[Simon Clayton]

[quote=How does the guy with the lip and nose ring eat? :-?[/quote]
properly through his vein..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Hi and welcome

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Well done Mate..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Why not buy one of them wood graining effect kits from B&Q, and do it yourself, on to the background?? worth a try if you get stuck

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

But if your only changing the vinyl, why should you worry?? If the guy is too tight to get new panels, and have it done properly, i would just put the vinyl up and say job done, and say to the customer “if you want a proper job, you need new panels ..

Sorry i know that don’t help……:-?

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Why not use panel locks?, glued to the panels

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I would say thats against the copy right of the film.. a quick glimps and it looks like their logo?? but who knows

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

OK a few revisions, the Guy quite likes the idea..
what do recon?

Simon

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[Simon Clayton]

What an excellent idea, but we all know its wrong to drink and drive, so why do some think they can get away with it?? Instead of campaigns, maybe they should spend the money putting them in prison for 5 years?

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Thinks can only get better mate.. sorrey to hear about all ya trouble

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

-googleye- -googleye- -googleye- -googleye- and they won’t get any of that :nag4:
Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I would shift the electrics onto the back panel as Mike has said, then drill out the pop rivets in the bottom of the box which will now become water drain holes then inside the box make up a flat plate to cover the holes, (normally there is a channel in the centre of the aluminum section) make the plate quite big, covering the holes by a good few inches either end, this will stop the light from bleeding out ( will take some experimenting) or you could just re rivet the holes and paint if needed??.. Hope that makes sense..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I would ring a marble yard.. Diamond drill bits will do it, without any hammer action.. I would be very worried about cracking the tiles, that would cost a mint to repair, as alot depends on how the tiles have been installed, some large tile are just held in place with wire ties..

A firm i worked for years ago were putting up individual letters in a reception lobby, the marking tape ripped the paper and they had to pay £600 for someone to re-paper the whole lobby, ( which was only a small area, coz the paper wouldn’t match up to the existing..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

quote southernandy:

The purpose of the CS card is to show the site management that you have some idea of what the hell you are doing. Construction firms and the HSE are Red hot on all this. Major construction firms just don’t want joe schmo the sign wallah wandering around their sites causing safety problems for themselves and all other trades on site.

Last site I worked on we had to supply risk assesments, method statements full PPE, public liability coverage of over £20 million and still we all had to do a whole mornings worth of inductions. The site we worked on had buried cables and pipes everywhere and we had to pour 12 concrete bases with over 3 tonnes of muck in each one to support the steel framed sign we had to errect- all this in spagetti junction of water pipes, gas mains and pant wettingly high voltage cables.

Just cause you wandered around a site doing this and that before does not mean you will get away with it now- no CS card, no ppe, no valid insurance and the foreman will tell you get off the site pronto. Even if you are just whacking stuff on existing hoardings you need to report in and shown your tickets- if you don’t the site agent will go nuts..

But when i was speaking to a site forman the other week, (he works on very big projects) he was telling me most of the building sites around london are full of people who can’t even speak english, who think its OK to leave live cabling wrapped in tape?? TBH i think theses cards are just a waste of time and are only for making money….

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Nice work Nik…
One reason i never got my Astra 20 GTE vinyled up was incase i had a prange..
You can end up looking more of a dill (boy racer and all that) 😕

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Cheers All,

Thanks Jill you do come up with some great ideas, love the idea of the tree through the window thing..
I was also thinking of using photos on the van, maybe try moving over to digital a bit?????but don’t want it to look like a gipsy’s van, if you know what i mean, as we have quite a few round here..

I will have to have a mess around and see what else i can come up with..
Maybe just send over a pile of designs (2-3) to him and let him pick them about.

thanks again

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

No i don’t thing so (hope not) Peter, I’ve known him years, he’s from surrey.

He has just parted company from his business partner (double glazing) and come up with the name “county windows”, he did a company search and found the name was available..did say something to me, about the other company gone belly up..

His brief.. nice lettering, must be blue and it’s got to have a tree.. also his new partner is doing kitchins, and that will properly be called “County Kitchens”??? lol

Hope you never lost any money mate? right pain in the a*se when a company goes bust on ya.. unfortunately been there

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[Simon Clayton]

As Hugh has said really main bit looks good the side writing hard to read, but overal looks like a pretty good job to me…

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

quote :

No one limits themselves to just designing or making or fitting.

I know a sign company that only did sales, they subbed everything out, and had an annual turn over of £2m. plus

I sub out 95% of all my sign installations, firstly i don’t have time to do it, secondly, it normally works out cheaper than me doing it, and lastly they have all the equipment and experience.

I would say that was also a problem with sign makers and their pricing today, most don’t charge for fitting signs, or design them, (yet designers are earn hundreds just doing designs)…

And no type of qualification will show who is good or bad, its down to their portfolio

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Hi Dave, hows it going??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

sounds about right lol 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[Simon Clayton]

I know whats happen, the guy fitting it (the customer that is and not a sign fitter) has sprayed the window with water and forgot or didn’t know the backing had to be removed, then pulled it off while wet…

I have had sheets of vinyl wet through, but when dry the backing sheet has come off fine, i’ve only had problems when cut vinyl has got wet and dryed out..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

APA do Translucent and Transparent vinyl the later would be better

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

No problems mate, Just give us a shout when you find one,

cheers

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Prefer the top one make

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

As Rob has said the backing has got wet, but it could have been removed while fitting… looks like the sign fitter he used couldn’t be ass-ed to..

Its looks like the black has been put on last?? all cut in reverse, Is it silver or etched??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Electrifying….. imagine if he was also flatulent?? (hot)

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Me too Rob

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I wonder what happens, about money and keys etc, when you go the the twist roller coaster in Chessington or Thorpe park, they have a safty net up; you should see all the things that have fallen out, money, keys, sweets all sorts.. not too bad if you only 4m above ground, but could you imagine the damage it could do 90 stories up????
Must say i love these fast roller coasters.. hoping to get up too black pool to the Pepsi big one…

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

But who is Fred???
I don’t mind competition or people charging less. What I don’t like is people churning out crap. The customer doesn’t know the difference in materials used or a good finish until they get the job. 9 times out of 10 the customer only looks at the price, this means that I have to drop my price to compete.
Some of the signs in my area, I’d be ashamed to put my name to.
Cheap rubbish.
But then again maybe I should start being a “Fred”

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

That’s true Peter, no one would like to pay £15 per metre ( i remember when i did) but if that was the price you would have to pay it..

I’ve been doing signs for twenty years, from the biggest sign company in England/ Europe, to the small two man outfit. I’ve designed and worked on massive projects, pretamanger, fords, Bp, Kwik Fit, Threshers, and many many more, but i would still ask peoples advice (and have done) on here, new products are coming out all the time.. people have different methods of making and fixing sign, some can be very useful, some not but you don’t know.

As for quality, well some of the rubbish I’ve seen around where i live is beyond belief, but what can you do. do you start lowering your price and turning out poor quality signs, or do you lower your prices and earn far less, coz you do a quality job? Thing with me i would never let any of my work go out the door with any bubbles creases or grit under the vinyl, i would redo it. Yet i’ve worked with people that have knocked signs out in half the time but the quality was very very poor my 9 year old could do better, but they are still in business how can you compete??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Well put Fozzie..!! Thats what i feel as well..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

quote :

I am talking about the people who do it for a second income almost like a hobby so they are not to bothered what work they get but they are always going to be able to offer a cheaper price.

Thats the problem, which brings us on to the other thread that is running, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by helping, this type of signmaker??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I can’t see what the problem is??? This is a prime example of how other signmakers under sell themselves, is the price too height??? the answer is no, it was still cheaper then the others companies prices, whether you have 2 staff or 2 hundred, should make no difference, if a firm with 50 staff and a big factory unit charge £1000 for a 3000mm X 500mm panatrim frame and panel, why should you only charge £500 coz you have two staff? the only differences is you earn less profit.. Don’t forget these big companies also get big discounts from suppliers and if there were only big sign firms around that is the price people would have to pay.
Which is the true price £500 or £1000?? its still the same sign…
This is why we have signmakers doing vans for £60, instead of £200.

I have sign fitters who charge me around £100 to fit a sign, so why when i fit the sign should i not charge or only charge £50?

I have found prices going down and down, most of the signs are cheap foam and vinyl screwed directly to the wall…. most signmakers say they charge around £25 per hour but its more like £5 in most cases from what I’ve seen.

A labourer digging holes or mixing cement gets £150 a day, not exactly skilled work.

You get people saying, i designed, cut, weeded and applied van graphics in 3 hours, when really it properly took nearer 6-7 hours, when i worked for a firm we had to fill in time sheets, and when you tallyed up the time it took to do a job it was a very different picture than you thought.

[Simon Clayton]

You could try big head fixings (think that’s what their called) bond them to the back and fix the panel as southernandy has said, will look like its floating and the grip fill or silicon will allow the panel to expand and con tract with out any warping etc

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Works for me.. looks great

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Looks good to me, but your name needs to be bigger as said… Think you may need the same text on the side as on back.. it don’t shout out signmaker on the side ??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Sorry, i thought it was just me…I’ve not got a clue what it is????

[Simon Clayton]

Thats what i was going to say Iain

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I make up foamex signs the same way as perspex, if as Big G said going in a frame; hand held router with side guide, rebate, fish plate on back, hanging strips and locking bars, that way you won’t end up with gaping or bulging panels

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

The signs look really nice, what are they made from?
Its a shame they have all them white wires hanging all over.. Spoils the overall look.

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Love the top design great work, as for the kerning, I would say its not the RW but the AR need a little more space, when i was taught about spacing it was to take a line through the centre of the wording and arrange the spacing that way, if you open up between the RW it would look too large a gap??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Happy birthday mate.. :dance4: I’ll bet there be a few drinks later

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

To be honest, i think they are over priced, and when i looked, they were not that well made, flimsy metal, a tool to do all instead of one tool for each job.

If i were starting up in a unit i would go for separate tools, saw bench router & table etc..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Fantasic stuff, love the design

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I got rid of all my junk faxes by changing my number to an 0871 number, it cost them 5p per sheet to send a fax to me :lol1:

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Still not got mine 😥 .. funny thing is i live within walking distance of their offices 😀 .. Thats the post office for ya

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Maybe this will help?? needs a bit of a clean

Simon

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Attachments:

plasterer.ai

[Simon Clayton]

I got that as well John.. I believe they were part of the management team who left Universals and set up on thier own, (not 100% sure)
I had a letter from universal a while back saying they were taking them to court to stop them using universals client lists..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I used to have a Vauxhall Sintra V6 8 seater, It was fine on a long run but about town that car could drink petrol…Good thing with it could beat most cars from the lights and i managed to get it up to 130mph.. 😮

Got a six seater diesel van now 🙂

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Thumbs up from me.. very nice

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Whats one of them then Marcella?? contact mag 😮

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

quote :

If you wanna make a big thing on the misquoted size then fair enough

It was mean’t to be light hearted mate??????

I would say its would be a big thing if you made it to that size, don’t you??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Nice work mate… I’d say you were too cheap, there woth atleast a oner

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Glad some of you guys ain’t doing the job, the box would have been a few feet short when fitted….lol 😉

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

An off cut is the bit you put in the bin…isn’t it??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I’m with you Big G, thats the way i charge..
The things we do are normally one offs, how many other places could you buy a one off hand made item, cheap??

Look at plumbers, i had a blocked drain, they wanted £70.00 callout and the £70.00 per half hour plus VAT, with a miniumium hour charge.

Garages, took my car in £55 per hour labour charge, based on what they think it may take.. say 3 hours by the book but in fact take 45mins.

Yet as general signmakers, we do designs,chase people on the phone, hand make things and often fit the signs, for £10 an hour.. were not like the plumbers who’s only outlay is a van and phone, we have shops, units or workspaces at home, gas, electric, broadband, phone and fax line to pay for..

I was told by someone that were he lives, Tescos have built houses to home all their polish workers, They get less money but have free accomadation while working for Tescos. If stuff like this carries on we will all be priced out of work, coz its impossible to compete.

Someone say from Turkey is used to living with 10 or 15 other faimily members in one house, they come over, rent one house, do jobs of say £5 per hour X 15 = £75 per hour their costs are all shared for electric rent tc… So they can afford to live quite well, yet the average faimily only has 4 people living there, so when you look at it that way you can then see the advantages for them..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Yep me too, have done for about 12 years, the kids came along, my wife has a good job so i look after both boy from birth till now.. ones 9 the other coming up 3..

Must admit its hard work, but we did sit down and work out all the pros and con, cost of child care etc.

Funny thing is i’m running part time or thereabouts , yet earning about the same as being employed, However if you add on the savings of child care travel, food and all that lot i’m on about double…

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Steve is it not that your area code is 01539 then you have an inner and outer code 6 or 5 like london code is 020 then you have inner london 7 and outer 8
so an inner london number is 020 7222 0055 and 020 8222 0055 for outer, if im in a 020 london area i can dial 7222 0055 and not 020 7222 0055, but a lot of people down here put 0208 222 0055…..

Scrub all the above 😳 just re-read you post Steve yep thats what happens down here

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I do my numbers as 01825 763198 , main reason its easier to remember.

First part area code 01825 which most would know in your area , my area being 01372, or 020

then 763 198 its easier to read 3 numbers and write them down then look again and write down the next 3, instead of trying to remember 6 and write down in one go??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I was looking for a similar colour Vivid, i looked every where ended up getting adigi print block of the colour

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Me too.. I can get quite uptight about nowt… so i’ve been told 😀

[Simon Clayton]

Your not an aries by any chance Marcella.. 😀

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

That’s what I’ve been doing also Dave, and if they still insist on pantone colours they will have to pay a height premium

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

oracal 751-067 blue is not a bad match to 2955, but the pink red will be hard to find, maybe get someone to flood coat, in either digi or silkscreen

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Depends on how much vinyl you need.. some companies will pantone match vinyl but to make it cost effective you’ll proberly need to order something like 500m.
But it may be far less, not sure as i’ve never asked

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I would say something similar TBH

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I was up in Great Yarmouth the other month, and there were some cracking signs, by the looks all done by the same sign shop, some really outstanding stuff… But didn’t get any pics
Simon

[Simon Clayton]

nice looking job mate

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Definitely get written consent from the customer, stating he needs planning which you have informed him of the fact and you cannot be held resposible for any action taken by a third party…

I know someone who had explained this to a customer, the customer said go ahead fit it without planning, but the sign guy didn’t get a disclaimer signed, the council said take it down, the customer then refused to pay until he took it down, which he did, then the customer wouldn’t pay coz he said he hadn’t been informed about planning restrictions, it all went to court and that sign guy lost.. So be careful and keep the signed disclaimer safe for a good number of years

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Well done Guys & Girls… 😥 I’ve never had one

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I left school, and was going to join the Marines, got through all the first part of the selection process and was waiting for a placement for the next part training at Lymington, anyway my mum said i needed to get a job while i was waiting, A job came up in a local sign firm, i applied got the full time job, which i was going to jack in when i heard from the marines, they took quite a while getting back to me and in the mean time i had got used to the money and ending up saying in the sign trade, which i have doning for twenty years..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Yee Ha cowboy.. 😉
I agree with both John & Brian there.. If i had a printer/cutter, and some one came in with a thumb nail image and wanted it enlarged to 2m square, i would do the same as John, and if they still wanted it, i would do it for say £50. However if they had come in and said Bob down the road can do it for £50 can you do it cheaper i would say no, i can do it for £55, Wpuld it be woth saving £5 to go back to Bobs so i would make an extra £5…

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I’ve had them trying It with me.. its a load of crap, my council is listed, but i know for a fact that they use another company to out source all there work, from printers to tarmacers

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Trouble is, a lot of people don’t bring in camera ready artwork, so when you say it £25 for the print and £100 to do the artwork, they say just enlarge it.. That’s properly what happen to that banner

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

So material can have colour on colour, and some not, check with spandex if it is possible to do

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I quite often get them ringing my mobile..I just play along with them, getting them to hold while i find the person..hopefully it will cost them a fortune in phone charges and they will delete me off their system.

Fax spam, my old company would shut up at 5.00pm and by 8am the whole roll of fax paper would be gone, all spam.
I had a few but changed my fax to an e-mail fax service that cost the sender 5p per sheet, so that stopped that..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Missed that post Peter.. Good demol

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

not really mate.. good stuff to use

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Good point that John, i once say a sign fitter, with a brand new shogun lwb
and all he had was a large box trailer, very well kitted out inside. i thought it was a good idea at the time too

You just need the space to store it?

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

You could print onto clear??, and if you contour cut the image it should not notice that much..
What i would do, is get a bit of black, and do a small test print on clear and see what it looks like, maybe shoew the customer??

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😉

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

That’s what i do Mark, lay down the text first, then each shadow..
But depends on the Shadow, you can lay the Shadow first and then each letter….

I make up the Shadow as follows, Copy Letter and move into postion to form drop Shadow, weld together, to create one big Shadow then apply the letters on top, that way when the vinyl shrinks you won’t have any gaps between the letter and Shadow or with ridges (which i hate)..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Just cover it all in black vinyl first, then apply the small section of digi print

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Well yep it a Vauxhall Vivaro, difficult one… I don’t use it that much at the mo (only done 2500 miles since march) as most of my signs are fitted but a subcontractor, so no not really, but have had loads of people looking at it, (think it’s the van, then again it could be me :wink:)
But i do think its a good idea, as most of my stuff is local, the more i drive around town the more people will see it, and hopefully stick in there minds for when they do need a sign.. I think a sign writen van is a good advert, and will be seen by hundreds of people each day..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Very nice 😀

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

i’ve got a small van but big roof rack, so can put 2m X3.4m on the roof..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I make sure the design is within square or oblong, cut out the whole thing including backing, apply first part of vinyl design, leaving the application tape on, this then becomes the reference point to place the next vinyl, position the next square, masking tape in place(hinge method) flap back remove the application tape from the first vinyl and start again…hope that makes sense

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Take the sign to him, and say “well it’s no good to me, I’m going to chuck it in the bin, you can have it if you want..”

leave it a few days and i can guarantee, it will be up on his wall, then take a picture or two of it on his wall, and demand the full money or you’ll take him to court, he will argue that you said he could have it, you say “Did i?? i don’t remember that….”

Or saw it in half, and say “is that small enough”

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Hi Glenn

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Just me, but i’d leave the shaddow as it give it the floating feel, if its gone it will just look flat to the side.. Also i like the contact details on the doors..

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Looks great, would also change the flat one

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Take a photo of carbon fibre and use it as a mask for the letters.
Not exactly sure how its done, but its possible, someone on here with photoshop or the like would be able to help

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

That makes sense, that Shane, we used to have two big water spray booths, which got cleaned out about once every six months..
There would be a good 3-4 inch’s of paint sludge at the bottom and about 1/2 inch in the extractor fan part, That’s from one firm in 6 months, and we weren’t doing as much as some… makes you think???

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I must be getting slow in me old age, i thought whats coffee beans got to do with the price of fish… then relised it was find the coffee man.. 😳

Shane, just need some to remove them all.

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

I alway thought it would be a good idea to have a really expensive car and wrap it in an image of a smashed up one?
Or remove the doors and panels take a pic and wrap the car in that

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

A friend of mine, had a zooped up Escort cozy, He passed a police car doing 140, but the traffic car couldn’t catch him, and he ducked off at the nearest exit….. Kids 🙄

Simon

[Simon Clayton]

Thumbs up mate.. great work

Simon