where can i get a specific pantone coloured Vinyl?

[Shane Drew]

quote tech-designz:

Hi everyone,

Would appreciate advise on a project that we have been asked to carry out. Our client has asked us for specific Pantone coloured Vinyl.

Would appreciate if someone could advise me where I can get Pantone specific colour Vinyl, would appreciate contact details.

Our client has also asked me for 10% black vinyl, however, we have gone back to him and asked for a specific Pantone number, was I right to ask him to be specific?

Would appreciate any help

Kind Regards

Silvio

If he wants a pantone colour, he should be expected to supply the number. 10% vinyl is not really an description if he wants the vinyl colour, as it is a printing ‘term’. He probably want scool grey or warm grey, but he should be more descriptive all the same.

I don’t think it was wrong to ask him to be more specific

[David Rowland]

In practice, 10% of Black is CMYK and is a printer term, it is a white basically with a tint of black, Photoshop says it might be near Pantone 7541 (it isn’t), the only other blacks is the Warm Grey 1 and Cool Grey 1 which it isn’t. There is a Pantone Black library but I don’t have that swatch. A answer would be to print a square of 10% black onto vinyl and then cut your bits out of it and then apply backing.

[Glenn Sharp]

Avery do a range of pantone vinyls but it is not cheap – it is the 900 super cast range

It is not a full pantone range either…from memory I think it is only about 80 different colours

Ring Cox Plastics 0191 537 7000

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Shane,

Thanks for your prompt reply, I am glad Idid the right thing.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advise, I will wait for the outcome from our client to see what he comes back with for a Pantone Colour, as I do not want to take the risk in getting the shade wrong

I have just contacted dorotape, who do a limited range of Pantone colours. anyone else know of anywhere else?

Regards

Silvio

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for that, will look into that.

Regards

Silvio

[Tim Painter]

10% can be of any Pantone Spot colour or of the 4 Colour process.
Like 10% Magenta or 10% Pantone 280 etc.

10% Is a tint made up of dots through screening.

The spot Cool and Warm greys are spot colours and are solid so say Warm Grey 1 is a precise solid colour not a tint.
10% Is also very very light its barely off white I have a tint book here and you need to be at 15-20% before you get something that stands out on the sheet.

If there talking cut vinyl then they will have to specify a Pantone if they say tint they are talking out there watsit……sounds like a designer..lol
If its being printed then fine specify what ever tint they like.

Tim.

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the info, the colour they are asking for is a very light colour, as they want us to create a “watermark” type affect on their vans (46 of them!) however this is to be formed in cut vinyl.

I have told them that there is no such thing in cut vinyl, they have to specify a pantone colour for us to use.

Just to give you more info…..

Our client is a very large european company, who have just bought out this firm in Jersey and want ot rebrand their vehicles in line with the other fleet in Europe.

I was confused when they asked me for 10% black, as I have never heard this as a colour, it seems to indicate that they have just gone into the availble shades in Word, and used the 10% light grey.

Originally when we priced for the job it was to use the colours of vinyl readily availble from our suppliers, they never informed us that they wanted a specific Pantone shade.

Thanks for all the help chaps, its great to have the support of everyone here!

regards

Silvio

[Tim Painter]

What about using an etch type vinyl?

Just an idea. Has been done before on here.

[Simon Clayton]

What are they using on their fleet abroad?? that would be the best way of going..

Also, you can get vinyl colour matched to a specific pantone ref, as long as you have a lot, not sure how much properly around 500m, Then when that company changes all its vehicles, or just gets new one here and there, you will have the exact colour, hopefully meaning they will come back time and time again, and you won’t loose the job to anyone else quoting on a couple of their vans coz it won’t be worth their while getting colour matched vinyl..

Simon

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Tim,

Our clients only want us to use specific Pantone colours for their fleet. It is a pain in the backside, as it will mean allot of outgoing just for this one job.

Hi simon,

Had a quote for 1220 x 500m of material for £ 5k – think our supplier is having a laugh this is just for the so called “10% Black” as our supplier would make a the colour specifically for this job.

They have also quoted me £ 264.00 for1220 x 50m of Pantone mixed colour – again I think they are having a laugh.

Dorotape have been great have come up trumps with the Pantone colour, just have to sort out the grey.

We are confident that we will continue dealing with their fleet, as apparently they go through 4 to 5 new vehicles a day and allot of accident damage, this will be a great earner for us….hopefully.

Thanks for coming back to me chaps!

see ya

Silvio

[Shane Drew]

mate, oracal will produce the pantone colour for you as a special run. you need to order a minimum 300sqm but with 46 vehicles, that would probably be OK 🙄

just a thought

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote tech-designz:

They have also quoted me £ 264.00 for1220 x 50m of Pantone mixed colour – again I think they are having a laugh.

the price sounds alright to me (and the quote will get cheaper the more you buy)….specially if your getting to do the whole fleet day-in-day out…..’you have to buy materials in to get the contract out’, if you try and cut corners..someone else will likely overstep you and take the contract right from under your nose 😕 sorry to sound so blunt…but that is the sign business 😉

nik

[David Rowland]

Nik, makes me wonder about Silk screen, okay printing 1mtr box over a roll would take a long time, but if we could make a roller system which rolls an even amount of ink on over the length of the roll, we could roll vinyl and coat it with a particular pantone colour.

[Phill Fenton]

Have you considered printing the exact colours you need. For a short run this may be the answer (print and laminate using a print and cut colour printer). If the columes really are as per the carrot they are dangling then getting the vinyl custom made is probably the answer. Personally I wouldn’t go buying 50M of expensive custom vinyl until I was guaranteed to get the job doing the whole fleet

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Dave Rowland:

Nik, makes me wonder about Silk screen, okay printing 1mtr box over a roll would take a long time, but if we could make a roller system which rolls an even amount of ink on over the length of the roll, we could roll vinyl and coat it with a particular pantone colour.

dave there is machines & companys that do it…colour coating or something cannot remember the exact name…someone will hopefully remind me…john childs i think mentioned it a while back 😉 its the 10% thing that gets up my nose 😕 give me pots of paint and a pallete knife and i will mix you any colour you want…without the % 😀

nik

[Andy Gorman]

Dave, we had a machine like that at Fineline. Basically a rotary screen printing machine. I think it was a converted wallpaper printer.

Anyways, I think John Childs has a good contact for Pantone matched vinyl. Is he back from swanning around the States yet?

[David Rowland]

yes, I know what you mean Nik about 10% stuff, mixing ink is the easy way out option, no dot screens to worry about washing out/dust etc.

ok no worries, just thinking DIY all of a sudden and the principles of the old fashioned litho drum printing machine, a old fashioned washing mangle and exploding imaginations!

[John Simpson]

Silvio, I used to pull my hair out years ago with the same problem over pantone coloured vinyl until a friend of mine who does all my screen printing suggested screen printers ink mixed to a pantone No & a compressor & spray gun.
So simple, if you already have a compressor. A new spray gun capable of this job is roughly £35, 1 kg tin of ink is about £40 / £45 job done.
Downside to spraying this ink is it takes a while to dry enough before putting through your plotter, so i leave it overnight to dry.

If it hadn’t been for this advise i would have lost what turned out to be a very good repeat customer.

Hope this helps you, it certainly works & you only need your normal white vinyl to spray onto.

L J

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote John Simpson:

Silvio, I used to pull my hair out years ago with the same problem over pantone coloured vinyl until a friend of mine who does all my screen printing suggested screen printers ink mixed to a pantone No & a compressor & spray gun.
So simple, if you already have a compressor. A new spray gun capable of this job is roughly £35, 1 kg tin of ink is about £40 / £45 job done.
Downside to spraying this ink is it takes a while to dry enough before putting through your plotter, so i leave it overnight to dry.

agree with the idea john…but not practical for long runs it would take forever, and constistancy of the spraying is never true, i only ever do it this way for one off signs..and i would advise to drying time longer than overnight to dry, a few days is more the norm, as when you try and cut it out any earlier, it all curls up 😀

nik

[David Rowland]

tiz an interesting idea, didn’t really think of that and we have a spray booth. Then again, my mind is now thinking against print-rollers (or wall paper strippers) and a row of fine nozzles on two roll turners.. hmm.

Andy, not come across a cylinder screen thnig but that sounds interesting.

[Nicola McIntosh]

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … lor+colour

another thread on the subject 😀

nik

[Tim Painter]

Would love to know how you can spray 10%…..lol

[Simon Clayton]

Screen printing ain’t the way to go.. the vinyl ends up like chewing gum, also it’s not a smooth colour, you end up with ridges, dust, squeegee marks and faint lines, i would only use this method for short term stuff.
If your doing all their fleet, i would buy in 1000m as 46 vans would properly use near on 500m??

What do they use on the vehicles abroad, they may have a standard colour matched vinyl supplier?

10% black is just Grey, unless your talking tint, so spaying, rollering or screening ain’t a problem, but to do 500m with it all matching would be hard, plus take up miles of space.

Simon

[David Rowland]

anyway, how is the vinyl coloured anyway? Where is John Childs when u need him!

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the advise, I have to admit, I would be nervous using screen printing, I think that this would not last adequatley.

We have decided to use Dorotape for the Pantone coloured vinyl, and I have insisted that the client provides me with the Pantone Colour for the “10% black”.

John. your option of using a spray gun is intresting, I would be worried in paint peeling etc.

Anyway the cost that we have come in at will cover the materials. Dorotape can supply us with 1220 x 50m of Pantone vinyl at a good price. Just hope they will be able to supply me with the “10% grey” pantone colour.

Hopefully the client will come back to us with a pantone colour for the so called 10% black.

All the best

Regards

Silvio

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote tech-designz:

John. your option of using a spray gun is intresting, I would be worried in paint peeling etc.

you have no worries with the paint peeling with screenprinting inks…its stronger than the vinyl its self…thats why its not too good for cutting 😀

nik

[David Rowland]

Flood coating vinyl in 1.5mtr x 1mtr patches is not easy, dust and other artifacts are possible, but then you just print several sheets and not just one.

However extremly unlikely for ink to fall off, more likely with a solvent printer.

[tj_pierson]

We regularly screen flood coated sheets at 1.2×2.9 size, to wrap trains. Mainly when the quantity does not warrant a special colour vinyl, or the lead time is to long. We see very few problems in the quality of the colour when we screen print the sheets.

Because the trains go through aggressive washing we do have to clear coat the sheets to protect the ink.

Most of the vinyl manufacturers will make a special colour, even a single roll, but at a premium price. I agree with Nicola the price at £264 a roll is a good price.

[Cammy – Europoint Display]

HI There,

Shane is right most Cast manufacturers will colour match as little as 300m2 , £264 is a good price especially if you only have to buy 1 roll, the benefit of being self coloured is you will have no hassle with colour fade or affecting conformability and a lot less hassle i guess.

[Silvio Alves]

Hi everyone,

thanks for the response, I have decided to buy the role of vinyl in the Pantone colour, as I can get a roll of 1220 X 50m @ £ 260.00 which seems to be a good deal.

I am having problems with the black Pantone colour 5455c (the so called 10% black) I have tried Dorotape.co.uk who do not have this colour.

However never heard of the ‘C’ at the end of the number.

We have called Coxplastics, they must be closed as we keep getting their answerphone.

Can anyone else suggest where I could try for this Pantone 5455c ?

Thanks for the information regarding the spraying of the vinyl, however, this contract is big and could mean further work over the next few years, so I must ensure that we are consistant with the colour and quality.

Dave I totally agree with you, as I think you would have to have a sterile type environment to spray the vinyl, unfortunatley I do not have the resources to do this.

Once again many thanks!!

All the Best

Silvio

[David Rowland]

ok Silvio,

I guess your new to Pantone, it is just a reference guide for colours that are suitable for printing, thats all it is. If you struggle with colours then cut some vinyl squares off and post to client for matching reasons.

I have got my pantone book out and can see the colour 5455c, the ‘C’ means Coated, means it is printed on Shiny/glossy paper, ‘U’ means printed on Uncoated paper (like books)

If I was a mixing this for Silk Screen, it would be touch of Ref. Blue, YEllow, black and lots of White, mix it all together, and you should get a white with blueish/blackish light tint.

I don’t have an Avery or Oracle book handy, but I would now be choosing the nearest vinyl and posting them this. If they don’t like it then Tuff.

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Dave…
you can tell I am new to the old pantone….lol

have never had a problem with the colour we hold, just that this company is awkward, I am sure I will find what I am looking for,

Thanks for the insight into pantone mate

see ya

[Simon Clayton]

APA do a dove grey, that is very very close match (if they still do it) i would see if they go for thaat colour..

Simon

[John Simpson]

quote Nicola McIntosh:

quote John Simpson:

Silvio, I used to pull my hair out years ago with the same problem over pantone coloured vinyl until a friend of mine who does all my screen printing suggested screen printers ink mixed to a pantone No & a compressor & spray gun.
So simple, if you already have a compressor. A new spray gun capable of this job is roughly £35, 1 kg tin of ink is about £40 / £45 job done.
Downside to spraying this ink is it takes a while to dry enough before putting through your plotter, so i leave it overnight to dry.

agree with the idea john…but not practical for long runs it would take forever, and consistency of the spraying is never true, i only ever do it this way for one off signs..and i would advise to drying time longer than overnight to dry, a few days is more the norm, as when you try and cut it out any earlier, it all curls up 😀

nik

sorry about that Nik, you are quite right, i certainly wouldn’t spray paint much more than a couple of meters of vinyl as most of us haven’t got sterile workshops for this type of job.

the reason i mentioned spraying this job is because i am guilty of doing a “peter normington” …………speed reading obviously not my forte either, didn’t realise the volume of vinyl required, sorry everyone, i’ll go back to sleep now 😳

L J

[Silvio Alves]

Cheers Simon,

Will check the company out in the morning.

Regards

Silvio

[Tim Painter]

Silvio

I think your client has caused you more hassle than was required on this.
As I understand it there original design uses a 10% Tint of Black, for the cut Vinyl they will replicate this with a Vinyl as close to Pantone 5455.

So if they had said match Pantone 5455 in the first place you could of sent them a sample of a light dove grey and be all sorted……..

[David Rowland]

Is this for a white van (or surface), will this colour show up anyway?

[Simon Clayton]

I think it’s mean’t to be a water mark Dave

Simon

[Jayne Marsh]

Try a pearl grey Mactac 9800 spec no 9889-04 from All print supplies or a similar supplier. I have used this colour many times as a watermark and it works very well. It is a pretty good match to that pantone ref.
In fact Im cutting some now for a job myself! :lol1:

[John Childs]

Andy,

Yes, I am still cruising the USA. 3,000 miles in two weeks and not finished yet. Eat your heart out. 😀

Silvio,

This is on a hotel computer so I need to be quick but…..

1. How much material do you need for each van times number of vans. This will tell you whether having to buy 1220 by 50 metre rolls is a cost and stocking problem or not. If you need enough then this is not a problem.

2. What type of material do you need? Is it flat panel work so you can use a calendered material or will it have to be cast?

A couple of manufacturers have Pantone matches, but very limited range of colours. From memory Ri-Mark is one of those and I believe that Doro sell that make. If they can supply your colour at 264GBP (this keyboard doesn’t have a pound symbol) then I suspect that you have got very lucky indeed and fallen on one of those colours.

Failing that you would need to go to Cox Plastics for an Avery 900 match. As mentioned above this is expensive but if the livery involves fitting to any compound curves at all then you need this quality of material anyway so cost is not an issue – you wil have to pay it and pass it on to your customer.

Although the 900 swatch book contains only about 80 colours I was told that it is their aim to produce every colour there is so either get an up to date swatch or, better yet, ring Cox Plastics and ask.

Finally, before I get thrown out of here, if the volume required is great enough then Avery will colour match 800 series as well, but the minimum quantity for that is 250 metres as opposed to the 50 metres you can get 900 in.

I only print colours as a desperation measure. There are too many problems, and if your client is a large multi-national then I wouldn’t go down that route. If you want I can go into deatil but that will have to wait until I have more computer time.

Good luck.

[Silvio Alves]

Hi John,

Seems you are having a great time in your travels

Thank you for the info, I have contacted Cox Plastics they can supply me with the “grey” pantone vinyl at £ 15.75 per m, I will have to go back to my client, as when we tendered for this project they never mentioned to us that wanted specific pantone colours.

We would use cast vinyl for this job, I estimated that we would need in the region of 75m as the watermark affect that they want is very large.

We could absorb the £ 260.00 for the colour that they wanted, but certainly not for the above.

Should be interesting…Doro are sending me a sample of a colour which they tell me is very similar to the grey that they are after, will have to see what they think.

I must admit I would not go down the route of painting vinyl.

The other problem with this is that I would have to stock this £ 15.75m vinyl and would probably have to wait for some time to get this material paid for.

I think that we will have to ask them for a deposit on this material, didn’t want to go down this route, but it is a large outlay just for 1 colour.

Jayne, thanks for the info, I will get a sample of this too to see if this will be acceptable to them.

Simon and Dave, yes this is for a watermark.

Hi Tim, Exactly right Tim, they never informed us when we were pricing for this job that they wanted specific colours, I stock a very light grey and suggested this colour without success, we even gave them a sample.

Have to see how we get on with the samples, when they arrive.

Regards

Silvio

[Simon Clayton]

Silvo, did you try APA?
i would say that dove grey colour was spot on

Simon

[Silvio Alves]

Hi Simon,

have you got there contact number?

I will try them too.

Thanks

Silvio

[Simon Clayton]

here you go.. APA 020 8311 4400

Simon

[Silvio Alves]

Thanks Simon!