[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Guys

We tried exporting as an EPS file and that’s solved the problem

[Neil Churchman]

We had a large quantity of flourescent tubes to dispose of recently and found our local City Electrical trade supplier has a recycling box for tubes at a cost of 12p each – maybe they take neon tubes too

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Alan and Iain,

That makes sense then, as we have a similar situiation with our accounts software, as you pay a premium for the 3 licence version.

Just wondered if there was an additional feature that we’d overlooked

cheers guys 😀

[Neil Churchman]

would it be possible to draw round the lettering onto the texture black surface, and then hand paint in solvent based gloss black for quick drying gloss finish to inprove reflective propoerties of black surface ?

[Neil Churchman]

These guys are good

http://www.floreeda.com/

[Neil Churchman]

I agree with David – replace all tubes and starters(if it has any)

You’ll need the length of tube and the diameter of the tube, and I think these are also sized as T8, T5 ect subject to diameter

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks to Sam and Gareth from Applelec, and also to Adrian

All really helpful and detailed information, and from the help you’ve all given, I’m certain that there’s been a break in the cable insullation around the cable entry point. I’m confident to go back to site now to resolve the problem.

Thanks for everyone’s input and reading the post

What we do without this valubale resource of the ukboards 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for your replies.

I’m doing some research and I’m being told that it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that just because it’s a 12 volt lighting system that you can use any low voltage cable.

LED signage installers beware !

I’m wondering if the red and black cable that this sign has been wired with is not thick enough to take the electrical current and maybe the first run of power to the lights should be through 2.5amp flex.
Any opinions on this would be welcome.

---

Attachments:

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your input.
The pwoer supply is 100 watt and the wiring is suitable for 12 volt so that’s not a problem.

I’m concerned that the fault may be because the wiring is passing through the aluminium skin on the ACM sheet

Has any one else had an issue with wiring through metal sheet before ?

[Neil Churchman]

The LED modules are around four years old, although in my experiance, it’s usuallly an individual LED modules that would fail rather than the whole lot of them, and I’m more concerend though about the heat marks where the 12 volt LED leads have passed through the aluminum composite board – here’s a photo to show the problem

---

Attachments:

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Ewan,

Can’t comment on Rolands but I can say that I’ve been running a Graphtec for 6 years now and so far not had any trouble with this plotter at all. It’s a solidly build machine producing high quality work.

[Neil Churchman]

So one print head means there’s less chance of banding and mis-aliegnment, as there’s only one printer head

Thanks for the explanations and opinions

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for your comments.

I was thinking about the ink cartridges for the ValueJet 1204, which I think are 220ml each – if they would need changing or topping up during an ink run, as that doesn’t seem like they hold much ink, and not sure what happens if they start to run out if the machine has been left running overnight.

Also, is it fairly easy to get replacement cartridges for these machines, as our vinyl supplier that seems to sell just about everything for digital media, doesn’t stock the spare ink for any machines.

Been reading up on the wave technology and it says that the printers that work like this,only have one print head, and this is what helps to eliminate the banding.

Do you find it easy to keep print heads clean, and does the machine need to be run everyday to keep the heads clean and operational?

[Neil Churchman]

Just a quick follow up to this thread…………

We substituted the 40w driver for a 30w driver and tested it for 1/2 hour to check it was ok and that it didn’t get too over heated, and all seemed fine.

Two weeks later we were called back to the job to find that the unit had failed, and I can only assume that the supply had overheated by the black mark on the back on the transformer.

Next time this happens, I shall go for the slightly more expensive driver that can handle the power, and also I probably could have mounted it on a metal back plate with spacers to allow for better cooling of the component.

Hope this helps someone else out with the same problem in the future

[Neil Churchman]

thanks for your help chaps

I’ll remember to take my multi meter with me next time

cheers

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

thanks for trying guys

I managed to get another copy of the customer which opens

😀

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for trying Gary

So far we’ve tried Corel, Omega, Flexi and Photoshop ! 😕

[Neil Churchman]

thanks for all your help with font names

as suggested, think we’ll just have to adjust something that’s a close match, as this letter style seems a bit a rouge!

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks guys

we try your suggestions out and see if there’s a good match

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for the pointers guys

[Neil Churchman]

Not sure if were talking about the same thing here, but I took the very simple health and safety multiple choice test in August last year, and got the CSCS card which allows the holder to work on building sites for one year, after that the card expires and you can’t get a new one. The only way forward is to take another qualification, like an NVQ 2 or NVQ 3 in signmaking, and that will get you back onto the building sites. There are a number of places around the UK doing the level 2 course and a few doing the level 3 course, and if you meet certain conditions, you may get the course funded by the EU 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Earl,

Took you advice and re-drew it in Corel and it looks perfect!

Never ceases to amaze me how many features there are in Corel, just
wish I had them time to play around and learn them all.

thanks again for everyone’s help

Neil
😀

[Neil Churchman]

Just want to thank all you guys that put yourself out to help us, especially taking the time to make up the dot grid at the right size – cheers

Also, just want to say that all the peeps who use this forum and contribute in a positive way, make it a great resource to us humble sign makers, and it’s good to know that there’s still some decent folks around in these troubled times.

Hope I’ll be able to return the favour one day 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Good ideas Warren, but it’s a modern office and the customers likes the idea of the fading out circles

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Tim

We’re on the phone to them now

cheers

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Gary,

not that were chasing the business, but we’ve made those sorts of signs before, for property companies, if you need a costing

or if you like, we’ll give some pointers if you want to have a go yourself, as I think we owe you a favor

otherwise try ‘Universal’ in the Bristol area

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Mark

I’ll give them a call 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

sorry to slightly change to subject of this post………….but I was wondering who supplies the film that you use in the inkjet printers to make positives

at the moment we get by using an OHP film in A4 sheet size only, it’s ok but I know there’s better out there, just haven’t managed to find the supplier

[Neil Churchman]

Cheers Jamie,

that’s great – thanks very much for setting the lettering for us

very much appreciated

Neil 😀 😀 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Jamie,

thanks for having a look for us, and if you could set the text I’d really appreciate it

I’ve sent you an e-mail with the text that needs doing

cheers

Neil 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Jamie,

we’ve been told by the architect that it’s called ‘TF Forever Two’, nothing about A B C or D, and as you can see in the photo it’s a very light font

there’s about 8 lines of text to set if you do think you have a light font in this style

🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Chris – we’ll have a look to see if we have those fonts and check how close the match is 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

I would not fully tighten up the fixings, and use a screw size that gives plenty of free play in the female part of the fixing, this should give enough free movement should there be any expansion of the cladding panels

[Neil Churchman]

try these guys if it’s perspex fabrication work

http://www.floreeda.com/

[Neil Churchman]

thanks John for the info. although could really do with getting my hands on a copy this morning

here’s a photo of the font to match to if there’s anything that’s close to it, that may be a close enough match

---

Attachments:

[Neil Churchman]

I think you can buy a sheet plastic called ‘styrene’ which can be re-shaped by heat and is available in a translucent white.

Try this company http://www.stephen-webster.co.uk/amari/stephen-webster/

[Neil Churchman]

try ASD Metals – they do aluminium road sign ‘blanks’ and the white/grey 3mm ali sheets – they have branches around the UK

[Neil Churchman]

Also…………bear in mind that there are two versions of white LED’s that we’ve come across
The cool blueish white (which our customer didn’t like) 🙁
and the ‘not so easy to get hold of’ warm white which I think gives a more yellow light and looks closer to flourescent tube light

We’ve bought from Applelec before and have now found a new supplier

Forever Ltd. 07917 273878 (we’ve yet to try them)

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Richard – I think you’ve nailed it for us

😀

[Neil Churchman]

recently noticed that the GEC light tubes have the light output on the packaging

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for your replies guys – still wondering if I will be able to take a customers pdf logo file and directly output it through an edge machine and get the correct colour tints/shades as per the original file. Perhaps I’m expecting too much and this type of digital output must be done with a solvent printer only 🙄

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks guys for taking the trouble to reply – some good explanations there.

So I take it the Edge will not print tints or graduated colour logos, and only does spot colour.

Still sounds like a great piece of kit – hoping to get my hands on one in the not too distant future (and so the screen printing bench becomes redundent 🙁 )

thanks again for the answers

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

When we did our initial inspection of the suspended light box, it was not possible to isolate the power without turning off 1/2 the lights in the department store where we were working, and even if we did, they use the bulbs that need a long re-start period, so that wasn’t a practical option for us.

We returned to complete the job this morning, before the shop was open, and with the power isolated and completely disconnected from the sign, we were still getting shocks off of the metal parts of the acrylic sign box. We checked out the existing earth and added a new earth at the point of power entry, then directly into the steel frame to ensure a good earth.

Even after doing this we still got a shock, so my conclusion is that because the box is 5 sides acrylic with a metal lid, all suspended from the ceiling on steel cables, that the shocks must be from static electricity and not from the main power supply.

I know there’s been comments on this post that only a qualified electrician should be working on this unit, but originally we were asked just to replace tubes in a sign light box and surely as we are all sign-makers/installers offering a service to our customers, are we now legally obligated to turn down what should be a straightforward job?

Surely changing a fluorescent tube is no different to changing a light bulb, except the tubes are within a sign box rather than hanging from the ceiling. Do we all now have to become qualified electricians to carry out our trade?

And if an electrician goes to look at the sign, what will they be able to do about static electricity? Is this still a hazard?

[Neil Churchman]

if you have the capability to screen print in that may be you best option, otherwise you could get it chemically etched or engraved. depending on the complexity of the design and colouring

[Neil Churchman]

We’ve had customers that want an exterior product that lasts, and stands up to fading from UV, and is tamper/Vandal resistant……….ok so far

then comes the phase ‘cheap as possible’ so the whole thing goes out of the window for me then.

in my opinion the customer can’t have both of the above, so we offer them the quality long lasting option and the cheaper option that will look good for a couple of years, and as long as they have a guide to the life expectancy, then they can choose – ‘you get what you pay for’

🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Brian – can’t really picture what you’ve got there

Do you have a photo of the sign box?

[Neil Churchman]

We always apply etch to the back of the glass, or in an office area, the opposite side to where it’s most likely to be seen and walk past.

ie in an internal office corridor with glass office walls, we’d stick it inside the office so it’s less prone too damage by people passing, and then the graphics on the front.

…………..unless the office is full of filing cabinets etc. pushed up hard to the glass wall – then make it easy for yourself and do it on the front/corridor side.

[Neil Churchman]

James, we use a very very light coat of baby oil to improve a dry flat finish on stainless steel, and so far I’ve found that an outside job is good for at least a year, although that’s subject to other factors in the environment where the sign is, and there’s no reason why the finish could last longer than a year. The main concern is that too much baby oil may attract dust, although in my opinion, I’d rather see a fine layer of dust, than the dried flat look of some metal finishes.

[Neil Churchman]

are you using a proper ‘Graphtec’ cable ?

a cable from PC World is likely to make a communication error

[Neil Churchman]

Sounds like the European style street signs?

You may want to try Universal in the Bristol area

[Neil Churchman]

I’d try a very very light coat of baby oil to improve the finish

[Neil Churchman]

I reckon those posts will need to be custom fabricated, although for your local steel engineering/fabrication company it should be a pretty straight forward job, especially if you’ve got something to copy sizes from.

[Neil Churchman]

Don’t know if this is going to be much help, but when we set up our Graphtec plotter drivers from disk, we found that we didn’t need it at all as the software we are running had the right driver anyway – so we’ve never used the driver disk to date.

You may be able to download the software on the Graphtec website?

[Neil Churchman]

you can also buy thicker brass lettering/numbers from Graphex in Gateshead

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Mickey – great images, probably be ideal for a ‘Westside Story’ street scene, but as you say too animated for our local high street!

[Neil Churchman]

Try Universal in the Bristol area

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for your opinions/advice

I’m going to go with charging the hourly rate plus cost of application fees (£95) which seems the fairest way to invoice the customer.

Don’t often do planning applications but for your best customers, it’s an additional service that you can help them out with and if it makes their life easier, then the’re less likely to think about going elsewhere 😀

[Neil Churchman]

If anyone’s interested – apparently you can still buy cellulose spray paint if you sign the suppliers disclaimer to say it’s for use on a classic car (or perhaps a classic sign would also count)

[Neil Churchman]

looks good – if your fixing to a brick chimney it may be worth taking some metal washers to use for extra packing behind the sign, just in case the brickwork is a bit un-even

[Neil Churchman]

Martin,

you may have a branch of Morelli’s near you – they may be able to help you

http://www.morelli.co.uk/

[Neil Churchman]

quote Graeme Harrold:

Bit of light reading on Candela :lol1: :lol1:

Graeme – thanks for posting that link about candela and after taking the hint for some light reading, I feel I’m no longer in the dark about understanding the brilliant qualities of fluorescent tubes 😀

[Neil Churchman]

suppliers have suggested that we ask the fluorescent tubes manufacturers for this information – anyone know the names of tube suppliers?

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Ian – we’ll give it a try 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

We’ve recently bought from this product from Applelec Sign Components
and we were very pleased with the results – bear in mind that the white LED’s can have a slight tint of blue, making them look a bit ‘cold’

[Neil Churchman]

thanks to everyone for the replies – seems there’s quite a few to choose from depending on how much you want to spend.

we normally just use the file to round off the corners, but as some of you pointed out in the responses, this can leave feathered edges and let’s be honest, no one wants to file off 200 corners on 50 signs with a file 🙁

once again this forum has proved to be a gold mine of information and help – well done mods 😀

[Neil Churchman]

did one like it last month and we drilled into the frame to make it look a tidier job – you would need to work a way around the door sensor unit though shown in the photo. don’t forget you will probably want to apply vinyl to the glass to hide the sign from inside too 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

how about these ‘off the shelf’ metal road sign frames?

you can use interchangeable pvc sign panels

http://www.greenham.com/c/pl/82996/Rectangle-Frame-Only

[Neil Churchman]

have you tried Ashbys ?

http://www.ashbytrade.net/home/access.html

[Neil Churchman]

quote Russell-H:

Ouch just got first price back for 3m x 1.2m piece of 6m/m tough glass £313.9 +VAT

Regards

Russell.

That seems expensive – I’d shop around a bit more and see if you can find a glass wholesaler that has an in house toughening plant.

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks again everyone for your help

Chris – getting rid of the foil palette makes sense
thanks for the advice 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks for your help guys 😀

doesn’t sound too technical to change then- we’re give it a try this morning

Neil 😳

[Neil Churchman]

Adrian,

We’ve got the FC -5100 and your welcome to have the pdf manual for that?

Neil

p.s. did you get my message about the car graphics?

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

Dave, I think the narrowest fixing for cut out letters would be M4 metal studs

not sure but I think these are originally from the car body repair trade and I’ve seen the stud welding guns for sale in the Machine Mart book if this helps

otherwise, it would be small brass locator’s available from FK Moore near Broadstairs, Kent I think 🙄

[Neil Churchman]

make sure you use the Graphtec lead that comes with the plotter, or if you need a longer one, get a lead made up by Graphtec UK – shop bought leads don’t work very well if at all 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

I could probably get you a photo at the Paddington address sometime in the next couple of weeks.

let me know if you can wait that long 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

if you post the address of the head office of Orange in the UK, maybe a local sign company would take a photo the signage they are using here and forward it on to you 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Harry,

that’s a great help

cheers

Neil 😀

[Neil Churchman]

well you can charge more if your fitting to a steel beam

use size 6 self tapping screws about 1/2" long and plenty of new jobbing HSS drill bits and some 3in1 oil

set the drill speed to slow and keep the drill tip and hole well lubricated with the oil

lots of short bursts of power on the drill and just drill to a depth just over
1/2" buy wrapping tape around the drill as a marker

if the steel is only 6mm thick, make sure it’s not going to spoil
the job if you drill the whole way through by mistake, and if you do,
touch in with some hammerite after cleaning off the oil to prevent rusting

sure your break a few drill bits while your drilling but you’ve added that to
the additional costs for installing to a problem surface

hope it works out allright

[Neil Churchman]

try applelec sign components

http://www.applelecsign.co.uk/

[Neil Churchman]

how about fixing some rectangular hollow section aluminum to the wall
and then fixing on the panel with double sided foam tape. If the aluminum lengths are long enough, there should be a great enough bonding area
to secure the panel, although I’d still prefer to have some countersunk
screws as well, just in case the panel buckles up when it warms up in the
sun.

[Neil Churchman]

Can’t you use Tee cut or Brasso ?

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Ewan

much appreciated

Neil 😀

[Neil Churchman]

have you tried using a spray can of ‘label remover’ from Maplins

[Neil Churchman]

Rachel,

I think I posted a pdf copy of our FC5100 manual to another member about six months ago – try doing a search for it, if not let me know and I’ll send you a copy when I’m next in the studio

Neil 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

As a die hard screenprinter, I would think screenprinting single colour vehicle stickers would be the cheaper production method, although if you need to consider the vinyl going over ridges in the vehicle’s bodywork, then you would need to screenprint on to clear cast vinyl, which I my opinion would start to make it too expensive and more viable as a digital print job. 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Just thinking about making the corners stronger on these DiBond boxes and remembered when I used to make up aluminium illuminated fascia boxes there were these triangular braces inside used during fabrication.

Anyone know what these braces are called and where to get them, or even
if they think the triangular braces could be rivited to the internal corners of a DiBond box for strength 🙄

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Chris,

sitting down and watching the demo’s is like going back to school 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Peter and Brad

thanks for the glue recommendations – I’ll give a try 😀

[Neil Churchman]

Ian – thanks for the advice on the power tool, at £1000 + vat it’s a bit too pricey for me 😮

Thanks everyone else for your opinions

I think I need to experiment with different glues and router bits,
and find out if 3mm DiBond will be strong enough with some stiffeners 🙂

I’d appreciate it if anyone can recommend a good glue to bond the bends together 🙄

[Neil Churchman]

Hi John,

I’m quite new to using DiBond as I’ve always used aluminium panels,
but I’m fast becoming converted to using this product as I’m so impressed by demonstrations at various sign shows.

It’s seems an easy product to work with and I was really impressed with what one of the other members did with a facia box by folding over and gluing the inside folds. Just not sure how strong this would be if secured between two steel posts.

Not sure what’s the best glue to use on DiBond to sufficiently bond the inside of a fold together and I’ve heard that solvent based glues can create a slight rippled effect to the surface of the DiBond where the glue is applied.

Maybe if there is a suitable glue, then we could make some internal braces for the DiBond box to stiffen the centre of the box and possibly improve the strength of the box where it secures on to the steel posts. 🙂

We’ve also been experimenting with widths and depths of fold lines, and wondered if anyone has any hands on advice for the ideal width of a fold line, as we need to start routing these on the material, rather than running the panel through the saw bench with the blade set very low. 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Steve – yes please, if you could forward the pdf for DiBond specs that would be great. Can you send it as a personal message through this site? 🙄

Peter – I think I saw a mail shot about that – I’ll give Cherwell a ring and maybe they’ll be able to advise

thanks for your input

Neil 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Alex,

thanks again for your advice

I’ll make sure I isolate the supply before doing anything

🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for you help with this

Sounds pretty straight forward now you have explained it 😀

cheers

Neil

[Neil Churchman]

last time I bought a Graphtec blade from Hexis it cost around £25.26 + vat
and we find blades last us at least 6 months, but then we don’t run the plotter from dawn till dusk so it only gets light usage 🙂

http://www.hexis.co.uk

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Shane – no worries………

by the way the font was called Foundry Gridnik

cheers

Neil

😀

[Neil Churchman]

I managed to identify the font over the weekend thanks to this website

http://www.myfonts.com/

you post a copy of the text which is automatically scanned and offers you a match, and if that doesn’t work it will then post it onto a specialist typefont forum.

really pleased how it all worked

thanks for everyone’s help

😀

[Neil Churchman]

Hey Simon,

That’s the best match so far – I’m going to see if I can get a better picture of the lettering, and re-post it to see if that makes it easier to identify.

thanks for your help

Neil

🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Thanks Shane,

The closest font I have found so far is called

OCR-A-11 😮

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Guys – thanks for your help.

I like Roberts idea of using the foam stuff.
Not used it before so don’t know its properties and where to get it from.
Is it suitable for exterior use and can it be spray painted?

Can’t think of any more questions at this stage but if we get the job
maybe you could point us in the right direction if you’ve used this material before. 🙂

[Neil Churchman]

Hi Simon,

We were thing of making something out of glass fiber, with a metal
back tray to mount some LED lighting and fixing points on to 🙄