Windy Weather Sign fitting

[Warren Beard]

Hi Matt

1) Get help
2) Get better ladders/platforms etc…
3) be safe

If you can’t spend the money to do it right you really shouldn’t be doing it at all.

Just trying to help mate!

Cheers

Warren

[Matt Hards]

Well I havent had a problem in the last two years. Fitted everything on ladders etc.

But this one is different as my first tray , and they are large panels to fit on ladders alone. Its not the equipment that bothers me, just the wind, lol. I love life and have lots to do yet, lol.
Forgot to add, I will have help with fitting also.

[Warren Beard]

Don’t think you will have too much of a problem then mate, just be careful, you can’t stop the wind but you have every right to refuse to do it if the weather is too bad, safety is more important than anybodies sign.

Good luck.

Warren

[Gary Birch]

If the gusts are any where near as strong as they are here I would give serious thought as to whether the job can wait. I was up a ladder yesterday and it wasn`t nice at all and today the wind is worse.

I`m with Warren too. Get the right gear even if you just have to hire it.

Cheers

Gary

[Dave Harrison]

Matt I’m in the same situation, I’ve got a quite a large sign to do. . its a corner building rough size is about 22 metres by 650mm.
Customer is really screaming at me wants his new sign for all the Christmas Trade etc . I want it up because its completely filling up my workshop. . . but I’m not going to risk damaging myself the building or the sign.

Even with the correct access equipment fitting in in bad whether is not a good idea.

If the customer can’t wait, refund the fitting charge and tell them to bloody fit it !

[Lynn Normington]

Matt if you have a tool hire place near you they usually rent out towers by the day and they are usually not very expensive, at least you would be safer 😀

Lynn

[Richard Urquhart]

Firstly hire some access equipment for the job in hand and be SAFE
Saying that I was removing and replacing 2 large acrylic panels yesterday in a town near me in the worst rain and wind I have ever fitted in but had to finish the job, never again, new pants for Rich , gives the kids something to buy me for x mas 😮 😮 😮 😮

[Steve Underhill]

basically if the wind takes your tray, flings it across the seafront and wipes out a family, you are responsible for that.
I wont fit anything big especially sheet material its just not safe.
Id be inclined to believe that if you were to do this job on ladders, and had an accident then your insurance would wriggle out of paying up if you hurt anyone.
Sounds extreme but with a sign that size and in difficult conditions I wouldnt consider anything but a scissor lift or cherry picker, and an extra pair of hands.
Ive just had a guy say he wont pay for scaffolding above his unsafe platform above his pub, I said ok that’s all right but I will only quote for fitting, I wont fit a 4 metre long sign above peoples heads on a ladder single handed.
I always try and imagine the worst case scenario and rectify the situation before it happens.

[Chris Wool]

quote :

always try and imagine the worst case scenario and rectify the situation before it happens

good advice.
if in any dout start writing the accident report out in your mind, if it makes bad reading dont do it wait till its right.
chris

[Steve Underhill]

maybe Im a little paranoid, but some of the things we hang & fit only have to drop a few feet to kill or seriously hurt somebody they are that heavy, thats why I taken every precaution to make sure it doesnt happen.
I fitted a sign last week on a hanging bracket that is over the head of thousands of tourists each week, 14 feet up.
I gripfilled the holes, used rawl bolts and attached an extra safety wire, again fixed into the wall.
This way even if the sign brackets fail, the actual bracket come off the wall etc the sign will still not hit anyone.
may seem a bit extreme to some and itts unlikely to fall, but we have unforseen events like a luton or a cherrypicker hiting it on the way past as has happenned before.
It certainly pays to think it through.

[Graeme Harrold]

quote Matt Hards:

Well I havent had a problem in the last two years. Fitted everything on ladders etc.

But this one is different as my first tray , and they are large panels to fit on ladders alone. Its not the equipment that bothers me, just the wind, lol. I love life and have lots to do yet, lol.
Forgot to add, I will have help with fitting also.

Now that you are doing big stuff, you have to do it right and safe. Making do and struggling with ladders is just tempting fate.

Workin at height regulations have been written for a reason, ladders are not safe working platforms. If you survive this job, look seriously at getting small tower/platform etc.

Dont want to be the one that "told you so!"

…….Work safe………keep makin money!!! :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Better safe than sorry is an appropriate old fashioned phrase.

however Steve, if a passing luton, or any vehicle can hit it, its in the wrong place, and if they do (say by driving of the road) then it would be down to them so dont worry about that scenario.

Peter

[Steve Underhill]

What sometimes happens Peter is that even though its a access only zone, and there are 6′ 6" bollards to prevent wider higher vehicles some get through when their sat nav tells them to go there 😕
when the bollards are removed for an ambulance etc.
that was the scenario I imagined, as its happenned before, I placed the sign level with the rest in the street as I know its occured before.
We even had an curtain sider lorry get almost into town once, it got all the way down a steep hill only just wide enough to fit it in and then got wedged at the last corner and they took a day to drag it back up the hill with cranes etc.
Theres no allowing for the common sense of sense of some people, thats what I envisage when placing items.
:lol1:

[Robert Lambie]

no disrepect, because I know many work from them, but get rid of the ladders and work from platforms. whether thats tresstles, scaffold or cherry picker.

as for the wind and fitting signs this size from ladders? ditch the idea mate. it maybe money in your pocket but you could ruin you or someone else for life if it goes wrong.

around 7 years ago a two sign firms (which i prefer not to name) were kitting out a retail park with all its signage. huge tower type signage and the like. the smaller company of the two was going to take a lunch break. when the other sign firm asked could they borrow their scissor lift cherry picker. the sign firm was already using two of their own so the other sign firm agreed and went off for their tea. on returning they found mayhem… flashing lights all over the place. two of the sign makers were dead and one badly injured. the cause was apparently due to the wind catching a large panel they were putting into position around 50-60ft up…

proper platforms, plenty of experience… nearly 3 sign makers dead.

[John Childs]

I think you’re getting the message here Matt. Unanimously. 😀

Just to add my bit, proper access equipment, and still wait for a better day.

[David Rogers]

As everybody else says…SAFETY FIRST.

I’ve done some stupid things in the past – mainly involving ladders & large panels funnily enough…and near enough killed the guy working with me just unloading the panels from the van in high wind. (6×4 of 3mm aluminium whipped out of my hands, somersaulting through the air across a car park…missed his head by inches.

Whatever the ‘tightness’ of the budget you can’t put a price or your or somebody elses life / injury. If you’d quoted to fit – it’ll be at the mercy of the weather anyway. I used to fit in ALL weathers due to time constraints & pressure from ‘above’. Wind, rain, snow…no matter. Now, I actually care about life 😕 won’t take any significant materials handling / installation risks. It may be that you’ll have to take a hit on the hire of a scissor lift & getting a competent mate to help out – live & learn.

It boils down to risk. Belt & braces like Steve. Two bolts may hold it…four make it immovable. One guy could stuggle…two can easily handle. I’ve installed some very high risk stuff – both for me during the install & as a public safety issue (eg. lightbox on a ferris wheel) – that box was reinforced to hell internally with steel plate & corner braces – massive eyebolts & stainless steel cable as a security measure…going nowhere even in the force 10 gales it experienced.
In all the years I’ve been putting up signs I’ve had NO failures..I have however had to rectify a few that other members of that same company did (panels blowing out due to poor install). Even in a current contract at a very exposed site – that of 4’x2′ projection lightboxes the stock brackets are ditched and it’ll all replaced with seriously heavy duty stuff. That’ll be why, although being probably the most expensive supplier they have NEVER had a failure or a call back…other companies that do it ‘cheap’…six months tops before it starts flopping about on the wall…

Do it right, do it safe…do it once.

Dave

[Steve Underhill]

Off topic a little but kind of to do with what we were saying, I was told by a friend of mine who was on this job and lets just say the guy was lucky not to be doing a stretch.

He is/was a dry liner, he was a competent dry liner but also a bit of a lad, fridays knock off early to go to the pub so cutting corners etc.
Anyway he had all the steel studwork tracking up
(long steel lengths that the plasterboards screw onto for those that dont know,)
and ready to fit the boards into, they were to be stacked on top of each other 3 high so 24 feet high, with the high false ceiling to be fitted after, not sure how this worked, it made more sense when my friend explained it.
It was in a massive office type building, all the boards went in ok and are meant to be screwed into the steel tracking as you go, after the second set of boards went in, he ran out of drywall screws. rather than go to the suplier and get more, you wont believe this, he got a black marker and drew the screws on at the correct spacings and intercvals so viewed from the floor you wouldnt see any difference as the screws are black.
The floors would then hold all the boards in anyway as they were fitted so it didnt matter, or so he thought.
A few days later my friend and the screw drawing guy got a panicked phone call to come back to the job urgently, the ceiling had been fitted, the lights in and nobody had known any better, until one board slipped behind another due to the weight and also not being screwed and the whole room and about 80+ 8’x4′ 12mm plasterboards and all the tracking they were fitted into came through the ceiling and into a heap on the floor, luckily it was out of hours and nobody was hurt.
the guy who had the contract and was using the subbie, lost his business as a result of being sued for 70 odd grand.

The moral of that story is blindingly obvious,
Dont cut corners even when it seems like you can get away with it.

The guy is still in work, but there are a lot of businesses who know his name and as soon as its mentioned the job ceases to exist.

[Karl Williams]

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of attempting to fit a sign on the side of my sisters Hair Salon. I left the ladders up on the side of the shop, went to get the sign, 2 seconds later ladders down – 1 brand new vectra in the scrappers. Good thing I kept the insurance payments up to date! 😳

[Mike Grant]

The fact that you asked the question in the first place means that you have doubts. If in doubt………..don’t do it.

Lots of good advice here so I won’t add any more.

[Peter Normington]

Dont do it Matt.
only Andy Gorman and I are certified to fit big signs single handed, using only a ladder and ingenuity.

Anyone else will just run into problems 😉

Peter

[Graeme Harrold]

quote Peter Normington:

Dont do it Matt.
only Andy Gorman and I are certified to fit big signs single handed, using only a ladder and ingenuity.

Anyone else will just run into problems 😉

Peter

Yup………but Andy can do it with that pint in his hand that he has never let go of!!!!!!!!

[Robert Lambie]

quote Graeme Harrold:

Yup………but Andy can do it with that pint in his hand that he has never let go of!!!!!!!!

yeh but he only holds it there to hide the big scar he got when he fell from ladders on a windy day. 😉

[Andy Gorman]

Yes, I am heroic when it comes to sticking big things on buildings.

But not in the wind.

One customer who is slightly annoyed at a sign going up late is a small price to pay for not being dead. They aint going to pay your bills when you come a cropper are they?

Tip: I find that strong winds are usually calmer early in the morning rather than later in the day.

[Andrew Ward]

Shouldn’t be using access towers with wind speeds over 17mph. Most hire companies won’t hire towers & the like to you unless your a PASMA card holder these days.

[Steve Underhill]

Is it ok to hire them If you have a PLASMA TV?

[Chris Wool]

quote :

Is it ok to hire them If you have a PLASMA TV?

😀 😀

get back to your shirts

[Steve Underhill]

Im posting in the 10 seconds between presses.
Im multitasking.

[Lynn Normington]

Steve you can’t be only women can multitask, you guys forget what your supposed to be doing 😀

Lynn

[Phill Fenton]

I can multitask. I can drink beer and watch telly all at the same time 😕

[Lynn Normington]

you sure Phill 🙄

Lynn

[Steve Underhill]

Uh?
Eh?
more beer
sleep

[John Childs]

I’m a bit worried about Matt.

We’ve not heard anything from him since the top of this thread.

Have any members living on the coastline seen any odd flying objects heading out to sea?

[Steve Underhill]

No, but I do live next to the sea and have my new shop sign to put up, not even in a windy area really but its still a bit breezy, its a 3050mm x 600mm sheet of dibond.
(mounted on Peter Normingtons excellent suggestion I might add)
And until this wind drops its staying firmly inside the shop.

[Harry Cleary]

quote Phill:

I can multitask. I can drink beer and watch telly all at the same time 😕

I think Phil might have wind problems too!! 😀 😀

How did the sign turn out Steve?

[Steve Underhill]

I turned out nice Harry, I still have to stick all the stuff together, its all ready to go, but I had to spend ages filing all the burrs off the versalite, where the router machined it, so I had a nice smooth finish.
Your idea has pride of place inthe middle of the sign though and it is just white 10mm letters on the blue dibond now, no vinyl except under the letters so I have something to line up with.
Nice clean looking sign, or at least I hope it is.
Lots of people like it so far

[Hugh Potter]

quote John Childs:

I’m a bit worried about Matt.

We’ve not heard anything from him since the top of this thread.

Have any members living on the coastline seen any odd flying objects heading out to sea?

lol, he’s fine! he helped me put up a couple of 2400×400 dibond signs on that curved fascia i mentioned the other day!

thanks Matt, and i do agree with the others, i use a ladder only when i have too, even on my tresles / scaffold boards i have the occasional wobble!
Hugh

[Matt Hards]

Hey guys, yes i am back, well the wind blew me all the way up to leicester this weekend, so i didnt get on to reply, lol.

The sign is still in the workshop ready to fit, wind looks to be easing here, so should get it done this week. Will post pictures up on here.

Yes finally got to meet Hugh the other day after quite a while of on screen conversing, as he mentioned, he was fitting a couple of dibond panels. Nice job when they were up, looked very pro fo. Hopefully we’ll see some photos????

[Hugh Potter]

i’ll get the photo’s up when i fit the last little panel above the door, busy backing up everything at mo for a format 🙁