Kevin.Beck
Forum Replies Created
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i believe this is why you have to try and find a “niche” market.
try to do something the customer can only get from you, and you can charge a decent price for..
the problem is..finding that market.
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matt
i would have thought anyone who sells the oki, will stock them
tennents
automarquee – front page
europlate
etc. -
congrates
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of course its the uv which fade the plates, so it does depend where you park it etc.
we bought a batch of backings with boarders already printed on them.
made 1 for a trailer, which is parked outside, and the red border has now vanished, plate was 6 months ago, so no system is fool proof.
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just an update.
i took out an agreement to cover me for 12 months.
i was a bit hesitent, as this agreement ment i couldn`t find cheaper ink suppliers.
but i have been informed that they`ll beat any ink price quote, and can supply me with ink at £120 a ltr and free refillable carts.
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way to go phil………
I try to suss out the customer on how much they are willing to spend.
If they come in my shop for I tee shirt. They get 10 mins and thats that. If no decision is made in that time frame, I send them on there way and tell them to come back when they know what they want.
Big orders are worth spending time with the customer, suggestiong ideas etc.
On a order of £25 or less, the maximum you can spend dealing with it is 15 mins. After that you are losing money and you might as well tell them to go else where. (this applys to me, as i am the only production worker)
I get this alot as we have a shop as appossed to a unit out of town.
like rodney says, if they don`t know what they want- TELL THEM. MAKE THE DECISIONS FOR THEM.
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we use the oki for the numbers and the ghosting. side images we use the gerber or the cadet, but it does depend on the image.
the oki cannot print white and the print is very transparent, ok for the front plate, but because the rear is yellow, images are darker and colours will change.
you can get plates with a white bit printed on them, but these hardley ever line up.
don`t get me wrong, it is a useful machine, but its not the be all and end all like folk make it out to be. it has its limitations, due to the print being very transparent.
as long as you tell the customer that the rear images might be different to the front, you should be covered.
when i had a demo not once was a rear plate made, only the front, no info of the rear plate changing colours was ever put forward. only when i asked about the colours changing was info given.
its useful for printing ghosting images and thats what we use it for.
like everything else thats cheap to buy, loads of folk have one, they all have the same images on a cd, end user prices for full colour plates have fallen out the sky.
folk selling them for £10 a pair, £5 for a bike plate (inc p&p)busy fools if you ask me. try to find something what noone else is using it for, or images that no one else has, that way you can charge a bit more. -
instead of printing onto the transparence and the placing onto the coloured plate.
print as normal, apply to a clear adshieve plate, and then to a adshieve reflective backing.
you use 3 items in the manufacture as appossed to the 2.
takes a while longer, but costs are reduced and the plate looks better (in my opinion
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quite agree-
but they could have given you a code thats only suitable to your computer. (like vmp used to be, or use a dongle) I also paid a £100 extra to have the software installed on another laptop too.
i bought my oki from someone else, and i get my blanks from the same supplier too. ( well, just the clear transparacies)
who advised using the 3 part system over the 2 part.
to
a. get a better looking plate (oki plates seem to come out like a banana)
b. save money.looking back, the software is a quick way to getting the job done. Thats why i wanted it.
if you are still set on having one, I`d opt to use corel to run it.
it will be interesting when my 12 months are up, to see what happens.
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I`m sure I read that the software was free if you used a certain amount of materials.
if you fell short, you paid a certain amount depending upon how short you fell.
But you are still at the mercy of the supplier giving you the code………….what happens if you fall out with the supplier? This means the supplier has you over a barrel, you daren`t fall out with them in case they don`t give you the codde.
why have the software only last 12 months??????
If they just give you the code free of charge, why not make the software everlasting in the first place???
sorry, but it stinks a bit of fish…………………..
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i`ve got a summa with optical alighment. works great, no problems, can`t vouch for other brands, but any top name will be ok.
stay clear of the cheaper end, if you can afford to.
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the reason we chose a shop over a unit was cost.
we bought the shop for £22K (7 years ago)
but half decent sized units were £4-7K ayear (7 years ago)
depends upon area etc.
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i`ve got a double shop front
although it does have its advantages – a unit would be more useful.
bigger area, loading/fitting bay etc
and no folk distrubing you in the middle of something asking you directions or wanting 1 photo copy…………aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrr
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just bought 1 off ebay. £8 inc postage
make sure you get the right way round lead first time 😳
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we are having problems with our SKY package.
every time we have them up, we always get the person with the most heaviest/broadest scottish accsent. in the world.
it reminds me of the Russ Abotts, scottish carricture, way back in the 1980`s tv sketch show.
😉
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i personally wouldn`t open a shop (building) selling personised sublimation products.
an internet website, yes,, but not a high street shop. there just isn`t enough people turnover and profit in the items.
certain items have a set value. will folk pay £15-£20 for a mug, jigsaw etc. these items have a low value. £10 is about correct.
but selling at £10 a mug, you would need 10 sales per day just to make £90 profit. overheads would kill you. i doudt very much if you`d get 10 people a day, every day.
we use sublimation for various products, but wont take orders of 1.
by the time the customer has explained what they want etc, and you`ve taken the order 15-30 minutes could have easliy passed.
you have then got to scan in the image, print it out and wait 3 mins before peeling the paper of the mug etc.total time for 1 mug could be closer to 30 -45 mins a mug.
i personally would use the equipment to print various designs on mugs etc and then sell on ebay.. get a production line going.
i don`t mean to be rude or hurtful, just my thoughts.
we bought a colour photo copier to do full colour images on tees and stuff. i thought, i might as well advertise colour copying as no one in my area does it.
do you know how frustrating it is to be interupted in the middle of job to to do 1 paper copy of 50p. ……….bloody frustrating..we now say the copy is broken, it just isn`t worth the agro.
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my main problem is , some folk are offering 1000 for £30. which leaves very little profit, if any………..
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first time there for me. in at 10 and back home for 1.
i did think there would be more machines.
has anyone got any suggestions for a starter machine.
i was looking at the gem @ £3K. limited, but got to start somewhere.
quite agree about p&p. the nec should reduce the cost of the stall, so smaller manufacturers could attend.
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you`re printing in cmyk mode,
you need to swich to spot colours. ( in yopur software, i used signlab to run mine)
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my hourly rate ranges from
£0 to £200 per hour. -
quote :Nicoless – Did you
did you miss that, I was expecting a rocket 😉
thanks for the info.
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slightly off topic- sorry……
but my wife makes an awful nosie a well………
😉
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Dave – we would be printing onto proper digital vinyl.
Nicoless – Did you slice them after the flood coat?
I`m thinking, to contour cut them on the cadet, then flood and hopefully weed after the flood coat had gone tacky etc. -
I got white material from grafitp , sprocketted.
I used standard foils and I must say very impressed.
They have stood up to washing alot better than some of the other inkjet/sublimation tranfsers I`ve tried.
The only problen sometimes is the registration of colours on the print.
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not wanting to run anyone down whos bought a cheap cutter,
but haven`t you noticed a lot of threads from folk who have brought 1 and can`t get it to work properly.
I wonder what will happen when 1 goes wrong…..
I personally would pay the extra and get a well known brand and be up and running in minutes…
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i had a pc600. I sold it and bought a gerber edge.
The edge has made more money than the roland would have ever done.
cheaper running costs too.
although the roland always came in handy for resting my cup of tea on………. for that alone I miss it.
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last time I looked, they were limited to certain printers.
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this always bugs me,
equipment costs $10K in the states,
they ship it over and just change the $ sign to a £ sign.
what happens to the exchange rate? -
i wonder how many they have sold?
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mine also did that.
i think it was the solinoid, cost about £100
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if its anything like the version cadlink are trying to push, its around the £5K. The dark tee shirt version will be more i suspect.
Some folk fail to see, certain methoids of printing offer both fors and agaists.
I`ll stick my neck out and say, no 1 machine/method covers all options etc.
Thats why we do screen printing-sublimation and heat transfers………
At £5K + you`d have to sell alot of tee shirts to get your money back. Each tee shirt must take approx 5 -10 mins to produce, taking in to account printing time and drying time.
1 main problem with tee shirts, is they have a set value from the public.
Folk will only pay so much for a tee shirt.
Spend £5K on sign equipment and the returns and profits will be alot faster and higher. 😉
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I take it the job files are saved.
If the fonts used in the design are changed to graphics, the job could be opened up even if the font is not on the system anymore.
sign lab has a note folder, where a reminder of the name could be writen.
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screen printing would be very cost effective.
Printing 100 tees would only take you 90 mins max.using a machine like the fast t jet has its market place, but the tees still have to be heatpressed to cure the ink, takng 2-3 minutes each just to cure.
screen printing – you need a lot more room for the equipment.
if you haven`t got the room, sub the printing out. 100 tee shirts printed 2 colours 1 side should not be more than £1 each + tee shirt.
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quote :how about a porn site
big money in it………….says my mrs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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we also use corel too.
the LG software is a very quick way of doing things.
the software also keeps records of all the plates you have made along with the relivent info required to make plates that are legal for road use.
I just really wanted a comment on the software situation. i was never told i would have to pay £400 per year, if that is the case.
has anyone had their oki and the lg software for more than a year? perhaps they could shed some light on the question.
or perhaps paul from automarquee could enlighten us! as he sells the oki.
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bump.
still waiting for an answer………
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proberly a screen printing or edge job.
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lgsigns
can you tell me what will happen to my software after the 12 months are up.
will i have to pay another fee to activate it or will it never run out?
i believe in the instruction book, it depends upon how much consumables you have used?
I have asked my supplier this and they can`t give me an answer.
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small thermal printers can be bought on ebay for 200gbp print area around the 4″ wide. larger 8″ machines can be bought for 1500ish gbp
do a search
you just need to sorce a suitable ribbon, wax, wax reson or reson, for the material to be printed on.
the last long of ribbons i bought were 17gbp per 300m roll.
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quote :And for what its worth I think the “Mini” thing may have been an urban myth
the letters I had from BMW and the several visits/ correspondence from the licensing officers wasn`t a myth
nor are the fees paid for using the trade marks etc.
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CARRIE..PUT THEM AWAY
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while i agree with cheryl
ignorence is not a get out of jail card.
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we`ve all done it.
normally if you heat it again, this will soften the glue and the vinyl should be able to be peeled off.
BUT, it will leave a glue mark, sometimes this can be covered up, other times not.
i have read of a glue remover, but haven`t tried it or can remember the name.
I have also heated an A4 sheet many times over the mark to lift the glue alittle.
hope this helps
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having copy right
and being able to enforce copy right is another thing all together.copy right is of no use if you can`t afford to enforce it.
big companies can easliy chuck £`s into enforcing it, they don`t even have to own the copy right, they just send you a nasty letter and the average joe bloggs will cave in.
a classic eg is BMW, they contacted many people about using the brand “mini” in both products and trading names. many people were forced out of business straight away, many folk had to change their trading names, people were caught up in laywers talking, costing them £50,000+ in laywers fees. NOT ONE OF THEM WERE EVER TAKEN TO COURT. THEY TRIED TO WEAR THEM WORN DOWN FINANCIALLY THE MOST RECIENT WAS ONLY 3 MONTHS AGO, THEY ONLY TRADED ON EBAY, NOTHING ON A BIG SCALE, THEY WENT UNDER THE NAME “MINI BOSS”, 1 NASTY LETTER SHOT HER DOWN.
cadlink and others have their products copied and openly sold nearly every day of the week, has anyone heard of anyone being taken to court……
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i have kevins problem………..
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quote :I still don’t know, if it is OK to use the PC60 to print on to paper- wouldn’t try it without confirmation, as I would not want to ruin the head.
surley it would only be worth it if the quantity was small.
any half decent order it would be un economical to use the pc60, you`d be far better off subing it out.
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cheers for the reply guys,
it seems that the market if flooded with folk doing this stuff, so prices have fallen loads.
perhaps i need a rethink, don`t want to invest £K`s to get pennys back.
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you can buy sheets of labels in various sizes from staples, i think they also do a A4 size.
do they have to be a certain shape/contour?
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i charge by the metre – (most of the time.)
somewhere between £10 -£20 permetre, single colour print.
then add an extra £? per metre for 2 colours, and so on etc.
we now manily use the edge for single colour prints. as we have a cadet.
to get the price per unit, just calcluate how many will fit in a running metre.
its alittle vauge as only you know your overheads etc.
don`t forget that small stickers will take a long time to cut out, as will complex shapes, if you have the gs15, it an`t no speed demond. and it don`t half make a noise
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what cost was the system and from which supplier?
thanks
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i did enquire about the bulk system with BP.
They said they were unwilling to install with taking a maintenence contract out…………
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just found my prices.
£65 for the 220ml & £115
for the
440ml carts
+ £12.50 postage.
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this used to happen in our house when we had a german sheperd and a small collie cross.
the collie cross used to love using the bigger dogs basket, leaving the big dog to sleep in the small basket…. -
quote :Ahhhhh….. but it does look a bit like Alien!
i count 6 digits………..
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car`t be sure of question 1, but I`d say yes.
question 2. yes this would work, but how durable the graphic would be, thats another matter. i can`t see the tonner used as very UV/abrasive resistant.
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surely bulk and refillable carts are 2 different things?
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gulity as charged.
but its not as bad as using old english or brush, in caps………
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quote :Using the standard Cadet profiles. It is exactly the same ink but in bulk format. Had no problems with it whatsoever and it is half the price of cartridges. You just have to keep an eye on the ink levels as the machine does no longer tell you you are running out. (The new cartridges are transparent)
sounds like the way to go.
I`ve just been charged £12.50 for postage on 1 cart………. -
quote :I bought the re-fillable cartridges from Granthams (01772 250207) and they are great. I now buy my ink from them in 1 litre bottles at the cost of £150. This has saved me a great deal of money on the cartridge prices (equates to £290 per litre in cartridge form).
The initial cost of changing over was in the region of £770 but this included 4 litres of ink.Dave
are you using their profiles or the standard cadets?
kev
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cross that one off the list them……
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why don`t you letter up his van for free, in exchange for the space on the other side….. to advertise yourself.
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Rod,
is that 10 of each colour or 10 units mixed colour etc.and who is supplying you.
thanks kev
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Lorraine.
GET HARD ASSED or get run ragged by these clowns.
You can fire customers, just as they can shop around for lower prices.I too was “meek & mild” when I first started out. Gave loads of money away on these Diaries salesmen.
Spent ages on the phone lissening to the sales talk etc.Get used to saying NO THANK YOU. and then slam the door shut or phone down, and get on with earning some money to pay the bills & feed the kids etc.
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where from Nic?
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I ask for a £30 fee for designing the layout, the layout can be changed till the customer is satisfied with the design.
If I don`t see them again, I`ve got a few quid for my time.
I find that if the customer is genuine, they will pay, if they wriggle out of it, they are just being noisey and I don`t want those kind of customers anyway. I lose too much time on @rse holes as it is.
get rid of the timewasters straight away and give your genuine customers a quality service they deserve.
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was was recently asked if i did a simlier thing.
the chip shop owner showed me a trade mag, there was a sign company offering cling decals, full colour for £25 each. wasn`t worth me doing.
but we got to keep our mums happy…
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i actually got a call from cadlink yesterday, they were doing the rounds with this machine giving a free demo at certain locations up and down the country.
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i think its about £5k
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i was offered the oki with or without the software.
i have heard that 1 supplier has dropped/is dropping the oki because of the lack of support from tennents and oki.
if its just numberplates you are looking to supply, I believe the thermal printing system if far better.
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I`ve got the oki, and have to say, its sold with alittle over hipe, to say the least.
it can not print white so any image transfered to the rear plate will almost certainly change colour.
i`ve also seen plates that have faded badly.
i`ve not tried to use it on other than the numberplate substrates, so can`t comment on white vinyl products.
we use it for ghosting and nothing else.
if buying, i would ask the question regarding the software, as some folk might be charged and anually fee for using it, if you don`t buy a certain amount of substrates off the supplier.
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funny things charities.
i always thought they were run on a shoestring buget.
last week i saw an job vacancy in the local rag.
“FUND RAISER” £18K per year….
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i`ve done a quick print on a sample from hexis, got alot of bleed, profile needed a bit of tweaking.
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i agree with carrie, you just can`t trust anyone these days.
even folk you`ve done business with loads of times before, can still screw you over. I`ve struddled to get payment of some folk i`ve never had a problem with before in over 5 years.
depost on order.
rest on collectionnever let designs out of the shop without payment.
it justs beats me up, how folk expect to order the most personlised items and dont expect to pay for them up front.
i get some that even say i`ve no money on me now………… what person walks around with a few £ in their pocket. 99% of folk must have a credit/debit card.
another reason why we had the credit card paymebt method installed.
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for £4k you are not far off the price of a gerber edge.
a much far better machine.
the only time a pc600 beats the edge is in fine detail.
i`ve had both, the roland went, the gerber still remains.
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dave.
if you can claim back vat from before you were vat registered,
does that mean you have to send vat invoices to all the customers that didn`t pay vat on the old invoices, for services you gave them?
if so, can you imagine the hassel….
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screen printing can be very cost effective.
people are saying it`ll finish, due to the introduction of machines like the cadet etc, we have a cadet and are still screen printing some jobs, horses for courses.
today, i supplied a graphic for a screen printer to make a screen.
he told me the price of the jobs.
6 pannels, foamex, white, 2ft x 8ft with a single colour print £25 each……
sounds really cheap, but once he makes the screen, he`ll print them in less than 10 mins.
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got to admit,
all the computers that have caused me major problems have been conected to the net.
we have production comps only, and 1 for the internet/emails/invoices etc.
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This sort of trouble highlights the need for a “just in case computer.
When I buy another computer, I never get rid of the old one. It becomes the “just in case” computer. I just box it up and store it.
My last computer went down, phoned up the shop I got it from, who advertised in the YP ” 2 years free call out repairs”. The seller said I`ll be there in 2 weeks.
What use is that to a business……… 👿
The sub computer might be old, but at least it will get you out of trouble…
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did a couple with tee shirt vinyl
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the original summa blade lasted nearly twice as long.
I`ll give print one a ring next time.
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black square white cross……………..
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i use blades from Harry, i think these are great but seem to wear quickly.
i`m using speed of 800
presure of 75-80 oracal 751 vinyl, 120 for tee shirt vinyl. a new blade starts out at approx 40g presure. when it gets to 100 for vinyl out comes a new one.
How many blades do you use, I know it goes on how much material you use and how many times the blade its the cutting strip, I use approx 1 blade every 5-7 weeks.. is that good or bad.
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give the supplier of SL a ring………..
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we`ll be shutting down for a month in december.
i`m getting someone in to run couple of small jobs a couple of days aweek, just to keep it going.
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don`t forget you get taxed on your stock.
just doing a stock count this week. …….. i have all the fun 😉
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sometimes its impossible to get photos
if you have the outlines, you can take orders over the phone etc. you don`t have to move from your chair.
you`ve just got to becareful as sometimes the outlines are slightly off, badges are placed in different places etc.
buy from impact, they`re the best.
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a good bench is worth its weight in gold, get the height correct or you`ll suffer with back ache.
I got a floor on mine and another shelf, get loads of stuff under it.
lights above the betch are also essensional
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i made my 8×5 out of timber, wheels from machine mart, topped of with a cutting mat from graphic supplies.
also made a similer one with a mdf top, but had it laminated. the top alone cost £120 ish.
wheel were approx £6 each.then the next day walking around car boot and found 6 for £2….
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i found the welding module in vmp very confusing, in sign lab you have 4/5 options, just press each one till you get the right result.
also the node editing is simplier.
i could do the same job much quicker in signlab, but i had been using SL since i first started, so perhaps a little bias.
its just my opion, each to their own, and all that.
alan, did you get the vmp cd?
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I`ve got both.
vmp £500
signlab £1000+
signlab much easier to learn.
but it depends upon budget
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why have you fitted the black to the silver. When I supply sun visors the customer gets 2 parts.
The reason being, you might place it in the wrong position.And did you supply fitting instructions.
I always add a disclaimer at the bottom, stating that I cannot be held responsability for wrongly fitted graphics.
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I can open it in corel, but it an`t a vector…
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i buy from grapityp.
apply with a painters pad.
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when i bought an edge it came with omega.
i couldn`t get on with it at all.
bought signlab to run it and was producing work within 30 mins.
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never leave to chance or it`ll come back and bite you in the ass.
better to spend another 10 mins extra laminating, than 1 hrs reprinting and then laminating later down the line.
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hasn`t there justy been a thread on this…or has it been deleted?
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if you pm me your address details I`ll look out my demo version for you.
i did buy the full product, but couldn`t get used to the welding module.
it does have some good features that signlab/cadlink should take a look at.
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depends upon the job.
If there is very little money in the job, I`ll use the nearest font. But always ask first. if in doubt get the customer to sign off the job.
If there is more money in the job I`ll do some research or redigitise it.
Its very easy to lose 1hrs work looking for the correct font. ( I have 1000’s) all for £30 profit. No thankyou, next customer please.
sorry but it still amases me, customers who expect you move heaven and earth for little money.
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i buy my liquid from graphitype (sp)
like metioned in the other thread i had problems with a roller. Spray from a can was fine but worked out dear.
I tried a painters pad, as mentioned in the other thread and that worked fine. Big jam jar, leave the pad in the liquid, top screwed on. Not 100% perfect but close enought.
It takes seconds to cover a graphic, no need to reload back in the machine.
horses for courses, it depends upon the job, but for small decals its the way to go.
I leave printes 24hrs before covering with lam liquid.
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while I`m with you on this one phil.
what can you do! Shell out a load of money trying to get £100 back.
I know its the princible, I`ve been there. Went to see a lawyer. He said how much money have you lost, because of what they did. I mentioned the princible thing, and he laughed. Ok give me £500 and I`ll get you £100 back, was his reply.
I would have mentioned something about the design when the customer said about the van. or offered to do it for cash, and just put it through the books as normal.
I`ve done “cash” jobs, then done an invoice and booked the job as normal……..
Just look at ebay, cd`s are copied all the time. Brians outline/grtaphics 2 go, cd being one of them. You`ve got to ask the question why hasn`t he done anything about it……….I would say thats more copy right abuse.
large copywrighted across the design next time. Along with a warning about court proceedings to the infringer.