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Favourite "Top Tips" for signmakers
I thought it might be useful to start a thread of favourite tips to pass on. Over the years I have picked up many valuable suggestions from UKSB and thought it might be useful to re-cap/place everyones favourite suggestions in one place.
Don’t worry if you think everyone already knows all about your “top tip” – there will be many that haven’t come across it before and will appreciate your suggestions. I’m a great believer in “we don’t know what we don’t know” so put your suggestions down however, trivial or unimportant they may seem to you.
I’ll kick it off with the best tip I have ever come across and that was to use a wall paper stripper to remove vinyl from vehicles and metal or composite panels. But don’t try it on plastic panels – they’ll warp.
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88 Replies
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Measure twice, cut once!
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Not a tip, but an adage I thought very true.
"It’s strange how much you need to know until you know how little you know"
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Use magnets to Hold the vinyl against a car/van to get position mark with tape then apply !
Makes life much easier 🙂Do not apply vinyl text wet, always easier dry with above method , a line at a time if need be , faster and a better finish.
Use a ruler with a knife guard when cutting boards , save your fingers.
Dont try and put up 10ft sign panels on your own on windy days on tall ladders life is too short lol ( had some scary moments )
Best tip of all is BE NICE TO CUSTOMERS !!! I have seen companies come and go and taken over customers because they have been ignored or do not like the bad manners of another company ..
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Cut vinyl with weed boarders around the text, apply the application tape, and then trim out to the weed boarder, it’s soooo much easier to align & install with nice square bits, rather than wibly wobbly edges. :thumbsup:
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If your trying to apply app tape to a small bit of cut lettering turn the app tape upside down on the bench sticky side up and put the cut lettering onto it, much easier than applying the right way.
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A sharp Stanley window scraper (yellow handle) & some soapy water will have a window stripped in minutes by shaving it off with a half-pass and a lot of commitment (not jabbing at it).
Often get customers who’ve spent hours picking away at ancient, welded on vinyl left drop-jawed by the “skoosh, skoosh…shave, shave, shave…wee buff up with IPA…done”
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SPELL CHECKER
believe it or not this went up outside our unit today
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I’ll go for an oldie on this…
Don’t eat yellow snow 😀
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quote Derek Heron:SPELL CHECKERbelieve it or not this went up outside our unit today
Proud of it, are we mate? Lol [emoji1]
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quote Robert Lambie:quote Derek Heron:SPELL CHECKER
believe it or not this went up outside our unit today
Proud of it, are we mate? Lol [emoji1]
haha i have done worse :blushing:
i asked them to change it and it took three of them reading it before they realized.
i try to use spell checker all the time now as a habit.Derek
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quote Derek Heron:i try to use spell checker all the time now as a habit.Derek
I presume you mean Hobbit :awkward:
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quote Derek Heron:haha i have done worse :blushing:
i asked them to change it and it took three of them reading it before they realized.
i try to use spell checker all the time now as a habit.
DerekI even looked at it thinking "whats up with it?" :awkward: 😆
I was more annoyed "Traffic Under" was not in one line.
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Take a small piece of vinyl and test an internal painted wall before cutting and trying to apply a decal…….
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If you are trying to apply graphics to a van which is hard to get a straight edge on… on the bonnet and rear doors, You can run a string across the tops of both to give a floating straight edge to measure up or down from. A chinagraph pencil always comes in handy too!
Drilling boards, quick and easy way to mark holes is to use masking tape and place on the very edge, both horizontal and vertically and then drill in the corner. -
If the client specifies fitting next Friday, confirm whether they mean this Friday (which is technically next one) or next friday hey Phil.
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Great tip Daniel :blushing:
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Not so much a tip, but more a simple bit of advice…
Work clean. Work tidy.
Sounds like such an obvious thing I know, but it’s amazing how people don’t stick to this.
I am notoriously untidy and do tend to make a mess when doing most things (as my wife likes to point out)! However in the past 12 months I’ve made a conscious effort to work clean and tidy, keeping a clean work area both in the workshop and on-site, binning things as I go, sticking to the task at hand, and clearing up before moving on to the next job. And I must say, there has been a noticeable increase in productivity since doing so. Quality of work has improved, pace of work seems to have improved (strangely!) but most importantly (in my humble opinion) the jobs have become less stressful and more enjoyable to work on working in a clean and tidy environment.Just a little thing but it’s certainly helped me!
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Weed letters from right to left and numbers from left to right
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MMMMmmmmm you writing another book phil? :smiles:
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build sign tray frames in workshop transport inside tray have holes pre drilled and centre line marked have a hole dead centre top fix that first drop on spirit level and away you go :thumbsup:
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Just something else I’ve found is that freshly cut vinyl is a lot easier to weed that vinyl which has been cut and left.
I’ve often cut stuff before 5pm, left it flat on the table overnight to weed in the morning and it is definitely more prone to "sticking" together than freshly cut vinyl (maybe something to do with adhesive ‘bonding’ back together?!)
Might be something I’m doing wrong but I find it a lot easier to weed freshly cut vinyl!
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Not so much an application tip but in general we have found ways to cram more work into the week. For example if there is a banner needed for Tuesday and one for Friday they both go down at the same time. Even down to the t-shirt flex, all black gets cut for the jobs that day and the next, then the white goes in etc.. till all jobs on list are complete. A few years ago we were doing about a 5th of what we do now and I know then I thought we would need to take someone on.. but am still plodding on alone.
Another big saver is subbing artwork re-draws out. Saves a heap of time. Normally back with 24hrs.. and we get charged £6. (David recommend a good company on another thread, not sure what the deal is with name dropping companies though)
Taping up.. I’ve always been taught to line the edge of the tape your using to the flats of the letters. In "Taping" the t and n should be perfectly in line. Saves time trimming, measuring out etc..
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over the years i have learned to listen the customers! Even when they are not right… 🙂 talk to them, try them to understand their mistakes, if you can, and then do your thing with their improvement. Every project must be like a "soul mate" for each customer! Talk with them for the shapes, talk with them for the fonts, explain them, convinced them its the best solution! In most of the cases this will bring you back other happy customers! And more money of course :smiles: ! When i was involved with the business, i had to ask so many questions, and the tip top i got was you will see 😆 !!! How we gonna do this or that ??? Relax you will see :smiles: Its a great job guys! Doing so many unique projects … Smiles of a happy customers! You can always see the results of your job in the end! i miss the job…i think i was really good in making 3D shapes and letters … just to twist them, to see their lines a good, check the angles 🙂 you all know what i mean…so life goes on, have a nice day everyone!!!
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Do what dentists do when taking x-rays…( i.e. stand outside the room ) whenever anybody starts fiddling with your cnc router electronics, just in case there’s an explosion or something…
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quote Phill Fenton:Do what dentists do when taking x-rays…( i.e. stand outside the room ) whenever anybody starts fiddling with your cnc router electronics, just in case there’s an explosion or something…
😆 😆 😆 😆
:blushing:
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Leave cut vinyl in the fridge overnight, the vinyl shrinks and you’ll be able to see the outline better……
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quote Simon Worrall:Measure twice, cut once!or like me measure 4 times cut once :bangshead:
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If installing stainless steel lettering with welded studs and locating nuts, buy a little ratchet spanner like the attached. Makes the job much easier.
John
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quote John Hughes:If installing stainless steel lettering with welded studs and locating nuts, buy a little ratchet spanner like the attached. Makes the job much easier.John
Where from please John? Every time I fit these types of letters I say why has no sign fitter gone on to engineer something to make this job easier?
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you should have a local snap on tools supplier they have them :thumbsup:
derek -
Re-cycle your application tape.
Roll them into balls, they make great fire lighters.
Merry Christmas everyone…… -
I’m trying that tonight
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If you do a lot of window films: i.e. blocking out with frosted vinyl, Invest in an old fashioned scale rule – looks like a foot long Toblerone – when it comes to trimming the edges, slam this up against the window frame, put pressure on the edge that’s sticking up and it provides a solid straight line to run a scalpel down to trim the excess vinyl. Discovered this myself after searching for a straight edge and this was all that was available…
Oh yeah, it’s quite good for scaling up architects drawings too… -
Keep strips of vinyl in a sealed tub in the van for emergency fixes. Good selection of colours will dig you out of a hole for patches, repairs or sealing joins when out on a job miles from home.
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When I prepare vehicle graphics for the next day they used to curl and ripple over night, especially during winter. Now I put them on a clean flat surface and lay sheets of aluminium comp over them. Stops the moisture getting in and they stay nice and flat.
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If you usually outgas your digital prints by loosely unrolling on the core, instead unroll into two sections so it’s like a scroll with about metre exposed to the air, then throughout the day gradually unwind from the core on to the new roll. This allows all of the print to be exposed to the air at some point. Helpful to have a fan blowing on to it too.
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I have a piece of sheet steel under my cutting Matt and with a few strong magnets it works great for keeping vinyl in place when weeding or laying on to ACM. Also good for repetitive cuts, just set up magnets as a stop.
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Don’t know about you guys, but I’m forever scrounging about for the surface cleaner, blue roll, a heat gun, extension lead, mainly because we have one bottle for the entire building, or it’s been taken on site.
Spent a few quid online and at Ikea, and put together a few of these.
2 in our installation bay, 1 in production, along with paper roll & glove dispenser… so we know where it will be!
Bottles are colour coded for ease, the rail is an IKEA towel rail, glove dispenser from Ebay, used an off cut of 12mm ply, wrapped with vinyl.
Also fitted some automatic extension leads to the walls, so always have power on hand.
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Where did you get the colour coded bottles from, I’ve been wanting some of these for a while
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Got the from here:
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Thanks
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Out of curiosity, I take it you start with red, then yellow and a final wipe down with green? What do you use in all the bottles?
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Nope. Tried to match the colours of the cleaners… but red/yellow/green is a good idea.
Yellow degreaser
Green surface cleaner ii
Red application fluidAll SOTT chemicals, 5l drums, plus they smell really nice.
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Not tried them before, I’ll give them a go
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I’m Not sure but I think the VINO cleaners from Smith are the same.
Got ours from ATC, not the other company on the scammers thread 😉
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"Cheap labour isn’t skilled. Skilled labour isn’t cheap"
Let your customer know why you charge what you charge. And ALWAYS agree the price and what exactly they are getting for that price before starting work.
It’s so annoying to produce everything only for the customer to say "That’s not what I was expecting". But more your fault, than theirs, for not checking. -
Cheap, fast or good. Pick two.
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You can use a 1m ruler and a couple of magnets to create a level line to measure from.
I use this method all the time.
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quote Philip Houston:You can use a 1m ruler and a couple of magnets to create a level line to measure from.
I use this method all the time.I’ve used a strip of magnetic vinyl as a straight edge/datum in the past. Cut to 70mm or so wide.
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Do not forget to cut around the fuel door when wrapping 😉
I just got a call from a client who is on petrol station and want to refill the car.
Luckily he had a sharp knife in the van.
Nevertheless, I feel embarrassed. :claps:
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quote Pane Talev:Do not forget to cut around the fuel door when wrapping 😉
I just got a call from a client who is on petrol station and want to refill the car.
Luckily he had a sharp knife in the van.
Nevertheless, I feel embarrassed. :claps:
Lol Pane!
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It’s worse when you’ve not cut the lettering on the door join, and they’ve opened the sliding door… So I’ve heard from a friend :blushing:
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Somebody who looked a lot like me did this only yesterday
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quote David Hammond:It’s worse when you’ve not cut the lettering on the door join, and they’ve opened the sliding door… So I’ve heard from a friend :blushing:
I think I know the same friend lol Not me honest!
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It’s surprising how quickly you can learn something new when you really have to.
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When removing/ replacing graphics not originally done by you – do not give fixed quote. Charge by the hour.
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Whilst explaining why you charge per hour, explain in great detail what is involved so they decide to do it themselves :thumbsup:
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Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:
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Don’t do deals on the promise of "loads more vans if this one is cheap"…give them the discount on the LAST van.
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quote DavidRogers:Don’t do deals on the promise of “loads more vans if this one is cheap”…give them the discount on the LAST van.
I like that one :thumbsup:
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Dont let your pets use your work area (especially a ginger cat). Becomes a nightmare when pressing tshirts and laminating. Unless ofcourse your customer requests a nice shimmering of hairs.
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quote Simon Worrall:Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:Apostrophe’s ? 😆
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quote Hugh Potter:quote Simon Worrall:Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:
Apostrophe’s ? 😆
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there should be an Apostrophe in Apostrophe’s.
I think you may have that wrong Hugh lol
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quote Daniel Evans:quote Hugh Potter:quote Simon Worrall:Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:
Apostrophe’s ? 😆
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there should be an Apostrophe in Apostrophe’s.
I think you may have that wrong Hugh lol
apostrophi? apostrophi’s? 😆
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Lol
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quote Hugh Potter:quote Simon Worrall:Put the apostrophes in the right place. :smiles:
Apostrophe’s ? 😆
That apostrophe’s wrong! 😆
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I think Hugh’s got it right. [emoji12][emoji23][emoji12]
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Is is it Hughes got it right?
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:bangshead:
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Buy good application tape! Every so often someone in our office sees a "bargain" and orders some cheap app tape. Causes nothing but problems with vinyl not sticking. Any money saved is wasted on time and grief trying to use it.
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quote David Stevenson:Buy good application tape! Every so often someone in our office sees a “bargain” and orders some cheap app tape. Causes nothing but problems with vinyl not sticking. Any money saved is wasted on time and grief trying to use it.
Second that mate. Sometimes I find that it’s a lot stickier in parts than others.
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Turn away jobs that are dynamic or electric.
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Great thread, here’s a few useful things I’ve picked up over the years:
Quoting:
Itemise the following (or variations of) in your quotes automatically and delete when necessary. It’s easy to forget one of these items when in a rush:
1. Dispatch method/option:
"24hr Courier/Tracked and Signed For." Stop messing around with standard 1st class post and just quote for Courier by default (a tracking number and signature is worth the extra 5 quid for most orders).
"Installation Incl. Travel Time and Consumables." Understandable justification of price.
"Customer Collection." Don’t get stuck with that awkward conversation after the quote has been approved.
"Rush/Priority Charge" or "Service Level Charge". Either itemise it to ensure transparency, or include within the Courier cost. Obviously use at your discretion.
When challenged, try the following objection handling with confidence: "Priority charge puts you at the top of the queue", "Pays for the overtime", "We’ll drop everything else and put you first". Use whatever seems appropriate for the client relationship, but stop losing out because of less organised customers.
2. Delivery address:
Most customers assume we are a mind readers. Didn’t you know this order should be going to the swindon branch? They did mention it in an email (in a different thread, unrelated title, about 17 messages ago). :smiles:
3. Artwork and Site Visits:
Bit of a grey area for some, but these can be small costs redeemable against the job if approved. It’s just enough of a barrier to ensure the customer is genuine and committed.
Manufacturing/Production:
Save all your artwork in Dropbox, that way you can access from home, have a cloud backup and potentially share anything, anywhere, anytime.
Small vinyl letters: Cut a weed box, just weed the middles from the letters first, apply the box and letters to the panel, then peel carrier off, then the weed box off. Keeps the letters from looking like alphabet soup.
Dibond swing sign panel (or projecting sign): You can use standard banner grommets to reinforce the eyelets (a hand eyelet punch is fine).
Shadow board, compartments and drawers: When it’s quiet… 😆 organise and systematise the production environment with agreed definitive locations. Stick to it, but don’t be afraid to improve it. This simple change alone has saved us from so much unnecessary stress and time wasting.
Invoicing and Accounts:
Do yourself a favour and if you haven’t already, transition to a modern, browser based accounting software. Xero is currently the leader in this industry, but there are others out there. Automated chasing is fantastic, your overdue debtors and stress levels will decrease exponentially!
Remind repeat offenders before the invoice is due for payment. I can’t tell you the amount of times this has ironed out the excuses early… before it’s too late.
Get used to sending invoices before the end of the month. If you haven’t unified payment terms across all your customers yet, get those invoices out regardless of delivery date. Start small and work your way up to the bigger boys (if you have a purchase order number, you can usually get the invoice in before the job has even dispatched).
If you find yourself asking; "The accounts show I did 30K in sales last month, so where is all my money then?" you’ll find it tied up in those bigger organisations ‘bankrolling’ off your credit terms.
Hope some of these help!
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Very kool idea
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quote David Hammond:Don’t know about you guys, but I’m forever scrounging about for the surface cleaner, blue roll, a heat gun, extension lead, mainly because we have one bottle for the entire building, or it’s been taken on site.
Spent a few quid online and at Ikea, and put together a few of these.
2 in our installation bay, 1 in production, along with paper roll & glove dispenser… so we know where it will be!
Bottles are colour coded for ease, the rail is an IKEA towel rail, glove dispenser from Ebay, used an off cut of 12mm ply, wrapped with vinyl.
Also fitted some automatic extension leads to the walls, so always have power on hand.
David, I’m gonna nick your idea here looks nice and simple. I’ve actually got some plywood left over from building some stuff, never even thought about wrapping it, it was going in the bin but never got round to it. Do you need to treat it first?
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Just before you apply your graphics, use a Tack Rag or Tack Cloth to remove the invisible dust that rests on the panel.
Makes all the difference to a great installation. -
quote Philip Houston:Just before you apply your graphics, use a Tack Rag or Tack Cloth to remove the invisible dust that rests on the panel.
Makes all the difference to a great installation.Always amazes me Philip how the smallest piece of dirt looks like a mountain after you’ve put vinyl over it!
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Never take on a problem tired. Go to bed. Have a beer. Rest. Come back to the problem fresh in the morning.
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Learned from a place I used to work. ‘There’s never enough time to do a job properly….but there always seems to be enough time to do it twice’
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quote Gordon Smithard:‘There’s never enough time to do a job properly…. but there always seems to be enough time to do it twice’
Good one!
Not my own obviously, but I live by the saying "where there’s a will there’s a way!"
I actually have it about 150mm on the wall in the workshop. :smiles: -
Quote a second budget option, more so with new customers, as they don’t always know what it is they want.
Prevents any other companies under quoting on back of a lesser spec and it shows you’re not entirely about that bottom line figure, which always goes down well.
O and air release vinyl, it changed my world :praiseyou:
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quote Michael Cunney:O and air release vinyl, it changed my world :praiseyou:
Amen to that Michael :bigsmile:
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Some great points in here James
quote James Bateman:few useful things I’ve picked up over the years:Quoting:
Itemise the following (or variations of) in your quotes automatically and delete when necessary. It’s easy to forget one of these items when in a rush:
1. Dispatch method/option:
“24hr Courier/Tracked and Signed For.” Stop messing around with standard 1st class post and just quote for Courier by default (a tracking number and signature is worth the extra 5 quid for most orders).
“Installation Incl. Travel Time and Consumables.” Understandable justification of price.
“Customer Collection.” Don’t get stuck with that awkward conversation after the quote has been approved.
“Rush/Priority Charge” or “Service Level Charge”. Either itemise it to ensure transparency, or include within the Courier cost. Obviously use at your discretion.
When challenged, try the following objection handling with confidence: “Priority charge puts you at the top of the queue”, “Pays for the overtime”, “We’ll drop everything else and put you first”. Use whatever seems appropriate for the client relationship, but stop losing out because of less organised customers.
2. Delivery address:
Most customers assume we are a mind readers. Didn’t you know this order should be going to the swindon branch? They did mention it in an email (in a different thread, unrelated title, about 17 messages ago). :smiles:
3. Artwork and Site Visits:
Bit of a grey area for some, but these can be small costs redeemable against the job if approved. It’s just enough of a barrier to ensure the customer is genuine and committed.
Manufacturing/Production:
Save all your artwork in Dropbox, that way you can access from home, have a cloud backup and potentially share anything, anywhere, anytime.
Small vinyl letters: Cut a weed box, just weed the middles from the letters first, apply the box and letters to the panel, then peel carrier off, then the weed box off. Keeps the letters from looking like alphabet soup.
Dibond swing sign panel (or projecting sign): You can use standard banner grommets to reinforce the eyelets (a hand eyelet punch is fine).
Shadow board, compartments and drawers: When it’s quiet… 😆 organise and systematise the production environment with agreed definitive locations. Stick to it, but don’t be afraid to improve it. This simple change alone has saved us from so much unnecessary stress and time wasting.
Invoicing and Accounts:
Do yourself a favour and if you haven’t already, transition to a modern, browser based accounting software. Xero is currently the leader in this industry, but there are others out there. Automated chasing is fantastic, your overdue debtors and stress levels will decrease exponentially!
Remind repeat offenders before the invoice is due for payment. I can’t tell you the amount of times this has ironed out the excuses early… before it’s too late.
Get used to sending invoices before the end of the month. If you haven’t unified payment terms across all your customers yet, get those invoices out regardless of delivery date. Start small and work your way up to the bigger boys (if you have a purchase order number, you can usually get the invoice in before the job has even dispatched).
If you find yourself asking; “The accounts show I did 30K in sales last month, so where is all my money then?” you’ll find it tied up in those bigger organisations ‘bankrolling’ off your credit terms.
Hope some of these help!
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Deposit, Deposit, DEPOSIT!
I feel like that is all I say to fellow sign makers.
Seriously, sit down and devise a process to deal with enquiries. Incorporating what needs paying and when. When you book an installation in.
It can solve a huge amount of problems.
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Instead of using masking tape to hinge I now use these wrapmags from signgeer on majority of vehicles. Shaves at least 30 mins off a job
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Put the scaffold tower away after you empty the van that night.
It’s always still sitting in the middle of the workshop in the morning (and still is now 😆 ) -
Calibrate your new printer – “pf adjustment”
Today i found out the hard way. 38m laminated vinyl in the bin.
Couldn’t flood the dibond panels. 12mm short on a 1500mm print.
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dont weed tiny text. tape it up with the weed border still in place. fit the vinyl to the sign and THEN weed the tiny text. works every time. 👍
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