was paying the money !

It does look better in real life as the sun is giving quite a deep shadow on the picture which doesnt help the cause.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

My biggest bug is when someone calls you about a job discusses it with you over the phone everything seems great and then says ok I will come and see you this afternoon or whatever and doesn’t turn up. This most often happens on a saturday where I don’t particularly want to be tied to the unit.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for help
have spoken with the client and they are going to wait till the weather warms up a little.

Looks like they may have a long wait !

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for your advice weather looks to be getting colder over next week as well Doh!!

Heating up from the inside may be a good way of doing it

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for comments Dave – the health and safety man (you look at pictures too closely by the way) was actually the manager of the bookmakers opposite who was not a very nice character my lead fitter is a West indian guy and that idiot was jibing him all day – but my guy kept his cool as usual.

I would probably agree with you Martin that the column clad is not totally in keeping with the restaurant (colour choice was the clients likes the bling)

But we had to do something as leaving the hideous tiling was really not an option.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for kind comments the lighting feature was the only thing we didn’t design just fabricated and it looked stunning

Colin

[Colin Bland]

are you having a gloss face of matt face ?

You will need to be more careful if gloss face at the angle would witness on the face – we sometimes use an offcut of alucobond say 150mm wide bond that into back of panel and then bond the angle to it spreads the load a little

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I think what I was looking for was the one thing in terms of product that you really excel at – we should all give good customer service and have integrity not so sure if all have common sense 😀

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for all your input

I don’t belong to FSB at the moment are there many other benefits of joining.

Had another client this morning come in the unit ordered signs asked him for a deposit and he didn’t have any money on him so sent him off to the cashpoint – probably wont come back !

Definitely gonna go for it thanks all.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Peter many many thanks dug me out of a hole

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Peter

thanks but says file is corrupted when I bring into corel is there something I’m doing wrong?

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for trying guys

Managed to get another file from designer would one of you mind trying this for me

Thanks again

Colin

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Attachments:

deluxebutterfly.zip

[Colin Bland]

Hi Shaun

Very easy in this business to get out of your depth very quickly – I have been doing this for 30 years at all levels in the business and still learn something every time i walk down a high street not all of it good !!

Looking at some of your previous posts it is apparent that you have a lot to learn. I would suggest that you keep clear of fascia sign installation until you have more confidence and more importantly the equipment to carry out the installation safely.

I would suggest employing sub contract fitters and then going on site to "supervise" the installation – if they are good you will learn loads.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I advertise in yellow pages in my area and the two areas either side of ours.
We have a colour quarter page in our local area and black and yellow eighth in surrounding areas.

We find content is important and telephone number is important – people using yellow pages want you to be very local.

Yell.com is a waste of space in our opinion and we only have minimal presence

Having said all that the ads pay for themselves and it has helped a couple of times with verifying that we are legit company etc etc

But has been said before our the bulk of our work comes from recommendation and just getting out there and talking to people

Colin

[Colin Bland]

We complete work as soon as we possibly can will stretch larger jobs out to 2 weeks but if someone walks in off the street and wants something the same day we will do it if its possible. With finding new work this is something we do constantly – when fitting new signs we always take a walk up and down the street handing out leaflets and generally introducing ourselves – its a constant juggling act but isn’t that why we like it !

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Jill

You never stop learning Huh

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Been looking at this thread

Jill and Rob can you explain the technique that you use to keep the reflection on the glass when you have applied the etch on the visuals.

Mine allways end up looking like they are applied on the outside on my visuals

Thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Chris tried all that and still didnt work so reset all the settings in Cutting master and found that the restrict media movement is now working properly – had that setting before but just wasnt doing it – must have lost its way

Thanks for suggestions

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Cheers Neil I will look at that

Chris so if I regroup the letters you think that may solve the problem?

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Ade

Like the Bam Beans is that aluminium composite panels?

How did you do the corner looks so sharp and square

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks for all your input

I currently run 2 main folders Enquiries and contracts

When an enquiry becomes a job we transfer the files across

and under each folder we then file as

01 client (the 01 helps us to keep in running order ie 01 would be the beginning of the year and 50,001 wishful thinking ! would be the end of the year)

/job

/artwork or /quotations

Was great when I worked on my own but as we grow i see more misfiles so time for a change I think

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Guys really useful

Colin

[Colin Bland]

He He Nice try Phill

Not quite what I was looking for especially as one of the beauty services they offer is massage !!!!

Thanks anyway

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Lorraine

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Cheers Rich

Tried 3mm all round but was obviously not enough

I will give 10mm a go

Thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Rich
I’m doing a sign like this at the moment how much of an offset did you put around the letters for the vinyl any help appreciated

thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Never actually bought it in my own company know of it from working at other larger companies I guess any of the large steel stockholders will be able to help
Happy hunting

Colin

[Colin Bland]

How about a sheet of galvatite

Basically galvanised sheet steel but i think you can buy in 18 or 20 gauge should be ok screwed directly to an office wall

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Chris

Thanks again you have really helped me out

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Many thanks Chris

Colin

[Colin Bland]

hi Chris thanks for your help couldnt type "indian ocean" for me could you would be much appreciated

Thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Chris thanks for looking anyway

Can anyone else help really stuck on this one

Thanks

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I agree that you should listen to the client and I will often sketch out by hand in front of the client. My point was that they will generally get a better design if I am allowed the extra little time and without them jumping in every 5 mins to have their design input. They dont necessarily pay any more.

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I have designed in front of client many times but no more.

I think they often get a poor design if they are watching as it doesn’t let me play and discard the crap ideas – they usually see something they like in the design process and insist on having it.

ie I would normally start with vehicle outline and then just type out all the text etc in Arial and rough size before I start playing with font design etc its amazing how many people want you to stop at that point.

Some would say happy days take the money and run but you have got to have pride in your work and i would hate my clients to have arial roughly applied.

So now clients don’t even see the computer and I say I will give this to the designer to produce a design – nobody has ever questioned why I dont do the design 😀

[Colin Bland]

I used to send PDF but got ripped off a couple of times so now use Jpeg

The best one was a client who didn’t know what his telephone number was going to be so I put my own telephone number on rather than making one up just for the visual – the idea being that I wouldn’t eventually make him a sign with my own telephone number on.

Thing was I lost the job and later saw the sign produced and fitted by someone else from my design with my telephone number on – Gotcha!! 🙂

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Michael

Some nice work like the bell bet that was a pig to set up what material – method did you use for the night glow door signs

Colin

[Colin Bland]

He He sorry John 😀

It was Serpentine DEE Bold

I had it all the time just couldn’t see for looking

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Found it

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Rod

How about taking a template of the panel then transferring this to a piece of clear acrylic / acetate etc then mark inside the template line the thickness of border line you require and cut the acrylic to this shape

You now have a clear acrylic shape which you can lay over your graphic and cut round by hand – should be ok for 5 or 10 pieces

a bit old fashion I know – didn’t always have computers !

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Cheers Jamie

Looks the ticket

Thanks

Colin

mod-edit please post in the
correct forum
this has now been moved

[Colin Bland]

nice one Kev

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Hi Angela

I have had similar problems before

You need to make sure that all surfaces totally de greased and keyed with scotch brite pad or similar so that the glue has something to bite into.

You also need to make sure that the two parts of the glue are actually mixing correctly especially when you first start using the glue

Hope this helps

Colin

[Colin Bland]

I think we are all seeing start ups with little idea of what they are actually doing and how to price the work.

This week alone I have done 2 sales calls where the client has had problems with another sign maker – neither of them were known companies the first job was approx 4.5m x 0.9m acrylic fascia panel changeover with applied vinyl into an existing box.

I saw the sign after it had gone up and it was atrocious poorly applied, the text was all over the place design was bad panel joint had no rebate or half lap etc etc you could see through the joint to the tubes.

The client refused to pay the balance of £1500 yes that’s right £1500 because the guy had not put the tel no or street number on the sign.
The so called sign maker had snatched back the sign Leaving the box and electrics open to the elements and the client £750 pound down. The client did not have an address for him or even a land line number just a mobile number – a fool and his money are soon parted comes to mind

The next job was a fascia sign approx 5.5m x 700mm again where another unknown had "fitted" 3mm black foamex panels to the face of a panatrim by face fixing through the foamex with self tappers into the trim the panels had text on pop ons screwed to the foamex the end result was that the panels had cracked both where the text was and where the panels had been fitted and of course had badly warped – its not even summer yet !

That job was done for £145 !

The end result for me was that with the first job the client liked what I had to offer but would not part with a deposit even though I have premises website yellow pages advert liveried vehicle etc etc we have come to an agreement after I got another of my clients a few shops away to vouch for me.

The second job the client told me I was overpriced – compared to what he payed before !!

I guess what I’m driving at is have faith in your own abilities know the market rate and your costs and keep one eye open for unhealthy competition.

Things are tough there will be lots of good competition which is healthy and lots of triers which I think will cause problems for legitimate businesses if we let them.

Don’t get sucked in and ensure your work is good quality at all times.

[Colin Bland]

Dan

after flame polishing you need to be careful not to get the polished edge in contact with any kind of spirit Like meths etc –

the heat from the polishing process induces stress in the acrylic and the spirit will cause small cracks to appear (crazing) you can prevent this from happening by heating up the whole piece in an oven and allowing to cool naturally this relieves the stress in the acrylic – we normally just ensure that we don’t get any spirit or fumes anywhere near

Colin

[Colin Bland]

Thanks Kevin helped me out a lot

Colin