[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for the informative post Rob, some great options there. The mr sheen method is an interesting one.

Its purely a cover up with white, no graphics on it.

The customer phoned and sent through pics yesterday afternoon around 14.00. i put my thinking cap on and would get back to him this morning with a price and a plan to fit in coming days.

8 o’clock last night he sent a message that he has found someone to do the job tomorrow!

Maybe i’m getting slow in my old age 😂.

Thanks again for the reply.

[Martyn Heath]

I do a huge amount of pressing and my opinion is that you need quality, mainly because of how the heat is distributed on the platen. So i recommend buying a good secondhand press if you can find one or a new mid-range if your budget allows.

I currently have a Stahls Hotronix. My press before this was a Secabo.

Both have been very good for me, I do thousands of garments a year
https://www.stahls.co.uk
https://www.secabo.com

[Martyn Heath]

Looks damn cool. How long does it actually take to do transfer a design over to the software?

What are the costs?

It looks very professional and I’m sure customers will love it but it would concern me the extra steps involved to create it, even more so when they start to make changes and want more visuals. Obviously if its being charged for its a different matter. Obviously going to make you stand out from the competition

[Martyn Heath]

definitely not in my opinion

[Martyn Heath]

knowing the level of work you do, and experience with wrap i find it hard to believe its a fitting error on your part. We all make mistakes but there a lot of fails in a short space of time.

I would point towards the sub contractor and or weather/fitting conditions in January

[Martyn Heath]

i will answer my own question, yes it is. 2018 until now are the same spec.

[Martyn Heath]

Well, here she is. All shiny and ready for work. Was relatively pain free, we have got some network problems but running straight from pc it is great. Great quality and substantially smaller than my older model which means more room for dancing.

Now all i need is some work to come in 😬

96yJkQRJ.jpg 146 KB Image File - Click to view

• Copy Download Link

npOc0iSn.jpg 215 KB Image File - Click to view

• Copy Download Link

5flF-ixv.jpg 142 KB Image File - Click to view

• Copy Download Link

[Martyn Heath]

Nice job david

[Martyn Heath]

Hi, no i dont supply anything to fit them with. If they mention it, it can happen or we point them in the right direction.

Banners i explain are short term use, either up and down for many many years or up permanently for 6months -2 yrs depending conditions (wind and direct sunlight)

[Martyn Heath]

i like the concept but i am more of a thong man

[Martyn Heath]

Hi guys, just an update on this. I finally got a chance to get it done. Turned out to be pretty time consuming, 2.5 days fitting and 19m of wrap. Maybe i am just slow? but the cleaning and bodykit seemed to be what surprised me. I ended up fitting horizontally in the body line just below the lions mouth, so in 2 pieces by myself. (the back doors are also done)

I worked out that i would charge around 3k for this job, seems bloody expensive but i dont think people would ever understand the work that goes into it.

Thanks for the advice

[Martyn Heath]

Hi karen, this is not uncommon with frosted. I’m assuming you are laying it wet?

some suggestions are –

less soap

Leave for half an hour or longer before removing tape (some guys even return next day)

soak the outside of the application tape and rub it in with your handle (helps release the glue)

Depending on where you are and conditions, the glass temperature has a lot to do with it.

[Martyn Heath]

Hi simon. I use the same polymeric vinyl i would use on any flat panel vehicle graphics and offer Laminated or unlaminated.

When i first started out i stocked different ranges of vinyl, monomeric, cheaper polymeric, vehicle polymeric but i soon realised theres really not much point. The savings pm was pounds to the customer but then the risk of people judging the stickers after say 2yrs and saying “well they were crap” was high. Its pointless. People worry about the pennies while they are ordering but then a year or so down the line are unhappy with the product because the forget what they purchased.

Before you know it those cheap monomeric stickers they got for the office binder are now on car windows, tools etc etc.

[Martyn Heath]

i like that. Good work. Nice crisp clean design and the colours work really well with the artwork

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for the info guys. I will pull the trigger on the order and find out for myself 👍

[Martyn Heath]

Personally i wouldnt get too involved. Facade company damaged your customers graphics, its upto them to sort out whos paying you to go and sort it out. Zero responsibility for you on a job that was fitted 6yrs ago. I would just wait for your client to order the job from you, then go sort it out and bill them. The nitty gritty blame game is between them.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for the input guys, yes the media restrictions is causing the problems and i like the drop option but the panel joins are very slim (3mm) so im worried that this overlap is not enough.

The horizontal fitting makes most sense and the only option is the crease in the bodywork below the lions mouth as stated, but obviously its a long old piece to fit on the own but i know is doable.

Material wise, as i do so little printed wraps i still have not got a go to media. I have been using Mactac 10700 recently as i can get it by the metre but it is very tacky and hard to work with. Im thinking of using 10700 xr which supposedly has better movability and again by the metre but im also toying with the idea of using arlon slx + which i have been interested in for a while but the roll cost is putting me off along with it sitting on the shelf.

Regarding the plastics rob, aka hawk eyes 🙂 i have tried some plastic refurb liquids but as far have not worked. Maybe the heat gun is the only way but i was warned off this by my local valeter

[Martyn Heath]

Nice job david. One of those that only us in the trade appreciate the complexity, customers dont have a clue. Does the back have a join or was the material wide enough for 1 piece?

[Martyn Heath]

Oracal 3551GRA mid range wrap film. This could be the film that i was supplied, but i believe its polymeric so what does “mid range wrap” really stand for? With all these new films its getting hard know how far to push them

[Martyn Heath]

Just to finish off this post. I completed the van yesterday and the material was “better” than previously used on the lorry (same material) but still more grab than i would expect.

Its was a bit of a challenge as the bottom stripe was supplied in one piece, it had to be laid horizontally because of the crease in the bodywork and wifey was not around but it got done as usual.

Overall very happy with them and an eye catching design.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for the response guys. The truck side was not metal, some sort of composite or fibreglass im guessing which meant magnets could not be used.

Reasoning for some “touching” before appying was that i was maxed out on my ladders on my own, when flipping over to lay the second half the middle saged and touched. Was especially difficult with the guy print as it had to be worked vertically due to the folding door extrusions and graphic was few metres high.

Anyway it got done to a very high standard but as you can imagine when your on your own, tippy toes on a ladder, holding a large print and it touches the body work, normally i would expect a little pull and your back in action.

[Martyn Heath]

Ive had exactly same problems in the past. I now leave mine 72 hrs and its better but not perfect. This is probably then down to profile and fitting temperature

[Martyn Heath]

Hi Pane, i go towards the daft 😁. Im not disagreeing that matt may look better but i think people look at crispness, brightness of colours etc. I never offer matt unless requested and the only jobs i might consider/offer is on internal work.

However maybe your clients/market is different out there.

[Martyn Heath]

I agree with rob, he is bang on as usual. I think the most important thing is having a pair of hands with you to hold the panel as your laying it. Im assuming you would normal do a graphic like this on your own but i feel that i would need an extra person to make it manageable.

[Martyn Heath]

Image perfect polymeric for me. i dont stock monomeric anymore.

[Martyn Heath]

I agree with rob, a day, probably a long day on the first one, say 8-10 hours but after that they should full into place nicely

[Martyn Heath]

+1 for what Kevin said ☝

[Martyn Heath]

I agree david, wages in the uk seem to have gone through the roof in the last 5 years. I notice this especially as i live in the Nordics with the high wage, high tax model but compared to the uk wages are lower now.

10 years ago i left the uk, 15 yrs ago i was employed as an experienced vinyl fitter, sign fitter, computer operator general bod that can do everything. My basic was around 18k + overtime. I then went as a Sub-contractor and running my own little shop and yearly was hitting 25k-30k.

When i return now everyone seems to be on 30k + infact that would be classed as a bad wage amongst the people i know.

So to answer your question, yes we shoud all close up shop and go get a job 🙂

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks chaps 👍

[Martyn Heath]

Nope ive looked through all my stuff nothing comes close enough for a match. Closest i can find (darker) MM64 matt metallic graphite Mactac colourwrap

[Martyn Heath]

how about 3m tape onto the wall, then stick the vinyl onto it. I have some aggresive stuff that comes on sheets and sure that would be a fix. Obviously you would see a slight line where it is underneath depending on the type of mural vinyl but im sure thats not a huge problem. 3m300lse is the sheet number

[Martyn Heath]

Yes a lot of conflicting shops going on with this job. Well i feel that i have a better understanding of the options now and i have put an email together noting the different techniques with different shops and the good and bad just to cover my arse. Going to follow this up with a call to the head office in the big city tomorrow and get them to make the decisions.

As usual, thanks for the help guys much appreciated

[Martyn Heath]

This is another example of a shop they have had done.

Frosted at the bottom and normal at top. Huge difference in colour

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for your feedback guys.

She sent over this internal picture of one that has been done. She said that the shops are all done slightly different altho they should all be the same.

So lower part is either printed frosted or clear lam and im not sure about the top part.

My feeling would be to do the the lower windows one way and the top and solid covering side windows in normal printed vinyl as there is no fade but this would obviously give a very different look.

Rob those 2 examples you posted look like frosted? not clear?

Im guessing frosted or clear could both work. What way would you go with it?

[Martyn Heath]

I use the backing paper from laminate to wrap signs etc. i have 100s of metres and expect you have the same. In this situation that is all i would use. wrap it 3 or 4 times round. If things start to get damaged and they complain then i would offer extra packing at extra cost but i expect its unlikely things would ever get damaged.

[Martyn Heath]

@Simon-Worrall1
I get what you saying.
Why don’t you add a clipping mask to each individual file, then you have a separate file you can tile without leaving gaps.
So, import your pdf to illustrator, add a clipping mask to one of the artworks, save, and then repeat the process with the other artworks.
https://www.adobe.com

[Martyn Heath]

cheers hugh

[Martyn Heath]

“but personally, i think it is bollocks… and more about them upselling.”

😂 totally agree

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks rob, makes a lot of sense. I’m putting it down to temperature which caused the problem which means ideally your looking at 17c+ for this 3m film. Like i said a blast of heat did sort the problem and the graphics are fine but going over everything twice is a pain. I too use the blue monkey strips but have yet to purchase a wheel.

[Martyn Heath]

They appeared when i went over it again. for example the side panel, fit the vinyl, see a few bubbles, hit with squeegee and create more bubbles, basically laying it twice. So a bonding issue.

No bubbles were visible after the second hit. Also a local van which i have inspected since and no problems

[Martyn Heath]

Yep, this is why I dislike wrapping.
Happy at the time but in the coming years or even the lifespan of the vehicle your work is being scrutinized.

[Martyn Heath]

Good attitude to have, another life lesson

[Martyn Heath]

👍👍

[Martyn Heath]

Looks to me to be on glass rear windows of the van as theres no recess

[Martyn Heath]

your actually 100% correct simon. Works been dead this year so ive trimmed some fat off the prices which…………leaves me questioning materials instead of over going on the safe side.

This week it has picked up so hopefully no more low quotes to put food on the table

[Martyn Heath]

lol

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks david. Always nice to hear the inner workings of how you got there. I often question my methods because i too like to lay vinyl over the top of the graphics to make fitting easier and stop distortion/level issues but i know the customer ends up paying for it.

[Martyn Heath]

i’m guessing all the yellow was vinyl laid over the top?

[Martyn Heath]

😂😬😂

[Martyn Heath]

No its not, but under 2 ft space at rear and its no problem. Gained around 800mm space in length which as you know will be taken over by piles of crap in no time

[Martyn Heath]

Sounds like a reasonable innings 👍Guessing you would have changed the head in this time

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks Phill

[Martyn Heath]

was that 11 years from new Jamie?

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks Rob. Yes your right, on larger projects theres a little voice in your head saying “come on girl, just get me through this job”.

😂

[Martyn Heath]

kuopio is local to me. There seems to only be 2 suppliers out here but good suggestion to see if lion framing cater for EU but since brexit its become more and more difficult/expensive to buy anything from uk

[Martyn Heath]

thanks i will check out lion framing. They have popped up on the forums

[Martyn Heath]

Very true. You know you finnish culture well

[Martyn Heath]

Once i get over the shock of spending money i hope i can enjoy it 😂

[Martyn Heath]

Thats been the in thing for some time, in fact i would say that has come to an end now but i might be wrong

[Martyn Heath]

👍

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks david. Running without problems would make my life easier but only time will tell if thats the case.

Getting more work in to make it pay for itself is now my real priority.

Not much should change tho, supposedly a bit faster and better quality prints.

[Martyn Heath]

thanks richard

[Martyn Heath]

having used rapid tac, it is much better in cold conditions than standard water and soap but i now use 1 3rd ipa in my water with a little soap. It does exactly the same thing. Tested upto -5c.

[Martyn Heath]

cheers rob. some good ideas👍

[Martyn Heath]

😂😂

[Martyn Heath]

Thats a hefty job. Nice earner 👍

[Martyn Heath]

you cant go commando out here mate, you end up with icicles hanging from you testicles ❄

[Martyn Heath]

I think all genders are covered with these bad boys mark. Can you send me a link please 🤫

[Martyn Heath]

Agree 100%

[Martyn Heath]

Hi rob, thanks for the reply.

Your correct, i was set on using SLX and for no other reason but timescale (my workload hasnt aloud me to get on this job, and weather rapidly changing) i decided to give the mactac a try having had a sample to compare to SLX. I will say the film had nothing to do with my fitting time, it was as low tack as SLX, easy to move and fitted well.

Yes the wrap stops at the front doors. Both horizontal pieces were 3.7m long, so around 8m per side (16m) and 2 drops for back doors at 1.7m each.

Side pieces we 1100mm and 850mm wide so there was a little waste on the 1370 media.

Now to keep an eye on the job and see how it wears with time to give me a complete picture of the media.

Theres so much that goes into these jobs and i especially under estimate a few parts of the process-

* cleaning- seems to take an age on a large vehicle, getting in all the joins and edges where the vinyl will sit but is probably one of the most important parts of the job to ensure longevity.

* stripping parts off- one door handle, number plate and lights and rear tail light all removed.

*cutting in- the fitting seems to be the quickest part

Like you said, doing these on a regular basis, like anything it becomes second nature. I unfortunatley/fortunatley come accross a job like this maybe once a year so its kinda back to the drawing board every time.

[Martyn Heath]

As mentioned before, you get fulfillment from these types of jobs but in reality you could earn just as much money with more simple jobs and sleep easier at night. Its not like the jobs goes away once its out the door either, wraps have a tendency to rear their head months or years later which is always nice.

I wrapped my firends van a year and half ago, from white to black with graphics over the top, looked bloody good and as near perfect as i can do. Literally 1 year to the day i see him and he said “theres a bubble, what the fuck”, and there she was, a nice half inch bubble that will not go away and as far as the “customer” is concerned, the job is shit. I explained to him that this is not uncommon and if you walk around wrapped vehicles you will pick up on problems on over 50% of them. Temperature changes in summer on black and also -30c in winter also dont help.

[Martyn Heath]

Any live feeds i have seen are at 50 times speed 🙂 which doesnt help much.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks mark. i ended up using the mactac 10700 XR as i can get it local.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks rob. Yes the room is well heated, a constant 18c really. The wall is actually an internal wall with heated rooms behind. So i think we are all in agreement that me cutting the prints too soon is not the cause 😅.

You metioned some good options to solve this but for once i think i am going to accept defeat. Strip it all off and continue with the red painted wall. I’m far from happy with this option as it takes a lot away from the room but i think cladding the wall in dibond is the only option and an option which i cant be arsed to do. Too many things to cut around for my liking and to get it butt perfect is unlikely.

I guess if i was going to have another go, stripping off, PVA the wall and go again would be my next step but i dont believe this is 100% as we still have the board and movement issue.

Maybe i will cover the wall in more memorabilia so theres not much wall left to see 🤔

I suppose its another lesson to be learnt. I agree with the matte finish and gloss is going to add so much more of a surface but i rarely see a gloss wall. I have applied to plasterboard and rendered brick and had no problems in the past but now i know to walk away from chipboard!

[Martyn Heath]

Hi graham, not blaming the film, used it in the past and had no problems. The issue is elsewhere

[Martyn Heath]

No the wall was painted a few years ago

[Martyn Heath]

always keeping my options open 😁

[Martyn Heath]

cool. Yes i am running onyx also, very smooth operation

[Martyn Heath]

ok, interesting. Are you cutting with it aswell or using a plotter side by side? Does hp have its own rip software?

[Martyn Heath]

As your talking about the latex, if i can jump in…. so, if the heads are cheap and easily replaced, there is a mainenance cartridge i believe that gets full and needs replacing….. what else is there that needs to be maintained or can be problematic? maintenance stations? pumps? not sure how different the guts are compared to a solvent.

[Martyn Heath]

thanks rob

[Martyn Heath]

i am running an old mutoh 1614 which your unable to get the slx profile for. I use avery 1105 for my wrap materials and yes i think this affects how the vinyl performs.

I leave my prints for 72hrs before laminating

[Martyn Heath]

+1 for what david said. Its the spot colour name that makes it a cut line and everyone tends to use the magenta

[Martyn Heath]

“SLX+ is a slightly higher initial tack or has a faster bonding time than standard SLX.”

Hi Rob,
this is exactly my thoughts as well, and saying that it would be more practical to use especially as you rarely in a temperature-controlled 18c workshop to fit the jobs.

Funny you mentioned the part roll, This is exactly why I am looking at SLX+ as I can get a 15m bundle from Ireland “Walsh graphics”. This is not available out here in Finland, my wrap options are avery and 3m which are full rolls and pricey. Another option is Mactac JT 10700 xr which I can get by the metre but I’m still undecided on how good the film is as people rarely seem to use it.

My thoughts were that SLX is a household name.

This is for my own van btw.

[Martyn Heath]

I havnt used the film yet hugh but looking at placing an order. I thought it was near impossible to have less grab than the standard slx?

[Martyn Heath]

Hostile environment? you should try putting M7 in the same house as my wife, be lucky to see the end of the week without cracks showing 😬

[Martyn Heath]

With the wiper, vw badge and no plate area thats a tricky one. Good job

[Martyn Heath]

100% agree rob, i think thats why we see so many failures out there

[Martyn Heath]

Hi David, thanks for your comments. Yes i have seen your posts regarding your roland troubles and i think you have hit the nail on the head. The materials may have the all the specs but if its not printed correctly or ink/profile issues then you end up with a whole new beast which isnt as described on the tin.

[Martyn Heath]

Great analogy Rob. 😂
I totally agree with your points and the outgassing was the first thing that came to mind but now you mentioned the substrate I think it was the icing on the cake.

I have the same graphics to fit onto a van in the coming weeks so will be interesting to see if the same problems occur.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks Allister, the only real issue i seem to have atm is buckling/bowing in the middle of the media as its feeding through. According to the troubleshooting guide its maybe caused by too much pressure but im lowering the handle until they touch and thats about it. Also do you use the hot roller?

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for all the pointers and info guys. Must say you never stop coming accross new materials and products that people request but obviously you cant do it all and this is part of a bigger order for other products so thought i would atleast find out some info but i think i will decline and push them online to get them.

[Martyn Heath]

i dont speaky de french but thats good news👍👍 finally

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks rob, i did think it may be more specialised.

[Martyn Heath]

Interesting to hear some honest, working feedback 👍 regarding your change to hp

[Martyn Heath]

Hi Peter, thanks for your message and great to have a contact that can help in the future.

We did find one issue which we have solved, the new inks that Mutoh are now providing had problems with the tabs not coming out when the ink gets low and therefore not setting off the low ink sensor and then emptying the subtank. Its a known problem which mutoh know about iand i have since had new inks sent. However i still think there is an issue but for now it has gone back to sleep. I will check out your website and get your details for the future. Thanks

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks pane. Yes the colours are also an issue. Their green is vibrant and looks perfect printed on normal vinyl. When you shift to clear or frosted it looks fine from inside shop but much darker outside. I just done test prints to figure this all out.

I think my suggestion is going to be frosted on the lower windows but then normal vinyl on all other windows so that their brand colours are actually met.

Headache

[Martyn Heath]

Ok thats strange that you cant place them into illustrator. With regards to the fonts, dont embed the file once in illustrator then the fonts will not change.

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks rob, i will go through your checklist and see what i come up with. Having been dealing with this problem on a few jobs now it seems to do it once the job finishes and you restart the job. So prints fine then once it stops for few minutes magenta then stops. Cleaning gets it back again to print next job.

Anyway thanks

[Martyn Heath]

Thanks for the suggestions. i have no idea why the machine didnt pick up that its empty, never happened before.