[David Milisock]

Unles you’re laser engraving you have your concept of color management in a difficult place

[David Milisock]

Hello the issue with bringing in PDF files to CorelDRAW and maintaining color integrity can be a complicated process. This is due to the many different methods of publishing PDF files.

To step into it right off the bat I will state that the MAC and PC Adobe user is the worst offender as their standard procedure does not embedd color profiles into the PDF. Distiller published PDF also has no embedded color profile.

CorelDRAW X5 and X6 embedd color profiles into the PDF and so will Adobe products if done so responsibly.

My suggestion is to set CorelDRAW to the color management standards for your region. My only suggestion from the default color management setting from installation would be to use perceptual rendering instead of relative colorimetric. Open or import away.

Feel free to send a test PDF to davidmilisock@graphictechnology.com my web site has information at http://www.graphictechnology.com with more information to com very soon.

[David Milisock]

quote Chris Wool:

annoyingly after altering a file sometimes it drops the spot colour name but keeps the correct cmyk values.
we find this with the roland spot colours like metallics and its not all of one colour but only part of it.
so some text may print correctly but the logo next to it just prints the cmyk value not the roland colour. when you go back to the file you see that the name is missing of the spot colour on the faulty part.
clicking the spot name again restores it correctly then prints ok. very annoying if not spotted in versaworks preview.
x3 by the way
any ideas please

c

Questions,
Operating System?
All service packs and updates for the OS?
X3 do you have all the patches?
What version of Versaworks?
Do you use a custom pallet

[David Milisock]

quote Cheryl Smith:

In England…
I can still use Corel…but its this one glitch I have with it….im the same as you…I really like Coreldraw…there are some problems with colour matching when sent to print…but that generally gets sorted.

Send me your Adobe and Corel color management settings and I can sort that out.

[David Milisock]

quote Cheryl Smith:

Hi David…thanks for the pointer..
Mac has a 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3.
running windows XP in parallel..
I love my mac…but was ‘brought up’ with CorelDraw which I love…
I think i might do a ticket for parallels to try sort it out…id really rather not shell out to windows if at all possible… if anything it is ‘making’ me use illustrator alot more to learn to use it…

Cheryl

Where in the world are you? I ask because it seems that software pricing outside the U.S. is something else. Here Windows is $125.

Illustrator just never fits my work flow, we could argue features and everything but that’s a waste of time, I do signs and general print and CorelDRAW fits like a glove, Illustrator just has too many limitations for me. I can’t even do a multi-page business card layout and send a mult-ipage PDF without a plug-in

[David Milisock]

quote Cheryl Smith:

im not ‘blaming’ corel…id just like it to work….goodness knows ive done soooo much to be able to run corel draw…ive used it since year dot…..it used to work….now it doesnt…blinkin frustrating

Do you have a PC MAC? That’s an Intel based MAC, if so try using dual boot and actually run Windows 7 64 bit on it. I know of several doing it and they like it but I’m sure it’s not for everyone.

[David Milisock]

quote John Hughes:

Dave, have a read through this Coreldraw forum topic – which is still running and where I found the CM document.
All very confusing – well to me anyway!

John

The thing about color management is that it’s best though of as a completion backwards principle. I.E. where am I going? Is it ICC color managed all the way? Is it properly calbrated.

for the most part the answer to the last question is no and therin lies the biggest issue.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

Ah David replied, I still need to finish reading your documents on Colour management in Corel

It is a sore topic for those who don’t follow it, not all versions of Corel are the same, X5 & X6 are the first to offer “what you see on the screen is what you should get near” quality.

>X5 & X6 are the first to offer "what you see on the screen is what you should get near" quality.
Not quite true, the problem being that there was, (until I wrote my X4 book) no proper instruction on how to set up CorelDRAW color management. With that said X5 was the first version of CorelDRAW where the color management didn’t speak Canadian Klingon!

[David Milisock]

quote John Hughes:

When designing / drawing etc do you have your work space set in CMYK or RGB ?
Just been on Corel forum and the consensus is that RGB is best and let the RIP convert to CMYK.
Appreciated that colour management is complicated, to say the least, but would be interested to know what you use.

Cheers
John

Assuming your RIP honors embedded profiles or that you properly use an assumed color space set up on the RIP. Pure hues, (yellow, magents ECT) can be an issue of how the media profile was built.

Your design color space is dependent upon your desired outcome. If you’re attempting to match corporate identities then it’s best to utilize the color space in their file.

Spot colors can be tricky, some people let them convert at the RIP, however depending on the age of the RIP and if it’s been kept up to date conversions in the same shop on different RIPS can produce different results. Matching Adobe conversions can be difficult as Adobe has not kept up with Pantone specifications, I simply use CorelDRAW X6 or X5 and convert spot color to RGB using the LAB specification.

RGB elements in your file should be no issue as long as the media profile is properly gray balanced, preserves pure hues and the RIP honors embedded profiles or you use an assumed color space work flow.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

I been putting X6 64bit demo with SSD thru it’s paces on a test machine… its FAST, very FAST indeed

Works fine for me too.

[David Milisock]

quote Cheryl Smith:

I dont use the pc…it just opens corel for me tis all….you ribber Dave!

I’m in sign business is the U.S. and couldn’t image using Adobe or the MAC as my mainstay, I’ve been in printing since 1975 and dumped both for my work, the MAC about 5 years ago and Adobe before that. I just kept them around to handle the files. I still have CS 5.5 for the PC but just for the file handling I never create with it bu thave no MACS at all.

[David Milisock]

quote Mike Grant:

Yes you can. Use the “plastic” filter in Photopaint. Copy lettering to clipboard, open in Photopaint and select Effects – Texture – Plastic, Simples!

You can creat the text and size it properly in CorelDRAW, place a rectangle with no outline around it slightly bigger and save the file, this removes any text clipping during rasterization. Open in Photo-PAINT rasterizing at the required resolution with a transparent background. Select the object create a mask and apply emboss or plastic. Does this make sense to you?

[David Milisock]

quote Gareth Lewis:

Good morning all!

Is it possible to achieve this effect in corel x4 or 12?

That’s a simple task in Photo-PAINT X4 or newer

[David Milisock]

quote Shane Drew:

I run 12, x3 and x5 on various systems at work. I still run XP because my signwizard 5 doesn’t like win7. I run win ultimate on my two main machines, so x5 is on those. The older versions are strictly for emergencies. As I’m a contract printer too, some of my sign clients only run the older versions, so I load them up on them to rip them across, so the newer versions don’t change their colour output.

x5 does some strange colour shades if you load the v12 file into x5 before you send it to the rip. The new colour drivers in x5 are the best yet, but not always the outcome clients are expecting if they have produced the file on an older corel version.

Matching older versions of color fromCorelDARW can be difficult for a few reasons, one older versions alowed improper color work (non-ICC comliant) and the Kodak engine is nmo longer there as well as newer versions of Windowsd use MS ICM CM 3 and Xp used MS ICM 2.2

[David Milisock]

quote Alan Drury:

I think you can upgrade to X6 from any version for a period of 90 days after that you can only upgrade X4 and X5. Please confirm that with Corel if you are thinking of upgrading an early version.
Corel are committed to make X6 run properly in Win 8 I’m not sure of the policy for earlier versions.
Alan D

I know I’m going to sound like a bad guy here but in my opinion Corel needs to stop supporting old hardware and operating systems. The programming issue get too complicated and it a user wants to support a Windows XP and older system this needs to be the last version Corel works on that with.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

Your not the only one with multi installations David…

Also, there is warning about Scanner drivers and 64bit, so that is also worth noting. How will non-64bit drivers work with sign making equipment will be interesting test for those who want the power

Yes running several Operating systems makes life interesting, that’s why I started dressing like Donna Reed.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

yep cutters are driver based… the majority of people here have them

x6 is snappy agreed

I’m running it on 8 systems, 7 are 32 bit, 1 is XP, 6 are Vista and 1 is Windows 7 64 bit with 16 gigs of RAM.

I use RIP devices only and have been very happy. Driver based in plug-in based cutting is something that Corel should work with device providers in the Alpha and BETA stage to insure immediate support.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

Just a warning

last time X5 came out it too Graphtec (and some other vinyl cutter manfacturers) months to update the cutter software, so if you do buy it you must install in a separate folder and keep your previous version of Corel on the machine.

We had many posts here last time about people messed up as they lost their previous version and also Windows 7 incompatibilities

Can I assume that the posts for cutters wer from those using driver based application based cutting rather than RIP based cutting?

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

1 week before sign uk .. as last time

Excellent

http://www.corel.com/static/product_con … Matrix.pdf

It runs well too

[David Milisock]

quote Shane Drew:

quote David Milisock:

Do you mean the software named Estimate? If so I feel your pain.

Yes, 🙁

Looking for another product atm…..

They wrote the software on a MAC, and they can’t reproduce my problems as they don’t run a win7/ultimate PC for testing.

They tell me ‘technically, it should work’ but it clearly doesn’t. I’ve sent them screen dumps of all my settings, and samples of the problems. They seem to have washed their hands of the problems, so I moved back from the bells and whistles licensed version, to the older version I own.

Huge backward step, but at least my dates work. I have a two license version, but I can’t use the second network workstation as it sees the newer version on my computer so comes up with errors. I can’t remove the read only newer version as I need to look up old quotes as the data isn’t backward compatible 🙁

You have to love the programmers on this one! 🙁

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

hmm… i am aware of a 5mtr page size limit on PDFs but I blame acrobat for now showing the page as the data is very much there as RIPs. They will RIP fine.

I am keeping my eye on Hybrid SSD at the moment, waiting for that to mature

The 32 bit limit is different from the 64 bit limit it seems.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

you lot are depressing me… the advantage of Win7 is the memory access over 4GB!

My main system is a Windows 7 64 bit Pro system with 16 gig of RAM and a SSD drive Windows boot is 18 seconds, no issues except the PS issue with PDF it has a 3900 SQ" limit and there are some device issue with older device all my true 64 bit applications run well. Estimate is a QuatroPro based relational data base estimating program i believe programmed by gremlins.

[David Milisock]

quote Otto Peltonen:

quote Shane Drew:

I do have some stability issues since I upgraded to windows ultimate.

Same here. Annoying, isn´t it? When upgrading to ultimate I thought I was “taking a step forward”…

I find that the best way for me so far was CLEAN INSTALLS. wiping the system a format and then install

[David Milisock]

quote Shane Drew:

I have Corel x5 and do everything on it, although I still prefer my dedicated sign software for my vinyl cutting,

Print wise, x5 has fewer problems when exporting or importing pdf’s than previous versions. I do have some stability issues since I upgraded to windows ultimate. Frankly, it drives me to distraction sometimes, but I’ve concluded it is probably a microsoft problem as my RIP has similar issues since the upgrade too.

I had to move back to an older version of ‘Estimate’ software because the dates wouldn’t configure correctly once I went to ultimate either, so I’m thinking there are still a few bugs in Win7/64 that Mr Gates is choosing to ignore.

Do you mean the software named Estimate? If so I feel your pain.

[David Milisock]

quote Alan Drury:

One of the few photos I have that doesn’t make me look like a convict or a simpleton and even that one doesn’t do me any favours.:)
Alan D

Well since you were so well dressed I placed an image of myself on this site.

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

VBA/Visual Basic for Applications is a programming language that allows Corel to be manipulated in many ways, mainly to create shortcuts to common tasks.

VBA scripts are available online for fees and most commonly here is programs like Graphtec’s Cutting Master (which drives Graphtec plotters) which is made up on some VBA scripts and pure program code.

Some editions of Corel does not come with VBA installed or has the option of choosing it upon installation, so therefore people have wasted their money if they are trying to get it working with a cutting plotter.

You’re dead on I always buy the full version with documentation as the product comes with tons of other stuff and the books do have some value

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

he’s been wearing that ever since he joined

Some dudes just like to show off! 😀

[David Milisock]

quote Alan Drury:

Please do, All my printing is done by others and my own colour management knowledge is relatively limited. If you can answer some of the CM questions that pop up here I’m sure it will benefit everybody.

Alan D

We’ll see what we can do, nice Tux BTW.

[David Milisock]

quote Alan Drury:

Just for the record, David is an authority on colour management and well known within the Corel circles. I personally have learnt a great deal from his posts in other forums.
Alan D

Hi Alan figured I’d chime in on a few things here

[David Milisock]

quote Dave Rowland:

I had no end of trouble with X5 even after the SP and seriously thinking about PC upgrades now.
We returned to X3 with XP as it was more stable.

Colour management has been very sore subject recenty at our place, as our printers are more accurate then the JV3. So its starting to notice a lot more.

I need to get X5 working well, main issue currently is Jumping text between the text tool and the pointer.

What operating system do you run X5 on? Are there other versions of CorelDRAW running on this system?

All programs that support XP, Vista and Windows 7 are in my opinion sensitive as well as the 64 bit OS’s. All my Adobe products act differently in significant ways depending on the OS corelDRAW X5 is in my opinion sensitive to being installed properly. In my opinion Corel needs to drop XP support. Please list some of your issues and feel free to contact me at davidmilisock@graphictechnology.com

[David Milisock]

quote John Hughes:

David, what are your settings in Color Management ?

Just curious really as we are quite happy but good to know what others are using.

We mainly output for solvent printing.

John

For most print work I use Adobe RGB, a light UCR GCR Kodak CMYK profile that shipped with CorelDRAW 12 ( I believe) it is gen50cmyk.icm. Standard default 20% dot gain grayscale. The WCS color engine, perceptual rendering,as thisworks real well and is very close to the non-ICC compliant setting in Adobe of relative colorimetric with black point compensation, I do not preserve pure black and I map gray to CMYK black. I map spot colors to LAB and I check all warning boxes for missing and missmatched profile.

If the size limitatitions is not over the maximum I use native color PDF if it’s too big I use EPS. I also use tif files if required and all my print devices run custiom media profiles and the presses use postscript color management. If you need Corel color profiles (those that shipped with older versions) feel free to contact me at
:police: Please take a moment to look over our Board Rules.

[David Milisock]

CorelDRAW X5 has been extremely reliable for me so far, of course I have 6 dedicated graphics only machines, using Windows XP Pro 32 bit, Vista 32 bit Ultimate and Windows 7 64 Bit Pro. I use it for multiple types of work from high end press work, vinyl cutting, dimensional letters to conceptual work. The color management for the professional end is dead on. I’m interested to see if Corel continues it’s trend toward professional level feature support, improving filters and output capabilities.

[David Milisock]

If you’re upgrading with this package it looks as if you’re in for a bit of a pinch for other software upgrades. May be worth while if you can get to the 64 bit versions. My advice is to stay put until you get 64 bit software in terms of operating systems and applications. I’m on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, with 16 gig of RAM and a solid state drive, CorelDRAW X5, (as my main software) Adobe CS5 when I’m forced into it.

[David Milisock]

C. Neither Adobe or Corel support embedding ICC profiles in the CS2 orX3 suite.

THIS SHOULD READ, in EPS files.
Neither Adobe or Corel support embedding ICC profiles in EPS files in the CS2 orX3 suite.

[David Milisock]

Ok Jerry I have time to get back at this subject. The list you want to accomplish, A, I e-mailed you an EPS from Draw, I assume it worked as you have not e-mailed me to say it failed. B, Corel does not support RGB objects in any for of postscript except as Corel published PDF in native color. Corel does support RGB images in postscript. C. Neither Adobe or Corel support embedding ICC profiles in the CS2 orX3 suite. D creating ICC profies for each vector application is technically incorrect. ICC profiles are either a color space or a device specific profile. They are to be loaded into applications to coordinate color control so application specific ICC profiles are counter intuitive.

Running out of time again. I use ICC profiles in many major workflows and with all postscript compliant graphic applications both MAC and PC when used properly they all work fine.

[David Milisock]

Ok Jerry your post is rather long and I may not have time for all the issues today but I will address all of them one at a time starting at the top.

First the short answer for me is to tell you yo go to http://www.coreldrawpro.com buy the magazine and read the last several issues. Most of your color management questions will be answered there. Changing, adding or removing ICC profiles in Corel has been dumbed down to the point that in my opinion it was made difficult. ( So easy a technician has trouble with it) What I can tell you here is that CorelDRAW color management is fully functional.

The first rule is that color management is a postscript game if you’re using PCL drivers or some false (Power RIP) that is in reality a PCL driver color management is going to be difficult. As all PCL requires that the file be converted to a ratser RGB during the creation of the PCL stream and Corel does not support RGB objects in PCL of postscript streams.

Now Corel does not support embedding ICC profiles with CMYK files, Draw or Photo-PAINT. I understand the argument here but it is really moot. Corel will convert RGB files to CMYK during export to a selected CMYK profile. To output that file using the selected color space all one needs do is send along the ICC profile and and output provider can set that ICC profile as their source CMYK vector and image color space. With that said all EPS, PS and PDF files are popstscript so the rules of postscript color management come into play. What that means is that the color space arrays and color remdering dictionaries for the file are passed along through the postscript file to the printers and or RIP. If you’re sending your properly created CMYK files to a plate or film setter any ICC profiles will be useless anyway as the file will be processed across the media linearization dot gain curve for the setter.

I use Onyx RIPs which are Jaws Rips for myink jets. All profesional graphics applications, Quark, the Adobe CS2 Suite and the CorelDRAW X3 as well as version 12 Graphics suite can have their color management set up to print and or export files that will print as close to identically as one could possibly want.

If you are not getting results of equal quality from all the professional level applications then I would from my experience suggest that you’re either using PCL or that your color management setting are incorrect.

More to come.

[David Milisock]

Unfortunately there are many falsehoods posted and printed about CorelDRAW, mostly from Adobe and MAC users. I have been printing professional level output from CorelDRAW and Photo-PAINT since 1994 and the issues that occur with Corel EPS, PS or PDF are the same issues that pop up with Adobe or Quark files. NON-postscript compliant file creation, just poor or lazy designers and limitations due to RIP and print driver design.

I have used Corel EPS,PS and PDF in Agfa Apogee, Heidelberg Meta Dimensions, Rampage, Onyx, Feiry and Graphics Global Harlequin Express workflows jut to name a few.