[John Lyons]

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[John Lyons]

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[John Lyons]

Nice one Chris spot on (if you know what I mean).

Putting my commercial hat on for a second…. I haven’t come across any S.P. LED Tubes…. That’s not to say they don’t exist but.
Companies tend to make products to fulfill a specific requirement.. I.E. They don’t make fixtures that slightly illuminate. SO I have some questions.

What’s your idea of "slightly illuminate", in lumens please?
Ah ok so it outdoors – what’s the ambient lighting and how does this effect your slight illumination?
Do you need the LED fixture to be IP rated?
SO you want it to be seen at night, from what distance 1 ft, 10ft, 100ft?
What Colour do you want the LEDs?
Do you have a budget for Custom manufacture?
OK How much of the sign do you want illuminated, i.e. the perimeter, the perimeter plus 20% of the total sign, or do you want the total sign illuminated.
What colour is the Sign? (LED colours have specific effects on the colours they illuminate)
What material is the sign made from? ( Will the Sign absorb, reflect or refract the light)
Have you worked with LEDs before? LOL…..

[John Lyons]

Any comments Chris.

[John Lyons]

Hi David, (Thanks Chris)
Can you be a little more specific, what are you trying to achieve, Why solar power to generate even low lumen output from an LED you require lots of Solar power modules!

LEDs & Power!
LEDs are different from conventional lighting systems in that they are electronic components with specific power needs. If the power is wrong, the lamps can burn out or the fixtures in your lighting system will produce light of varying brightness. Why? LEDs require current limiting. For example, if you connect an LED directly to a battery it would burn out because it tries to suck out all the power it can. To limit the current, all LED circuits need a limiting device in line with the LEDs.

There are two types of power supplies, regulated and unregulated:
• Regulated, constant current power supply – This supplies a specific current to the fixture, and the units are rated by their amp output. For example, a 500ma power supply will provide exactly 500ma, but to do this, it may have to raise or drop the voltage. In this example, the fixture needs to be designed with enough LEDs that it draws 500ma of current.

• Regulated, constant voltage power supply – This supplies a constant voltage. For example, a 12 volt, 500ma power supply will provide exactly 12 volts regardless of the current draw, whether it’s 100ma or 500ma. Since the voltage varies, a limiting device, such as a resistor, is required on the LED circuit board.

• Non-regulated (linear) power supply – This requires that the LED fixture be designed with power regulating circuitry. A 12 volt, 500ma power supply provides 12 volts with a 500ma load. But, if the load is only 100ma, the voltage can rise to 18 volts. 200ma loads can bring the voltage up to 16 volts. So depending on the current load, the voltage would change.

If you want to understand how efficiently Solar Power can drive LEDS, buy some from B&Q and put them in your garden, then try to read a book with the light from the B&Q solar powered garden lights……. See what I mean…..

On the other hand you might have a budget of 1,000,000 and try to engineer a solar powered regulated PSU…… Cool Project.

[John Lyons]

I was going to comment but, I think thats ends this thread.

[John Lyons]

This is good stuff….

I’m of the opinion that LEDs are just a different way of doing something, there is no right or wrong, just good ways and bad ways….

The points I would make is of course uneducated in the signage field, but having travelled extensively in the US they would appear to be light years ahead to Europe on acceptance and use of signage, our planning laws are different and far more conservative then in the US, as a result signage development happens much faster. The point I’m making is that perhaps your neon manufacturers are rushed off their feet not because neon is better then LEDs, but because European Businesses are finally giving signage the attention it deserves in differentiating one biasness from another and finding new ways to build a brand name to attract more custom.

I’m not sure I understand your last point, as light bulbs have been used in signage for a very very long time and are still being used. I would also make the point that LEDs are defiantly not light bulbs. They are a semiconductor that only allows passage of electrical current in one direction.

[John Lyons]

Thanks for the comments Chris,
You are correct to a degree, I don’t prefer LEDs, they are just a components in the systems we design, their flexibility and colour rendition are second to none, the technical expertise required to successfully implement them is however quite high…

Never had a single problem with dry joints, This is simply down to the design of the package and the method used to manufacture and test the LED, of course things go wrong with the manufacturing process, I could tell you some funny and no so funny stories.

IP ratings most of our kit is either – IP66 for LEDS, IP67 for cable connectors and IP67 for PSU,s. Again, this is down to design, you simply have to test it, then test it again, until you are sure that the fixture is not only 100% watertight, but should someone put the fixture down to 10m that is will still work. Building in a healthy margin of error should always be in there, customers will always do the unexpected.

But as I said in my earlier posts, there are LEDs and then there are LEDS, and unfortunately Good LEDS are expensive, its as simple as that. If you use something from China you have to understand you are going to have problems…. It might be cheap, but you know when its says its IP 60 anything… its not.

Architects, designers etc… have had bad experiences with LEDs because their expectation have been not been matched by the end result. Because each of the components in the LED lighting System, whether it be in a sign, in-ground applications "concrete is the worst place to put an LED, or integrating LEDS in the a glass curtain wall have to be equally matched by the company implementing the solution, the people, the processes and the products are critical, buying the solution because its cheap, will never get you what you really want.

Ahhh, could talk all day on the subject but…..

John

[John Lyons]

Sorry guys…. it would be too distressing for me to post a pic of myself…. And apologies for the brain laps…. Just read the rules properly this time….

[John Lyons]

Probably one of the worst mistakes you can make, advertising something 2 years old…… Generally speaking, this is a classic scenario for most companies, get the website up and then do nothing with it, dont tell people what you and your company have deen doing or developing. Add to then then not reading the rules of the forum.. Doesn’t show you up in a good light. So to speak.

[John Lyons]

How about 16.5 million, or 57 billion… not all Leds are the same… Nothing silly about it, its just a knowledge gap.

[John Lyons]

he he… as I said Effect and budget…. what I actually ment was try getting neon to do multiple colours AT THE SAME TIME… he he..

[John Lyons]

Both have their place in signage, just depends on the effect you are trying to create. and of course your budget. Try getting Neon to do multiple colours on the same letter…..