which printer should i go for Grenadier or a Soljet?

[Chris Wool]

untill roland bought the max inks out the grenader inks had the edge but i have found the max inks to all they should be.

all depends on how offen you will be useing the machine i have stuck with eco sol inks because i think they are nicer to the machine and now work just as well.

there may be the odd material that full solvent will print on to over eco but it ant much.

of the standard vinyls eco sol max inks will not print well on to orical 751 but very well on to image perfect 5700.
of the dedicated print media no differance.

i think its down to weather you will get better service from roland or b/p in your area.

chris

[Brian Maher]

thanks chris..

right now service is one of the points we are also considering..

we are assured that there are engineers in the area but i guess thats something we will find out when we actually need one..

quality,print costs and reliability are our main concerns, as i said the pricing is very similar…

how is the ecosol ink on banner material?

[Robert Lambie]

it really is back to the versacamm "v" cadet… same machines basically but bigger and faster.

without going into the ins and outs of it all…

Buy a grenadier and you have the choice of using eco-inks or solvent inks at no extra cost. you can chop and change them as and when you like.

buy the roland machine and you are looking at £1000 conversion to be able to use solvent inks.

If it were me "today" with the same decision but i knew up front i would rarely be running the machine or prefer less odour, ide still buy the grenadier and run eco-inks with it…. that way you ALWAYS have the option to change your mind at no cost or inconvenience.

for the record i have had my grenadier for 2 years now…

[Chris Wool]

on banner used to have a lot of problems but with the max inks they are very very good a little slower drying than full solvent.

its debaitable if you need 6 colour printing over 4 colour and remember the soljet and grenadier have 12 carts not 4 and are faster for the same res and pass rate than the 4 colour ones.

chris

[Chris Wool]

good point rob but may still be service.

[Brian Maher]

cheers robert,

its a pretty close battle between the 2 but i see what you mean about being able to switch fron eco to full solvent…

are there any real restrictions with the ecosol inks…

will i need to laminate everything i print?

or would we be better going for full solvent? laminating only vehicle prints and long term outdoor work only…

[Robert Lambie]

quote Brian Maher:

would we be better going for full solvent? laminating only vehicle prints and long term outdoor work only…

that is basically all i do….

[Robert Lambie]

Brian, i would like to add mate… i think regardless to what machine you buy or supplier you use… you should be able to buy either machine and stipulate the ink you want to run in it.

there is always the argument of how often will you use a machine like this? however… do you buy a £20k machine to sit in the corner idle… no! we want this machine to pay for its keep….

what i would like to add, and have face to face with Roland several months back….
"why not do this yourself guys? why not offer the reinforced tubing/system and really give people an open opinion?"
surely this must cost buttons to adapt to thier machines?

I look forward to any reply from Roland Digital Group as i know they use these forums on a daily basis. i think it would be good to hear from their side of the fence on all this…

.

[Brian Maher]

we asked our roland rep this too….

if it can be done why dont roland do it themselves?
he didnt have any real answers to this…

i reckon we will be going for the grenadier though as roland have let us down on servicing in the past…. even with the chance to sell a soljet to us they still drag their heels…

i would have thought a potential customer with +30k euros to spend would be a priority… obviously not to roland ireland.. 😉

they have recently appointed a new guy in ireland, he has plenty of history with roland machine and we bought from him in the past through another company where he worked… we’ll see if he gets back to us anytime soon..

[Rodney Gold]

I think the reasons Roland dont do full solvent or offer the option is manifold
In the first place agressive solvents are a lot harder on components , especially if they werent designed for them
I am under the impression that to use the Epson Dx3 heads , Roland have to abide by an agreement to use Epson inks.
The full solvent inks are considered hazardous and there is Eu legislation that limits transport and the use of them , either its current or being tabled. Possibly the same world wide
Roland make money selling inks and media
Roland warrant their output on their approved media using their inks , using aftermarket is beyond their control.
I think they would be silly to offer anything than what they do , they have tried and tested it and it works , what possible motive can there be for them to sanction something they have to spend a lot of R&D money for and run the risk of having hassles with?
Obviously as consumers we would like the best of all worlds.
There really is one reason only to go with aftermarket inks and that is cost . The only time you will beneift is with a bulk ink system and a printer that works all day long , every day and you are competing in the bulk order market.
if you want a solvent machine , why not buy one designed as solvent from the word go?