signworxs
Forum Replies Created
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Cant remember the BS number but it is Process Blue
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Some one said that undercharging was ruining the industry,but equally overcharging has a worse effect and in my opinion to expect £400 for an 8×4 foam-ex and 10 meters of vinyl is overpricing
i said this sign would come in at 240/265ish and I’ve been in this game 26 years and my prices have always been competitive this is the going rate for two 8×2 panels fitted. If you were supplying a frame and fixing then that is another thing altogether. -
Well to be honest there’s about £50/60 tops in materials and using my normal double it and add 100% for this kind of work (assuming your only supplying and fitting the panels ie no framing) my quote would be about £240 maybe 265 if it wasn’t a straight forward fix.
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Hi Stefan, met you in Greece, Didn’t you stripe a model car for one of the boys there. Send me some details and if its not too far I might come over.
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Shanes on the money here. I had a roland that did the same thing, changed the knife carrier and problem solved.
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try doming resin….. just a thought
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Course we’ve got freedom of speech in Britain, just not for the British thats all. Wots everyones problem I like being picked on for being a motorist, being over 50 and dont mind at all that I may get a criminal record for putting the wrong rubbish in the line of black (can I say that)brown (can I say that) green (I know I can say that …….I think) bins that i have to find room for in my small garden. Britain……..its gone mad.
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This realy is sad news indeed. John was a very dear friend for almost 10 years, I will miss him and his wit. Heres a favorite pic of John, Joe Crummley, Henry Barker and myself enjoying a beer on a boat in Greece. My thoughts will be with Johns family on the 21st when John is laid to rest.
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No one has mentioned the RAC yet. What were they thinking when they went with that design.
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Totaly agree with Mike on this. I dont know how true this is and I will stand corrected but I was told that signs express prefer their franchisee not to have worked in the sign industry at all.
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Got 5 vehicles 3 of which are autos, 2.5 mondeo 24 valve goes like stink when the sports mode button is pressed and so does the fuel gauge. Dodge ram day van 318 (5.2) can’t imagin that with manual again goes like stink (pulled at 127 on M8 not bad for a 3 ton van got off on a technicality…..speedo only went up to 85 officer). Got a camper with a 454 big block (7.4)in thats pushed to do 75, mind you it is 32 foot long and 7 ton. Rover 45 manual and crap but the missus likes it. Harley dynaglide naaaaaaa cant imagine auto some how. By the way did I mention I like yank stuff 😀
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From what I remember about planning you may find that the area of wood above the shutter (460 x 4800) is the area given "deemed consent" for signs at the planning application stage, meaning that signs erected within that area do not need separate planning consent, however signs that exceed those dimentions would need plannind permision. I know its resolved now but somthing to remember if it crops up again.
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Below is an extract from my post of the 20th june. For the reasons within it the osat or ewpa routes will not work for everyone and will be cost prohibative. The key words in the assessment are approved assessor. Assessors HAVE to be approved by the BSGA/BPTA(as it was) who are the joint awarding bodies for the sign industry NVQ. The system of assessment/internal verification/external verification cannot be short cut!!!and you cirtainly would not get a NVQ certificate in a few weeks.
The H&S unit its self is quite detailed and for a one man band to obtain without registering with an accredited center is impossible, the reason being is that on site assessment has to be done, who would do that?… because it can only be assessed by a trade specific person with a least 5 years experience (set by QCA), and further more the assessment process has to be intenally verified (a process of quality control) this process can only be done by someone holding D32/33/34 assessor and verifier certs’ (now Vunits) again who would do that and further to that ALL work has to be externally verified a job that I believe is still being done by Peter Tipton for the BSGA as the awarding body. It would also involve producing a portfolio of work (theory) to support the application for unit award. Some have mentioned that accredited centers are few and far between, this is mainly down to the fact that in some areas of the country colleges/centers have been poorly supported by the local industry and due to lack of students have had to close the courses. I know of 4 centers that have closed sign courses in the last year or so.
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Mike
I refer to my post above regarding assessors/verifiers. There are now only a handfull of colleges in the country that run sign courses and it is only those colleges that could send out assessors etc. It is very doubtfull that other colleges employ assessors that have 5 years current experience in the sign industry. -
Just a short note only on this because it has been discussed at length before. I used to run the BSGA NVQ2 course at my local college. As such we had to attend annual conferences and the CSCS card subject was first mentioned over 5 years ago by Peter Tipton the then director of BSGA. The H&S unit its self is quite detailed and for a one man band to obtain without registering with an accredited center is impossible, the reason being is that on site assessment has to be done, who would do that?… because it can only be assessed by a trade specific person with a least 5 years experience (set by QCA), and further more the assessment process has to be intenally verified (a process of quality control) this process can only be done by someone holding D32/33/34 assessor and verifier certs’ (now Vunits) again who would do that and further to that ALL work has to be externally verified a job that I believe is still being done by Peter Tipton for the BSGA as the awarding body. It would also involve producing a portfolio of work (theory) to support the application for unit award. Some have mentioned that accredited centers are few and far between, this is mainly down to the fact that in some areas of the country colleges/centers have been poorly supported by the local industry and due to lack of students have had to close the courses. I know of 4 centers that have closed sign courses in the last year or so. It is only now when somthing like the CSCS scheme comes along that that requires a qualification to achieve it that people end up in a flat spin trying to find somewhere to do so, or they may lose work/money. If its any consolation to anyone I didnt apply for my card under the grandfather rights/experienced route so am in the same boat as most of you, now how stupid is that.
One more thought on this is that Walsall college and possibly Sheffield and others are activly using E learning (on line learning) so that may be a possibility for some that live a distance fron a center. They would then arrange the assessments and verifications. mind you everything has a cost so sit down when you ask what the fees are.
Did I say short note :lol1: -
Fantastic pic’s Henry thanks for sharing. I think everyone enjoyed themselves despite Fawlty Towers and the huge hearty breakfast! Did the job though even if we did only use the beds for four hours each night, I think the barman was still serving drinks at 4:30am on sunday morning.
I echo your thankyous to stuart and his family for once again puting on a right good meet and looking after everyone.
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just got back after a 5 hour drive home, nice to meet you andrew, you cirtainly missed a good night last night. Marek that is the man himself, Mike that is.
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If he does put anything up tell him its got to be 2.1 mtrs from the base of the sign to the ground or he’s open the claims if anyone walks into them.
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I’m there. got to keep my eye on rob. Rob there may well be some brushes for sale at the meet but Handovers do the 2112 range of sable chisle edge brushes and for a no2, a 4, and a 6 should be about £15/£20 max. Paul
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Just 50 yards off the end of the Charles bridge heading toward old town square (where the clock is) theres a brill pub cum restaurant called the golden oak, You will get a realy good meal in there for about a fiver (160 crowns) including a couple of beers. As has been said go a few streets back from the main tourist areas and its all cheap food and booze.
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Brian I know this is no help but I’ve just checked it on mine and its quite an old version tom tom 2 map version 323 from 2002 and that finds it ok. have you tried the tom tom web site for updates?
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Harry, spot on about Gary Moore I realy liked his early stuff and was looking forward to seeing him as much as BB but felt let down. The rest of the band were very lethargic and I would go as far as to say the bass player was rubbish……….they reminded me of the casino lounge type band. BB did play the thrill is gone and it was superb but he didn’t play Lucielle(spelling)? Nik good idea, I’ve listened to a few tracks today just to remind myself what he was like and I have to say hes better on cd.
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Just being picky I supose but 8 foot is 2440.
However what niggles me is that in some suppliers they will actualy advertise a sheet of timber as 8X4 by 12mm mixing the two types of measurements. On the continent timber does come in varying sizes ie. 1000×2000 1000×2500 and so on. I still do use imperial but you would think that after 34 years of being metric we would have fully converted by now. I used to teach at the local college and part of the course was key skills and all the way through the application of number there are still references to imperial measurement and calculation. No wonder the kids are confused. -
Nik thats not fair I can just smell that peaty aroma now. (drink1) Finished my last bottle at new year.
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hey cool stuff beej,
just tried to call answer yer phone! :lol1:
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just heard jill that Tramp Warner is attending.
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Yup shane hes a ladies man I have the photos to prove, last year in greece he nicked my wife for the dancing some of which was on tables which suits me cos I aint a dancer. If you saw the mans work you would understand the reputation hes got. His son Paul now runs the business and services a lot of blue chip companies, their work is top class.
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Dont forget your giving the brushes a go rob. :lol1:
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Nothing has been said about the cars that are converted to lpg. My daily driver is a 5.3 V8 dodge van but i get the equivilent to 33 to the gallon and produce zero emissions. Where will that put the big gas guzlers if they are on lpg?
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Like jill I’ve known John for a number of years now and all I can say is the mans work is awsome. If any Aussies can make it to Johns class do so you will not be dissapointed. Attached is John J(on the left), Joe Crummley, Henry Barker and myself, looking forward to meeting all three at tickle in the trossachs and you as well jill, not long now och ey.
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Victory Design are your people.
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:rofl:
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Brian I think were at cross purposes here by imitation gold I mean the mustardy yellow called imitation gold. If you mean the golds and bronzes that one shot do then I agree they do dry flat and need clearing.
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Hi all.
Brian, the gold being one shotdries to a good gloss so no varnishing needed.
LJ Yup dead right Thurgoland is where the engine is stored and yes it is the one near sheffield. Its owned by a guy called Les Donn.
The pic below makes the name board look as bent as Dale Winton but it is really straight as a die.
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Hi Neil yes its one shot imitation gold and the shadow is imitation gold and burgundy mixed.
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more of the name boards, they are 2.8 mtrs long by 15cm
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more of the name boards, they are 2.8 mtrs long by 15cm
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As soon as a customer mentions logo design I mention DESIGN FEE & COPYRIGHT. I never release any art work without a deposit is paid which is then subtracted from the job price if it goes ahead, that way if they use someone else I havn’t worked for nowt.
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Is this question a wind up?
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Seen similar before but it still amazes me how quick you can read it 😀
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Hey ya wee brush slinger lookin forward to it.
Jill if things and dates pan out and we meet up at sign uk your welcome to a lift to the meet with me n the other half.
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You bin lookin at that John Hanukane book again terry? Your work always amazes me your colour combos and style take it one step further.
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well spotted peter the truth is out 😳 stripE
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Not lost your touch then terry? I have you to blame for all the striping in my workshop, I first saw you strip at Jon Lessons meet in 97. Although I had seen striping before I liked your style so gave it a go…..think I’m just about there. :lol1:
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Did exactly that this weekend but used a calor gas heater in the van, worked a treat.
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Used meths for 20 years and never had a problem but will tell you tomorrow……… doing a van that was resprayed 3 weeks ago, should have finished outgassing by now.
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I’ve just got in from a concert at Sheffield arena ALICE COOPER man hes the dogs danglies. Bought the schools out album when it first came out in the seventies and its taken me 30 odd years to see him live but it was worth the wait :punk: :drums:
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Hey wot about all us that missed it yesterday, Not fair 🙁
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looks good billy, like the windows.
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I’ve seen red used on a lot of fleet wagons, as I understood it only colour that was a no no on rear doors was white. Could be wrong though.
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Just got in from the Stevie Vai concert and at the moment the man is god.what an absolute awsome guitar player that man is :punk: you were right though nik can’t here a thing 😀
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and me 🙁
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dont you dare keep yer mouth shut, its what makes these posts interesting, and everyone is entitled to their opinion after all and you did have a valid point to make. Oh and I’ll make sure you have a go at sign painting I’ll even lend you the brushes, then I’ll bombard you with printing questions.
Paul
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Jill
Whats going to happen if the licky stickies go to stuarts meet next year cos they will be bombarded by this sort of thinking from us brushies. By the way IMHO the sign is about right AND has that personal touch that you can’t get with vinyl. Why do we have to abide by rules, the people we now regard as masters would have done exactly what ND signs has done!!! My 2p’s worth.
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Steve you could also log on to the letterhead web site and look at future meets.
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I’m with Becky on this. I have used both and Signlab has simpler easier to understand functions. The learning curve on signlab is steep, meaning that you will be doing quite advanced stuff on signlab well before anything else. However software is a personal choice! as has been said download the free trials of both and give them a go.
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Wrote this in a different post earlier but covers this post as well.
Also a bit O/T and NOT aimed at Derek or this post subject, but I can actualy empathise with Phills comment to some extent, there does seem to be a load of new blood coming into the trade within the last year, nothing wrong with that they are most welcome, we always need talented designers / applicators etc. However there also seems to be a lot of posts around from newbies of the “how do I apply vinyl” “will you design my sign for me” theme, and there have been some that basic. I wouldnt dream of suddenly saying “I know I’ll become a plasterer today” then go on ukplasterboards (pun intended) and post how do I apply plaster. I did an apprenticeship in the trade and learnt about colour, legability and layout, but now you just spend £2k on kit and wey hey your a “signmaker”……… not. I stress this is NOT aimed at Derek or any particular “newbie” just as I see it from the posts of late. I should also say that I have also seen some newbie work posted that was of very good quality. I know we are all prepared to help out anyone, I have also asked for advice. I teach signmaking at the local college and I know I’ve helped a lot of youngsters and not so young into the trade many of them are now my competition but newcomers should really seek some kind of training in the basics and while some of that training/help can come from these boards in the way of advice and tips and tricks it is not a substitute for hands on training. My workshop doors are always open to anyone and still do get past trainees coming back or phoning for advice which I gladly give where I know the answer. My signature on these boards when we had them was “never too old to learn”
Just my 2p’s worth and slap on th wrists accepted with grace. Off my soapbox now.(edit) by the way, by newbie I mean new to the trade not new to the boards.
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Pricing can be difficult at the best of times but I use a very simple formula that has worked for 25 years and I still make a healthy profit. I simly add up ALL the materials costs I mean everything including travel, double it and add 50%, My prices always seem to be within a few quid of other sign shops.
Also a bit O/T and NOT aimed at Derek or this post subject, but I can actualy empathise with Phills comment to some extent, there does seem to be a load of new blood coming into the trade within the last year, nothing wrong with that they are most welcome, we always need talented designers / applicators etc. However there also seems to be a lot of posts around from newbies of the “how do I apply vinyl” “will you design my sign for me” theme, and there have been some that basic. I wouldnt dream of suddenly saying “I know I’ll become a plasterer today” then go on ukplasterboards (pun intended) and post how do I apply plaster. I did an apprenticeship in the trade and learnt about colour, legability and layout, but now you just spend £2k on kit and wey hey your a “signmaker”……… not. I stress this is NOT aimed at Derek or any particular “newbie” just as I see it from the posts of late. I should also say that I have also seen some newbie work posted that was of very good quality. I know we are all prepared to help out anyone, I have also asked for advice. I teach signmaking at the local college and I know I’ve helped a lot of youngsters and not so young into the trade many of them are now my competition but newcomers should really seek some kind of training in the basics and while some of that training/help can come from these boards in the way of advice and tips and tricks it is not a substitute for hands on training. My workshop doors are always open to anyone and still do get past trainees coming back or phoning for advice which I gladly give where I know the answer. My signature on these boards when we had them was “never too old to learn”
Just my 2p’s worth and slap on th wrists accepted with grace. Off my soapbox now. -
hey nik
Joe Satriani……..Stevie Vai………mmmmmmmmmmm will let you in november as I have tickets to see Stevie Vai in Sheffield then Alice Cooper two weeks after, I’m going to be buzzin for weeks. Bought schools out (album) the day it was released what are the odds of getting it signed do you think?Funny some one else should mention Walter Trout mans a genius….. how about Frank White (from Sheffield and a pal of Walter Trout also from Sheffield I believe) turned down Claptons invitation to join him cos he wanted to carry on doing the blues club scene. How bout Robin Trower rumor has it that both Vai and Satriani emulated his “space guitar style”
Could go on, there are many note worthy guitarists who all play different styles, its hard to say just who is the best.
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Been doing narrow boats on and off for 15 years or so and they get the thumbs up from me. Fact is I use vinyl myself now n again when the design warrants it.
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Welcome to the site Dave, dont worry bout it ask as many questions as you like there is always someone here who will be able to give you an answer.
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hi jill
loads of pics ready to post but i’m still over here in greece, john j sends his love and hooked up with Sheila Ferrell wot a gal shes mad. the meet was a blast with all the big names in attendance,Dave Butler,Doc Welty, Gary Anderson and loads more. Will post as soon as
i get home on the 25th.Paul
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Great Yarmouth, that would more than likley be PKM sign studio guy called Pete Millichamp, outstanding signman.
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My every day brushes are Handovers 2112 extra long chisles,I also have a selection of whistler pointed quills a small selection of grumbackers (spelling?)I also have several mack and excalibur stripers,some Alan Johnson signature brushes some Jenson swirlyQ’s (absolutly superb for scroll work) and quite a few oddments, probably about 60 brushes in all. Most are over 15 years old but if cared for will last another 15.
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have a look on the handovers web site under books theres one called vinyl graphics, how to. dont know what its like never seen it. Try my hardest not to use vinyl. http://www.handover.co.uk/acatalog/
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Yea had a similar one that said my account would be activated soon, there was no attachment but deleted it anyway.
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Been doing this for a few years now and never had any problems with it lifting, sure livens up crappy ol vinyl. Heres one I did about 18 months ago. I notice you have used Plasti cote, not very good, I use Humbrol enamel and dont have any problems with adhesion. Others use screen inks through an air brush but i find the rattle cans convenient.
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M8 must be the place to get caught. 2am and just come off Erskine bridge towards Glasgow Airport and a lovely long straight, clocked at 129 in my dodge van, got off on a technicality as my speedo only went up to 85 and cop says he only stopped me cos it was novel to see something that big going that fast. glad he was in a good mood!
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Hi LJ yes I will be doing the tourist thing but Dont know if its sensible but I’ve hired a motorbike to get round on, whats the roads like?
Jill you look after Dewi now, and get some brushes in the mans hand and show him what its all about :lol1:
Rob ok will speak to you soon.
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Rob I will take loads of picies of the greek meet and let you have them to post if you wish. It would take another scot to understand stuart he has a real deep scottish accent, you are also right rob the mans a gent a real nice fella.
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Hi LJ yup that is one of the sites thats on the must do list along with a few others. Were at the meet for 4 days then were spending another two and a half weeks sight seeing. :lol1:
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You will really enjoy it nik, his last meet was brill. :lol1: Look forward to meeting you there.
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Well done rob. May the “boards” be with you young robert. Ooops a star wars moment there. 😀
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Going back a few years but any one remember Gene Krupper.
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wot!!! nobody mentioned Ginger Baker, mad as a box of frogs but cant half swing a stick. :drums: ooops sorry just noticed red dragons post 😳
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Or french chalk, dust whole board, size, gild then wipe off dust and excess gold.
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Just to further emphasize how good they are I have had two camm1’s in use at the college where i teach signmaking, they have been in constant use for the last 7 years and survived about 75 inexperienced students, the only parts that have been replaced are the neoprene strips (£5) on the bed plus the usual servicing. You will not be dissapointed, however that is not to say that there are some other makes out there that would have taken the same abuse.
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that makes it 171 shopping days not counting sundays. :lol1:
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I always tend to use a little meths when wiping down correx, helps to kill the static.
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I’d like to sort it with a big block chevy (454ci 7400cc) big n little wheels and traditional paint and pinstiped, that would surprise Mr PC plod.
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bet he’s fun at airports :lol1:
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oh poo the wifes on nights it’ll have to wait till tomorrow :lol1:
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What realy pis*”s me off is that dvla actualy advertise numberplates with incorrectly spaced numbers and letters to make up names and relieve you of your cash THEN tell you its illigal to use incorrectly spaced plates. (:) (:) (:) (:)
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just checked out the prices on handovers web site 2112 no2,4,6,8, £28.53 one shot basic colours are £6.22 a pot and a mahl stick £10 so I recon a basic kit can be put together for about £70 +the book at £20max have fun :lol1:
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Ali as I said in my other post the 2112 range are excellent brushes I use them myself and I would go for a no2,4,6,8.
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sorry don’t agree with buying cheaper brushes (though I do have some sable ox mix myself) you may get a poor result from them and not bother anymore, you wouldn’t buy a socket set from the £1 shop to learn to be a car mechanic. Im a big believer in buying the tools you are going to work with. mho :lol1:
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hey neil does any of your books show the OHV system of drawing up letters
paul
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Excellent work Andrew, known Dave a number of years through the letterheads meetings and am always blown away by the demos he does. His work is superb and so detailed. I remember one piece in particular that was commision by Signcraft magazine, Awsome!! He uses a method called angel gilding that is so fine its untrue. And a realy nice guy too.
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This post has frightened me to death. Just bought an american rv (motorhome to us europeans :lol1: ) with a 7400cc Chevy engine bout 8 to the gallon if im lucky but hoping gas stays cheap cos its being converted to lpg.
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oh yes Brian been there got paint on the t shirt. wouldn’t be the first time I’ve had to wipe off the side of a van (:)
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I must back up John Harding here and pat him on the back for having his level 2. As some off you will know I have been teaching the NVQ level 2 qualification accredited by the bsga for around ten years now and can hold my hand on my heart and say that when students leave they are definitly NOT not very qualified,(sorry for the quote Dewi) One of the reasons I am an advocate of such courses (apart from the good salary :lol1: ) is that I think we should all share our knowledge and thats exactly what I do, I pass on the skills that were passed on to me, exactly as is done here on uksg. Ok some will say traditional signmaking is all but dead but what cant die is the knowledge of layout and colour theory/ legebility, that will never change. Ok a student can go to college and only achieve the vynil application unit but they have to prove underpinning knowledge of ALL the different materials and their properties and which material to use in any given circumstance. I could spend a lot of time on this and point out other benefits like health and safety training, COSHH, access equipment training, knowledge of town and country planning applications when, where, deemed consent etc I could go on. Alot of people knock formal training but isnt that what our apprenticeships were about I did 5 years with an old hand but also went to tech college to learn why I had to do things the way I was told. (chat.)
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Just noticed in neil and signs elite’s posts that they are lefties, as you can see from my avatar so am I………….spooky :lol1: like them I also spent about 4 years constantly painting Gill Sans, geez how I hated Eric Gill back then. (:)
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Handovers do a range of brushes called the 2112 range they are a chisle edge extra length out sable and are teriffic value for money, I used to get them in for all the students on my course. If my memory seves me right if you buy every other number ie a number 2/4/6/8 that should come to about £30ish then about 4 tins of one shot at £6/7 and youre away for less than £60. As john says get hold of Bill Stewarts book as well, order that at the same time from handovers. Go for it! you will have fun, there are some very talented traditional guys n gals on here who will be happy to help with advice. Also dont dismiss combining traditional methods and vynull, a simple air brush blend across vynull lettering takes it to another level and takes seconds.
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Hey dude awsome. Do you want a harley tank to practice on :lol1: Can’t wait to see that in the flesh so to speak at pro custom, see you there Bri
paul
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Wish my workshop looked that homely :lol1: Only joking dude, well done on all that hand painting, not enough traditional work about these days. As you can see from my avatar thats my background as well (26 years)
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Engine turned signgold would look real classy on dark blue particularly if its a coat off arms type logo. my 2p’s worth. 😎
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Ive put weight on :lol1:
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Hi leigh
Welcome to the uk signboards.
nice to see you made it here from signf*$>”s, really must drop in there again and catch up with grahame,kimon,sunny,jack,whit and all the rest.
paul
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if you dont have any luck with hexis try victory designs they do wood and marble effect vinyls.
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good job you fixed it or you would have a blazon argument about it………….sorry couldnt help myself :lol1: