[Shane Drew]

I use STYLUS Extreme Bond Double sided Tape. Used to use 3M VHB but the new stuff from STYLUS beats it hands down. Comes in clear or white, 12mm, 18mm and 25mm (I think)

Should be available over your side of the world because I thought STYLUS were a UK company. Could be wrong tho’:wink:

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

That inferiority complex I have just got a huge boost 😥

Nice work tho Jill, I might go back to crayons I think. 😳

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

quote johnchilds:

Higgi..

A very good friend of mine was a ChemDry franchisee until very recently.

Very easy to copy. 😀 😀 😀

I do some ChemDry franchisees here too. Got the file in eps if you need it. If it is the same there as it is here of course 🙄

[Shane Drew]

I agree with what everyone else said

Ian’s advice is spot on.

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

quote johnchilds:

Isn’t it nice when something like that happens? 😀

If you want to squeeze a bit more pleasure out of it why not ring the client and ask him if he would like the job done properly now.

Enjoy the moment.

Thought about that too. Trouble is, looks like the bloke has closed up shop. Perhaps the other sign guy knew something after all 🙄

[Shane Drew]

quote Brian Hays:

Thanks Shane, might take you up on that. Could you email me your number please?

brian@impactgs.co.uk

done

[Shane Drew]

quote Brian Hays:

50???! 😮

Shane we are flying to Perth for a few days, then Melbourne, then meeting a friend in Albury. Then in Sydney for the New Year. Then we have another week not sure where yet tho.

Best not forget my sunscreen 😎

Perth – Really Hot sometimes – lots of flies. 🙄
Melbourne – More mild but can still get to 40 on a hot day 😎
Albury – lovely weather down there 😀 My inlaws are there – just far enough away from me here 🙄
Sydney – New Years – Usually pretty humid but they are having :lol1: unseasonal storms. Should be good by then tho. (I hope)
If you do make it up to Brisbane or the Gold Coast, I’d be happy to take you around for the day, throw you in the back of my work van. Let me know.

and yes…. definately don’t forget your sunscreen :lol1:

Take care, I am sure you will have a good time.

[Shane Drew]

quote Brian Hays:

Wish I was Paul!

Am off to Australia tomorrow for 3 weeks tho 😀 😎

Bring your togs, it was 50 deg c at Tweed Heads yesterday, that is assuming you are coming to the Gold Coast of course.

It is our storm season too on the queensland coast, so it may help to bring a brolly. The storms here can get pretty severe. The one 2 days ago took roofs off houses, and that is the 2nd serious storm we have had in a week.

Hope you have good time wherever you are going.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Ideally Nathan, the one man band fits as well.

From experince, finding a fitter is the least of your problems. Finding one you can trust is your first priority 🙄

shane

[Shane Drew]

Hi Nathan, and welcome.

Buddy, I’d take up Dewi’s offer. Even if you don’t learn anything, but you will I am sure, based on what I have read here over the time I have been associated with the UKSB, I think Dewi would probably know the answers to a lot, if not all of the questions you have floating around your head.

I am not much chop on PS, and I thought I was pretty good on Corel 10 until I started seeing some of Stevo’s posts. Now I have developed an Corel inferiority complax because Stevo is da man! 😀

My only advice would be to go into this industry with your eyes open, which based on you original post, you clearly are.

The graphtec is a good plotter, had one for many years with no problems. I have Rolands now, and I am equally impressed.

Cheers, and all the best for your new endeavour.

[Shane Drew]

ooopppsss had the darn thing the whole time on the MR disc.

I find the MR cd’s pretty well useless most times, so I didn’t even look this time. Sorry

Thanks mate

[Shane Drew]

Red Dragon,

I do understand where you are coming from. But I think the point is being missed here.

I bought the PC50, one of the first sales they made in my area… but that is another thread… I still have nightmares.

I was a sign maker that saw label printing as a need to service my client base because if I didn’t someone else would. The point is, I didn’t go in, guns blazing, destroying the prices that my opposition were charging. I was accutely aware that I needed to maintain the margins that the industry had settled on to be viable.

I didn’t buy the machine to generate ‘beer money’ for want of a better phrase. I was not a cowboy because it was an extension of my sole income, or as you say, diversifying, but I maintined margins that were within the industry.

In this day and age, with computerisation, we see a lot of allied industries, sublimation, embroidery, computer cut, digital print, photo reproduction, etc I could go on.

To diversify is one thing. To buy a machine to generate business with no intention of making it anymore than an opportunity to make quick cash, and have no care if they ‘dumb down’ that industry, they are a cowboy. To diversify, and learn and want to improve is good. The secret in my mind anyway, is that they have the long term view, not the short sighted view.

Your view would be to charge a traditional hand painter as a cowboy if they purchase a cutter. They are not, because it is allied to the industry they are already in. If they then butchered the prices for vinyl signs, with no regard for the industry or margins to keep the business viable, then yes, I would call them a cowboy too.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote bigdaveakers:

I have never and will never openly advertise my services but if someone wants me to do signs for them I will. I could never make a business of it as I would have to give up my real job!

If I were to make a go at it, I dont see how I would be ‘dumbing down’ the industry by providing a quality service at reduced cost. Is this not what the consumer demands? Same product for less?

Or have I got it all wrong and signmakers earn so much money that they need not worry about the cost when buying products?

I think from my perspective bigdaveakers, that this statement got me a little ‘heated’.

I also think it is healthy that subjects like this get out in the open. It is a pretty standard conversation here when a few signies get together over a beer, from time to time.

Personally, I have seen some arguments here from a different light, and I perhaps have a better understanding of how others view the same subject now.

But at the end of the day, I have an investment of nearly $200,000 in machinery, software and associated equipment.

I don’t need opposition that have no intention of playing fair. I am sorry that you have been in my line-of-site. I wish you well in your future endeavours…. just don’t approach my client base 🙄

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote andy12:

quote dsi:

(I define a cowboy as someone who dabbles in the sign industry but does not rely on its income to make a livin
Cheers
Shane

Shane, I don’t think that is a fair statement.
Are you saying that everyone who is trying to learn the trade is a cowboy unless they rely onit’s income to make a living?
Best not be a student then 😀

Being a student implies they are willing to learn, or they have a teacher or mentor, or want to be a good sign guy.

One would presume then that the mentor or teacher would give the student the heads up on pricing, conduct etc etc. You could also presume that the student was keen to learn, keen to maintain good margins, keen to make the business worthwhile for the long term. If that was the case, I’d consider them a newbie, wouldn’t you?

But, if they were trying to learn the trade so they could make better beer money, or they had no intention of making the sign business their main income in the short term, then yes mate, they are a cowboy, and my previous view stands 😛

I think simon makes a good point. He could easily take the ‘quick buck’ attitude, but the man clearly has a morality when it comes to business. I take my hat off to him. :thumbsup:

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Nice Job Dman,

Pity you left the coast. We need more good shops down there. Losing one of the better guys is unfortunate. Good for the UK, bad for OZ.

Who did you work for/or trade as over here. I thought Bremner signs did Care Flights work?

All the best for your new digs anyway. Sorry to see you go.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

many thanks

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Carrie:

We have had a few clients that we have had to provide this info for .. usually the larger companies. I have copies if ever you need to see what exactly they are. Very easy to complete, you keep the same layout and just change the details.

Carrie 😀

We have to fill out these forms here for any large company. Most will not let you onsite until you provide proof of a $20 million public liability policy. By law here, you must have the proof on your person to be produced onsite at any time you are asked for it. Typically tho, you provide the proof before your quote is accepted, and that is then kept on file.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Big G, I do not include you as a newie at all. I’ve learnt from your posts in the past and I’ll continue to learn. I have learnt from a few here, Dewi too.

As I said, you are entitled to disagree, that is democracy isn’t it? It is good to get an argument like this open for discussion. We can each see each others point of view. We can form our own opinions, and we will be better educated as a result.

Clearly, you guys are in a different environment to me here in Australia.

We have one street here locally that has 8 sign shops within walking distance of each other. 3 signs shops are next door to each other. THAT is competition. And I have two clients in that same street that still prefer to deal with me that their 8 neighbours.

I have 5 signs shops in opposition to me within a 1 kilometer radius. 3 shops are like me, professional and in it for the long haul. 2 are cowboys. They steal business from the long term guys, charge stupid prices for beer money, and generally make it difficult to make a living locally. Nearly all my work is around 35 kilometres from my base. I do very little work around my office.

You can perhaps understand why I am so passionate. Ask any of my professional opposition, and it will be the number 1 reason that erks us in the industry.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Well said Dewi.

I am sorry bigdaveakers will always be a cowboy to me. As dewi said, I wonder if he would have the same feelings if his ‘real job’ was at threat to similar circumstances.

I am also sorry but bigdaveakers over simplification of the situation is breathtaking in its naivety.

I know some of you don’t agree, and I can fully accept that, I am a realist.

I can look back on nearly 20 years of experience, as can Jill I am sure. Experience is a wonderful thing, it beats theory anytime.

Most posters here are, by their answers, seeing the immediate to short term picture. From experience, some of us here know how this has already affected our industry.

If bigdaveakers didn’t have a ‘real job’ to fall back on and pay his ‘real bills’ I don’t think he would be so flippant.

This is my ‘real job’ and it has to pay my ‘real bills’. I don’t have the luxury of having a ‘real pay packet’ guaranteed every week. Every job I lose to a cowboy like bigdaveakers is literally food from my table, money from my mortgage, fees from my kids schooling.

I am sorry if I am passionate about my future, I am sorry that the newer ones here don’t understand the long term devaluing of our worth.

Yes competition is good for business, I say bring it on. On a level playing field I will stand toe to toe to anyone. I will win some, I will lose some. That is competition.

But competing with someone who has the luxury of not having to make a ‘real profit’ and to compete in the ‘real market’ is not a level playing field. They devalue my worth, devalue the industry, and devalue my experience.

Yes bigdaveakers, you did start a post that was rather entertaining. Your flippant sarcasm showed in glaring terms tho how you have’ not got a clue’ what Jill and I have concerns about, and in true cowboy terms, you obviously don’t care.

(I define a cowboy as someone who dabbles in the sign industry but does not rely on its income to make a living)

I respect each posters opinion tho, and it has let me form a better idea of who each of you are, and what you stand for. It is not as good as meeting you in person, but I suppose it is the best that I can hope for.

The beauty of this site is that we can all have our say, and disagree or agree as we like. It all makes for a healthy forum.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Beeline images are excellent as Rob says.

My caution with searching on google is that you may have copyright problems. Because you can download them, does not mean you can use them. Especially if you want to produce them commercially.

I know it may sound obvious, but I felt the need to say it anyway. What can I say… I am a born worrier 😥

cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Sorry I can not use your services here in OZ, as a thankyou for your generosity, but you can sleep well knowing that you have given this sign guy a warm fuzzy feeling from downunder.

It will go some way to ease the pain of losing the world cup to you lot :lol1:

[Shane Drew]

quote evox:

Its hardly suprising with what some signmakers charge,just seen a job done by a local signmaker who charged in my opinion about £500 labour for no more than 3 hours work. we would all like to make that sort of money on a regular basis, but then you can understand people wanting to save money and do it themselves and personaly i think he has done a great job of the car. Just my opinion.

(I missed this post earlier..sorry) I know what your saying here mate, but what a lot of people don’t appreciate, is how much time did the sign maker spend getting to the point of actually putting up the sign?

Best rule of thumb I have found is that the actual fitting of the sign is only 33% of the whole job. A third would be designing and selling the job, a third cutting, weeding, and travel, and a third materials and fitting.

As an example, I have a client 40 klms away with a large duty free store. I am in the middle of doing a store restyle. He does not like to deal over the phone or with email. So, to make any changes I have to drive to him. That is a 1.5 hour round trip, and I have done it three times so far.

When you see my final job, and look at what I’ll be charging, you will probably think it is excessive. But, I will have to build the travel and time wasting in to the final price or the job will not be worth doing.

What I suppose I am trying to say here, in a typically long winded fashion, is that there may be many variables that may have accounted for the price. The sign guy could well be a crook too, but I’d prefer to give him the benefit of doubt. I certainly wouldn’t like to be judged by my peers without them knowing the full story.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Very clever mate.

I had an australian customer that actually lived in Japan and wanted his new bus that he had bought here in australia, to look like a Melbourne tram. Spent days doing drawings and studying what the old trams looked like, then we used wood grain tape on the bus, over windows etc. When it was finished, the bloke flew out from Japan, liked what he saw, paid us in cash, then hoped back on a plane to Japan, all in the same day.

Strangest thing ever happened to me in years.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Dewi.

A cowboy is definately not a newbie. I will, and have, always encouraged new sign guys in our industry. I will come to the aid of my opposition anytime they need help, even if they are in my same location. I want to be around for many more years, and have my kids continue in my shoes. There is nothing wrong in knowing your opposition, and being sociable.

Anyone reading this post that is starting out and needs help only needs to ask, especially here as Rob has a given us all a good opportunity to express ourselves. All I say to anyone getting into the trade, or anyone thinking it is a quick way to make a buck, is this; think of this industry as a long term not short term career; look at providing service and support and its associated costs, and always learn from each job. I am always finding better ways to do things, or improve, as Dewi said in his post. I am happy to share if it will help others.

Jill and I have spent a lot of time ‘paying our dues’, and yes it does ‘erk’ me that some cowboys are being basically dishonest in their dealings with the public. But I am a realist. I know that you can not appeal to a cowboys conscience because from experince, I have found that they don’t have one 😥

Now, I am off to bed :lol1:

[Shane Drew]

[quote="big G"]Analogy time. I recently had a quote to tile my bathroom floor. Expensive I thought. So, I bought all the kit necessary and did it myself saving myself hundreds of quids. A few of my family and friends have since asked me to do a bit of tiling for them, as I have the required kit. What’s the difference? Have I just ‘dumbed down’ the tiling trade?

quote]

Yes Big G, you have in effect told a tiler who has done a 4 year apprentership that you are ‘as good as he is’. a tiler would argue that you have infact ‘dumbed down’ the tiling trade.

I think the point is being missed here. I think Jill and I are on the same wave length here, both of us are long term sign shops after all.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with the original post, the guy that buys his own machine to do his own car, and a few mates. Frankly I think the original price he was quoted by a sign shop was a bit excessive, but your UK market may be a lot different to my australian market.

The way I see it is this. I pride myself in knowing what product suits what application. I test each new product that comes out to see if it fits my needs, or the promises the manufacturer makes. I was one of the first shops in Australia top reject the 3M e film. Remember that disaster? I was pretty vocal over here. It was rubbish. 3M sent a technical guy up from Sydney (1000klm away) to convince me otherwise. The biggest distributor on the east coast flew up to spend the day with me to ease my concerns too.

I knew I was right. I said nothing until I did my homework. 3M had $1000’s of claims, and they eventually withdrew the product.

You know who bought all the stock the professional companies would not buy? The backyard cowboys that knew no better. 6 months later, they had failures everywhere. You know who were affected by it? Our whole industry. If these guys knew their stuff, it would not have happened.

We have these cowboys that quote the wrong materials for the application. I have lost count of the amount of guys that I go up against that undercut me by 40 or 50%. The are using cheap crap, and I am using good stuff. The client thinks I am ripping him off because the price differential. They call ME the crook. Don’t get me wrong. I have no problem losing a quote against a company the uses an equal product. It happens, and we all move on.

But, when it fails in 6 months, the clients are too embarrased to ring me, or they look for someone else to replace it with better material and the same cheap rate. That kills our industry. Just as the tiler offers knowledge, experience and a warranty for his services, which is reflected in the price, we should, as a professional, have the margin to offer the same.

The Australian State Governments here, in conjunction with The Australian Sign Association is licensing sign shops, and those members actively advertise being members. Only companies that have a license will be permited to do any job that requires fixing to a wall, or being mounted in concrete, or taller than 3000mm. It is a bit extreme, and in truth is another tax from the governments perspective, but it has been welcomed by most professionals in our industry, to try and keep a level of quality and accountability.

Clearly, there are arguments for both sides, but frankly, if you are in this for the long term, you will find the cowboys will eventually cost you a lot of good business. I speak from a lot of experience, as does Jill I am sure.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

more than likely

[Shane Drew]

Are you looking for the font LowWe?

---

Attachments:

[Shane Drew]

Hi Mate,

I run an exhaust fan out the wall. Reduces the smell significantly, but not totally. Once it is sucked out it disperses quickly and can not be smelt outside at all.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Macky D:

Professionalism, good marketing, design talent and original thought should always keep the quality jobs coming in. When the effort and expense is becoming too much to keep ahead of all the clones then either give up or invest, expand your volumes and develop new service offerings and start the cycle again. OK thats easier said than done but its the reality.Macky D

You are right mate. I chose to invest in new equipment. This year I have spent $AU80,000 to leap to a new market, and hopefully more profitable. The thing is, I am not undercutting the new market I find myself in. I am happy to match the prices, as the margins are not bad. Certainly you can make a living to support the family, which is all I want anyway.

In truth, I have an upgrade path that sees me upgrade my computers, monitors and printers every 6 to 9 months.

At the end of the day tho, I rely heavily on the reputation I have with the market, the service I offer, and the product I produce. I have not advertised for business since 1996, so I should be grateful.

More and more tho you do get these guys that last 12 months before they decide to move on to another industry, but in the mean time they have stuffed up your market.

I am not affended bigdaveakers, and I don’t mean to affend you either, but it does seem a crime to make a profit in some sectors of our market.

OK I am off my soap box again 😥

Shane

[Shane Drew]

ah yes Kev, the old ‘customer knows best’ syndrome. Happens to me all the time. 🙄

Of course, the customer is always right :lol1:

Good job,

cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

I agree with Jill.

I lost two really big clients recently because Spandex realised they were buying a lot of product from me, so called on them directly, convincing them that they could do it cheaper by buying the gear from them and employing an unemployed sign guy. They have done it to me twice.

They have also approached all the Race Car teams here (v8 Supercars especially) ( http://www.v8supercars.com.au ) and now they nearly all have their own cutters. The bonus to them is they still sell tape supplies, but they have cut people like me out of the loop.

I did a heap of race cars a few years ago, now those same teams have their own cutters from spandex.

Thus, the spandex rep is no longer welcome in my place, and they know it! 👿

I’ll get off my soapbox now and get back to work.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Well done mate.

Only thing I would have done different
is to have cut out the outline inside the zeros

Outside Contour cuts are fine with most graphics, but
text looks a bit odd if the inside of closed letters is not done.

Just my thought.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Dewi:

For flat signage, the best way to overlay to my mind is using registration marks, you get an accurate fit everytime providing you line up the marks correctly. There are other ways to do it, clear app being one of them, but it relies on lining up by eye, and if you’ve had a heavy night the night before, you’re eyes aren’t the best precision tools 😉

Cheers, Dewi

Using registration marks, but with clear backing and clear app tape, you can still hinge them with no dramas. Lets you see through both the app tape and backing, making the registration marks easier to line up.

The hinge method, especially on glass and laying many colours, using this combination is the easiest application technique you can get.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Dewi, try the 851, it is not a bad product either.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Dewi, some clears are better than others. I gave up on the poly tapes years ago. I only use the good stuff, you get what you pay for. You are right though, anything over a metre can be a drama either way. The good stuff grabs too well, the cheap stuff does not hold. Humidity is usually the killer with clear tapes.

Anyway, that said, 3M should have distributors all over the UK. Have no idea who they are being ‘down under’ and all, but I am sure our friends on the boards here should know of some around.

If in doubt, go to http://www.3m.com and search I suppose 😉

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Dewi:

I always use Oracal 751, but I do that many windows, if there’s an easier vinyl to apply on windows, it’d be great to know about.

Cheers, Dewi

Dewi, hats off mate. You’ve done a good job of this. Every right to be proud of this one. 🙂

I do a lot of window signs, always on the inside. Although I use 751 & 851 pretty much exclusively, if I am laying up several colours, I will always use 3M 7725, with the clear polyester back. (-)

That way, if you use clear app tape too, you can line each colour up on the glass, using the hinge method. Makes it a snap to do dry, and you have not got the problem of not seeing what you are doing as you go. I find the paper backing makes it harder as you are ‘flying blind’ until you expose the glue.

Just a thought mate. Makes the job infinately easier. :thumbup2:

Keep up the good work,

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Brian, not really sure to be honest. I do a bit of work for the breweries here, so I’ll ask someone if you like.

How long before your daughter graduates?

Shane

[Shane Drew]

http://www.wantedfonts.com/

and this one….

Cheers again
Shane

[Shane Drew]

http://www.fontgarden.com/index.html

Worth a visit too

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote signs elite:

Hey Shane ive got a bottle of bunndy rum (1991 vintage) thats better than xxxx
?

Brian,

We don’t talk much about bundy rum around these parts since they sold out to some overseas crowd. 😥 You know how perocial us qlders can be. 🙄

1991 vintage…. mate how has that lasted so long. 😉 I just finished a 2004 vintage the other day. any grog older than a year in my house gets used for cooking around here 😳

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

I think you should get in the queue for the Shania date mate.

Be quicker to settle for a xxxx instead 🙄

Remember, you are only a day older than yesterday. It is less depressing that way.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

can not say much more than has already been said…. welcome to the boards.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Welcome Rachel.

Tough break the boss leaving. Who is the boss now?

Have no fear asking questions here. They are a very helpful lot, not to mention very talented and full of knowledge 🙄

An avatar would be nice too

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Justin, after reading your post, I feel I have known you for years :lol1:

Welcome to the boards.

They are a good lot here. Even way down here in OZ, I can contribute and learn.

All the best for your future ventures.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Graham, I am running the techinks bulk system on my new Roland sc540.

The cost savings are huge.

The teckink system has one of the finest pigments grades there are, even finer than the original roland inks.

I have experience no problems at all, Techink have given the system a lot of thought. The Techink resellers here are the same people that sold me my roland, so they have no conflict here, apart from roland who have expressed their disappointment that they are losing my cartridge sales.

Although my machine is still under roland warranty, techink are so confident that their system will work as good as the original, they have taken over the head warranty of my machine for the next 6 months.

Interestingly, when they convert the roland ink pumps over to techink, they actually install JV3 pumps. They are clearly the same pump, but the JV3 uses better plastics ib the lines, as the eco inks on the roland does not need to use the stronger plastics.

Anyway, I can vouch for the techink product, and the cost savings are huge over the cartridges.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Sorry John, didn’t mean to come across like you did not know what you were doing.

Please accept my apologies, it was unintentional. It is nearly midnight here, and I am keeping an eye on the boards while I work 🙄 Think I should call it a night and get some shut eye 😥

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Hi John,

To be honest I just do it freehand, but having done this type of thing for over 10 years, I accept that I may be more experienced than others.

A straight edge is good, but you do run the risk of it slipping unless it has a rubber base.

If you are a bit worried about getting a ‘smooth’ line, I would run some sign writers tape around the area you are thinking of cutting. When you are happy with the line, use it as a guide.

Use a new blade, and a very light pressure. To keep the cut as smooth as you can, try to cut faster rather than slower. The slower you go the less likely you are to have a clean line. (every time you stop you will tend to go off line or dip)

Hope that helps John.

Just remember, with a new blade, you will require almost no pressure for it to cut. Let the blade do the work.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

John, I’d overprint and trim on the vehicle.

Gives you the best chance of a perfect fit, as long as you have a steady hand.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote DaveBruce:

Panel wipe, is that not expensive? I use the tar and adhesive remover from Auto….. whatever they are called, I am sure it is much cheaper.

Cheers

Dave

Never heard of panel wipe over here, but tar and grease remover is all I use, without any drama’s. A quick machine buff is the final step. A panel shop would probably do a better job. May be worth an investment of 50 quid. 😕

Here in OZ, using petrol like Marcella suggests is technically against the law here. Our government work place health and safety people would have a litigation field day if we were discovered using that method. 🙄

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Welcome from Australia Graham.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

that job is a blast! (sorry, couldn’t resist that 🙄 ) well done

As big G said, I’d love to see a full view when your finished

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

Welcome to the boards, from Australia :lol1:

Collectively, there is a wealth of knowledge here. Just ask and someone will have the answer I’m sure.

All the best with your new venture

Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Dewi:

Do you find they work well as a promotional item though? I was thinking of sticking them to vans, but I think I may have the odd strange look and the occassional thump 😉

Cheers, Dewi

Dewi, I have no hestitation in telling you that the business card size filing cabinet magnetics (thats is a mouthful!) have been extremely successful for my business. It is now the only promotion I do.

I used to print note pads, but when they were used up, you have lost any more opportunity to keep your name out in front of people.

If the magnetis are good qualty, I’d hazard a guess that people will be less likely to throw them out. Different matter if they were cheap and nasty.

I am toying with doubling the size and putting a yearly calendar on them as well as my logo. But then, it only has a life of 12 months, whereas my normal magnets have no ‘use by date’.

Leave them on your vehicle. Some people may think you have ‘lost it’, but at least they will know who you are. Even if they refer to you as the bloke that leaves the magnets on his vehicle, at least they talk about you!! 🙄

Works for me….

[Shane Drew]

Yes Dewi, Foil stamping as it is known here, is probably the cheapest option, but as you say, the colour limitation is its downfall.

I tried something similar with my old PC50 several years ago, but anyone that had a PC50 would know that I was flogging a dead horse 🙄 So darn slow 😕

I’d love to know how you go.

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

I buy them ready made from http://www.martinprint.com.au

Martin does all my contract printing work, and supplies all over the world.

He prints to a substrate, then laminates it over magnetic material, and then die cuts it as well.

All you have to do is send him your artwork in Corel or eps or ai and he does the rest.

I email him my file and then forget about any hassles. They take about 14 days to do, then he sends them to you by freight or post.

I did hear that a printable magnetic sheet is coming on to the market shortly, that will let you print directly to the magnetic sheets using a solvent printer, and then score it with the knife (on a print and cut machine ideally) and you will have your own ready made, any shape magnetic. Don’t know the cost yet, but I have already told the supplier to send me some when it lands in Australia.

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

Hi Mate,

No they are physically a magnet. .6mm thick (car magnet is .8 or .9) and they are the same size as a business card 90mm x 55mm.

The aluminium ones have usually just got a magnetic patch in the back. They are not very popular here.

The clear ones are more a business card with a bit of flair. They are popular here, but I feel the magnet isa better because it does not get lost in a card index. On the filing cabinet they always see it.

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

I found one!

Do you still need it?

cheers

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starlet.eps

[Shane Drew]

I found one!

Do you still need it?

cheers

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starlet.eps

[Shane Drew]

got a hiace if it helps

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hiacelwb.eps

[Shane Drew]

I totally agree with everything said here. But Rodney makes a good point.

Don’t go cheap! I did a mailout to my local businesses close to my office, and included a very good quality Fridge Magnet, although I referred to it as a Filing Cabinet Magnet in the letter.

I was not a cheap product, but it looked really good, and was full colour. I also invited them to give me call me if they needed any free advice on their next sign design.

I got one of my biggest customers from that one letter. They have spent $20,000 with me this year alone. They told me they thought they would try me based on my professional approach. The sign guy they used originally never offered anything for nothing. He didn’t even have a signed van.

Even now, in my local community, my Filing Cabinet Magnets are found everywhere. Best money I ever spent. I don’t have business cards anymore. My magnets are the same size, and are the perfect replacement. If I am onsite, I leave magnets on the outside of my van too. There is alway some missing when I leave a site.

The other thing to remember is that you should personally follow up any introductory letter within 3 days. After that, most people have forgotten you sent it.

As already stated tho, the best approach is a cold call. If you see a sign that looks bad, knock on the door and tell them you would like to offer your services to make it better. The key to this approach is that you should have a couple of ideas in your head already, and have a general thought as to how much you will charge.

The first thing a cold called person will ask is ‘how much will it cost’ or ‘what would you do to make it better’.

Finally, I get a lot of business just by being friendly. Say hello to everbody when you work on a job, people are always attracted to friendly tradesmen.

I have not advertised for business since 1996. All my work is referral. Some of the contracts I have got is simply by saying hello to others on site when I arrive, and goodbye to everyone when I leave.

The best thing about that is it costs nothing.

Hope this helps 😛

Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote autosign:

Put a copyright notice on the artwork that states it is your intellectual property and may not be reproduced without your permission. If you later see it driving about call them up and tell them you’ll be sending them an invoice for artwork..

I have tried the (c) notice too. When I challenged the former client, he dared me to take it to court. When I made enquiries, it was going to cost me $150 to $200 for a solictior to draft a ‘legal’ letter, which the client would probably ignore. Then, to take it to court, it would cost me $1500 to brief a Barrister… then there was no guarrantee that the client would not challenge the deision if he lost…. more money for legals….. 😥

I walked away: Client 1 – me 0

As they say; don’t confuse justice with the law

No artwork without a deposit is the best option from my perspective.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote signs elite:

Oh sorry just a quick question for DSI I lived in Brisbane for a while & i remmember there was a lot of lettering on windows…brush work with really attractive bright colours do they still do that ….for some reason they dont do this in the uk so much, dont no why

Regards Brian

Ps lived in wynumm near manly ….& worked for a company called Des greenwood signs in capalaba sorry spellings mabe a bit out

Hi Brian, Wynnum/Manly is a wonderful part of town. Really trendy now too, so you will pay a motza for houses there these days.

GREENWOOD SIGNS Unit 5/ 284 Old Cleveland Rd East Capalaba 4157 (617) 3245 4711 ? I don’t have anything to do with them, as I am in Logan City, and I never go to that part of town. They are still around though.

Brush work here is a dying trade unfortunately. A lot of guys are retiring and we have no apprenticeships for hand brush work anymore, although the Sign Association is trying to get one reinstated at the Brisbane TAFE.

I employed two brush signers but had to let them go because of a lack of brush work. Labour rates are a bit high here, and people always seem to be looking to save money. Computer Cut signs have taken over in most sectors of the market here now. Airbrush work is really big here now though, and although it is hard to find a really talented airbrusher, they do exists. A lot of brush guys and gals are specialising in that area now.

No doubt it is the same over there.

[Shane Drew]

Well Done :clap2:

Look forward to seeing more of your talent.

Feel sorry for you working in the cold tho. I worked last night at midnight, and it was 20 deg c, and I was complaining, And today it was 34 deg c and I was complaining again, heavens knows what I would have been saying if snow was coming :lol1:

Seriously though, don’t worry about the brandy in future. You have an obvious talent, that with the help of the many experienced sign guys and girls here, will only help you get better.

Cheers, and keep up the good work.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Mate, I feel for you. Had this happened to me a few times. Done all the hard yards, gave the customer a printout, then they give it to another sign shop to reproduce at a cheaper rate, because they did not have to sit for an hour or two and do the original art.

I no longer give artwork out to the client until I have an undertaking that I have actuall got the job.

I let them see a copy, but they don’t take the copy with them until I have been given the go ahead, or I have a deposit to start.

If I don’t know the client at all, I’ll price the job first, and not do any artwork until I have the go ahead based on the price.

Either way you will upset some people, and it is unfortunate that some sign shops will welcome the opportunity to steal another shops artwork.

If I am approached by someone with ready made art, I’ll ask who did the original design. If it was an opposition sign shop, I tell them that I’d prefer to do my own artwork.

If it was a designer, they will have their name on it somewhere.

Until all sign shops are united on this, the idea of giving artwork out without a firm go ahead, will always be risky business.

I quoted on one job that took me 2 days of measuring and design, quoted over $5000 for the job. The client gave my artwork to another shop. He saved the 2 days to do the measure and design, and undercut me by $500. I still get upset everytime I drive past the now completed job (hot)

[Shane Drew]

Hi Dewi,

WE get pens here in OZ too. Some company in the states sends them out.

This is the 3rd time we have got a pen, with our name engraved on them and all. We’ll probably order some of these this time around, as they are fairly good quality.

Talking to a company that does similar mail outs here in Australia too. They work on percenatges. Apparently the % that reply with an order is very impressive. Certainly worth the excercise from all accounts.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

The font is slipstream, and I am pretty sure it is in the public domain.

Find it here http://se.allthingswood.com/exchange/fonts/

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

quote widget:

ONE SIDE LOOKS OK I THINK

Hi Widget. Wow this post has moved on since I last visited…

The important part you need to consider in any design is what it looks like on both sides. Glad you have decided to do the second side.

The key is simplicity.

It is generally recognised that people will form an opinion about a sign in seconds. First impressions count.

I get 1 or 2 jobs a week from people pulling me over in the street, and my van is not overly ‘flash’. But people comment on how good my van looks. Instead of heaps of text, I used reflective material so at night, it stands out in a crowd.

Just my view.

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[Shane Drew]

A tube….. sorta like a tyre tube… it is something you sit on when going down a water slide. :lol1: These ones take two people…….

cheers

[Shane Drew]

quote leethesign99:

pull off the protective film” ……yep – you’ve guessed it – off came the b……..y lettering with it. I’d put it on top of the film!

Crikey! I have done this too. 😳

I did a 4 jobs for one of the theme parks here. All 1200mm x 1800mm powdercoated signs, huge posts in concrete etc. Client gave us a map of the park, with an X to mark the spot for each sign.

We dutifully installed them, with each having a warning sign stating that ‘absolutely No Tubes allowed on this water slide’

I get a call from the client 2 weeks later, telling me to remove one of the signs. We had installed a ‘No Tubes’ sign at, you guessed it, the Tube Slide!

The client had approved the artwork, without actually reading it. 🙄

Thing that I could not get over, it was not until an american visitor threatened to sue them for not letting a tube on the tube ride that anyone even noticed. Proves that few people read warning signs anyway 🙁

[Shane Drew]

Have to agree with Rodney here.

I have been using the Roland RIP since I got my new machine 4 months ago

I have used other RIPs but this is the easiest I have ever had the opportunity to use in the past.

I only ever use eps files, and I have never had a problem. Nesting can be a problem granted, but it is usually related to the imported file, not the RIP itself.

I was never trained on the RIP either. It came with my machine but the company that I purchased it from did not see a need to train me as they considered it so easy to use. I was up and running on my own in 1 hour.

To be fair tho, the company did match the ICC profiles to the materials I use, so I would have no problem producing a good print.

I am sorry you are having difficulty, it may be worth getting whoever you purchased the software from to come out and do some explaining. It would be worth it, if not just to save getting a bigger bald spot!

Hope it all works out in the long run.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

one more….

An old man died and left his talking parrot to his nephew.

Unfortunately, the old man’s language was not the cleanest, and it would
seem that the parrot picked up on this. The nephew did not like this, and
tried to break the parrot of its swearing habit. He tried everything. He
played religious music, he was kind to the bird, he spent long hours
trying to teach it manners. Finally, one day, he became so frustrated, he
threw the parrot into the freezer.

“There,” he said. “Maybe he’ll cool off in there.”

For the first few seconds, the parrot swore a blue streak inside that
freezer. Then, suddenly, the parrot fell silent.

A few moments later, the nephew heard from within the freezer, “If you
would be so kind as to let me out, I promise to rectify my unsavory
vocabulary.”

Shocked and surprised, the nephew quickly opened the door and removed the
chilly but sedate bird. Before he could say anything, however, the parrot
spoke.

“If you don’t mind, may I ask what the chicken did?”

[Shane Drew]

A farmer named Muldoon lived alone in the countryside with a pet dog which he loved and doted on. After many long years of companionship, the dog finally died so Muldoon went to the parish priest:

“Father, my dear old dog is dead. Could you be saying a mass for the creature?”

Father Patrick replied, “I am so very sorry to hear about your dog`s death. But, unfortunately we cannot have services for an animal in the church. However, there`s a new denomination down the road, no telling what they believe, but maybe they`ll do something for the animal.”

Muldoon said, “I`ll go right now. Do you think $500 is enough to donate for the service?”

Father Patrick: “$500?, $500?! – Why didn`t you tell me the dog was Catholic?!”

[Shane Drew]

An Amish boy and his father were visiting a mall. They were amazed by almost everything they saw, but especially by two shiny, silver walls that could move apart and back together again.

The boy asked his father, “What is this, Father?”

The father [never having seen an elevator] responded “Son, I have never seen anything like this in my life, I don’t know what it is.”

While the boy and his father were watching wide-eyed, an old lady in a wheel chair rolled up to the moving walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady rolled between them into a small room.

The walls closed and the boy and his father watched small circles of lights with numbers above the walls light up.

They continued to watch the circles light up in the reverse direction.

The walls opened up again and a beautiful 24-year-old woman stepped out.

The father yells to his son, “Hurry boy – go get your mother!”

[Shane Drew]

quote lasabledps:

.

If I may suggest that you ‘Initial cap’ the – Sales – Repairs – MOT Testing of Diesel and Petrol, I think that would be less aggressive than all caps, plus it would make the MOT more prominent as you have done in the first sign.

I agree with everyone else here Steve, the bottom is the better choice. Mark makes a good point too.

It would be nice to have some buildings with history over here, other than old jails reminding us of our convict past 😕

Well done,

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

I use photo zoom to enalrge my digital camera photos beyond what you would normally acheive without pixelation.

I can recommend it for anyone using the digital media

http://www.trulyphotomagic.com/shortcut … urproducts

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

The downside mate is that we have the highest rate of Skin Cancer in the World. You have to cover up anyway 🙄

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

Hi Tim.

Upgrade set me back a little over $7000 once they credited me for my unused soljet inks. That includes upgrading the pumps to JV3 solvent ones.

Inks are 50% the cost of soljet inks too, so I am looking forward to the savings in the long term.

Sounds to me that the scan motor and the head problem is related. I assume the scan motor is what drives the head? You’ll know by now no doubt, so I’d love to know the answer incase it happens to me. 🙄

Had no media jams yet thank goodness.

So far so good with the new inks. Printed all day today, only thing the smell gets a bit much by the end of the day. Still waiting on the bloke to install my exhaust fan. Said he’d be back today – have not seen hide nor hair of him 😥

Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

welcome aboard 🙂

don’t have an office in australia do you? Good sign installers are a rare breed over here.

The guy I use is brilliant but we certainly have a shortage of reliable guys here.

Hope you find the site usefull.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Never been a huge fan of red on blue, but other than that it is a nice clean look, that looks professional.

The other thing I may have done myself is used the word ‘and’ instead of ‘&’, just to take up a bit more space, because you have plenty of room.

Good job. 😀

[Shane Drew]

Changed from Norton some time back. Went with Computer Associates E Trust until my sub expired last year. The renewal was a bit dear so I changed to AVG7. Firtsly I used the free version to check it out, then when I changed to the pay version, it is a totally new program.

Have had not cause for complaint.

Norton had a few ‘issues’ when I was originally using it, which is why I changed in the first place.

Have no idea what later versions are like tho.

This probably is no help to you, but thought I’d post anyway.

Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote stuartt5:

Also, How do you describe the work it can do. Is it ‘digital media’, ‘Full colour artwork’ or something else?

Stuart, in australia we sell what we do as ‘wide format printing’ or just ‘digital printing’.

As far as pictures go, there are some great community Royalty Free sites that sell hi res photos very cheap. I use http://www.istockphoto.com a lot. I have printed several photos down the side of my van, and they get a lot of attention.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Hi from downunder Alison,

They really are a great bunch here. Keep in touch.

(And get an avatar online quickly before Carrie notices you don’t have one yet ) :lol1:

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

this is my effort

I’d use red reflective to get extra impact at night 😛

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[Shane Drew]

for my money I’d lose the “ and just have ‘ instead

shane

[Shane Drew]

Agree with everyone here. An excellent first attempt. But…. using a script font in all uppercase is generally considered one of those design sins that should never be ignored.

Good job tho, well done. :thumbsup:

Shane

[Shane Drew]

Thanks for the time to answer that question Lee.

Never been to your neck of the woods either, but we generally do not have issues with room sizes in the area I come from.

Thanks again

[Shane Drew]

I agree Becky. These scammers should be caught and treated like the common criminals they are.

Personally, I stopped buying through ebay years ago.

In australia, our police force even has a division that monitors ebay in australia for obvious crimes. Sadly, they are inundated with claims every week of being ripped off.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention too. I’ll mention this link in my next newsletter.

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

gooday from OZ Roy

cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

Hi Tim,

Mate, I have been there too with machines that let you down. I am a small operation, and I rely heavily on everything working when it needs to, or I get behind and…. well….. its not pretty here some days.

To answer you other questions;

Do you guys clear laminate all your jobs? No. Most of my work is in tourism sectors; theme parks, tour coaches, advertising companies. Anything that is of a temporary nature, I just print with no laminate. Only jobs that will be in heavy traffic areas I will laminate manually.

I use mainly Orajet 3551g as my primary vinyl, and I’ll clear coat it with either Orajet clear film, oracal 551 or Graphicoat liguid laminate, again manually.

If I produce car magnets, I’ll print them and then cover them with a 551 clear to protect it. If I am printing an outdoor sign, say 2400×1200, I’ll apply a graphicoat coat, and I always graphicoat banners.

I am not a big fan of Avery products, and I don’t use them at all. Oracal is my 1st preference. Spandex, as a company, have let me down too many times. Australian Sign Supplies have the best staff of any supplier here in Qld, so they get my business first everytime.

Orajet 3850 has had good comments, but I have not used it yet. I have lightboxes to sign next week so I’ll give it a try

The ecosol ink does damage easy if you don’t be careful for the fist few hours after printing. I normally give it an hour or two to dry, then I’ll premask it. I don’t remove the premask until it is ready to be sent out to the client. That way it is always protected from the elements, or heavy handed staff. 😮

I have, just yesterday, converted my soljet to a full solvent unit thru Australian Sign Supplies http://www.australiansignsupplies.com.au . In a word, it is brilliant. the same brilliant colour, but really duarable. It was a bit of expense, but money well spent. Mine is the first machine they have done in OZ, although they have over 20 installations on other brands all over australia, and they warrant the print heads for the remainder of my manufacturers warranty, and they set it up with training as well. If you want me to send you some samples, please just ask.

Also if you do clear laminate do you use a laminator? I do have a 1370mm wide laminator, but it is old, and I rarely use it now. I have got in to the habit of doing it by hand now without any, or many, disasters 🙄 I do it dry if possible, but wet if I have to.

The graphicoat system is a little disappointing, but OK for banner work. No good for hi class jobs tho.

There is a crowd in sydney that contracts to the trade for laminating big jobs, but in truth, I’ll probably buy my own liquid laminating machine next year. If I can find a local sign shop with one, I will probably pay them to do it in the mean time, although using real solvent inks now, my need for this will be reduced.

As far as printing on lots of media, I agree. The only thing I try and do is have set days for set media. Then, if I have a job come in that is to be printed on paper, I know that I’ll have other paper jobs on tuesady, so I try and do them all on the same day. Does not always work, but when it does work out, I get heaps more done in a day.

Tim, I am happy to help you any way I can. Wodonga is a lovely part of OZ, and I know how isolated you can be from the big smoke. If you are stuck for some printing, and I can help, just call me (0419 722 199) Are you a member of the SAA?

If I can send you a sample of something that you want to see, send me your eps and I’ll print it and post it back.

Cheers, and keep in touch.

Shane Drew
shane@signs.au.bz
http://www.signs.au.bz

[Shane Drew]

Adding to Johnchilds comments, always use the same brand or material if alignment is critical. Don’t use, say, avery 5 year as one colour and oracal 7 year as another. Alignment will always be a problem as both tapes will cut differently.

Also, cut the tape in the same direction. some people will cut in a way to save material, but if you cut one length ways, and turn the other 90 deg to save tape, the alignment will also be different.

As Rob advised tho, the easiest is the layer method, once you start doing it that way, you’ll never go back to the old way.

Cheers

[Shane Drew]

I usually export in corel as a tif (cmyk) or jpg (rgb) or eps.

Tif or jpg I usually export to size at 300dpi.

They are large files but the quality is always good.

cheers

[Shane Drew]

OK I’ll bite

What is a fitted bedroom anyway? 😳

Nice work tho

Shane

[Shane Drew]

not familiar with the brand here in oz,

I’d steer clear of anything with silicon when it comes to vinyl tho.

The others here would have a better idea of the glue I’d suggest. but I’d still suggest it is water bloom based on the fact that here in oz, most 3 year films are not solvent adhesive.

Good idea to leave it a couple of days

Cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

I have a client that has been with his bank for over 20 years. He is a wealthy man by anyones standard.

Went to his bank to borrow $2mil and the bank charged him a $50,000 introduction fee.

When he questioned them as to what an ‘introduction fee’ was, they said it was their charge to ‘right up’ the paperwork.

He has a business that turns over Millions a year, and he gave them 5 minutes to withdraw the charge, or he’d change banks.

They didn’t, and he moved his account to another bank within the hour, got his loan with the new bank, plus a better interest rate.

I’d love to be able to do that to my bank!! 😕

[Shane Drew]

Tim, sorry you have had so much problem with your roland.

I have had my sc540 for 4 months, had a thermostat blow last month (first time ever this part has failed in australia I’m told) but outside that, I love this machine.

My clients love the results (used to have a hp3500cp) and it has opened up new markets for me.

The machine never stops, and I can say that it seems bulletproof.

I have had a roland 1000mm cutter for 8 years never had a problem at all. That what prompted me to go with the soljet as opposed to the JV3.

I rang a warranty centre for both soljets and JV3 before I purchased, and they said the JV3 was by far the most popular machine for warranty calls.

When they came out to do the warranty repair the other day, the tech said the same thing.

The local JV3 dealer has 2 repair techs on staff for out of warranty repairs, the local soljet agent has one.

I would be asking roland for an explanation though.

I hope it goes better for you when it is finally up and running again.

Cheers, and keep you chin up. I know it is easier said than done tho 😥

[Shane Drew]

What type of vinyl did you use? Sounds like the adhesive may have been water based? Usually this white milky look would disappear in a few days. happens some times with the cheaper Avery materials.

Doing the window dry is the best option, or use a solvent adhesive material that will not be affected by water.

got a picture of it you can post?

cheers
Shane

[Shane Drew]

or these

hope these ideas give you food for thought

cheers
Shane

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[Shane Drew]

A bit too casual, Widget. looks a bit ‘untidy’ to my mind.

Casual is OK, but has to be done really well not to look cheap and nasty.

For my money, I’d concentrate on getting a really catchy logo. Then you have one of the most difficult parts done. Your logo will then dictate the rest of your style.

I am a great believer in having a graphic in a logo. Having said that, designing a logo for anyone else is heaps easier than designing your own

graphics can say more than words sometimes

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[Shane Drew]

I use corel 10. As the others have already said, you need to set some time aside and just experiment.

I’d use the online tutorial to get a quick overview too.

cheers

[Shane Drew]

This is an interesting read, if you are interested in the spam problem.

http://www.spamprimer.com/

Cheers