[Simon Worrall]

Sorry posted twice and I cant delete it!

[Simon Worrall]

My rule of thumb for estimating is $180nz per square meter per colour. Thats about 90 of your earth pounds.
Minimum is one square.
Plus artwork time.

[Simon Worrall]

Dibond
Ruler.
Stanley or similar knife.
4 passes.
Snap off over edge of table.
Plane rough edge with hand plane.
Lovely clean edges.

[Simon Worrall]

With all the current fuss about single use plastics you would be doing yourself a disservice to add plastic wallets to your packing. Customers are getting sensitive and notice this kind of thing.
Self adhesive paper labels are perfectly professional.

[Simon Worrall]

Jayden
Looking at your photo, the corners of the H next to the O are not perfect at all – unless it is just very blurred I would say
your blade offset is way off.

[Simon Worrall]

You could PAINT them with a brush. Thats as green as it gets. I do that as much as possible

[Simon Worrall]

We use a teflon squeegee. Low friction, maximum pressure.
Still get a few raised bubbles here and there in the laminate, specially when doing the job on my own, but I dont really worry too much about them any more.

[Simon Worrall]

Came off easy. Single screw in the back of the door, handle splits in two pieces.
This seems pretty standard nowadays.
Simon

[Simon Worrall]

LOL I thought for a horrible moment you had lost your touch Chris! But once again you came through! :claps:

[Simon Worrall]

Thanks Myles. Ill give that a run tomorrow (its night time here in NZ) and see if I can spot any difference!

[Simon Worrall]

The bits with the rounded tips (5) are for carving.
A Kevin says, watch your RPM and feed. It looks like some of the bits have overheated.
Slower RPM and/or faster feed will help.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Jamie Wood:

Maybe there’s something in the paint that prevents things from sticking.

Im coming across this problem more and more, I heard they are putting additives in the paint to stop dirt from sticking to it. It also affects adhesion of glue, unfortunately.
In Daniel’s case the paint is not properly bonded to the under surface, so it’s doubly problematic.
I would say your only real hope is to screw them in somehow, whether that means using standoffs or just putting some screws right through the letters into the fascia.

[Simon Worrall]

I wouldn’t wait til Monday to go and check it out. I’d be down there straight away.

[Simon Worrall]

I have always been taken by how ugly and cheap most of the signage in the USA is.
With the odd notable exception, the whole commercial environment in the united states is depressing.

[Simon Worrall]

We always run a few mm of 3M primer all round the edge of the car window when using contravision
We have never had a problem of peeling back.

[Simon Worrall]

I have noticed that whether the glue stays with the vinyl or stays on the car seems to depend on the exact temperature it is at when it is actually being peeled off.
Each make is different, as well as the time since it was applied, and a few other factors, so there is no point giving a definitive guide to how much heat to use. And there are only a few degrees between perfect removal and messy removal.
As you go you can experiment to see what works with that particular removal, and adjust the heat gun to match.

[Simon Worrall]

The O is wrong. It is too heavy and doesnt belong.
The rest of it is okay.
It looks like a common font thats been outlined and modified.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Neil Danley:

quote Jon Marshall:

Kumclean!?

**sniggers**

Oh grow up! :shake:

[Simon Worrall]

I have been trialling a paintbrush cleaner that can also soften old crusty vinyl quite quickly. If you can set it up to soak for ten minutes, maybe spray it on and put a plastic sheet over the top to prevent evaporation and runoff, it seems to get everything soft enough to scrape easily.
Perhaps it is available in the uk? Here is the NZ link.
mitre10.co.nz

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[Simon Worrall]

Here’s the process:
$this->BBvideo_pass(‘$8’, ‘$4’, ‘$7’)

[Simon Worrall]

Sorry not familiar with MDX so I couldn’t say.
I have used ij180 digital wrap film as an air release base for 3M 7725, and it works a treat.

[Simon Worrall]

I had an inflatable tent for doing vehicles for a while.
It seemed like a good idea, but it turned out to be the biggest pain in the ass ever.
And the material weighs a ton.

[Simon Worrall]

quote David Hammond:

I’d be tempted to take the hit on the cost of the 3m, rather than struggle working with 751.

Couldnt agree more David. Most of the cost of a colour wrap is the time taken to apply it.
751 is good cast film, but I would sooner laminate it onto an air release base first and then wrap that if your struggling to match the colour..
Anyway, good luck with it. Keep us posted on how you get on. :smiles:

[Simon Worrall]

I went away for a few weeks some years back and somehow the backup power was turned off in my SP540.
the heads were completely blocked.
After a soak they came up perfect. I cant remember exactly how I did the soak, but I remember it was quite easy to do.
So have a little faith bud!

[Simon Worrall]

The Transporter looks mint.
How do you wrap that clear vinyl onto a van? Is it air release? or do you apply it wet?

[Simon Worrall]

I dont get why the UK does it this way.
It seems so – complicated.

Here in NZ you go to the dump.
Drive onto a weigh scale.
They weigh you, your car, everything inside it.
Then they weigh you out.
Subtract the two numbers. Thats what you pay for.
Commercial, domestic, makes no difference.

[Simon Worrall]

Thanks all for your replies. Much to think about.

[Simon Worrall]

1. Dont trust the ACM to be cut off exactly square at the factory.

[Simon Worrall]

Chloroform. Melts the locator into the letter.
Just dont breathe it in!

[Simon Worrall]

I always laminate them. When I drop them off at the stitcher to get stitched and eyeletted they are dragged across a table with all sorts of debris on it, and they end up with large scratches across the print.
They are also folded up and thrown in the back of a car to get taken around to shows.
I dont do it free of charge, so whats to lose?

[Simon Worrall]

Try 3M stoneguard.

[Simon Worrall]

I am afraid the SP540V is famous for inaccurate cutting, and has featured on many such threads here.
I have one, and after years of trial and error, and many ruined projects, I now have a seperate plotter that can read registration marks and cuts spot on every time.

[Simon Worrall]

What a great bunch of very cool vehicle designs Kevin!
Ide be proud of any of those!

[Simon Worrall]

If you print it leave a cm of white all round.
It wont be seen, and it wont curl at the edges.

[Simon Worrall]

To look like gold it has to be actual gold.
Everything else is fake.
I havent used it, but from the literature I believe SignGold is actual gold leaf mounted on vinyl somehow.

[Simon Worrall]

+1 here for the rollepro

[Simon Worrall]

3M makes app tapes with different tack strengths for exactly this purpose

[Simon Worrall]

First class job Martyn.

In my opinion wraps are done much too cheaply.
Considering the huge levels of skill required to accomplish, and the very long hours it takes to get it right.
I seem to spend about twice as long as I have quoted for on a wrap.
I dont think I am particularly slow, although there are people on these boards who are much better and faster than me.

And there is so much to go wrong, not only during the wrap but in the weeks and months following delivery, when the mistakes you might have made begin to show up as fails, and have to be replaced.

[Simon Worrall]

At those temperatures you dont need any abrasion from moving snow.
The calendered vinyl shrinks a LOT and curls up at the edges.
The cheap glue freezes and loses its stick.

[Simon Worrall]

Sure we get snow here in the south island, Pane.
I have never had a fail due to the material.
I used to use Oracal 751 all the time, which is excellent but now I use 3M exclusively (unless a colour is not available)
Although more expensive, customers have heard of 3M and I find if I offer them the choice they will always choose 3M, and happily pay the extra.
Nobody, except a signmaker knows of Metamark.
And M7 is a calendered vinyl, not a cast vinyl. I wouldnt use it on a car.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Pane Talev:

quote Simon Worrall:

I would only use cast vinyl for the temperature extremes a car has to go through.

Every car I do here in Switzerland will thick that box hence me looking for a solution.

1) Winter lots of snow – plus vehicles go up in the mountains/ ski resorts / closer to the sun
2) Summer – the same

Charge a bit more and use 3M 180mc. That is all I ever use now. It is air release and never lets you down.

[Simon Worrall]

I would only use cast vinyl for the temperature extremes a car has to go through.

[Simon Worrall]

751 is one of the best vinyls you can get for the price imho.

[Simon Worrall]

I did my neon glass bending course at PJ Mason and co, in Chatham, Kent back in the 1980s.
At the time they were probably the biggest and best known stockists of Glass, powders, transformers, and all other things neon, possibly in all the world.
I am not sure if they even still exist, but you could start by looking them up.

[Simon Worrall]

We cnc cut 25mm signex (foamex), prime the edges with 3m primer, and wrap them. Works a treat.

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[Simon Worrall]

By far the best vinyl I have found for weeding tiny letters is 3M 7725 cast.
This comes on a clear liner to which it sticks harder than the paper liners of lesser films, so the letters are reluctant to lift when weeding.

[Simon Worrall]

Cant remember weight, sorry. I just got the strongest and thinnest available, when I got it about 10 years ago. I would check but I am at home now.

[Simon Worrall]

I use fishing line to get these off. Tuck the fishing line behind the badge, and cut through the VHB tape with a sawing action.

[Simon Worrall]

Thanks for all your advice.
George, I appreciate your explanation of the "correct" service sticker making process.
The fact is that these stickers are not doing what they are supposed to, which is why the customer is asking for an alternative.
They are washing off in the elements, and they are fading in a very short time.
I would be surprised if an unlaminated vinyl sticker, as described by others on this thread, didnt last longer than this.

[Simon Worrall]

I find it is easier to discount from a high initial number than try to upsell from a low one.

[Simon Worrall]

Quality work there Rogers.

[Simon Worrall]

Oracal removable vinyl

[Simon Worrall]

Heres how I do it:
1. Roughen the back of the acrylic letters –
2. cut out a stencil from Oracal 810 and apply to the substrate
Smear SIROFLEX adhesive all over where the letters are to go. You can use a teflon squeegee, and use the thickness of the stencil as a "guide" for the thickness of the adhesive that is laid down.
Press the letters into the spaces. Leave overnight.
When you come back, pull the stencil away, and if you have done it right there wont be any glue visible.

You can also use VHB tape, but the individual pieces show when you look down the side of the letters.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Steff Davison:

On a lighter note….. 28 days to xmas. :smiles:

Lighter? That’s 28 more days to go into debt!

[Simon Worrall]

I agree, all contact information is best on the back.
As for the sides, less is more.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Phill Fenton:

I agree – The margin spaces are all wrong – worst layout I have seen in years.
But worse still – does this mean they’re no longer doing Karaoke anymore :puppyeyes:

LOL!

[Simon Worrall]

quote David Stevenson:

Just thinking out loud here but do you think a couple of halogen heater would do your job? We do graphics for a local garage, they essentially write a book on the side of the vehicles which I get the pleasure of removing. Recently I’ve started heating a section with a heat gun and using another on a tripod to heat the next section to be picked. Works great and considering getting a couple of those heater to see if they’d do to heat a wider area then the heat gun?

I use a halogen heater exactly like this and it works really well.
But removing vinyl is best done in bright sunshine (where available!) with the side of the car you are working on facing the sun.

[Simon Worrall]

Perhaps it uses really accurate GPS!

[Simon Worrall]

quote James Sahota:

Check the make up of the black colour in your design file.

I’ve seen this before once when a client had set the Black to 100% on all CMYK channels.

Black was laid down heavy and ink started to run

Spot on James. It is called Registration colour.
100% coverage on all four channels.

[Simon Worrall]

quote Peter Johnson:

For vehicle panels;
1. Depending how dirty to start with, soapy water.
2. De-greaser/panel wipe.
3. Clay bar
4. IPA

For any board mounted graphics, as above minus clay bar.

For glass/windows, same again but substitute panel wipe with a vinegar based window cleaner and minus clay bar.

Pardon my ignorance Peter, but what is "Clay bar"?

[Simon Worrall]

From their point of view we could just be a scammer that is pretending to be a signwriter!

[Simon Worrall]

And that’s why we have insurance.

[Simon Worrall]

1. First clean with water and washing up liquid to get the water based dirt. Throw the rags away after.
2. Second clean with Prepsol (tar and grease remover) That takes care of the wax. Chuck the rags away after.
3. Final clean with Isopropyl alcohol using microfibre cloths, just before application of vinyl.
Simon

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[Simon Worrall]

They need to own this and do it to all their planes.
Think of the free publicity they have got already!

[Simon Worrall]

A sad loss to us all Ewan.
Simon.

[Simon Worrall]

A sad loss to us all Ewan.
Simon.

[Simon Worrall]

Nice job, but upon reading the description, I wonder why this is a "Signage solution" and not simply a "Sign".

[Simon Worrall]

I think you’ll find Ewan is selling an elderly graphtec on this very board at this very moment!
I would jump at the chance.
Your welcome.
Simon.

[Simon Worrall]

We store everything in bags.
We purchase extra-thick 300mm wide polythene tubing by the roll, which we cut to length and seal the end with a bag sealer.
It is all kept under the worktables:
Digital vinyl is stored horizontally on a rack.
Cutting vinyl can be stacked horizontally on a shelf.
The shelf itself is made from corrugated iron, which stops the vinyl rolling sideways.
The polythene tubing keeps it from being scuffed.
Digital vinyl is handled with gloves.

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[Simon Worrall]

James
It occurs to me that if you are inundated with this kind of work, why not turn down the cheap ones with low budgets and go for the more generous ones?
It takes time and effort to reduce the cost of a job, as you are trying to do here.
Fair enough if you are scratching for work, but it sounds like you are flush.
This is all to the customer’s gain, and you lose.

[Simon Worrall]

They might mean Easy Apply, which is a 50 micron Avery vinyl

https://www.jenrite.co.nz/products/prin … ite-non-rs

[Simon Worrall]

Laptop – macbook pro 15 inch.

It is robust, fast, lightweight.
and the trackpad has become second nature.
and you can run windows on it, with all the windows applications.

I am not a mac fanboy…I only use PCs at work.
But their laptops cant be beat.

[Simon Worrall]

That’s it David!
Thank you so much.

Simon.

[Simon Worrall]

I would get an engineer to sign off on big stuff like that.
Just for peace of mind.

[Simon Worrall]

Sorry my bad. 1080 it is.

[Simon Worrall]

3M Di-noc carbon fibre is the best.
I wrapped a Can-Am spyder in that. No complaints.

[Simon Worrall]

Trial and error mostly! :smiles:

[Simon Worrall]

I was wondering if anybody actually worked from the actual ground level.
The reason I say that is that whenever we make up a visual of a vehicle for a customer, the logo/writing is level on screen, even when the vehicle leans forward, but it always seems to look correct.
However as soon as the car arrives we all start tweaking it to be level with the sill, or some other arbitrary part of the car, and it ends up different from the visual that the customer approved.

[Simon Worrall]

David I would have thought one of those super high – tack vinyls for wrapping concrete walls would work on this surface. I believe Arlon has one.

[Simon Worrall]

Doesnt seem too complicated, according to this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNH5r_I … BeeCreates

[Simon Worrall]

0.Make a rectangle into your graphics program measuring 1811 mm by 600mm
1. Remove the fill, give it a stroke.
2. Import your photo.
3. Place it BEHIND your rectangle.
4. Envelope distort the photograph to make the corners of the building line up with the corners of the rectangle. This might take a few trials to get it just right.
5. You will now have an undistorted photograph of a building that is 1811 x 600 and everything in it will be in the right place.
6.Now drop in your lettering
7. Scale the lettering up or down so it looks right to the customer.
8. Outline the text, and keep it selected.
9. Look in the TRANSFORM pallette. It will have the WxH of your lettering to within a few mm.

[Simon Worrall]

The clear has shrunk, taking some of the ink with it.
And water’s got in between vinyl and laminate
A cheap job turns expensive.

[Simon Worrall]

quote David Hammond:

What I would be doing, is looking at how you got in the position in the first place, did you not take a deposit?

:yikes: :smiles: :rollseyes: :shake: :blushing: :bangshead: :claps:

[Simon Worrall]

Hi Hugh
Did you use the overlap method or did you splice the joins?
What is the result over time?
The customer really wants it spliced…

[Simon Worrall]

quote David Gwyndaf Povah:

we overlap the joints and splice as you would with wallpaper for seemless join never had any issues with shrinking

Is that where you cut through both layers and pull out the extra bits?

[Simon Worrall]

Your camera only has a digital zoom.
That is not the same thing as a long focus lens
You need something more like a wildlife photographer has.

[Simon Worrall]

Go really far away with a really long lens
That will minimise any distortion from the lens.

[Simon Worrall]

We use 3mm MDF.
It is cheap, and is still usable after quite a few cuts.
Then we turn it over and use the other side.
You can pull a decent vacuum through it, and it keeps holding the work in place even after you have made lots of cuts.
I take your point about H and S though, we have been looking for an alternative.
I set up my toolpaths to cut only .3mm into it so it keeps the MDF dust to a minimum.
Let us know if you find anything else that works.

[Simon Worrall]

This is how we do it. Just using water. Works well.

$this->BBvideo_pass(‘$8’, ‘$4’, ‘$7’)

[Simon Worrall]

quote Denise Goodfellow:

What ever you do, make him sign a disclaimer freeing you of all responsibity

I can picture the lawsuits… :shocked:

[Simon Worrall]

I wont be using R-Tape in a hurry. :shocked:
This should not happen.
Ide be writing a strongly worded letter, with an invoice for your time, to R-Tape.

Lol.

[Simon Worrall]

Weve done it.
It sticks okay..at least the cork we used stuck okay.
There are different finishes available of course.
We used a bit of 3M adhesive promoter on the edges, and used printed and laminated 3M wrap vinyl.
It was only for a temporary exhibition, I dont know how long it would last in the real world.

[Simon Worrall]

Non-reflective glass (or glass coating) is available in the picture framing market, but it loses clarity the further away it is from your artwork or object, which basically means that it wont work for you, Myles

[Simon Worrall]

We do solvent.
As others have said
It should be fine on Latex.
try a bit on a scrap piece of canvas before comitting.
Laminate it BEFORE stretching.
The clear will protect your print from the stretching process.

[Simon Worrall]

Its best to apply it with a paint pad which keeps the bubbles to a minimum.

[Simon Worrall]

We use a good quality clear acrylic paint (water based)
it dries in about an hour

[Simon Worrall]

Cut off a small piece and stick it to his window temporarily to try it out
(It should be fine.)

[Simon Worrall]

quote Stafford Cox:

It’s because RIP’s try to produce grays from 4 colours by default. See if the RIP has an option for Mono Print or similar, or maybe even try switch off the colour management altogether. Although this might cause a latex to over ink (it does on ours anyway).

What is colour management and how do you switch it off?
Is that something to do with "density Control Only" in Versaworks?

[Simon Worrall]

quote Hugh Potter:

quote Jon Marshall:

More likely the rest of the paint has faded and the bit under where the vinyl was is still fresh…It should polish up ok

!

I think this falls into the "obvious" category, and not at all your problem.
Once you explain it to him.

[Simon Worrall]

TBH if sharing is the only way out of the shed and into some decent premises then I’d take it..
But make sure the tees are crossed…