Window Graphics : Various Etch Work

[Kevin Flowers]

Very nice work Rob

Kevin

[Mike Brown]

nice work Rob and great design – the geometric patterns you’ve used have great impact!

more please

mikethesign

[Simon Clayton]

Very nice work indeed..

how did you put the etched on, wet or dry?

Simon

[Neil Kelly]

Great work Rob
Frost is the only vinyl I fit Wet. use mainly 3m Frosted Crystal,
didnt realise Oracal did frost Il have to check it out.

Great to see your work

Neil… 😉

[Robert Lambie]

Thanks for the comments guys.. 😉

Simon, all the etch vinyl is applied completely dry mate. In fact everything I do is always dry.

Neil, ive been using the oracal etch for a good bit now. Never find any probs applying. Infact I find it easier to apply than most etch vinyls.
I used 3M stuff a couple of times but the cost is unrealistic. I even think the oracal etch is expensive but affordable.
I recently had some samples of mactac coloured glass etch vinyl’s sent to me. Some very nice pastel shades. (That reminds me) I think we ordered in some to try..
I have a job to do in pastel shades that I wanted to try out.. The only source I could find was 3M & fineline.. 3M far to expensive and finelines went down with them..
Anyway, hope to use the mactac stuff now. Ill post some pictures when it’s done.

Neil, I notice you said you apply wet! Is this you that applies it or your guys mate?
I know a few on the site that apply vinyl wet, windows, signs or vehicles. (not meaning this cheeky in anyway 😕 ), I just don’t see the attraction. Yes, it’s easier.. But not better! I have a few things off the top of my head that I can say why wet apps are not good.. Other than being a bit more difficult I cant see or know of any other reason that dry is not best…

I still reckon if I spent a day with someone “one on one” applying dry, I could convert them and they would not look back.

The way I look at it is.. We all move with the times. Buy newer fancier machinery to bring in more income & beat the competition.
Applying vinyl dry will get jobs out in a fraction of the time it does wet, the life of the job will last longer & less come backs.
And best of all, doing it this way doesn’t cost you a penny more. Just brings more in, on the long run!

And please, any newbies reading this.. ide say take what I have said on board, but don’t take it personal. If you currently find wet apps the favoured way to apply, then stick to it until you feel more comfortable/confident.

[Mike Brown]

I too apply 90% of vinyl dry – but would always apply large etch panels (on glass) wet.

I normally leave such vinyl from 2-4 days to dry out, returning everyday to squeegee it over…but then the last job we did using etch vinyl on glass (very similar in size to the ‘Mark Hill’ one shown above – though admittedly witha few more pieces) we priced at £1,600 for the etched window work alone – so there’s no need to do it faster? – just as best I can.

I also use wet application for some custom grade and exhibition work, for facing white foam PVC board with coloured vinyl and when applying certain pieces on the very hotest summer days. (when applying vinyl is like putting cling-film into a frying pan!).

I must say, I’ve never had any problem with vinyl applied wet not lasting as long – or had any comebacks from doing so either? Beautiful work though Rob! – and I guess that’s why they call you Fast Signs 😆 😆 😆

cheers!

mikethesign

[Robert Lambie]

quote :

I normally leave such vinyl from 2-4 days to dry out

Honest;y mike… I would be hunted If I kept returning to a shop o disrupt the customer Day after day mate. 😕
£1,600 for 4 hours work has gotta make better sense than $1,600 over 4 days?
I don’t do my work fast because I have to by any means, I just always apply it dry because that’s the best & quickest method of application.
I know you regularly use wet applications for covering foamex etc & have no come backs.
I wasnt meaning you, neil, simon or anyone that replied for that matter.
I mean in general.
Wet application does have far more draw backs than dry… 😕

[LOST]

GREAT WORK ROBERT
HAVE TO SAY I WOULD HAVE PUT IT ON WET TOO. 😳
SOPPOSE IT MUST BE A CONFIDENCE THING (:)

[John Singh]

How many pieces make up the first image of circles Rob
Was this tiled?
I can’t see any joins so it would seem you did this whole
How???

[MJ Designs]

Very nice Rob.

I’ve just finished a few etched glass jobs, although on a lot smaller scale!

As other people here I don’t feel confident in applying dry, the main concern being lining up the piece, I’ve started going to jobs like this and building myself up to apply dry but as soon as I get there I lose all confidence and revert to the wet method.

It may be an idea to put this in another thead but how do you ensure the vinyl is lined up anywhere near good enough before applying it to the substrate or glass etc.? The feeling I have is that if it’s not lined up perfect first time the vinyls already taken too much of a hold on the glass to be taken back off. I’m also paranoid about air bubbles & creases in the vinyl, when squeegeing out, is this all down to the squeegy used & technique?

Sorry for the questions, feel free to tell me to pop it in another thread and I will 🙂

Gareth

[Steven Griffiths]

Exellent work Rob!! Nice one 😀
________
DRUG REHAB FORUM

[Robert Lambie]

Thanks for the comments guys..

DECLAN
Your right mate.. Confidence plays a big part.
The only way to gain it though is through practice. If you apply wet
Then I strongly urge you to try to move onto dry when you can find time to practice.
You dont need to practice with real work.. Try using some old scarps of vinyl you have in your place of work. Give it a go.. Nothing to loose lots to gain.
If you decide to practice, do it on Perspex or painted aluminium. If you manage on that then the rest of the substrates on the go will be a breeze for you. Trust me..

Hi john
first image I think was done in 3 pieces only. Top & bottom and one bit in the middle. The reason you cant see the join is because I have trimmed it up very tight. About a mill overlap. Any shrinkage that may occur after that should draw it back to a nice butted join.
The pictures for mark hill were taken before the job was 100% complete so the joins had not been trimmed. I think they must be around .5-.75 overlaps in the pics. Up close this is hideous looking and I would suggest anyone to keep overlaps on etch or window apps to a minimum.
The mark hill job was done in 5 pieces for the large window and 4 for the narrow one. 1 long top & bottom and 3 down panels.
Side one was top, bottom and 2 sides.

Both shops were done with the help of someone holding the panels at one end while I lined and applied. The down panels could easily be done alone but those large long ones behind pillars & behind cabinets etc just couldnt be done alone.

Gareth
Your questions are good ones mate.. Like I said to Declan, confidence is important Mate.

quote :

Is this all down to the squeegee used & technique?

Not so much the squeegee mate.. More technique, but a good squeegee does help. For windows I used an almost new felt squeegee.
Its hard to explain or show you in a picture how to apply vinyl.
. & One of the reasons why I think the video forum will be a great help to many when it comes & im working on video demos at the moment. I should have many things to offer on the site in early-mid January as way of demos.

quote :

Sorry for the questions, feel free to tell me to pop it in another thread and I will

Not at all mate. Thats what the site is for.
I dont want to come across as up my own backside
just because I apply dry. Those who can apply dry know its not a big deal.
But im sure they understand why I stress my point.

If you cant apply dry do it wet.. Not a problem. We all want to make money at the end of the day & if you keep getting bubbles dry then do it wet..

I received my rapid tac 2 sample today. Ill play around with it shortly and let you all know what I think of it as far as wet apps concerned using this stuff.
I dont see it changing my method in the slightest, but it will be interesting to see if it will help you guys achieve a better grip than soupy water

Having said that, damn I just dont get the fairy liquid set-up
Surely fresh water is ample? (drown)

[Phill Fenton]

I used to apply 99% of vinyl wet until I witnessed Rob applying vinyl dry to a van. Since then I have been a convert to dry application.

For one – it’s much quicker (you can take the tape off straight away) and the finished result is better straight away (applying wet needs a day or so to dry out properly before it looks as “clean” as a dry application).

Secondly – on vehicles going over indented panels to vinyl grips straight away and is more likely to stay in place without lifting.

However, like Mike – I much prefer to apply wet when applying vinyl on top of vinyl – (I just can’t avoid bubbles when vinyl is aplied on top of another layer of vinyl). Likewise, when flood coating I find it easier to apply wet.

Windows – I agree with Rob – do them dry and there is no need to return again to remove the application tape so the job is completed in less time.

If you are a beginner I would suggest starting out by applying everything wet – it really is much easier (but the jobs take longer) and after a few days of drying out the end result is every bit as good as dry application.

With experience you will find dry application has many benefits ( I actually find applying dry is easier in cold weather).

There is a technique to dry application and that is to work in one direction only thereby eliminating air and not trapping air bubbles into the vinyl.

There is no right or wrong way – I think both methods have their advantages and dissadvantages. You just have to use the method that best suits your current situation.

[Neil Kelly]

I think the wet question is realy only relevent to the type of vinyl you are fitting and the way you fit it I fit all my window graphics other than frost dry but Frosted crystal which is my preferd frosted film is a Film like no other its strong adhesive and soft texture mean you get no second chances no option to whip it back and reposition, other more economical vinyls react differently and fit well dry but lack the lustre and sparkle of FC and at over £20.00 a meter you dont want to screw it up and start again. maybe it is a confidence thing but I would like to see any fitter fit a 1m wide x 4m 3M frosted crystal panel with fretcut text on a warm shop window dry, if you have done it then total respect to your skill and confidence. if it’s a line of text some dots or a 100mm band then dry is probably best.

When I price my frosted work I always give the option of a cheaper film but generally when you give the customer the option and show them samples they dont mind paying the extra.

I train all the guys that work for me and encorage all to fit dry its faster and when learnt a lot easier to do but some jobs need a little bit of slip to get position and to eliminate trapped air.

For reference my the Ideal slip solution for frosted window work is 1” Meths in a Spray bottle 3 drops of shampoo topped up with water. Drys out within 10 to 15 mins so no need for a return visit.

So when are we going to flex are squeeges and arange the vinyl olympics 😉 😉

Neil…..

[Mike Brown]

Rob – I don’t get any hassle from customers about what I do cus I simply tell them how it’s gunna be from the start!…lol…and it’s not a case of money over four days just four relatively quick visits to check all is well and let the elements run their course. 😎 As long as I’ve know you – you’ve fitted stuff dry and I know it’s your preferred method of application (and your bloomin’ good at it too!) 😉 but I would suggest that dry is not necessarily the ‘best’ method – it is simply one method…

When I meet with others in signmaking I always show them all the methods of fitting and take great trouble to explain the different methods and processes as well as the reasons for their use and typical applications.

You’re right off course about dry being the fastest method of fitting – but it is only the ‘best’ provided certain conditions apply…for anyone to presume or suggest that wet application is ‘easy’ is a misnomer as it takes just as long to show students the correct method of preparation and application for using the wet method as it does the dry!

The reason for using detergent (and other additives) in the water is something else we discuss on the first day of learning to apply vinyl – the detergent reduces the surface tension of the water and so encourages the formation of a film as opposed to droplets. This film creates a uniform barrier that makes for a smoothly progressive and regular application and helps in the expulsion of both air and microscopic surface debris through the water membrane…:wink: 😛

Anyone reading this shouldn’t be perturbed by mine and Roberts (and all the other regulars’) ‘jibing’ – we’ve known each other too many years and enjoy a bit of lively banter (not to mention winding each other up!) and we all have our favourite methods too 😉 If you’re new here or don’t yet post very much – PLEASE – join in and say what you think about fitting vinyl and what method you’re most comfortable with – I assure you, whatever your views or questions on the subject – it’ll be taken in the ‘right way’!

cheers Rob – and that is definately some awesome etch work you’ve posted 😉

more soon

mikethesign

[George Zerbino]

Hello all…

I usually apply dry, specially to vans.
Regards window etch vinyl, I always use Mactac and always apply it wet (even on their material guide it’s described as ‘for wet appliaction only’). However, if all I’m applying is text, I’ll put it on dry.
I’ve been doing some test lately, and now use the following procedure for applying text or graphics cut out of the material: first, once the material is cut I do not weed it, and put application tape on the area of the graphics only, not on all the material; second, I apply the graphics on the windows by means of water+fairy liquid; third, squegee the whole graphic; fourth, go and fit any other parts of the job; sixth, spray water on the application tape, rub it in nicely and carefully remove it; last, weed the graphics on site.
I know, a bit long winded, but for me this works best….(you’ll probably say otherwise :-))
Having said that, I’ve been known to apply 10’x4′ prints onto foamex dry with no app tape in 4 minutes flat! And with nobody to help me!

Btw Rob, I love those geometric shapes! They really do give the windows some punch! 🙂

Later….

George Zerbino
Sign Graphics

[Glenn Sharp]

Rob,

What preperation do you do before sticking dry on windows?

Is your approach the same for all conditions (soaking wet from condensation or baking hot south facing windows)?

Do you tape the vinyl off or apply straight from the backing sheet?

So many questions 😮

[Robert Lambie]

Of course there’s no hard feelings in this post.. Its fun if anything,
When does mike & I ever get the chance to cross swords here on the boards?
Lets us play for god sake! (bully) 😆 😆 😆 😆

To be 100% honest with everyone. I started out with wet apps and moved on after a couple of years. Although now 14 years in the game I did work my way up in the company. I am, self-taught in the methods I use today.
Applying vinyl is all about what you feel most comfortable with when working. There is no point worrying about every job your about to do because its dry.. If so, do it wet problem solved. 😉 & Yes. Mikes right there is certain ways and techniques to learn when applying wet. If I was on my own everyday I would probably use wet app more on bits and bobs if the second set of hands were a must. 😕

I hear what you say about dry being only one of two methods of application mike.
Your right! But we will have to agree to disagree on the better of the two… 😆 😆 😆 😉

Wet application:-
Very difficult to apply properly in cold weather. Impossible in frosty, cold..
Should not be used for vehicle wrapping.
Should not be used in recess work on vehicles.
Should not be used on cold glass windows, internally.
Takes far longer to apply wet than dry.:roll:

(please note I say should not, not cant) 😉

Dry application:-
Difficult to apply on very warm days in direct sunlight. 🙄

Thanks for the comments geoz..
Its everyman to his own mate. I can’t say anyway is wrong as long as it gets the job done at the end of the day. 😛
If asked, like I was. I will always give my own personal opinion. I guess its up to the reader to decide if what I say is crap or for them. 😮

Glenn

quote :

What preparation do you do before sticking dry on windows?

First I wipe the windows down with a dry paper towel. Then a razor blade glass scraper to lift any grime or paint specs. I go right into the frame as that’s normally been you find the loose chip paint.
Next take a damp paper towel and wipe right round the window frames and ledge.
Then I go over the whole window with mentholated spirits.
If the graphics are long lines of text I mark it out using masking tape. That lets me see if things are running straight at a glance. On the tape I mark the start marks in. then apply lines of text with a “newish” felt squeegee.
If its large panels then I either mark it out using bits of tape or I mark the outside of the glass so as not to trap ink behind the panels.

quote :

Is your approach the same for all conditions (soaking wet from condensation or baking hot south facing windows)?

It is mate.. Very much so I guess.. If it’s a very hot south facing window as in warm to touch, 1pm situation I normally advice and come back around 4pm or first thing in the morning. Then I just apply as normal.

quote :

Do you tape the vinyl off or apply straight from the backing sheet?

Not sure I follow mate.. If it’s a huge long panel then I have someone hold one end off the surface while pulling the carrying paper out from below me as I apply.

Geoz, mike
I do understand the reason for the fairy liquid in the water. Mikes explanation Sums it up to a tee, and he’s right about how it helps.
I didn’t mean to down the method by what I said; it’s back to my opinion again.. (here we go I hear you say 😆 ) we clean down panels/surfaces of any grime or grease and dust. But then add an oily additive to the water to help even more from the water itself.
It is impossible to rid every drop or should I say all the moisture from below the panel Of vinyl. more so on grany surfaces like foamex. It drys out over time I agree… but what happens to the oily additive (?)

If you spill some soupy water onto a piece of clean glass laid flat and next to it some fresh water. Leave it there till it dries naturally. The fresh water will be gone completely. But the soupy will leave a milky residue. This trapped in a van recess may crash the vinyl’s long-term adhesion. 🙄

[Mike Brown]

…it’s just the way you put it Rob 😛 – for example…

quote :

I started out with wet apps and moved on after a couple of years.

Wet application isn’t something to be moved on from?…it’s simpy another method of fitting that all signmakers use whenever and wherever necessary. You make it sound like it’s only for babies or summut?! 😀

quote :

If you spill some soupy water onto a piece of clean glass laid flat and next to it some fresh water. Leave it there till it dries naturally. The fresh water will be gone completely. But the soupy will leave a milky residue.

Well, I presume you mean ‘soapy’ water cus if not well – yes!, soupy water is gunna leave bits of mushroom, tomato and/or minestrone all over the shop! 😆 😆 😆 – got ya! 😛

Seriously though, you’re right that residue in a vehicle recess will interfere with adhesion – and I agree that wet app should not be used for wraps or recess work…but…even ‘plain’ water will leave marks when it has evaporated. It contains salts, minerals, sometimes flouride and lots more, hence the term ‘water-mark’ Even the meths you use to clean the panel prior to such work is made from ethanol – which itself is made from biomass containing sugars and cellulose and it leaves a residue too – try it!. Other cleaners are even worse! ‘White Spirits’, for example, is distilled from crude oil (as is the detergent we use in the water!) which leaves an oily residue that can actually attack the vinyl adhesive over time…so we’re all damned – whatever we use! 😆

Wet application, where appropriate, will produce consistently better results than dry application every time. It assists in the expulsion of air and minor surface debris from between the vinyl and the substrate for a more predictable result, it allows lifting of the vinyl to remove unwanted debris (which can happen regardless of how well you prep) it reduces stressing and distortion in the vinyl at the point of application and it reduces ‘bruising’ too. The downside to wet app. of course is that it requires time and, as we all know, time is often the enemy on many commercial jobs…

…and if Rob don’t bite at that – I’ll be surprised! 😆 😆 😆

more soon

mikethesign

[Martin C]

I apply nearly everything I do wet!

This thing about the washing up liquid. I have two spray bottles, one with pure water, the other with one single drop of Fairy in it. That’s more than enough to allow repositioning and only on the smallest text direct to substrate do you have to wait. Vinyl, on Vinyl it doesn’t effect adhesion at all!

I must put up the pics of an etched glass job I done some months back, 50 metres….all applied wet! 😕

[Robert Lambie]

quote :

Wet application isn’t something to be moved on from?…it’s simpy another method of fitting that all signmakers use whenever and wherever necessary. You make it sound like it’s only for babies or summut?!

wet application is the method “almost all” use when starting out. even some coach builders spray painter guys use it..
once confident with vinyl. you can move onto trying dry application… its the next step, thats all. hence moving on! 😉

quote :

Wet application, where appropriate, will produce consistently better results than dry application every time.

where appropriate? Look at my list of Inappropriate above.. I could have went on… 😆 😆 😆 😉 😉

quote :

It assists in the expulsion of air and minor surface debris from between the vinyl and the substrate for a more predictable result, it allows lifting of the vinyl to remove unwanted debris (which can happen regardless of how well you prep)

This may help make the application on a “flat panel” easier but that’s it! nothing more.. all the help/favours of this type of application end there… 😉

quote :

it reduces stressing and distortion in the vinyl at the point of application and it reduces ‘bruising’ too.

Im using a felt squeegee mike. Not a bat mate! 😉 😆 😆 😆

Hey! Can we keep going on like this? If so.. I want to draw charts. Get crown witnesses in. & cross-examine mike. Tie him to a chair with a spotlight in his face and have water dropping on his forehead.. Eh correction…. Soapy water!
I bet this guys a 100% dry applicator working on the side for Rapid-tac.. Hey Roger we got you sussed mate.. give us our mike back..

“Put your skooshy bottles down and come out with your hands up… ” 😉
😆 😆 😆 😆

[Lee Attewell]

What a giggle. 😆 😆

[Lee Attewell]

I almost forgot to say… really nice work there Rob.

[image]

Rob
Very impressive, modern designs! 😮 😮 😮
It is the style what I like best. Professional!

[Steve Broughton]

Where’s Roger Bailey from RapidTac when you need him ? Rob he’d beat you into submission on wet application 😆 maybe I’ll send him an email 😎 Now Rapidtac say that their product actually makes the vinyl adhere “better & quicker, promoting faster curing of the adhesive” as we all know the adhesive on vinyl takes a few hours to reach its maximum adesion level.
Like Mike said there are no hard and fast rules for wet or dry just one is better than the other in certain applications a lot of it can depend on lots of factors, how I’m feeling (hangovers etc. 🙂 ) weather, temperature, how elaborate the graphic is, substrate, material etc. etc.
Oh! and Rob detergents don’t leave “oily deposits” thats their whole purpose to get rid of oil and grease or how else would your missus be able to get the fried egg stains off the front of your t-shirts 😆
I remember way back in the mists of time 🙄 when I used to do photography we added a “wetting agent” to the final rinse when processing film, its job was to reduce the surface tension of water to allow it to rinse clean, and it was a detergent base.

This it what it says on Rapid Tacs website about “wet” application :-
Granted, not all applications call for a “wet” procedure, but we do know that in most applications, forty to sixty percent labor time can be saved by using an application fluid. Sometimes one person can do a job (normally requiring two people to apply dry) in less time if an application fluid like Rapid Tac is used. Application fluid cleans without leaving residues. It then helps to “float” the vinyl until it is properly positioned. Best of all Rapid Tac and Rapid Tac II stimulates the adhesive to bond in approximately ninety seconds, even in adverse climates such as extreme hot or cold. It will not cause bubbles so there’s no returning to poke holes in your work either. Your customers and your reputation will benefit from higher-quality applications.
OK a lot of that is sales waffle 🙄 but one thing the guy does stand by his product and can often be found on Letterheads giving his two pen’arth 😕

[Phill Fenton]

There is another method that is often used to apply vinyl that no one has yet mentioned. This is almost a “cross between the wet and dry methods and has the advantages of each with non of the disadvantages.

This other method has been known about by “Master Signmakers” for many years but the method used is rarely passed on to others.

Mike, Rob, Steve and others in the know – I think it’s time we spoke openly about this method for the greater good of all signmakers.

This technique has many names, but I call this method the “Breath” method – also known as panting.

What you do is blow heavily (an actual panting gives best results) over the substrate just before applying the vinyl. This provides a film of moisture from your breath which greatly aids the application process. (A minor improvement of the method is to drink a small amount of washing up liquid before hand which will lower the surface tension of the moisture in your breath).

A tiny drawback to the method is that it can cause fainting – but this is a small price to pay (please be careful when using this method whilst working up a ladder).

Also if you are suffering from a cold, or are a heavy smoker – this method can introduce some “lumpy bits” under the vinyl.

[Steve Lamb]

Hello all

Not had much time to visit latley been soooo busy. Been following this topic though, geeze! Before I stick my ore in, nice frosted job Rob.

I go with some of the others here:

Only apply larger frosted wet and possibly the odd colour on colour, but not often.

Mixture for our frosted wet application is water and a couple of drops of antibacterial washing up liquid, this stops milky res on the film.

To be honest we don’t do loads of frosted work so we always buy 3M and let the customer have the additional cost, we get good prices for it anyway. 😉

We have used Mactac and APA frost but not a scratch on 3M quality, it also has the added benefit of having a plastic backing, good for WET application.

I would not pay for expensive aplication fluid, not worth it, sorry 😕

Everything else we do is dry, dry, dry!!

Even if we are covering foamex its dry, we use a roller for this, works a treat.

Vans and vehicles flat or not, never wet, always dry, anyone who applies wet vinyl into a recess is asking for trouble.

Here is one of our frosted jobs we did earlier this year. WET 😆

Cheese

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[Steve Lamb]

Try that picture again!!

Always WET! 🙂

Cheese

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[Mike Brown]

…great laugh!…I luv it… 😆 😆 😆

Thanks for the banter Rob 😛 😆

…surely the wet app used by beginners isn’t often true wet application though – it’s just an attempt to make the fitting easier by slapping on vast amounts of overly-soapy water due to a lack of confidence and experience. It seldom involves the correct preparation, solution strengths or additives – the conditions are not right and the backing is either removed too soon or not left long enough. It took me a long time to get the best from wet app. When I show other signmakers how to fit vinyl – we study preparation first, followed by dry app and only then do we do true wet app.

Wet application can be used for a great deal of work on cars, vans, trucks, bikes and boats to name a few – including complex curves on bonnets and tailgates, flat panels (of course), undulating panels and roofs – in fact anywhere except into recesses. It can be used for panelling flexible wheel covers with banner material and indeed aplying banner vinyl onto banners (whose adhesive is particularly agressive!). It can be used for glasswork of all types, applying vinyl to acrylic, panelling foam signs, multicolour alignment work, magnetic panels and, as someone already pointed out, can be very useful for applying large single pieces on your own without risk!

Of course you/me/others use dry app most of the time – but wet app is just another application method – it’s not a lesser/inferior/worse method, neither is it just for the unexperienced or anything like that…in fact it involves a greater learning curve than dry application and produces consistently better results on most types of signwork – it’s just not popular because of the time factor and it needs the right conditions. We often panel signs, wheel covers and magnetics one day, leave them to dry/cure for a dew days and then decorate them and large etch panels are applied to a window at the end of one day and the tape removed either the following morning or the day after that…being a good signmaker has nothing to do with speed! 😀

Many newcomers and improvers often hang on every word that we more experienced folk say on here – that’s understandable – I just wanted to make sure that this whole wet/dry app thing comes over a ‘balanced’ kind of way… 😉

I do enjoy these debates 😉 😆 😆 😆 😆 and I hope Rob don’t mind his post including such chit-chat…once again – the etch work that everyone has posted here is great and an inspiration to all to try to experiment with its effects and applications…

Phill that made me laugh OUT LOUD 😆 😆 😆 – thanks mate 😉

Lamby – beautiful use of coloured etch, I luv the cut outs for the signs and the overall design is spot-on! 😉

more soon

mikethesign

PS. YES – I fit 90% of vinyl dry too! 😉

[Robert Lambie]

steve.. cracking work mate.. very effective. 😉

like i said mike we can agree to disagree mate.. 😉 “its just our own opinions after all” 😕 😛

i have never said wet is not another acceptable way to apply vinyl. i just dont use it anymore due to preference.
after being asked i gave my most honest opinion & that is dry apps are the best & fastest all-round method for application of vinyl. i maybe wrong in lots of folks eyes but again thats their own opinion.. they are welcome to their own opinions. 🙄

here is something that happend today for instance. it may
sound conveniant for me to bring up now. but it did happen only today so ill share!
yesterday i went to stirling to do my usual contract work at the dairy there.
this visit i was to apply 4x 30 foot x 4 foot blue panels horizontaly on a large truck.
when i arrived an english sign company was already on the scene. they were applying “huge” digital prints on 3 small 17 foot trucks and the largest 44 foot x 100 inch truck
“the same one my world record attempt will be on when the promotion is over…”
anyway.. i pressure wash my truck, dry it off and start to apply. i had one guy feeding the vinyl while the other held in line. i applied using a felt squeegee dry. 1 hour or so later i had the side finished.
walking back to my van for a drink i looked over at the team of 3 guys, applying 4 foot by 100 inch panels like wallpaper/verticaly. they were applying “wet” and at a glance doing very well! 😮 so much so they had almost covered as much of their truck as i had mine. so you can guess i thought to my self.. golly, 😕 could i be wrong about applying wet and it being slow? the one thing i did think is .. how ugly? 🙁
a verticle join every 4 foot. of 44 foot long.. my truck had only one join in the middle. 2 peices in total used.
i also noticed they did not use application tape.
to put the boot in more, a couple of guys i regularly chat to were watching them.. they shouted, “hey robert, i see your competitions showing you up mate..!!! (:) (:)
i chuckled and walked on muttering…….yeh yeh.. but look at all their joins.. haha. they didnt care obviously. 🙁
anyway… back to my work.. once done i left to go to another job.

today i returned at lunch time.. i drove into the yard to see the same guys, working away. but now with about 10 folk hovering round them. including the gaffers.. i thought great, this is all i need.. 😕
(still thinking about what they said yesterday)
as i drove in further. the foreman walked forward waving me down.
i thought here i go for another slagging.
i rolled my window down and he shouted, “i think you better get round there and show these guys how to apply vinyl right rob! we came into work this morning only to find some of the panels had slid off the trucks. the ones still on.. had huge water blisters &
they were finding hard to remove. he went on to say..
they are trying to defend themself now by saying “they fit this stuff all over the country wet in the exact same fashion. and assure its only a minor glitch that they will have sorted soon.” 😕 🙄 😆 😆
this happend on all 4 trucks that they fitted..
the foreman said these our guys (me) have fitted at least 50 trucks for us in the last few months and never have we had one bit of bother..
look at the truck they fitted only yesterday along side yours…
the other company looked, but said nothing!!!
he asked my opinion but i said im not sure without properly looking at it but ide say its the method of application.
when i had finished today the foreman asked me to check over the other companies “second attempt” as they had finished and left.
i walked over and could see signs of bad attempts to rid the moisture beneath.
i took my index finger and thumb.. dog eared one corner and did not even tug. the panel started to lift right off in one go… NO TAC what so ever!
i flattend it out and said.. “ide keep their number handy mate.. you will need it soon!” 😉

i took some pics of this poor fitting but havent got my cam handy to load them. will do soon though…

[Mike Brown]

…I rest my case – anyone trying to apply wet outside in the conditions you have there at the moment is mad!…not only that but you have to wonder if they’ve ever been taught correctly – else they’d have the trucks inside and control the conditions etc. if they want to fit wet that is?

I guess they’re scared of messing up those lovely expensive digital prints whereas your cut vinyl pieces could be inexpensively replaced…

You’ve gotta know what your at that’s for sure…

great story Rob – how are you gettin gon at the Dairy?…

more soon

mikethesign

[Jamie Kimp]

I may have missed it in this thread, but how do you apply dry and get a decent finish (in reverse through glass)? Do you use a roller?

[Robert Lambie]

i normally use a felt and a nylon squeegee doing window work.

applied dry…

ive not used a roller on glass before, but have on truck sides. not keen on using them to be honest.

[Roy Roffey]

tip top work as always rob…

gotta say – im a dry guy too….

roffs

[Lynn Normington]

this post was first posted in 2003 🙄

Lynn

[Mindaugas]

very clear and nice