Meddling interfering customers

[John Childs]

Dunno really Phill.

Get him to sign to say that you have explained the problem, and that he instructs you to carry on anyway?

[Marcella Ross]

I have to agree with john there….. not much else you can do other than not do the job at all. I get him to sign as said, take the money and run! 😀

[Alistair Richards]

I’d agree with John too, but if proceeding to fit the sign, I’d double check that they are definately cavity wall vents and not bathroom or kitchen extractor vents, especially kitchen as the sign would get pretty dirty with all the greasy gunk pumping out of that.

Ali

[Graeme Speirs]

why not give him a price for the sign alone and then a crazy price for installation, then you can be held responsible. and he can get a joiner etc to fit it.

[Phill Fenton]

I had initially considered getting him to sign a letter instructing me to fit the sign in this way. However, my concern is that this would not really absolve me from any responsibilty in knowingly covering up these vents (they’re cavity vents Alistair – designed to ventilate the timber frame, they are a requirement by building control for this type of building).

The shop is being rented – so this guy does not actually own the building yet he is instructing me to carry out a procedure which can potentially cause long term structural damage (I beleive part of the timber frame could rot as a result – though not being an engineer I do not really know for sure how crucial these things are – I only know that building control officers take these things seriously enough to withhold a completion certificate until all cavity vents are free of debris on a new build – This was the case on my home extension last year).

I do think my moral duty is to act to ensure nothing I do could potentially damage the building.

I argued the case most strongly a few days ago and thought I had managed to convince this guy to take my advice and fit it my way. However, today he phoned me up and asked me to make the sign bigger completely ignoring my advice and opinion.

Maybe I should seek the advice of my local building control – however, I don’t want to open a can of worms when this should not be my problem.

Indeed there would be no problem at all if the client would allow me to fit a sign of the size I have recomended in the position I have suggested.

[Les Woods]

If you’re really worried and don’t want to be held liable for anything if it later causes problems then there are two options: walk away from the job completely or just provide the sign.

If you want to fi tit I’d get him to sign something absolving you but if you’re not happy then don’t do it.

At the end of the day its about whats sits with your conscience – if you’ll sleep better not fitting it then just do the sign and supply it or walk away.

All the points made here are valid, but only you can make that decision…

[Harry Cleary]

quote Phill:

potentially cause long term structural damage

Might happen sooner than you think Phil, I inadvertently closed the vents on my workshop roof and the rot has already started, in less than two yrs. All depends on the insulation and heating below. I woldnt have anything to do with it, unless you talk it over wwith the owner.

[John Childs]

I’ve changed my mind.

It obviously doesn’t sit comfortably with you Phill, so turn the job away.

Sleeping at night is more important.

[Kevin Flowers]

Phil
if he’s adamant to have it at the bigger size, mount additional ali box section on the rear of the signbox but inline with internal signbox supports to creat an air gap & ask him to provide a letter of approval for the larger signbox from the landlord. That way you look as to give him what he wants, but in reality the landlord will probably refuse the larger signbox. Worse case if he agrees it, the additional ali box supports will cure any venting issues& price it as a special install.

Kev

[Dave Bruce]

I was going to say same as Kevin, add spacers behind the sign to create an airgap, even if it is angled slightly(pointing down to the pavement).

Best of luck

Dave

[Shane Drew]

I’d certainly add spacers to the sign Phil, if there was not any other way around it, but having said that, I would involve the authorities in the decision. Clearly this man is not going to listen to you, and the local authority may have a better way of explaining to this man that he is being stupid in his approach. Vents are there for a reason after all.

If you don’t want to open any can of worms, I’d be walking from the whole process. End of the day, in a court, when you are being sued for obstructing a vent that has caused some serious damage, your agument that you told him it would happen, but went ahead with the job anyway, will not wash with the judge.

I’d certainly check your public liability insurance covered you in the worse scenario, as a minimum.

Hope you get it sorted mate

[Phill Fenton]

I phond the guy first thing this morning – he was out and his wife answered. I explained that I was not prepared to fit the sign if it meant covering up the vents. I explained the reason for my concerns to her and cited the example of my house extension. She seemed much more sensible and agreed with me. Said she would phone her husband and call me straight back. That was first thing this morning and I haven’t heard back. However, my conscience is clear :).

[Marcella Ross]

You’ve done the right thing Phill. If nothing else the guy will see that you’re sensible *hair* and professional.

[Peter Normington]

quote Marcella:

You’ve done the right thing Phill. If nothing else the guy will see that you’re sensible *hair* and professional.

The guy wont even notice, but if you are happy about loosing a customer thats fine, I bet in a few weeks time the sign will be as he wants it, and someone else will have the profit in his pocket.
but at least you can sleep easy Phil,

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

You’re right Peter – But I’ll be tempted to speak to the landlord and put him wise about the situation if that happens (I know the landlord and have done signs for him in the past – he also knows that I am supposed to be doing this sign but nothing about the vent business)

[Peter Normington]

If its any compo Phil, I would have done the same as you, But then again I am just a poor honest chap,

Peter

[Harry Cleary]

well done Phil, right choice, I’d have a word with the landlord before he puts the sign up, he sounds like he will give you more work in the future and refer others to you, specially if he knows you will look out for his interests.

[Roy Roffey]

hey Phil,

Just flipping through this i just remembered a similar thing i had a while back regarding vents,

Long story but you could have played it cool like i did and say something like " YES sir, i will fit the sign as you requested, as long as we have a meeting with the owner and the " BUILDING INSPECTOR " for there views on this.

I would put a tenner the customer would s**t it and say, do it your way.

at the end of the day Phil, if you don’t feel you can get anywhere with the customer, don’t waste any more of you time on him and spend your time on customers who will value your experience and knowledge

good luck mate

roffs

[Robert Lambie]

iide have either

walked away….

if fitted, ide have built it out leaving a gap….

if i had my way…
ide have fitted it "just like he asked" then drilled holes all over signs face were the vents are 😉 :lol1:

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Robert Lambie:

if i had my way…
ide have fitted it “just like he asked” then drilled holes all over signs face were the vents are 😉 :lol1:

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

nik

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I would have given the landlord a heads-up.
Maybe the building inspector too, as it definately would not be "to code" to cover up the vents and in addition to make a sign larger than any existing sign on the building as evidenced by that board.
But Providence made the Sensible Wife answer your call…
She will probably give Hubby an earful and things should work out right.
love….jill
:nagnag:

[Neil Churchman]

Your relationship with the landlord is most important here.

Most of my signage installations are done on behalf of a landlord
but at the request and sometimes direction of a tenant, and frequently
I find myself having to act in the best interests of the landlord.

Once the landlord gets involved, the tenant will probably be told
to reduce the size of the sign, you will still get the job, and get maximum
‘brownie points’ from the landlord, who will no doult want to use you
in future.

best of luck

Neil

[Phill Fenton]

quote Jill Marie Welsh:

But Providence made the Sensible Wife answer your call…
She will probably give Hubby an earful and things should work out right.
love….jill
:nagnag:

You’re right Jill – she talked some sense into him and has finally agreed to keep the size limited to the board and not to cover up any vents 😀

[John Childs]

Glad it all worked out for you Phill. 😀

PS. Played Odessa again last night. 😀

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Never underestimate the power of a Sensible Wife.
😀
love….jill

[Phill Fenton]

quote John Childs:

Glad it all worked out for you Phill. 😀

PS. Played Odessa again last night. 😀

Yes I have also been playing my old Odessa album again. I’d forgotten how good "Lamplight" was. Must get a CD copy as the vinyl version I have sounds quite "muddy" these days 😀

[John Singh]

There you go Phill
All turned out well……………….and you can :sleep3:

What about the guys who would do it anyway and not lose any sleep at all

[signworxs]

From what I remember about planning you may find that the area of wood above the shutter (460 x 4800) is the area given "deemed consent" for signs at the planning application stage, meaning that signs erected within that area do not need separate planning consent, however signs that exceed those dimentions would need plannind permision. I know its resolved now but somthing to remember if it crops up again.