which sould i choose a wide format printer or CNC router?

[Gordon Jones]

looked in to a router a few years ago, you need some work to keep one of them going 4hrs never mind 8. Also, the trade side seems saturated and the large players will take some beating, the prices are rock bottom so you would have to be just as competitive and deliver quick, also with you being in a remote area, what will the suppliers charge you to deliver sheet stock?

very difficult decision, if it was me, I would look to sell the stuff yes, but just buy it in, no waste material lying around, minimal mistakes etc etc.

[Joe Cieslowski]

Ian,

Here’s how I think when it comes to making a choice like yours. I tend to think that new tools should be purchased to assist a growing work load rather than purchasing a tool and hope that the work will follow.
I, personally, would first establish a market for the work and then a large tool purchase is less of a gamble. I can’t speak to the printers but dimensional signs can be produced with tools you probably all ready own. Weather you use a band saw or a cnc, the process is the same. An economic system of production needs to be established……."time is money".
With a market demand established and a good production system in place, the chance of success is improved.

Just a few thoughts that might help.

Best of luck….this is always a tough nut.

Joe,

Makin Chips and Havin Fun!

[Jon Marshall]

I would get neither unless you are already outsourcing a lot of those things and having your own machine would be saving you money as well as making you money.

[David-Foster-]

Ah, but just think of the fun you could have with a CNC Router :lol1:

[Stephen Morriss]

You sound a little like me, I live in a rural area and have to be able to do a lot of types of work so being self sufficient helps a lot, you can’t just pop down the road to someone who has the equipment.

I have a Uniform Cadet and it’s been great so far, jobs I would have used multi layered vinyl on I just print and cut now. Simple and quick.
Down side, I had a learning curve involving wasted ink, time and materials.

I can’t comment on the CNC router as I don’t have one, but I can imagine that there is some one local willing to give you work so ask around, but don’t believe the "yes we’ll give you loads of work" comments.

Steve

[Chris J Giles]

I’d say it is easier to get good outsourced digital print than it is to get good outsourced CNC, so I would consider the CNC – providing of course you think you have the potential work to keep it busy.

The possibilities of having your own CNC are endless, it could open up whole new markets that you never considered, that’s another reason.

For that sort of money you may be able to find quality second-user examples of both, then you’d be fully tooled-up!

[James Langton]

No offense Ian. But if you really do not know what machine to buy there is something wrong. I could understand if you were choosing between a roland or a mutoh etc but between a router and printer are two totally different things.

But in my opinion, I would stick where you are cnc machines need to be kept busy. We have a large sign company here who have got a big cnc machine and we supply digital print to them and they supply us with a trade routing service, recently it has been dead down there.

Problem being is that more and more sheet suppliers are offering cnc routing. But the main thing being is that cnc routed products are generally expensive and it this climate business are looking for more cost effective advertising and to fit that criteria digital print seems to be one of the best answers in our industry.

Again though a printer needs to be kept busier than a router because of the heads. So if your not pushing out a lot of trade print then dont get a printer. Trust me we’ve got a Blizzard and that needs a lot of work throwing at it as it just speeds through the work.

Let somebody else look after the machine and worry about why the gray is coming out green :lol1:

[Ian Muir]

Thank you all for your thoughts…… yes difficult decision at first but now increasingly heading towards 3d CNC (perhaps both hopefully).

As said printed stuff c easier be out sourced, around my area there won’t be flocks of people expecting a printed whatever delivered in a few hours for them, but I would lose on expanding into wraps perhaps.
Easy enough to send off a disc or upload graphics and get by return cheaply.

A CNC, as said, opens up so many opportunities, not only in direct sign making output.

Downside is with a printer it would fit in my ‘home’ workshop but for a CNC I would need to find and rent premises obviously adding to costs before break even point, so it would have to do some work almost from the start.

I have a few reasonably thought out ideas for getting good work from it so am not so worried.

Best of all, as David says, think of all the fun I could have with such a beast…. :lol1:

Ian :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Ian
General consensus is dont buy either unless you can earn from it. and already have some work to justify the costs.

Its also easy to send of a file and get cnc cut within a reasonable time.

you are going to do it anyway by the sound of it, fair play Hope it works out for you.

Peter

[Kevin Flowers]

Ian
i agree with the others, but that said i think owning your own machine also allows you to develop ideas and in general do things you would normally do. I guess it just depends if you need the machine to be earning from day one, by the sounds of it you are in a position to purchase outright which then allows you some breathing space to develop a market. Its a big expense to have a machine as a learning hobby but i have to admit i have gone this route in the past.

Kev

[Graeme Harrold]

Have you got a laser????

[Gert du Preez]

Ian,

Since you seem concerned about depreciation, also consider that a good CNC router will have a useful life that will outlast a good printer by a factor of 3! Routing is routing, no "new best thing since sliced bread" can come along and tumble your router off it’s throne! Ten year old printers are totally useless today, while 10 year old routers still do the same job the newest ones do!

I bought a printer, but a router is in the cards as well. For me it was a simple choice: I had a large demand for print, and I could readily increase the amount of print supplied locally by virtue of reducing prices, not possible when I would outsource. But if you have to create a market/demand from scratch, routing should be the safer choice, since competitors / new upstarts in your area are more likely to buy a printer than a router.

There is also good possibilities for non-signage related products with CNC: Manufacturing moulds, cutting pipe flanges, cutting copper/cork gaskets, making wooden toys, making trophies/displays etc. And its a proper man’s tool, not some quasi office equipment…….

[Graeme Harrold]

quote Gert du Preez:

And its a proper man’s tool, not some quasi office equipment…….

Love that statement, I have a mini CNC router called a rotary engraving machine and yes it a MAN’s toy………….. :lol1: :lol1:

[James Langton]

Gert 10 year old printers are not totally useless. I used to work for a company than ran an old vutek machine. It was old about 15sqm an hour so not dead slow but the machine had paid for itself over and over again, never had a problem keeping up with work as we ran day & night. Now I would much rather have a machine which has paid for it self about 8 times. Rather than buy a new one every 4/5 years.

A lot of business like to keep with the newest kit. But as long as the customers get there stuff on time and to a quality they don’t care what you print it on, but if you can get that machine paying for it self over & over again then your doing something right.

[Mike Fear]

I agree with others that generally its not worth investing in expensive equipment in the hope it may bring in enough work to pay for itself.

When I bought the SP300V it was a logical step from making cut vinyl, and meant a lot of full colour jobs we were having to turn down, or spend ages making from cut vinyl, could be done quickly and easily.

It probably paid for itself within 4 months of being fully up and running, and was a good investment as it continues to generate more work and make us more money.

But… unless you are getting a lot of requests for stuff you cant make at the moment, then buying the machine and hoping to get work coming in to justify it is a bit of a risk.

In the past few years I haven’t had ONE enquiry for something that would need me to have a CNC router – OK, most of the work I do isnt in that sort of area, but you would imagine if there was a huge demand for the service, someone would have asked ?