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  • Signs and fire risks when fitted internaly

    Posted by Phill Fenton on February 21, 2018 at 9:43 am

    I’ve been involved in a project to supply signs for a public building. The original proposal was to fit a series of foamalux signs in a corridor featuring artwork printed onto vinyl.

    The procurement officer raised some questions about the suitability of Foamalux and it’s fire resistance. I contacted Brett Martin and was given the results of fire testing which I passed on to the procurement officer. This in turn was considered by the fire officer who recommended the signs be fitted but spaced out throughout the building rather than confined to a single corridor where in concentration they could represent a hazard.

    I therefore suggested that the vinyl prints be fitted directly onto the corridor walls rather than use Foamalux backing boards but the procurement officer is reticent maintaining that the vinyl is still a plastic and therefore still represent a hazard and as such the original fire officers recommendation (to spread the signs throughout the building rather than concentrate them in one area) should still apply.

    I would have thought that sticking vinyl prints onto a wall would represent no greater a risk than painting or wall papering said corridor?

    Anyone else had issues with internal signage?

    Robert Lambie Robert Lambie replied 6 years, 1 month ago 8 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • NeilRoss

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 10:34 am
    quote Phill Fenton:

    /snip/
    I would have thought that sticking vinyl prints onto a wall would represent no greater a risk than painting or wall papering said corridor?

    Anyone else had issues with internal signage?

    I would have thought the same Phill. Out of interest, what do they use in the Underground signage?

  • Colin Crabb

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 12:29 pm

    I think due to the forthcoming Hackitt Report, you’ll see more of this – Interim report is focusing on the ‘responsibly person’ – so expect to see a lot more tech sheets requested no matter what media / materials being used… it’s all down to the paperwork being in order for the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 & BRegs compliance.

  • Justin Atkins

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    There doesn’t seem to be much of an alternative substrate to foamex. Branded foam tends to have a B1 fire rating but internal signs are generally not recognised in building regs as they are considered a fixture and fitting.. not a wall covering.
    TfL use vitreous enamel steel signs for the bulk of their underground signs which have excellent fire retardant properties but for individual jobs are restrictively expensive.
    Your suggestion of vinyl direct to the wall would make more sense especially when laminated with an FR laminate.

  • Mike D

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 3:11 pm

    have a look at Trovidur pvc sheet specs

  • Alex Crosbie

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 8:17 pm

    Just looked at the oracal 3651 technical data sheet, it states that when adhered to steel the material is self extinguishing and achieves a class A fire rating.
    My health and safety consultant was really happy when we did our last workplace fire safety plan. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with it unless I’m missing something.

    Alex

  • Phill Fenton

    Member
    February 21, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    I’m with you Alex. It seems to me we have an absurd culture where no one is prepared to accept any kind of risk no matter how small that is. The wall paper and notice boards in the building probably represent a much greater fire risk than my signs ever will. :rollseyes:

    Think I might walk away from this one – let them waste someone else’s time..

  • Alex Crosbie

    Member
    February 22, 2018 at 6:37 am

    They walk amongst us phil 😉

  • David Hammond

    Member
    February 22, 2018 at 8:00 am

    How big are the sign’s we’re talking about?

    If they’re causing all this fuss over an A4 foamex sign 😆

    Had the rep in from Perspex yesterday, I mentioned this new ferrous composite they have.

    Oh yes they sell it, but they can’t cut it.

    Because it’s a steel face it gives off sparks when cutting, they can’t cut it on their saw, incase a spark goes up the extraction system and could cause an explosion with any swarf in the extractor.

    I’m no expert, but the chances of that occurring must quite slim.

  • Phill Fenton

    Member
    February 22, 2018 at 8:57 am

    Hi David – regarding the signs they are each 700mm in dia.

    I suppose if we take this to its logical conclusion we should consider banning all books in public libraries due to the fire risk of all that flammable material stacked closely together on shelves endangering the public. :rollseyes:

  • Justin Atkins

    Member
    February 22, 2018 at 9:31 am
    quote David Hammond:

    How big are the sign’s we’re talking about?

    If they’re causing all this fuss over an A4 foamex sign 😆

    Had the rep in from Perspex yesterday, I mentioned this new ferrous composite they have.

    Oh yes they sell it, but they can’t cut it.

    Because it’s a steel face it gives off sparks when cutting, they can’t cut it on their saw, incase a spark goes up the extraction system and could cause an explosion with any swarf in the extractor.

    I’m no expert, but the chances of that occurring must quite slim.

    The polyethylene core would be the fire issue they would raise with this. You can get a mineral core composite which has a better FR rating.

  • Colin Crabb

    Member
    February 22, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    Sounds like Fire Officer will be referring to BS 5499-10:2014 (Building Regs)

    And don’t start me on Part M (Access to and use of buildings: Approved Document M – Building Regs)

  • Robert Lambie Robert Lambie

    Member
    February 25, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    Offer the signs to be printed to white self adhesive Paper/Wallpaper, applied directly to their wall.

    If these are signs, directional or Health & safety, then there is a necessity for them no matter how they look at it.
    Fine if it is for decor purposes, but if not, moving them around to limit the amount in one area is surely creating an H&S risk in itself.

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