[Martin C]

quote :

I feel it must be said tho, that it took us 14-15 canditates to find these 2

That’s always a problem when recruiting but this can cut both ways as many employers expect a steady gradual always upward progression which doesn’t allow for a breather on the way to the summit! Difficult to justify as a small business but certainly worth looking at the longer term with some kids.

My induction course for Yellow Pages. 42 people for 3 weeks in 4 star hotel, £20 a night out of pocket expenses and that was back in 88! 2 people sacked in first week, after 3 months there were 6 of us left across the country! As an employer they were releasing people too early.

Likewise on a national paper. Out of 12 newbies only 1 was left when I jumped ship 2 years later.

Most went on to very successful careers with other companies.

[Martin C]

quote :

We employed 2 fantastic apprentice panel beaters approx 8-9 weeks ago and it`s refreshing to see 2 young lads show such enthusiasm and initiative at 16 years of age. Not 1 day sick or absent between them and they just don`t stop.

Allelujah……….where were you when the OTHER thread was running :lol1: Great post demonstrating that there’s some good young talent out there and a superb system for generating a bit of humour and dedication.

Out of interest can I ask what hourly rate these lads are on only your bonus scheme represents a days wages by some peoples reckoning?

I have to disagree slightly with your ‘play truant’ get knowhere analogy. The biggest rogue at our school had several businesses at a very young age and has now retired to count his money……..! He had no fear of the consequences of bankruptcy as he was too thick to understand.

[Martin C]

It would be a shame if this topic was left to run without some valid input :lol1:

One, just one observation……….then I’m out of here……promise 😎

I read into some of the posts on here, and on another thread who’s title I cannot recall 😉 a desire for ‘experience’.

Wearing a former hat, it took me some years of hiring and firing, recruting and training before a wise old sage gave me a brief tutorial in recruitment do’s and don’ts.

The key was quite simple, as an example, i’d been looking for experienced daily newspaper sales people and was recruiting experienced magazine sales people thinking their skills would be instantly transferable. They weren’t. I’d been recruiting against CV’s that indicated similar technical experience but which didn’t actually exist.

I always remember this guys saying, ‘When recruiting a singer it is not difficult to find someone who can hold a tune but do they sing songs you like and can they PERFORM?’

So, ook for the qualities you require rather than pure experience. Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but it’s so easy to get swept away at interview by someone who has experience but no ability! (:)

Folowing his advice I took on a Dyslexic Copywriter, a 17 year old used car salesman and a page 3 girl! Best sales team I ever had!

[Martin C]

quote :

effective as a snow plough in Africa

They have snow on the top of Kiliminjaro! 😉

[Martin C]

I could so easily sit on the fence here, but you wouldn’t expect that would you :lol1:

I am on some jobs embarassingly expensive and on others unashamedly cheap. However……………

quote :

You find yourself working long hours for little reward.

If Peter can do a Transit in 90 minutes for £150 that doesn’t neccessarily mean he’ll be working long hours for little reward does it? If he gains a reputation for being cheap and that brings him 2 or 3 jobs a day like this then he’s doing 4 and a half hours a day for over a grand a week!

Of course if he’s doing one a day he has far too much spare time on his hands!

[Martin C]

You’ll have absolutely no problem printing onto fleeces with Flock if you do the following:

Support the transfer area from underneath with a piece of folded cloth.

Cover the entire surrounding area with some fleece offcuts facing downwards (pile to pile).

Use as little pressure as you need to to get the desired ‘meltdown’.

Reduce the heat setting and increase the dwell time. Flock onto fleece is like vinyl onto vinyl or xxxx on a blanket! 😛

When finished use a toothbrush to brush the pile back up.

You will get a faint square or rectangle where the carrier paper was but if you go into any Asda stor and look at the back of the till girls jackets you’ll see that this is acceptable to them so should be for anyone?? 😕

With practice you can eliminate the pressure pattern by trimming the transfer as close as possible and hitting it just right on the pressure/heat/dwell time. And it lasts and lasts too!

[Martin C]

Quite clearly there’s more to this moving avatar thing than suggested. 😥 Please can I have my old one back Rob, thanks!?

On second thoughts, it’s Monday morning, to hell with it I’m dog tired anyway!

[Martin C]

Not sure if this is the right place but it seems an appropriate theread!!?

Last year I done some work for a UK Sign Boards user. They didn’t pay! 🙁

I’ve tried to track the guy down but without sucees so if anyone knows the wherabouts of:

Stuart Horsburgh

formerly trading as

Abacus signs
Unit 6
Tweedvale Mills West
Walkerburn
Peebles
EH43 6BE

Please can you tell the bxxxxxxx that payment for the special Silver Trophy I done for his Rugby Club is still awaited! 👿

[Martin C]

quote :

Be a little gay and a little more interesting to him.

I bow to your greater experience Marcella 😉

I think in this PC world we live in it should read ‘Be a little Lesbanian and a little more interesting to him!’

That’s the trouble with this internet lark………………corrupts us youngsters minds! 😆

[Martin C]

This was on the grey plastic rubbing strip down the side, not the paintwork. It’s never happened to me before. Customer was ok about it. The van was T Reg, arrived dirty, I took an hour plus to clean it thus improving it’s value by £500 😆 and while he beamed admiringly at the graphics took him straight to the problem and pointed it out. (I’ve always found this to be the best policy, never try and hide something, put your hands up and say I messed up (eve if it’s not your fault) and most people are ok about it. Failing that a kick in the xxxxxxx’s brings them round to your way of thinking real sharpish!) 😮

I’m only assuming that car body shops have some magic spray for recoating these and this had been done at some stage before he got the van? 😎

[Martin C]

I vinyled a Merc Vito today from artwork supplied by a graphic designer. Don’t know what CD he was using but the rear quarter panels were way out, on size and shape! I was supposed to fill with blue and overlay white phone numbers but there was no way I could ever cut to fit! 🙁

I favour the Digital camera way. Take a good side on shot, measure a panel, I usually measure the side door in millimetres. When downloaded into Corel Draw I simply draw a box the true width of the door, say 900mm and scale the photograph up to fit. Not only do you get the actual van in the actual colour but any hidden badges are also highlighted.

[Martin C]

Done a van today, a Merc Vito. The diagonal side graphic went over the grey plastic rubbing strip at the bottom so needed to be cut. On one side the overlaid vinyl that had to be removed came away fine. On the other side the vinyl took the paint off! 😕

Can these rubbing strips be re-painted??

[Martin C]

Probably looking for this: 😀

Put your speakers up loud………..

http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/

[Martin C]

Thanks Anjasola,

Just to clarify, did you have the aditional piece made for the Heated upper part, or the bed?

[Martin C]

quote :

As you have said Martin you were £100 cheaper (that is a very large margin).

No they were £100 dearer! 😮 A subtle difference but relevant none the less. They were overpriced, I could have knocked another £100 off and still have been well in.

[Martin C]

quote :

you can’t compare a ford fiesta to a rolls royce, they both may be cars but thats where the similarity ends

I know what you mean, those Rolls Royces are a bugger to park 😆

[Martin C]

My design entirely. He only wanted his name on the side and a phone number. I flowered it up a bit with some shading and design, pushed the price up from what he had had on his previous vehicle (Plain Navy on white van) done the job and didn’t even know he’d had a competitive quote til afterwards.

[Martin C]

One final analogy!! 😛

Last year my neice who was working in a travel agents at the time sorted out a discount for a holiday to Majorca. £1470 reduced from £1580. I was an hour away from booking it, went on the net. Same hotel, same accomodation, booked the flights direct with Brittania and the hotel through a Majorcan agent. Total cost £960. Was everyone making a loss or were the travel company having it away?

Was I a customer hell bent on the lowest price or just doing sensible business?

[Martin C]

Steve,

You miss my point. I happily done this van for £225. The other company didn’t! I got the business, they didn’t! I’m getting the repeat business, they aren’t!

I don’t always look at customers from the point of view of what they can afford, (although it’s a natural thing to do) been stung like that too many times in sales. Scruffy urchin, backside hanging out of his trousers who turns out to be a multi millionaire. I look at my costs, what I need to earn, what I think the job is worth and ‘frankly ma’m I don’t give a damn’ about whether someone else is selling the same at £500 or £50! I’ve undercharged and overcharged if ‘market’ prices touted on here are to be believed but never knowingly made a loss.

One of the local franchisees in the area quoted for some window signs that took me 4 hours to do. At £230 I was under their price by £100. Good luck to them, but again I got the business, earnt well, got the repeat business and have just done 50 shirts for the secretaries footy team!

I think its just all about getting together with the signees in your area and agreeing on some sort of structure band.

Why? This as Steve says is business. If a local signmaker goes boots up because they are too dear or I go boots up because I’m too cheap, ce la vie…….! 😕 I can’t seethe Fast Signs of this world reducing their advertising, their overheads or their workforce to accomodate me so the thought of jumping in bed with the devil (hot) to strengthen prices is a no, no! 👿

[Martin C]

they could have only earned £200 profit for five or six days work including fitting.

But we all know that you cannot sustain this level of pricing and stay afloat don’t we?

I don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea, that I am a ‘sell it cheap just to get the business’ merchant.
I’m not. It’s simply that, for example, some van graphics using £30 worth of vinyl which I apply and charge out at £225 are simply, in my humble opinion, overpriced at £450!

[Martin C]

ooo, ooo, eee, ahhhhh,………where’s me nuts! 😆

Steve , it was Friday and Saturday, I go for a swing on Sundays! 😆

I don’t clock watch. Snooker was on TV, I had a beer in my hand and had taken the afternoon off so needed to catch up. May as well weed those vinyls now methinks. On Saturday mornings my wife works or shops, my kids have tuition and it all fits in just fine and dandy.

[Martin C]

Now dont take what Im about to say here personaly martin

Don’t worry, I won’t and if I do I’ll tell me Mum! 🙁

quote :

I have been in the trade for over 25 years and worked from home for a long time but refused to cut my prices just because I had lower overheads. Its a value thing!!!. what are we worth!!!

If your happy with that, that’s fine. But who’s setting this imaginary price structure from which to cut prices???? (hot) My prices are MY prices, the quality of my work is MY work and the service I offer is MY service. Am I devaluing my professional status by selling a sign for £400 (£250) profit that has been quoted at £675 by a local franchise with hefty commissions to pay? Should I really care about what they are doing?

I can understand the feeling of worth an experienced traditional signwriter has and their subsequent annoyance as their business is eroded by newcomers producing a similar product in vinyl at a lower price. I don’t believe that gives them the right to live in a professional vacuum! By the same token if one vinyl signmaker produces a similar product at a better price what gives the higher priced signmaker the ruling say on what is true professional worth??? 😕

My teenage Daughter insists on the latest designer brands, pays £30 for a Todd Barker T-shirt (name changed to keep solicitors happy 🙄 ). For £4 I can produce a shirt of the same if not better quality and could sell it at market prices for say, £10 and make a healthy profit. Todd Barker invests heavily in display stands and advertising to build a reputation and business based on the marketing ideas of some high flying retail guru. A quality product of true worth produced by a professional company?? the bench mark of true value? NO, a cleverly conspired plot to stop people looking at what true value for money is!

Undercutting is a word used too frequently to mask the real reasons for losing business…..overcharging!

The trade is being devalued because the skill sets needed to produce good looking signs are being reduced. That’s a natural occurence and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

[Martin C]

My overriding thought on this one is that I didn’t think I was too cheap until people told me or I picked up what was being achieved by others on these boards! 😕 Sure, I had some jobs that I got completely wrong price wise, but put it down to the learning curve I knew I had to go through….

[Martin C]

BUT

quote :

£65 cos it’s my mate’s company and I’d help him out. And I said I’d fit them too.

He is getting it for £30 A VAN!!!!!!!!That works out as £30 – £10 per van Vinyl. approx £3 for app tape. so £17 TO CUT,WEED AND TAPE UP A VAN’S WORTH OF VINYL – no thank you.

£17 X 26 vans = £442 for 26 vans of vinyl, weeded and taped up!!!!!

Then he says he’ll do their printed letter heads for £15 per 1000!!!!!

There comes a point where it is so obviously silly that you have to question the enquirers motives in the first place? I ask up front what they have been quoted elsewhere, what there expected budget is, whether it is price alone they are looking for and if I was cheaper would that be the only reason I’d get the job??

If the answers are ok I sort a design out and pitch in with a price that I’M happy with. If the answers don’t add up I don’t bother. 😎

[Martin C]

I’m going to stick a cat amongst the pigeons here! (:)

Last night I cut and weeded about 9 metres of vinyl, it took me an hour and a bit to weed and lay up. Cost, lets say £25.

At 10 this morning I toodled down to local car dealer less than a quarter of a mile away and applied said graphics to courtesy cars. I was home at 1o/c with a cuppa in my hand and £170 better off. Less the £25, = £145 for a total of 4 hours work. Now I’d like to get more money for this job and arguably it is worth more but on this job and with the way it fits in around other stuff I do I’m happy 😆

I guess the point I’m trying to make is, don’t knock people and look down at them when you lose a job on price. I have chosen to work from home with minimal overheads and have set my business and prices up to earn what I want to earn. If you have invested in premises and machinery, office furniture and staff then cannot sustain that business because you are being undercut then isn’t it your fault and not those of us who have set up their business in a different way?

[Martin C]

quote :

I once spent a couple of days signwriting the windows of a sex aids wholesaler

I bet that gave you a buzz!

Err, blow up sheep…………my sister in law has a Border Collie………is that a good enough excuse? 😳

[Martin C]

Try your local Fancy Dress shop.
Not that they’ll have a size 12 Ladies Hammer Drill Costume but they often have contact numbers for that sort of thing.

If you want an inflatable sheep we’ve a shop in town that does them (local agricultural college just up the road) with real feel lips but you’ll have to hurry…..

………..don’t want to get an ugly one do you!!? (hot) 😆

[Martin C]

I recall a local lad being prosecuted after a night on the beer. He’d found a suitable hedge and his mates put the car headlamps on just as a cop car passed by. I would imagine he was playing to the crowd but when you gotta go, you gotta go (hot)

As a delivery driver in a former life I know only too well the importance of a gallon container in theback of the van.. ‘.You think ‘I’ll go at the next drop…….then forget (walking a hundred yards seems to make IT go away).sit in the van again and your desperate. Then the next place, the toilet is on the 5th floor so you leave it and so on. Finally you succumb, desperation is setting in, sweat pouring from brow and the containers slipped behind some boxes. It’s dark, just a single bulb on a temporary switch which goes out just as you find the damn thing. (the container…..not that 🙄 ). And that’s when it hit’s you. You look through the rear window, they feel like patio doors, life goes on around you, ‘the whole world can surely see me’ an old lady walks past with her dog, a group of youths kick a ball against your van. All at once it seems that the world has taken to the streets and you’ve to emerge fom the back of this van as if on some sort of under cover police operation. Desperate times 😆

[Martin C]

The difficuties almost certainly stem from whether you have the correct settings in the Colour Profiles box. If you have the ICM Colour profiles (which are supplied by Xpres I think) then it may follow that these are the ones to use on a 1290 Epson. However when we went through the ICM set up it wouldn’t work with my printer so the decision was made to dump them and override in favour of Corel Colour palettes.

CMYK or RGB both work, although one is deemed better than the other. I can never see why??

[Martin C]

Ok, here’s what I was told to do. Bare with me, this is from memory!

Under Control panel, go into Printers and right click on your Subli printer. Mines an Epson 980 (The settings may be different for the bigger Epson).

Click on Colour Management tab, set to Automatic and the Colour Profiles box below should be empty.

Within the Corel Printer Set Up. (Click File Printer Set Up) Under MAIN Tab, PAPER=Photo Quality Inkjet paper, tick COLOUR and CUSTOM settings. Under PAPER Tab click printable area standard. Under LAYOUT, all unticked.

Return to MAIN Tab and click on ADVANCED.
It should be set as follows.
PAPER=Photo Quality Ink Jet Paper
COLOR=ticked
COLOR MANAGEMENT tick NO Color Adjustment
PRINT QUALITY=Photo 720DPI
HIGH SPEED untick
FLIP HORIZONTAL tick
FINEST DETAIL tick
EDGE SMOOTHING tick

As I say, this worked for me to a degree, I’m not 100% happy with the strength of the RED produced but it is much better than what I was getting before using the Xpres Inks.

[Martin C]

NO, you don’t need colour correcton software with the Xpres own brand Inks, but you do need to persevere to get to speak to someone who can run through the correct settings for Corel. It took me 4 months of struggling before getting the right settings and in general they are ok but not brilliant.

If you want to PM me I’ll forward my phone mumber and you can phone me to check your settings in Corel 11 with mine?

[Martin C]

I’ve only used it on small `12″ x 6″ signs and to my knowledge they are fine. At least I haven’t had a call to put them back up! A liberal sausage of No nails randomly spread on the back, push against the wall, hold tight and roberts your mums brother! No Nails is really Evo Stik in a different format, I think!!?

If in doubt I’d probably use a combination of No nails with a single screw either side. Much easier to fix and rawplug than the full 4 corners monty.

[Martin C]

Thanks kev, the plot thickens on this one! Now I have a major manufacture of a clamp fitting who is going to confirm suitability of ali scaffolding for this project. The suggestion is that an indent drilled into the tube, rather than a complete hole through may be enough to alleviate any threat of splitting.

[Martin C]

Dewi,

The Doro Ultra Bond Tape is reccomended for use on aluminium, steel and powder coated surfaces. Not wood and brickwork. I’d be very wary of using tape on a dusty building!!

You could try ‘No nails’……..which I’ve used with great success on small car park signs.

[Martin C]

It can be improved and the Tech people at Xpres can talk you through this. You may need some patience though!!?

I had the same problem and willl shortly be changing my ink supplier from Xpres to Rotech. Nuff said!

If you can let me know what settings you have in Corel 11 I’ll run through them with you to check against mine.

[Martin C]

One word the council, sorry two words, the local council, oh well you get my meaning! 😆

If ever you design a new chair and want it tested, take it to your local council offices whereby you will find many hundreds of people willing to do little else but sit on their butts all day long. But that’s good news for anyone offering a service and particularly one as mundane as print, small quantities of occasionally required digital media and the like. This job is often handed to the office junior who will require every ‘t’ crossed and every ‘i’ dotted, the sort of sales call that the bigger boys wouldn’t have the patience to make.

Try the Leisure Services Department, Museums, the Environmental people, anyone really who you think may have need for your services. Of course there will be a main marketing department as well but in my experience there is a lot of stuff handled in the sections.

[Martin C]

Thanks Chunkielad,

Scaffolding supplies are the people I had found to supply the fittings and it is they who have said that ali tube would fracture.

I’ve dug a bit of a hole for myself on this one. The use is as a demountable Boxing Ring, the uprights will have rope tensioners on and the ropes will hold it all together. There is a ring on the market that looks pretty flimsy, inch and a half box section, no bracing, slides together and is held very rigid by the tension of the ropes. I felt that ali scaffolding would be much stronger, easier to manufacture and have potential orders for 2 or 3 of these already 😳

I’ll try and post a pic of the type of thing I need to achieve, no bracing, quite simple…..and lightweight!

[Martin C]

When I started I used my Van for Courier work in between jobs. Couldn’t you do the same with the bike?

[Martin C]

I use Tekton with Banner Ups from Dorotape for banners that are up over a week, and some for over 6 months. 🙁 All you need do is roll out the length you need fold back the ends about 50mm and secure with some double sided tape. Banner Ups are plastic eyelets doubled up and stuck on with very strong adhesive tape… and come complete.

Only trouble is Tekton only comes in 38″ wide rolls. But at £66.00 per roll (£1.44p per metre) and banner Ups at £21.00 per hundred you have the makings of a 20′ Banner for less than £12 quid!

Tekton needs fitting properly. Being quite stiff , as opposed to stretchy PVC, it’s not very forgiving if stretched and you’ll get ripples across it.

This can also be an advantage, as can it’s light weight and very crisp whiteness. 😎

If you need a sample pic of what one looks like in situ to show your customer I’ve got loads……. 😀

[Martin C]

[left]http://www.boxingtalk.net/images-msgbrd/tits.gif[/left]

[Martin C]

I’ve a 2 litre Tin Can masquerading as a turbocharged Citroen Berlingo.

Never thought I’d say it but it’s a joy to drive, does 55 to the gallon (diesel) at least but is pig useless for transporting anything too big for any distance.

I’ve driven a few Merc Sprinters, the big high top 4 metre bed one’s. Great performance for a big vehicle, like driving a car and loads and loads of space. Trouble is I was doing a parcel run and the bigger the van, the more the guvnors would put in it! 🙄

[Martin C]

Sorry Pete, it was just me being fa, fa, fas…..fasciscious! 😎
I would have made the words bigger either side, there seems to be space?

[Martin C]

Thanks Rebecca, i’ll try that. By Correx tape I guess you mean high strength tape?

[Martin C]

Good looking sign but those Sausages & fresh Ccoked Meats must surely be small cos I can hardly see em! 😎 I’d have made the words a bit bigger, that’s all………

[Martin C]

Sorry chaps, can’t understand it myself!

I get the impression that none of you ever shops around for a better price, that you’ve never called on a business to find that what you wanted can’t be done (we’re the ‘experts’, they’re the customers) and that the customer should come ready packaged with a label round his neck saying ‘I’m potentially a goodun!’

Every week I get odd enquiries.

Last week a chap who wants a clockface on a wooden profile of a Duck he’d made phoned and asked to call and see what could be done. He’d made it for his grandaughter who was at Nursery school to teach her to tell the time. Took 10 minutes of my time before telling me he had 200 to do and had got sales agreements pending for many more!

Piece of artwork, put out to a digital printer….easy money!

One of many for me.

6 shirts for a scraggy xxxxx builder who’s moved to a new much bigger company and now I get all their printing work.

Sample for a local college student who’s since had many hundreds of pounds worth of stuff off of me and has just received some heavy financial backing to try to launch her design as a brand in it’s own right.

Is this falling on deaf ears (hot) (bully)

[Martin C]

I’ve sold these to various companies who are having shopping precinct promotions and want something to improve on simply sitting behind a table.

[Martin C]

Hope all is well with your littlun and she grows to be a luvvable pain in the xxx like my 11 and 13 year olds! 👿

Can’t believe you put a picture of Lulu up and claimed she’s your missus though 😕

[Martin C]

When I started sublimation printing on Mugs, I left the paper to cool and had to go through this process of ‘unsticking’ the transfer.

Now, I take it straight off as soon as it’s out of the press……..no more problems! 😀

[Martin C]

“…so you can see how by doing very little it’s less complex yet at the same time we show how modern you are whilst not offending your older customers

‘Where’s me rifle.!’ 😀 (:) (:) (:)

I think you’ve missed the point of this sign completely. The side panel montage simulates confusion yet the eye is drawn toward the sympathetically arranged glow of the orange main section leading the eye and the prospect to the store entrance. The sawn down ‘h’ symbolises the dawn of a new horizon, space for aggrandizement. The’o’ suggests endearment, like grandfather, head on one side listening intently to every word of his siblings suggesting suitability for children, and old codgers!

Basically, ‘we sawed a bit off the h, to give the typesetters something to do, stuck a bit of digital either side as it’s the in thing at the moment, used orange paint because we just lost the Sainsbury’s contract and the ‘o’…..that was just a cock up by the signfitter! 😀 (hot) (hot)

[Martin C]

There’s nothing hacks me off more than seeing the work of an overpaid ‘design’ team coming up with corporate identities that catch people’s attention because ‘they’re so quirky, ok yar!’

In my advertising days I really couldn’t seperate the creative tossers from the client tossers once they got on this holier than thou……….’you just don’t see it, do you Martin?’ wavelength! I never did, but did see a few creatives packing their bags 😆

There are strokes of genius, and Toys ‘R’ Us is a shining example but a wonky ‘o’ and sawn down ‘h’ smacks of creative constipation and I for one would dearly love to ‘service’ the creator of this signmaking masterpiece with an RS2000 exhaust pipe, baffles and all! 👿

[Martin C]

I didn’t get this bad in my ‘early learning’ stage 😀

If you like Brush Script type fonts but want an alternative, well balanced and readable style try a font called

‘Soubrette’ 😀

[Martin C]

£75 a day for a Plasterer! I’d lock him in the cupboard and hire him out!

I’m paying £210 including materials, probably 2 bags of muck at most to go flatten an artex ceiling! One days work max.

That’s daaaarn saaarth for yer I suppose! 🙁

I should add that this plasterer is excellent. 3 metre worktops in the kitchen, pushed to the wall, no more than 0.5mm out along the length! (angel)

[Martin C]

All I’ll say is Victory, Nelson….one eye………….and no arm to pick up the phone!

Yes, used them once, sent artwork to required spec, told couldn’t get good repro from it. Sent new artwork, manager was with customer, would call me to confirm artwork ok. Didn’t call. They went ahead anyway. Banners diabolical, white line down one side had to be trimmed off repro was wishy washy.

The price was very good, the customer service was second class!

Mine was a rush job and this was over a year ago so things may have changed.

[Martin C]

I have a ladder inherited from the next door neighbour who passed away 10 years ago. The ladder is wooden , only 7′ long with treads so worn there’s half the timber on each step than was intended. It sits outside gathering moss and has been kept out side for what must be 50 years! I use it for scaling my shed roof, getting in the loft etc.,

I’ve given it my own 16 stone jumpy uppy downy test and it’s so strong you wouldn’t believe it!

[Martin C]

Your post brought something to mind that was pointed out to me a few weeks ago at a school reunion. I was crap at metalwork, woodwork, physics, chemistry and scraped through ‘O’ level art.

Quite what qualifications I have to make signs I don’t know!!

I have renovated several houses and done my own bit of ‘Grand Design’ knocking 4 rooms off and adding seven at my current mansion! 😎

[Martin C]

An update on this one.

I bought some blank Yellow folding mini ‘A-Boards’ from a safety wear supplier. The sort of thing they put up in supermarkets, McD’s etc., when they are cleaning the floor. Made up the Danger Men Working Overhead stickers in vinyl and added the company name so they don’t get nicked.

I’ve been a little dissapointed with Result Hi-Viz from Ralawise which I believe are now made in China but have now found a supplier of Hi-Viz, good quality and good prices.

be pleased to receive link to davern as well though!! 😀

[Martin C]

No offence taken Dewi 😎

I worked at YP for a few months, long enough to know that it works well for people and long enough to know that it takes a strange animal to be able to sell it. I absolutely hated it as a job and wasn’t cut out to do exactly what you say, which is to hit, hourly, daily, weekly targets at all costs. Many of my colleagues would have sold their granny to make an extra buck so I know where you are coming from.

I always vowed that if I ever started a business of my own that I would go into YP. That’s how much I believed in it even though I detested every evangelical, apple giving, xxx creeping americanised whooping minute of it! Not for the times when business is good but for the re-assurance that someone might just call me when times are bad. That’s not very scientifically worked out but set against the other alternative which is to panic advertise when it does go quiet I’m happier doing it that way.

It’s good that your busy without YP. I’ve picked up a 12′ banner 3 vehicles and 10 t’s to do from YP last week alone! My problem is I’m too busy as well, and don’t know when I’ll get round to doing them!! 😀

[Martin C]

Thanks, £20 doesn’t sound too bad! Like the idea of the tinted spots and the glasses, unfortunately these banners will be rolled out at special events, slung up scaffolding, dragged across walls, all over the place and be seen by crowds of people. I could always try for the glasses franchise at the same time!! 😎

[Martin C]

I’d have taken that offer John, on the basis that you signwrote my van free of charge and if it brought me more business I’d pay for it!:D I’ve been put in that position before……….ooh er missus…………and when the customer says he monitors all of his calls, I’d ask for the response pad, the leads book, which obviously don’t exist!! It’s round about then I get told to xxxxxxxx!!!!!!!

Which comes down to the main problem with advertising. No one has an effective method for judging response.

Did the single T-shirt Yellow Pages customer, which was seen by his mates who bought 12 for a Stag weekend, where one of the lads worked for a larger company who needed 200 shirts for a special event pay for your advert. Or did you get one measly little order from it? 😕

This is one of the most critical outgoings any company has but the tag ‘marketing budget’ or ‘necessary evil’ somehow makes people think that it’s an area that needn’t be looked at in depth.

[Martin C]

I can’t digitally print. I’ve gone in at silly money, sprat to catch a mackerel with 2 banners and a large T-shirt order and haven’t left enough margin to go for anything dearer. Also as the banner is predominantly black text, vinyl works out a lot cheaper and I can keep it all in house……………when I find some ink!! 😕

[Martin C]

Rob,

I assume you mean screenprint Ink? Where’s the best place to buy small quantities and how much, quantity wise, should I ask for??

Also, will it last as well as vinyl, or even better?

[Martin C]

A fair bit for an ex rep to get his teeth into 👿 😀

quote :

Martin, but how many times have you twisted someones arm, or neglected to mention something to get that end of week sale?

That’s a leading question Dewi. If you mean have I ever mislead a customer then yes, and NO! What I mean is, if I told you that the A-list (weekly entertainments supplement) which I worked on for the Mirror would reach 2 million people in South east England who would see your advertisement am I lying?? The fact that 2 milion copies are distributed does not mean that 2 million people will read it, or see it. But that’s no different to you saying everyone will see your van with the new graphics. The fact is they won’t, most won’t care and your hoping that the graphics will pick up enough business to compete with Yellow Pages with no proof that that’s the case. Improvisation to hit a target…..? I can say that I’ve never taken a customers money without a solid case to back up the sale. Advertising is speculative and most people don’t monitor where the response comes from so it’s a double edged sword if your a salesman!

quote :

So if I have to see a rep, I have to make it short and sweet.

Nothing wrong with that Becky, it’s the people who put signs up saying No Reps seen without an appointment that are last to hear what their competitors are up to. Don’t forget that these are the people who have a better idea of how the markets performing in your area than you ever will. Great if you don’t need that info but I confess to re-visiting a guy who’d told me to xxxx off when he was holding a closing down sale. I’d originally been to see him to see if he wanted to advertise his kitchen showroom, knowing that he had a competitor moving in 100 yards down the road. He may not have advertised but at least he would have known what hit him…..hey, he could have tarted up his signage!! 😛

[Martin C]

Word of warning………….

Try and keep it low key.

Why?

As an ex YP salesman………..part of the sales kit is made of letters of complaint by irritated customers threatening to sue. The best was a full page Insurance company story that went in the local and some national papers. The heading………

‘Leaving ad out of Yellow Pages could mean bankruptcy for XYZ Insurance Firm’

In other words you couldn’t find a better testimonial if you’d held a gun to the guys head. There is a company so reliant on their YP ads for success that not going in the book would seriously affect their business.

[Martin C]

What courses would any budding Signmaker be taking at College? I know that’s an open ended question but I’m also thinking of getting someone on board on a part time basis and as we have the local Uni here in town it ‘s possible that they have a potential Leonardo (Da Vinci not De Caprio 😎 ) who could earn a few bob doing some design work.

[Martin C]

quote :

I don’t mean to be negative about another business like this but the YP really winds me up. They charge say £160 for an advertisement, but convieniently forget to mention the design costs and other related costs.

Did you ask? 😕

I never had any add on costs because I supplied my own artwork!

I fully understand why YP is seen as pricey but believe me you cannot fill a book full of advertising year in and year out if it doesn’t work!

Why are we not discussing the ‘Directory of Top Notch Sign Companies’
the ‘Local Book of Business Contacts’?? because YP has the marketplace and we all know that don’t we?? 😮

By the way I’m not on commission, 😀 I hated it when I worked there and it’s changed no end. I never fitted their sales mould but I’ll argue til I’m blue in the face that you’ve got to have a very strong case not to use it if your in a service/supply industry such as ours.

[Martin C]

Lol…… 😆

quote :

many time wasters and half wits out there with nothing better to do with their time than phone up small business with fictitious and half witted enquiries

😆

I’d love to see your customer services training manual Phil. I know what you mean though.

Although I’ve spouted on about YP my best ads are in small local Parish style magazines, £20 a quarter and leave em running til you drop dead and end up in the Local Funerals section!

[Martin C]

Anyone with any experience of advertising on the back of buses? Is it cost effective?

Yes………….and NO! I wouldn’t touch it. It’s above the line advertising that you have to do in a big way to be of any real use. 24 Buses is a lot of buses and I guess a lot of cost?

Thomsons Local is a much weaker and hence cheaper version of Yellow pages. I have a Yellow Pages manual somewhere giving you 20 reasons not to use it and they are valid! My experience is that it works for 1 in 10 people dependent very much on their location.

quote :

turns out that YP are going to start splitting their directories from next year

YP have been splitting their Directories for some years. The reason being that the books were quite simply becoming physically too big in some areas. Also as towns develop so do the number of businesses (including sign companies) and that reduces the likelihood of people phoning outside of their immediate location. It’s also a sales money spinner, offering cheaper ads in smaller less expensive to produce books with the opportunity of a cross sell into the old area at higher cost!

Slightly off the topic but if you’ve been watching The Property people on BBC 2, very upbeat, head up their xxxxxx salespeople it reminds me so much of my days at YP.

Briefly: 3 week Training course for 42 people. I came second (I went on the beer the night before the exam 🙄 ) The first week 2 people were sacked, one for a hangover, the other for falling alseep during the MD’s speech! 😆 😆 Week 2 and one guy had an accident in his company car, another got the keys and done a runner with his brand new motor! 😆 🙄 Week 3 and the course tutor was found naked romping in the hotel conference room with one of the pupils, was thrown out and banned so he couldn’t come to the passing out ceremony the next day!!

………..and after 6 weeks there were only 6 of us still left 😕

Happy dayz!

[Martin C]

This topic has come up before and always interests me no end as I used to sell Yellow Pages, Local radio, national papers etc., etc.,

Should you use Yellow Pages.

YES

100% absolutely, if it’s the only thing you do it WILL bring you business. Now whether it’s the sort of business you want is another matter but I’d rather have someone pitching me for a price than the phone never ringing. Do more calls mean more business? No, but more calls mean you can afford to select the better paying jobs and remember every small job could lead to more work.

I have an 8cm square and whilst it doesn’t do wonders it does work and pay for itself and you know the YP salesmans best close…………..?

‘Your company is reccomended by a customer of yours. In an ideal world he’ll write down your name and number and pass it on, in reality he’ll say……’there up on the Robjohns estate……look em up in Yellow Pages!’

A nice van……….they just catch your name and half a number………..they’ll look you up in Yellow Pages!’

With the onset of the web it’s response may be diluted and it hurts me to see £100 going out on advertising every month…but it works!

[Martin C]

I’ve been inundated with the single mug and T-shirt brigade of late but it’s been intermingled with some odd yet lucrative specials.

Currently quoting for 100 plus pairs of branded Boxing Gloves as a giveaway! Picked up 3 vehicles and some shirts to do next week, weather permitting. 4 smallish signs last week and a few odds and ends.

I guess that makes me busy too!

[Martin C]

For temporary Banners I use Tekton from Dorotape. Better known as Tyvek it’s an indestuctible olefin (!) or plasticy type paper. It’s 38″ deep and comes in rolls of 50 and 100 yds. Very strong and cheap too! A 4 metre x 965mm deep (12’x3′) Banner with fittings for £7.44 😀

It will accept any vinyl which is easily removed and can simply be cut off of the roll to any length and hung with Banner Ups, self adhesive grommets.

BUT in answer to your question I’ve used standard vinyl on plasticised banners and it’s ok for a few weeks but wouldn’t use it for longer.

[Martin C]

Does anyone ever drop a business card in when you see decorators tarting up a shop or ask for the owner and leave him your details?

I’ve done this on a number of occasions, it’s the salesman in me I can’t seem to shake off :cool:, but I rarely get anything from it but aggravation. I think they think that as I’m keen for their business that I’ll work my bits off on a design and undercut other prices which of course I would……..if they called me! 😕

S T R A N G E . . . . . . *hair*

[Martin C]

Dorotape Squeegees are £2.26 each or £21 for 10! 😀

In my case that’s a lifetime of Squeegees!

[Martin C]

Steve can I nick your copyright message or will you charge me £200! 😕

I’ve been meaning to add something like this to my designs but never got round to it.

I do the same as Simon and try to produce something that will get the business come hell or high water. I did have a customer ask what the score was if he took my design to another company if their quote was cheaper which I thought was refreshingly honest! I pointed out that the sign would probably have a very short shelf life………. (:) 😉

[Martin C]

A chippy near me has used it’s initiative and built a box about 14″ square around the base of the lamp post outside their shop. It has advertising on all 4 sides. I think it’s removable and only put out at opening times, and it does seem like an ingenious idea and perhaps a solution to the A-board ‘problem’?

[Martin C]

Thanks all. I’ll try the plumbers glue next time which I’ve used before but it doesn’t really answr my question as to what Foamex actually is? i.e. is it Plastic or PVC? Sorry to be so dumb but I wasn’t great at Biology at school 😕

[Martin C]

Call me an old cynic, but I reckon this is a bit of smart editing from my last birthday party, everyone was canned. Looks too smooth to be nuts and bolts?? 😕

[Martin C]

Many thanks Barna, 😀

I’ll give you a shout when the sites up and running and you can see the fruits of your help. 😀

😀

[Martin C]

Thanks Barna, I’ve tried them and they don’t have the sports I need!

Getting desperate now 😥

Here’s what I have and what I hope to match.

I have a GOLF Image with the green, the head of the putter, the shoes and the hole………….a sort of worms eye view.

I have a number of Horsey images………….again worms eye view plus a choice of harnesses etc.,

I NEED……….stumps and ball for Cricket……or an all action village green shot (don’t want name players)

A good action Football image

Darts

Tennis

all in a similar style!!

[Martin C]

On reflection should make the effort to say why they are no good to me 😳

The Creatas site want £69 per photo. As I need 10 pics that’s a no no. My budget is about £100!

The Budget Photo’s are compilation CD’s with lots of pics, not all Sport , and past experience suggests I’ll be left wanting!!? 🙁

[Martin C]

Thanks Stve, Simon. Had a look at both those sites and for different reasons (can’t exactly remember why, although one wants more than I want to pay for pics!) I’m still on the lookout……

Any more for any more?

[Martin C]

Don’t get the wrong idea about Xpres. They are a good company but my experiences have been iritating rather than life threatening!

My average order size is between 12-50 mixed pieces and I order transfer materials in as required. I was a little unhappy that my 3 metre order was no longer accepted. Yes, I could order 3 metres but it would be cut into 1 metre lengths. More wastage for me!

They changed there Subli Inks and didn’t tell me til I ordered next. Since the Ink change I’ve struggled to get good reproduction and only on my last call to technical services did someone run through the printer set up with me. This after 6 months and half a dozen calls.

They withheld an order, they hadn’t cleared my cheque, although they’d recived it some days before and didn’t phone me to advise the non delivery. This despite having been a customer for over 2 years.

If I felt there was a genuine inability to service the customer I’d have moved on long ago but they have the products, the experience and the know how. Perhaps being one of the best they feel you don’t have to worry too much about smaller customers??? 😕

[Martin C]

I’d go along with most of what has been said above but will add a few pointers from past experiences good and bad.

Jerzees, good stuff across the range but have an irritating habit of changing the spec, particularly during peak season. I was buying Burgundy T’s one week which then changed to another similar but not the same colour. It wasn’t a case of a different batch, these were so obviously made at a different factory!

I would keep your options open rather than stick with one particular brand. If you are ordering Navy or Black shirts they’ll always have a better feel to them because of the extra dye. Buy the same shirt in white and it’ll feel cheap! e.g. I use Hanes heavy T’s in Black but upgrade to the Beefy T in white.

There also some excellent ‘newcomers’ available from most suppliers. I bought a job lot of RTY T’s from Ralawise……….end of range stuff and they were fantastic quality, pity I didn’t buy them when they were a listed item. Slazenger are another new trade supplier and the ones I’ve had are well priced and great quality.

I have to echo your feelings about Charterhouse John, although they are still my chosen supplier at the moment mainly because I know which products best suit my needs. As for printing at 140, I print most of my stuff a good 10c above the reccomendations!

[Martin C]

Had this mail from my web hosts tonight.

Until now, all messages are scanned and given a score. If the score was
above 10, the message is deleted at the mail server. If the score is above
5 it is marked as spam.
Now, I have set the rule so that any mail sent to @warriorboxing.com that
has a score higher than 5 will be deleted.

It’s sorted out the problem I’ve had with SPAM mail (sorry Rob I can’t get you that Viagra you ordered now 😉 nor help with your other problem but tying a brick to it should help 😕 ) and will hopefully sort out the hotmail thing as well?

[Martin C]

By e-mail client……..do you mean who am I with? I’m with Freeserve.

and I’ve looked at setting up a rule Nigel, but there doesn’t seem to be an option to stop mail getting through . I have added the address to my Junk senders list but this hasn’t stopped it?? Aaaaaaaaaargh!!

Lorraine, I’ve mailed the guy who’s address it is so will see if his inbox is full soon?

Thanks all………..

[Martin C]

I’ve been looking around and will probably go with Tiscali, good price and heard no complaints about them. Unlike BT! 😕

[Martin C]

Scuse my ignorance Gordon, but how do I back up my Registry? 😕

[Martin C]

The Berlingo is made by Citroen not by Fiat…just in case you have the wrong outline!! 😕

[Martin C]

Thanks for that Mort, I’ve looked at the Spybot thing and on one Forum it says it can destroy certain parts of your registry if you don’t know what you are doing?

I admit that half the time I don’t so am a bit concerned about downloading it?

Also another quirk I have noticed is that my Fonts file keeps chganging? I lose some Fonts and these are replaced by others?? I have a full Virus checker…………………but does this sound like Spyware to you??

[Martin C]

Gordon,

You seem like a whizz with Explorer……..can you help with this one?

My chosen Homepage is Freeserve but I have some sort of pop up that replaces it with coolsearch.com

Despite going into Options and clicking Use Current page etc., for the homepage every other day it pops back to Coolsearch??

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Martin C]

YES, exactly like that!!

[Martin C]

To all,,

I have scripted fonts and CD’s with plenty of variety on them. I’ll try my best to explain what I mean…..

Say for example you had the word Signs and the S’s joined together underneath to form a Caligraphic marvel! Does that make sense?

I know how to draw stuff and weld etc., but these look likethey are part of a ready made set?/

I’ll have a search for the fonts mentioned to see if they are the ones.

Thanks

[Martin C]

i’ve had a look at the Signgo website (thanks dewi!) but can’t see that it does any more than my existing Corel Draw package? So for me it’s better the devil you know!

What I would like to find, and I’ve always assumed this was part of a Signwriting set up, is a Font or set of Fonts with the swishing tails and scrolled capitals?? Any ideas?

[Martin C]

(angel) (hot) (chat.) Have a *bigsmile* Jolly Joyous (hot) Yuletide y’all…………….. *rofl*

(hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) (hot) 😕

[Martin C]

Nice looking design, but I’d be a bit concerned with the images along the bottom edge of the Sprinter. This is where all the road muck ends up on my van, so it could look like they were selling dirty veg! 😕

[Martin C]

Thanks for all your advice everyone. Sone useful things for thought in there 😀 I’ll respond to some of your suggestions when I get a little more time…………………hic………..I’ve started Xmas early.hic

Jill, I have a wife………..but I also have a mother in law who runs a catering company. So when my wife’s not doing her regular daytime job she’s usually driving, washing up, waitressing, peeling potatoes, carving meat, preparing buffets, running to the cash and carry, cleaning tables, serving wine…………..and she helps me to weed about once a year………lazy cow 😉

[Martin C]

Not sure if it’s the same thing but there’s also a paper that is sprayed with some sort of fixative to make it ‘sublimate’ into cotton.

[Martin C]

A fine testament to throwing away of the layout book and doing what fits……….and looks best. Nice one!

[Martin C]

I have a friend that could be selling a plotter, 3 months old barely used. Not sure of the make though?

[Martin C]

A boxing mate of mine called his son Lennox Lewis, had the TV and papers round his house quick as a shot. His last child, another boy, and his wife insisted it should have a normal name, so he called him Marco Antonio. ….for 2 weeks until she realised it was another boxers name! Now the boy is called Gary or something like that, yet dad calls him Rocky! (hot)

[Martin C]

quote :

Or do we pay wad fulls of cash and still get the same monkeys?

Couldn’t agree more. Paying more money doesn’t mean your employee will work ‘harder’. It might mean they will work ‘smarter’ and it’s down to you to channel that ability into something positive for them and you. Otherwise that smart monkey will be off to build his own little tree in the next street!
(grab)