Working in the wet/cold

[David McDonald]

Hi Steve

last winter was my first and last for outside van jobs – now have my warm (ish) unit. I spent 3 solid days doing one van that had tons of stuff on it, average temp was about 3 to 4 degrees and it took me a whole week to recover.

My tip of the day is to stick a fan heater on inside the van to warm the panels up from inside. Not particluarly cheap but when your fingers are so cold and the vinyl is becoming brittle it’s worth it.

Cheers
Macky

[signworxs]

Did exactly that this weekend but used a calor gas heater in the van, worked a treat.

[Steve Dawson]

why didn’t i think of that !!!!!!!!!

heater on the inside , great !!

thanks guys

sd

[Lynn Normington]

We also work outside, if it isn’t windy we use a calor gas heater outside directed on to the panels, keeps your pinkys warmer as well, nothing worse than numb fingers for applying vinyl !!! and it’s not as if you can wear gloves 🙄
We don’t work in the rain unless it’s urgent , then we put a tarpulin over both vans with a gap in the middle then turn it round.

Lynn

[Andy Gorman]

I actually prefer working outdoors. Generally speaking, we get less wind and rain in the winter than we do in spring and summer. I really hate it when the wind picks up. As long as the surface is dry, I’ve never had a problem applying vinyl to vehicles in the cold, just a bit more care needed taking the tape off. Warming it with a hair dryer helps.

Windows, on the other hand, are a pain in the arse when the glass is cold.
Does anyone else find that brand new glass can be a real bugger to stick to. Even the masking tape doesn’t stick sometimes.

[Cheryl Tissington]

Hi there,

“By eck, it’s cold here “!

I’ve just flown in tonight from a week in Tenerife. Been looking at a fleet of small yachts that need new graphics designing and applying.

Left this morning in lovely scorching weather ……what happened ???

Oh well, better go and put a jumper on, and get ready for work tomorrow.

Cheryl

[John Childs]

So everybody ignores the 10 degree minimum application temperature then?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[Jayne Marsh]

Ive done some jobs in sub zero temps and usually have no problem getting the vinyl to stick so long as the panels are bone dry. Keep having to dash back inside to get the feeling back in my fingers :lol1:
I won’t fix in the rain but Ive got a covered area that I can get most sizes of van under if it does begin to rain. Not my most favourite time of year for fixing outside!

[Shane Drew]

quote John Childs:

So everybody ignores the 10 degree minimum application temperature then?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

I was just about to post the same John. 😮

Avery and 3M will void any warranty in a heartbeat if they find material fitted in this environment 🙄 😛

[Marcella Ross]

I can only repeat what’s already been said. Being north of the border it’s always a few degrees colder!! 😕 Keep the van as dry as possible and wherever possible use some form of heat. Take care removing the app tape as the vinyl is brittle and can tear.
Other than that good luck! 😀

[Tim Painter]

Literally just done a shop window………..

Wasn’t the vinyl that wouldnt stick it was the dam masking tape.

Anyone use any certain tape for when glass is cold?

To add to the above run the customers vehicle with the blowers on making sure they have enough juice first… 😳

Also if your vehicle is warm and you are on site take out only the vinyl you need as you go to keep it a little warmer.

If all else fails go to the pub 🙂

Tim.

[John Harding]

Hi John and Shane

quote :

So everybody ignores the 10 degree minimum application temperature then?

try lg chem sais in their blurb good to 2 degrees – you softies 😀 😀 😀

John

[John Childs]

Yeah, well, don’t tell my customers. 😀

Although I have to say that I find LG brittle even at 10 degrees.

[Robert Lambie]

john, i havent used LG mate mate. so my comments here shouldn’t be taken as Gospel. “just a view i have on it” over the last few years of running the boards and using other sign sites. i have heard that LG is not the best of makes??? again… i know nothing about this product. only comments made which i have taken note. anyway, if you or anyone else is having good results and rate the vinyl please let us know. its good to hear of new brands doing well.

on the cold subject, I’m with john childs and co too… hate and actually refuse to work in these temps outside. that said, we DO have customers that insist. but i make a point in saying the vinyl doesn’t stick and the whole warranty thing… (doesn’t change the fact, I’m freezing and hate fitting in cold 😕 )

anyway, as has been said, tips… heater in van is a good one if you have a cold workshop… but… if your fitting outside. leave the van running and turn the heating up full pelt. leave it like that for 30mins or more before starting your fitting….
also, heat the panels you will apply to with a hot air gun….

NEVER apply wet in the cold. i know i may get flamed by some for saying that but i have to be realistic. 😕

[Hugh Potter]

i have a few rolls of LG 7yr, it’s not good (in my experience) for small (like 10mm non bold fonts) lettering, but is fine for larger stuff,

[Paul Franklin]

Have had to apply vinyl to many a van or window in the cold. Have managed to apply them in the snow onto a wet cold surface and they are still on there to this day. Only problem is when it comes to removing the application tape the vinyl is a lot more brittle and torn a few letters in the process.

Have never tried doing any form of vehicle wrapping in the cold as I’ve always thought this was supposed to be done with the vehicle having a temperature of about 20 degrees C

[Jayne Marsh]

Rob, I think I may have said this before in another thread, but I use LG Chem and have had absolutely no trouble with it at all, I also use Mactac and occasionally Oracal, depending on colours and what the vinyl is to be used for. LG Chem has improved greatly and I have never had a complaint from a customer about it, and so far it has lasted extremely well. Also for those of us not lucky enough to have a nice heated workshop to fit vehicles in, we have to fit outside in all weathers and still do a first class job of it, its a question of preparation and common sense. I dont fit outside in the rain, I do warm the panels up and I keep all vinyl inside right up until it is about to be applied to the vehicle.
So next time you are fitting a vehicle inside just spare a thought for all us outdoor fitters with our woolly hats, scarves and thermal knickers :lol1:

[John Childs]

Oh dear, I’m going to get into trouble here. I’m sorry, but I can’t help myself. 🙂

Having a nice heated workshop is not luck. It is a matter of being prepared to make the investment.

Those of you fitting outside spare a thought for those of us that incur higher overheads to provide proper facilities so that a job can be completed on the arranged day whatever the weather, fit vinyl in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, comply with health and safety regulations etc etc etc.

We are regularly asked to quote for fitting free issue decals and are often undercut by competitors who are prepared to do the work in the street or a local car park. You can imagine how good this makes me feel. 🙁

[Jayne Marsh]

Hmmmmm…………biting my lip here 👿
I have typed a reply about five times and then erased it, so Im not going to say anything other than when I can afford a heated workshop to fit vehicles in then I will make the investment. I worked for a company for 6 years and he started by fitting vehicles under his carport and can now afford his own heated workshop to fit vehicles in but it took him many years to achieve this.

[Shane Drew]

I agree in theory John to what you say, but you are not a one man band like most here.

I hocked myself to the hilt to build my own farm shed on my parents property, and I too am at the mercy of peope who don’t have the overheads. But I think people like Jayne and others here are in a slightly different situation.

I have no idea as to the area you guys live, but I get the impression that most here are in small communities. An investment like that would be a big undertaking. I am fortunate that I have a lot of choices for work, continual contracts that keep the bills paid, but just because their circumstances don’t allow them to go into hock, I don’t think we should be considering them any less sign makers. I certainly wouldn’t be critical of the work environment unless you knew their circumstances better

just my 2c. I think Jayne has a right to be miffed here and I think she showed a lot of restraint

[eddie cotter]

i am outside today fitting a truck, its bloody freezing, this is my last winter doing this, i live on the top of a hill, the wind is realy strong up here,
any way, the land owner behind me has just agreed to sell me a few acres
of land, so in the new year, i will be putting up a 35ftx65ft shed
with a fifteen ft automatic door at one end so i can get any size truck in,
i just came back inside to get some circulation back in my fingers,
i have lost count on how many vehicles i couldnt finish because if the rain
& it realy annoys the customer as well, having to come back!!
so i reckon the money it costs to build the shed will be a good investment
as i can get more work done & on time……

[John Childs]

Jayne,

I’m glad that I’ve raised your temperature on a cold Sunday morning but I hope you realise that I am speaking in general terms and not having a pop at you personally. 🙂

I can’t do that because I know neither you, your business nor the area you work in, but the people that I am talking about are never going to be able to afford their own workshop because they charge such ridiculously low prices. All they want to do is to undercut everybody else, do the job as quickly as they can, and disappear with the money. As far as guaranteeing their work goes – forget it.

We, on the other hand, have fitted customer supplied graphics in a cold open car park and, despite having told the customer emphatically that there would be problems, been expected to rectify them free of charge when the decals lifted during pressure washing. Needless to say I refused to do it but the customer was really annoyed and accused me of being a cowboy.

I’ve got to ask though – apart from those just starting out, say a couple of years in the business, why would anybody charging proper money not be able to afford proper facilities?

Shane,

I was a one man band once. 🙂

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I just completed a 4×8 painted sign on my diningroom table.
As soon as we were done Thanksgiving dinner I had the kids bring it down out of the garage.
With the high cost of natural gas this year (50% to 70% increase due to Katrina) there is no way I am heating my garage.
I am lucky enuff to know someone with a commercial garage that I can trade small stickers for in exchange for the use of a heated bay to apply vinyl.
I always try to avoid working outdoors, no matter the season.
Scorching sun can be just as big of a pain as the cold and rain.
Love…..Jill

[Peter Normington]

We work from home, so most of the vehicles we do outside on our drive,
never had problems, My applications have never failed, and if they had they would be of course be covered under my personal warranty.

I do not fit viny when the temp is less than recomended by the manufacturer, I do have friends and coleagues who will let me use their facilities if needed, but It is a rare occasion if I need to.

We do not have any employees to keep cosy, nor have we any plans to expand. A unit, leased or bought would only increase my overheads, so I would have to pass this on to my customers. or take less profit.
It suits me, the quality of our work is not compromised in any way

If you sometimes fit vinyl to 40′ trailers, should you only do it if you have a workshop that can accomodate?

Like others we fit vinyl to shops and office, and some of this has to be done outside, so other than waiting for a nice warm day we just get on with it.

Its not a matter of professionalism, if you work from home or in in a unit.

Cowboys can rent or buy just as easy as anyone.

Peter

[Paul Franklin]

As far as I’m concerned I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Peter.

I couldn’t afford to become a fair weather signwriter.

[John Childs]

Peter, if you have friends and colleagues whose facilities you can use if necessary then that’s fine. That you don’t own or rent them yourself is not important but the fact that they are available is. That’s how I started.

Paul, I can’t afford to be a fair weather signwriter either. I am presently quoting to re-brand vans in a dozen locations around the country. The cost of sending a couple of fitters on a three hundred mile round trip in December only for them not to be able to do the job because the vans are under a foot of snow is not affordable to me nor acceptable to my customer who will have the expense of taking the vans off the road for the day. If appropriate premises have to be rented for a day or two close to their depots then that is what will happen. The financial consequences of non-performance is too great for both of us.

[Paul Franklin]

I’ve just remembered what I was supposed to do during the summer after fitting some of the escapades fitting in the wet last year.

On the second picture of this post https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … highlight=

you can see a collapsible marquis that actually folded up to a a large punching bag / backpack size. Not shown on this picture, as we didn’t have to use them are pull down zip up sides.

This could be put up quickly and easily and would help to keep a bit of heat in.

Now to ask my client where he got his from and have a browse on the web for one.

[Lynn Normington]

Paul how big is that thing? can you get anything in bigger than a smart car? and does it need grass to be based on 🙄 apart from these few concerns I see what you are saying.

Lynn

[Robert Lambie]

lynn im sure they do come much bigger, but probably not as portable. i wouldnt imagine grass would be an issue. if you used them always in same place, ide imagine a few freeze blocks with holes in them for the legs would do fine.

[Paul Franklin]

Lynn, The legs could have been extended a lot further and at a good guess reckon you could get a high top sprinter or similar underneath.
There were braces at the top of the legs to give some stability. This one was set up on tarmac with guy ropes being attached to various fence posts.

[Lynn Normington]

looks like worth thinging about thanks for that.

Lynn 😎

[Nick Minall]

is this what you are looking for?

http://www.instantawnings.co.uk/

this one is better

http://www.monstermarketplace.com/googl … 9.asp?q=ez up

[Derek Heron]

i think thats what they are called
have a look on this site http://www.theawningcompany.co.uk
i used to have a free standing one 5 x 5 metre but had to put all the poles together realy strong but was just under a grand and tok ages to put up
just bough a 6×3 metre party tent thing for track days that was about £350 quit good not like the makro jobs with plastic poles
the easy ups are brill go up in about two minuites realy strong just hang something heavy at each corner the walls all velcro on

[Derek Heron]

Hi nick that’s the site i was looking for those prices seem relay good especially the big un with all the sides bags etc

[Nick Minall]

Hi Derek, Easy ups are good but not on windy days, especially at Knock Hill !!!!!!!!

[Derek Heron]

nothing is good at knockhill 😮 Weather wise! great demanding circuit raced there loads never ever had a dry day went up to watch and got sunburnt sods law worst weather northwest 200 always windy always wet
done the 2000 production TT on std road Tyre’s that was a nightmare absolutely lashed down got a finish and swore never to race TY in the wet again but i love racing in the wet hate the cold though
rules have changed now you can use wets
back to the original post
:thumbup2: easy ups