NeilRoss
Forum Replies Created
-
Hmmm. Anyone else think the kerning is slightly out either side of the T? 😬🤣
-
We used to use screen inks for spraying plastics. I think it was Sericol Polyplast we used for Fomex. Worked a treat.
-
Is it definitely stainless? Difficult to see properly from the photo but it looks like anodised aluminium.
-
It happens …
-
Create two toolpaths on the same profile line.
First one using a V bit set to (say) 1mm deep ON the line.
Second one using a straight mill bit (up cutting should be OK) and set it to cut OUTSIDE the line to the required depth of your material (plus 1mm if you have a spoil board).
This should give you a clean edge with a chamfered edge.
You’ll need to carry out trials to determine the best speeds for the materials you’re milling. Try on a test panel around 10mm sec travel at perhaps 18,000 RPM cutter and adjust as required until you get the best result.
-
I’d guess they got somebody to wrap it professionally and then decided to stick the letters on themselves when they got it back.
-
If you want to keep it authentic then perhaps use hard wax. 1.5mm deep is fairly deep for that size of the lettering so should stand up fairly well to polishing. Pantograph Services sell it. pantograph.co.uk
See attached PDF Download below
-
Nice work, as always Neil. I like the traditional look of Rob’s Barber Shop. Makes me feel like digging out the brushes again.
-
Man man! That truely is rubbish. I’ve never wrapped anything more than a christmas parcel, but I would sooner poke my eye out than present that to a customer. That’s pitiful!
-
All the best to you Duncan. Changing times all over the world! Even if you have a drop in turnover (which may not be the case) you’ll save a bomb on overheads and it’ll only be a short walk home after a day’s work. What more could you ask for. 😀
-
quote David Stevenson:Cheers Michael, Looking at a few machines and trying to get our head around prices. Trying to decide if the extra cost for auto tool change and an oscillating knife is worth the extra cost. Would want dust extraction for definite. Price seems to vary between £8000 and £30000. Can we justify the extra cost for the more expensive machine when we’re only new to CNC? Hard to know.
If you expect to be engraving large pocket areas that need sharply defined corners then I’d certainly recommend auto tool changer. So you would set the toolpaths – 1 to take out the bulk of material within the pocket and then change to tool 2 (at some stage in the job) to clean up the edge and give you sharp corners.
-
You can also use a router and a straight edge to guide it. That should give you a pretty good edge. Sand and polish the edge if need be, or ideally flame polish the edge. Take extra care at the beginning and end of the cut in case of chipping the corners.
-
Perhaps random sizes too?
-
Like Hugh says… or how about you try slightly rotating each of them?
-
Currently there has been around 220,000 confirmed cases worldwide with just under 9,000 deaths. That’s around 4% mortality.
-
My first thought would be back lit GRP, but could be expensive due to making the moulds. Or perhaps HDU foam board and hand shape it and spray paint?
-
quote Kevin Mahoney:Agree but we’re a small island & a swab & test for every inbound passenger before being allowed to board a flight or ferry here will be an awful lot cheaper than what we’re going to have to shell out for the oncoming epidemic & battering to our economy
The government and health advisors want it to spread throughout the community – to an exent – so that the general population build up antibodies which will eventually stop it in its tracks and prevent it becomming an epidemic/pandemic in the future. Unfortunately there is a proportion of the population who will not be able to fight it successfully and it looks like they will pay the price for the rest.
-
I wouldn’t bet too much of the 50mm wide stuff selling well.
-
Amazing! Well done Robert Walker. I thought I knew what to do but had no idea you needed to press so hard – scarey!
-
Looks like Panatrim to me.
-
quote Phill Fenton:quote NeilRoss:Painted a sign for a local joiner – poor fella died a couple of days later!
Some people will do anything to avoid paying the bill :awkward:
Joking aside, I had to wait six months or more for the estate to be settled :awkward:
-
Painted a sign for a local joiner – poor fella died a couple of days later!
-
At this time of year, as long as you can lift a glass high enough there shouldn’t be any problem! :thumbsup:
-
quote Stephen Morriss:The spindle speed and feed rates have a huge impact on how fast you can cut and the type of tooling you can use, if the feed rate is too slow then you have to use single flute cutters because you need a minimum cut per tooth or you just wear the tool from rubbing. So if the tool is spinning at 7000 rpm and the max usable feedrate is 500mm/min that’s 500/7000 = 0.071mm cut per revolution for a single flute cutter, half that for a 2 flute etc.
Look on a few tooling sites and look for recommended chip load for various materials you think you’ll be cutting.I know my home built router struggles to run fast enough for the rpm of the spindle so I can end up burning cutters and causing excessive wear.
Steve
Have you seen SuperPid, Steve? Total control of speed without loss of torque. I’ve been using it for years now and I wouldn’t be without it.
http://www.vhipe.com/product-private/SuperPID-Home.htm
Attachments:
-
GRP as MArtin says – but could be expensiv?
I’ve used Traffolyte in similar wet conditions but black centre would probably fade too much in this case. The acrylic (or similar material) flexible engraving laminate is UV stable and would I think stand up to the salt and you can get it in 3mm thk. I’d expect it to be less costly than the gRP if that’s an issue. Maybe worth considering.
https://www.engraving-supplies.co.uk/la … olase.html -
In our town every year we have bunting and banners strung across the high street. There are permanent fixings on the buildings at each point (professionally installed some years ago). They were used ad hoc by the various community groups, but since the last few years the regional council need to survey them (each year) before permission is issued for their use.
-
quote Robert Lambie:I cant see it being plastic as such, it would go brittle and could easily be kicked and snapped. polycarbonate would be much stronger but still…
We used to make lots of stuff like this many moons ago using solid PVC – use to be called Darvic. A very tough material and at 10mm thick (or even 6mm thk) would be well up to this application. As Hugh says, all you need is a hot wire bender to form sharp bends such as this. Certainly polycarbonate would be stronger, but at the additional cost we never found any need for it and we’ve never had any come back.
-
Looks like it could simply be a strip of 10mm pvc (or similar) – not foam, heat bent to form the angle.
-
Onwards and upwards Duncan. Don’t hang up those brushes just yet.
-
quote James Martin:Thanks Neil
Why didnt I think of that?
Have you used theses clips? Would they hold a large 7 by 4 size Ali comp?
JIm
No, I haven’t used these so couldn’t say. I suppose it depends on how many you use and if you have the composite sheet mounted on backing channels/battens. Windage will probably be your main enemy.
-
Paint or wrap them the same colour as the fence?
-
quote Gordon Smithard:I’ve often wondered if B&Q are affected by this as they use DIY.COM instead of B&Q, it used to be called cybersquatting.
You can’t have an ampersand in a domain name.
-
quote David Stevenson:quote Pane Talev:quote David Stevenson:Has anyone any idea why Coral is so cheap on eBay? Seems a tenner can buy you v12 with a lifetime licence! Sounds suspiciously dodgy to me!
I bought a copy. It was blocked within a month.
Thought I’d chance my arm and ask how they were selling it so cheap. Did not expect this response! If I wanted that I’d download it myself on Pirate Bay.
:yikes:
-
quote Simon Worrall:quote Jamie Wood:Maybe there’s something in the paint that prevents things from sticking.
Im coming across this problem more and more, I heard they are putting additives in the paint to stop dirt from sticking to it. It also affects adhesion of glue, unfortunately.
In Daniel’s case the paint is not properly bonded to the under surface, so it’s doubly problematic.
I would say your only real hope is to screw them in somehow, whether that means using standoffs or just putting some screws right through the letters into the fascia.It may be overkill but, depending on the thickness of the wood you could use locators and counter bore the holes large enough to sink the locator cup into the wood – leaving it just proud of the surface. Seal the holes with paint before fitting the locator cups. The result should look like surface fixing.
-
CorelDraw Graphice Suite would be a good bet I would think. Not free but there’s loads of older versions going cheap on eBay. Even v12 should be able to do everything you need. CorelDraw is vector based which should satisfy your cutting path requirement and the suite also includes Corel PhotoPaint for the raster based artwork. Worthwhile looking into.
-
quote Daniel Evans:Hi Neil
I did consider this but the client doesn’t want that look.
May be worth explaining that to the cliet and offering a backing board (at additional cost) as a long term solution?
-
Daniel – have you considered using stand off locators? The weakest link here, over time, is the adhesion of the paint to the wood. If (and when) that begins to peel it will make no difference what tape you use, the letters will fall off as the paint fails and release.
-
quote Kevin Busby:I don’t use it but Inkscape is very useful for vector work and free, I would be surprised if you could not enter a cut line with it as well.
There’s also a plugin/bolt-on for Inkscape called InkCut that does just what it sounds like you’re looking for – free as well. well worth looking up
InkCut -
quote Phill Fenton:Would you believe it…I’ve just been sent the artwork for the 15 vans…
I hate to think what you were searching for when you found that photo, Phill! :shocked:
-
James. You could try these folk. I don’t see Whistler on their website, but they have it on their price list so may be worthwhile speaking to them.
Stuart R. Stevenson price list.Neil
-
Just stop wearing the silk underwear guys! 😆
-
I’d call Cadlink. I’ve always found them to be very helpful in cases like this.
Neil
-
As Martin says …
You could make one from 19mm ply (marine ply for exterior use) with a flush oak frame, mitered at the corners and wide enough for the inside edge to be covered by the plaque. You can route an ogee or chamfer edge along the oak for appearance sake. Glued and screwed from the sides into the ply and with corners glued and pinned and the entire well sealed. If you want a wider return edge then make the oak framing thicker and let it project out the back.
Neil
-
George, it’s character encoding that controls what characters are output for each key. Not to be confused with different fonts. It sounds like you have changed the default encoding for the system or you have opened a drawing which was originally created using a different encoding.
Here’s a page that may help you reset it to unicode.
Corel.com helpNeil
-
Whatever you decide to use, test it on an area as far out of sight as possible. It’s very likely that the old paint will be incompatible with any solvent based lacquer or varnish and you could end up destroying it rather than conserving it. If they are to be stored inside, then water based acrylic may be your best bet. Tread carefully.
-
quote Myriam Garrido:Do you know, we did a drawing for an extra long wheel base Iveco van for a local tree stump grinding company. The guy was absolutely insistent that he didn’t want the graphics applied directly to the van but to alupanel and this screwed/riveted to the vehicle All the way around (about 500mm high !)
Of course we spent a considerable length of time telling him THE most obvious reason for us not to do this however no amount of rationalisation or common sense would prevail despite serious frowning behind painful disbelief.
So as requested we riveted black, signed alupanel all the way around the van even folding it around the rear corners.
As I sit here typing this I cringe with guilt fueled laughter and bemusement at the thought of when the guy took all the signs off ! A mobile sieve.
Some people can’t be helped
From a safety point of view, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable using a composite material on a vehicle. Just saying …
-
quote Kevin Mahoney:These are the same people who spend 30 seconds pulling on a door that says push. Had one a few years ago who brought in a toughened glass hanging sign for lettering. That on its own made me a little uncomfortable but I was the asked to do an elaborate letter B on both sides of a clear piece of glass that was to be visible from both sides & both sides were to be the right way round. No amount of explaining would convince him that it wouldn’t work, he had a picture in his head & thought I was being difficult. His restaurant is still there today & funnily enough, a very large bracket with no sign
LOL that one really did make me laugh out loud! 😆
-
quote Phill Fenton:Again a similar thing happened to me but on this occasion it was the shop owner that phoned me up to complain that the arrow was pointing in the wrong direction on the double sided A board I had made for her.
Is it pointing in the wrong direction on both sides I asked?
She thought for a moment then said.. err yes…
Turn the sign around then I said… :rollseyes:
I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of some people :awkward:
Yes, I’ve had that response for double sided pavement boards. I think they visualise the sign from one direction only and when they see it from the other side they just don’t try to work it out.
-
A few years ago a guy came in looking for two HONDA decals to go on each side of the fuel tank on a Honda trike he’d been doing up. Came back in to collect and take them away. Later in the day he called in to say one of them was cut wrong when he put them on – could I make another one for him. "On one side, the H is next to the handle bars but on the other side the A is next to the handle bars".
Well …. yes … ?
To be fair I think he must have been illiterate and was going by shapes instead of reading left – right. -
Would using a slip sheet be practical?
-
quote Steff Davison:quote NeilRoss:quote Greg McCarthy:I used to work for Gravograph.
They are the best for engraving machines by far but are expensive.
Ive had a LS100 EX for the past 7 years and its a beast.
HPC Ive found customer service was poor for materials so would not buy a laser from them, in my opinion, but that might of changed.
Trotec lasers are decent too.
Id suggest only looking at lasers with U.S laser sources in. No glass tubes etc.Greg – I’m not in the market for a laser engraver, but just out of interest, what is used in place of glass tubes?
Western machines use metal tubes, Trotec a heat sealed ceramic tube.
Thanks, Steff. That’s interesting.
-
quote Greg McCarthy:I used to work for Gravograph.
They are the best for engraving machines by far but are expensive.
Ive had a LS100 EX for the past 7 years and its a beast.
HPC Ive found customer service was poor for materials so would not buy a laser from them, in my opinion, but that might of changed.
Trotec lasers are decent too.
Id suggest only looking at lasers with U.S laser sources in. No glass tubes etc.Greg – I’m not in the market for a laser engraver, but just out of interest, what is used in place of glass tubes?
-
Well done Colin. An admirable sentiment!
-
quote Phill Fenton:Of the two, the Goliath seems to me to be the one most likely to succeed. The problems already mentioned (swarth causing slippage of the wheels – and would the wheels have enough grip anyway?) appear to have been addressed by the use of sensors to accurately sense it’s position and to auto correct for any anomalies that may occur causing the robot to go off course?
As an alternative, what about a version with a laser cutter instead as this would avoid any drag to cause the cutter to go off course?
And no swarf either.
-
quote Phil P Davies:Be handy for installing a sunroof in a car without the owner knowing about it….
Now that’s what I call lateral thinking! 😆
-
Good stuff Michael.
-
It’s difficult to see in the photo but it looks like the core isn’t cut very clean either. It looks a little lumpy? Perhaps the wrong type of cutter, intended for drilling, so only the bottom edges will be sharpened to cut? If it *IS* the proper cutter for the job perhaps it’s a duff cutter. I’ve never had one but I suppose it’s not impossible. I’d phone ITC and ask to chat to somebody technical about it.
I’d think even if it was cheap material, if cutting in two passes with the first cut just through the metal layer, it would still cut a lot better than the example in the photo.
-
The cut looks very rough to me as if the cutter is blunt. Is it a tungsten carbide cutter mill?
If the example in the photo was cut in a clockwise direction, it looks as if the cutter may not be clearing the swarf quickly enough and is pushing swarf in front of the cutter which, when being expelled upward is lifting the the metal lamination before the cutter can complete the 180 deg rotation. A bit like a pressure wave.
What like is the cut on the other piece (the waste part)?
-
Have you tried slowing the travel speed?
Are you cutting through in one pass?
Have you tried a two pass with the first pass just through the metal layer?
Have you tried a down cutting spiral?Just few things I’d be thinking off.
-
Nice one Neil. Nice clean job with all the pointing to contend with.
-
Put your company name in watermark diagonally across the artwork until you’ve been suitably recompensed. After so many years in the business I think you get a ‘nose’ for clients that are likely to do the rounds using your artwork, and I’ve done this many times in these cases. If they have any conscience at all they won’t hawk it around, and any other sign business they present it to can’t honestly overlook the situation.
-
quote Simon Worrall:From their point of view we could just be a scammer that is pretending to be a signwriter!
LOL. There’s probably some of those around too! :shocked:
-
Is it CMYK colour set in Corel, and You’re printing in RGB, or vice versa?
-
I can’t check at the moment but Universe family have the tapered strokes where they meet at acute angles.
-
Asbestos sheet/cement board is pretty safe and the lowest level of hazard where asbestos is concerned as long as it’s left in that form. Having said that I wouldn’t want to drill or saw it as that would release dust particles into the air.
I can’t see what harm a good modern adhesive would have on it, but you might find it difficult to achieve a long term fix without thoroughly cleaning the original surface. So you’re back to the problem of releasing particles into the air :awkward:
Some folk say to run water over the surface when you’re working on it to keep the dust down, but what happens to the dust when it dries?… Horrible stuff.
By the way, I understand they pretty much stopped using asbestos in the mid 80s, so if the building you’re referring to was built more recent than that, it may not be asbestos at all.
-
I’d have stuck a couple of boards under the (short) leg, but I suppose this is frowned upon these days. :rollseyes:
-
You could also consider using larger diameter steel poles. We’ve used 200mm dia steel poles for very large signs. Concrete bases – formed as trenches at 90 deg to the face of the sign. You could throw some re-bar in there too to make sure.
It also depends on what material you are using for the sign panels and how thick. And also what type/size of backing rails and how you fix them to the sign panels.
-
quote Robert Lambie:Even cheap vinyl wont shrink that much…
/snip …
The problem is down to “Out-Gassing” of the ink!
Look at how the vinyl has bunched around the black fixing. the laminate is bunched around the south west side of the fixing showing that the shrinkage pull is from south west towards north east direction.
With this in mind, look now at the black ghost shadow text, the shadow is implying the movement in the same direction.Why does this make me think of Basil Rathbone …. :praiseyou:
-
Unbelievable! Civil disobedience may not be far away!
-
If it’s a smooth cork surface, you could try spraying the surface with a clear matt lacquer (you can get it in rattle cans) to seal the surface. It may be that the vinyl will then stick to the surface.
-
A heart warming story Denise. Excellent result! Well done to yourselves and the others.
-
I have to say I’m with Phill on this. A huge over reaction!
As I understand GDPR, the main issue is the gathering, storage and/or propagation of personal information, that could be used to identify an *individual*. I could be wrong of course as my head’s still spinning from reading up on it.
Also it’s no longer legal to assume that it’s OK to let folk OPT OUT. It’s now the case that they need to choose to OPT IN in the first place.
However, only this week I’ve read in the press that it’s possibly going to be that case for human organ donation, that you will need to OPT OUT.
I’m confused … it’s probably an age thing … If anybody has a spare brain going free, I’m OPTING IN! 😆
-
I’ve made them in both magnetic sheet and composite. Both have been successful for each customer. I’d agree with Hugh that the magnetic ones are fairly fragile, but I have customers who are careful with them and they last them years. The composite ones I’ve made seem to satisfy the customer too as they have been back a number of times for additional (different ones). Much depends on how you apply the spray over the composite. Best done with a number of fairly dry coats to dust the paint on rather than flood it on.
Neil
-
Would it have anything to do with applying an outline *and* a fill in CorelDraw? I know this sort of thing used to be a problem. The solution was to use *either* an outline *or* a fill in the original graphics, but not both. Maybe worth a test.
Neil
-
Nice Job Neil :thumbsup:
-
quote Hugh Potter:quote Simon Worrall:Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:
Apostrophe’s ? 😆
That apostrophe’s wrong! 😆
-
quote Kevin Flowers:On the same idea as Neil you can get universal exhaust bracket which will fit that size tube and is made of a stronger still
That’s much better Kevin. It’s what I had in mind but couldn’t think what to call them. Much stronger and vandal resistant. Keeps the panel centred on the tube(s) too so makes a tidier job.
-
I’d look at cable/conduit clips. Will depend on the railing diameter but worth a search. These come in up to 31mm dia
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/0623805/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Cables_And_Wires-_-Cable_Accessories_And_Ties_And_Tools%7CCable_Clips_And_Clamps-_-PRODUCT+GROUP&matchtype=&gclid=CjwKCAjwiPbWBRBtEiwAJakcpEC4TlmexadNwSda91KG7A0Cq7Y2nKfeRSJrof8tRqMlWM21CV8BnBoCN0sQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds -
quote Philip Houston:You can use a 1m ruler and a couple of magnets to create a level line to measure from.
I use this method all the time.I’ve used a strip of magnetic vinyl as a straight edge/datum in the past. Cut to 70mm or so wide.
-
quote Phill Fenton:/snip/
I would have thought that sticking vinyl prints onto a wall would represent no greater a risk than painting or wall papering said corridor?Anyone else had issues with internal signage?
I would have thought the same Phill. Out of interest, what do they use in the Underground signage?
-
quote Katie Asken:Hi Jean,
Signs Of The Times do cast signage. Maybe they can help – although I’d be a bit weary about brass being used on a boat as not really suitable for external use use.
Katie
Why would brass not be suitable for external use?
-
Nice work Brian. It’s good to see the craft being kept alive.
-
Can’t help, but it looks to me that that letter ‘t’ may have been stylised. To me, it just doesn’t match the architecture of the other letters.
-
Cartesian coordinates – x, y, z.
x = across (width)
y = height
z = depthI’ve always understood that x is expressed first, followed by y and finally z (if 3D). So if the height/width words were left out, that’s how I would interpret it. But when producing spec for clients I always use ‘width/height’ e.g. 500mm wide x 300mm high so there is no misunderstanding.
I can understand Phill’s explanation, as it comes off the printer, but that too could be confusing – I’d go with specifying the dimensions as they will be when the sign/banner is installed.
-
Haven’t come across it by name but, is it not a just brand of flexible engraving laminate?
-
Lots of nice stuff there, Neil.
-
We used to use these too but not for years as we don’t do that sort of thing now. They are called PANALOCKs and I think we got them from Universal Components (Universal Aluminium Systems). I imagine the Panatrim suppliers will have them or could point you in the right direction. If you’re stuck we should have some hiding away on a shelf somewhere.
-
Good video!
What I’m amazed at is how it manages to keep the edge straight with, seemingly, very little guidance or control from the operator. Magic!
-
quote Brian Little:Thanks neil I like that one shot gold nearest product I’ve used to gold leaf in my opinion
I’ve got a couple of tins of it sitting there but never actually used it on a proper job. How well does it last over time?
-
Nice clean job Brian!
-
Option #1 obviously if you want to retain your good rep.
-
Nice work Simon. Good luck with the new enterprise! :thumbsup:
-
Glenn – looks like it is possible.
https://uk.godaddy.com/help/setting-glo … front-3886Neil
-
quote Martin Pearson:quote Phill Fenton:Not worth worrying or getting upset about. Anyone under pricing to that extent won’t remain in business very long. Busy fools…
While it doesn’t bother me Phill the problem with people under pricing, being busy fools & going out of business quickly is that there is always another one waiting to take over from them 😆 😆 😆
Too true!
-
quote Michael Egan:I’ve used these from mastergrave….
http://www.mastergrave.co.uk/catalogue/ … ory_ID=262
Thanks Michael. I did come across these a while ago. I thought they were fairly expensive for what I need – often for temporary use. A simple flat bar bent at 45 deg and painted/stoved would be sufficient and hopefully a good bit cheaper.
Neil
-
quote Phill Fenton:They still expect a small business working from home to pay their licence fee. It’s legalised extortion.
Phill, when they first began calling me, perhaps eight or ten years ago their main argument was that customers wold hear it. Is it still that way or do they include staff nowadays?
Neil
-
quote Phill Fenton:This is a not uncommon problem with stand off lettering – particularly when drilling into a roughcast wall where the drill will not always follow it’s intended path and ends up being out by a few mm which puts a lot of stain on the cups and studs when the lettering is pushed into place – in some cases this is enough to cause the stud to break it’s bond on the back of the letter, at the very least the letters end up miss-aligned. The answer I believe is an adjustable cup that can be adjusted once it is screwed into place. I have been experimenting with this very solution and have come up with this:-
https://www.shapeways.com/product/Y46A5 … -inventory
I’ve never had to realign one – perhaps just lucky, but this is exactly what I thought should be on the market when I read Denise’s post. Grab your patent now!
-
I suppose it depends what the locators are glued onto the back of the letters with, but if they can be removed then that’s the way I’d go.
Remove the studs. Then put a bead of BlueTac on the heads of new locators and place them in the cups (already screwed to the signboard) but not as deep as they click in.
Next run a line of tape (probably electrical insulating tape or low tack tape) across the front of the existing letters with the bottom edge where the text baseline should be.
Offer the letter up in place a press against the studs – remove the letter – mark around the stud heads on the back of the letter. Clean and glue on. Replace the letter.
All depends on if the existing studs can be removed.
-
quote Phill Fenton:After a gap of a few years, I have once again been phoned by PPL in an attempt to get me to pay a music license for my business.
Despite the fact I don’t play music they continued to harass me on a daily basis a few years ago. This only stopped when I registered my telephone number with the TPS (Telephone preference agency) and lodged complaints.
When they called again today I told them I wasn’t interested in their call and hung up straight away. I have since registered another complaint about them to TPS.
They’re probably targeting our industry again just now so I suggest if you get a phonecall from them you take the same course of action as I have done.
Seconded!
-
Meters/metres ?
