When a hardware supplier becomes a printer…Is it fair?

[David Hammond]

It is a little naughty, especially if they’re getting preferential rates on Ink & Media, of which we cannot compete.

If they’re only supplying to their customers, who have bought machinery, and only acting as an overflow/backup, it’s an added service… but if they’re selling against their own customers who buy consumables, it’s certainly stepping on their toe’s.

[KevinGaffney]

We have same thing here but said company have lost a lot of material sales from me over the years for their greed

[Unknown Member]

I think we should name and shame them to be honest…. :bigsmile:

[Andy Thorne]

Not only the print trade i’m afraid guys. We have been a trade supplier of metalwork for signs for nearly 30 years. A few years ago now a couple of well known metal stockists decided they would add trade sign services to their portfolios and offer trays, traffic signs etc. All the sort of work we do. We now have to compete against them sometimes where they clearly have an advantage in the base price of the material required. Far from fair but all you can do is provide a better service and/or a better quality job and hope that swings it (generally does for us) although to be fair most of our work is bespoke fabrications now.

[Unknown Member]

It’s nice how these suppliers are not even trying to hide it.

Just came across this

https://www.facebook.com/signmasterprint/

I had a lot of time for Phil and Signmaster but this is a rather bold move and one that will annoy a few people.

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[Iain Pearson]

Although it may be annoying and perhaps a little underhanded I personally don’t see it as a huge issue.
They may be able to produce, but can they offer all the other services that go with it, design/install/servicing etc ?
A bit of healthy competition doesn’t hurt anyone, and lets face it, if my business had a downturn but I found an alternative means of income, then I’d take it without question, and I’m sure most of you would too.
It happens in most industries and one of the downsides to being a business owner.
Don’t feel negative, be positive and make your products and services the best they can be. [emoji106][emoji6][emoji16]

[David Hammond]

Healthy competition is fine if it’s a level playing field. If they’re getting media & consumables at cost it’s not healthy competition.

Will it be trade only, or a free for all?

[Unknown Member]

Love a bit of healthy competition this isn’t the issue, and being a businessman with several businesses outside of printing with everything from bars, food and property I’m the first for an opportunity but there is that one thing called ethics and being ethical.

It’s not always about how much money you make, being honourable, having morals, running an ethical firm, being honest with the right principal far outweighs a couple of extra quid.

This is far from a negative post its merely to see how others would feel if they purchased a print from the very firm who was selling print to compete with them, as David said they will have the best rates on everything so in a better position from the offset.

[David Hammond]

I admit, I have placed an order with then as we’re going to pick up a new machine, and hopefully the ink they didn’t have in stock. The price for printed & laminated print was very good.

Looking at the link from James, it appears they’ve taken over the printing business opposite signmaster, and will be supplying end users also.

I bet there’s a few unhappy companies more local.

[Iain Pearson]

I totally agree with the moral aspect James, and I agree with your accompanying sentiments but sadly some have no morals or scruples .
I’m like you, I have many irons in many fires but I’d never sell anyone out to earn a few extra quid.
Sadly there is little that can be done as no laws have been broken

[Steff Davison]

You hit the nail on the head James, ETHICS…. some companies I have come across in the short time I have been in business couldnt lie straight in bed.

Integrity will win in the end.

[Unknown Member]

quote Steff Davison:

You hit the nail on the head James, ETHICS…. some companies I have come across in the short time I have been in business couldnt lie straight in bed.

Integrity will win in the end.

LIE STRAIGHT IN BED…..Hahahah….As an East Londoner I thought I’d heard all the one liners….This has to be one of the best!

ETHICS is what it is all about in my opinion!

[Denise Goodfellow]

We went to a show at Signmaster, must be over 4 years ago, I commented that how funny to have a print supplier just feet away from a machine/material supplier.
So it’s been going on for at least 4 years…

It goes on in all trades, trade suppliers feeling the pinch so sneak a covert company in, to pick up end user jobs.

Doesn’t a major supplier produce traffic signage..
I can remember kpmf direct, used to print banners, that was at least 7 years ago

On another forum, another trade supplier of a boards was found out to have a "sister company" who sold to the public on eBay for the same or slightly less than trade bought off them…

Vote with your money when you buy new equipment

[Mark Newman]

I use them, and get on great with them, although the prices have all be jacked up lately.

I’m not impressed they’re now competing in the trade, not near me but it goes against my morals.

I have a printer from them and use seiko inks, and also buy my metamark vinyl from them, I may need to look around for a new supplier

[Stafford Cox]

As a supplier, I find it unethical to sell prints or signs to the trade or public full stop. If an ‘overflow’ situation arises with a customer, they’re more than welcome to come and use one of our demo or workshop machines on a temporary basis but that’s as close as we get. I’m quite surprised at Signmaster for doing this as they do seem to have a mostly good reputation in the industry.

Just my 2 pence worth.

Stafford.

[Paul Hodges]

James is correct…and still being polite about it actually.

The fact is, you can’t have it all ways. You can’t sell hardware to a trade like this, then undermine everyone by competing against them, doesn’t matter whether they take money off you in sales directly or not, the principal and intent, is to do so should the opportunity arise.

That is an ethos that none of us has to entertain and given that there are plenty of suppliers of printers and materials, we can all simply choose to put our business elsewhere purely out of principal.

Maybe then, some of these outfits will realise where to draw the line if they want to keep our goodwill.

I would like to know all the companies who are doing this.

[David Hammond]

My dad was down at Signmaster today collecting our new Plotter. Whilst waiting he got talking to the staff down there, and mentioned how it’s a little uncomortable dealing with a supplier, who now supplies end users with finished products.

Print Monkey Pro & Signmaster are now the same, and trading from the same unit. From the conversation he had, it sounds like they’re continuing with the end user work Print Monkey supplied before this amalgamation.

They will supply the trade, however they’re not looking to go massive this.

Having not visited myself I don’t know what the set up is there, and what facilities they have.

[Warren Beard]

I used to use signmaster but stopped using them for other ethical issues so not surprised they would do something like this. Sign Waves is another one who deals in similar ways with operating side line companies offering the same products less than trade price. I had a quote for about 100 signboards and found they were quoting my client direct, my trade price for blanks was higher than their printed signs they quoted. How do you compete against that [emoji15][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35]

[Denise Goodfellow]

We won’t be using them again, unless they announce they are trade suppliers only. Even then it’s a blurred line as they will have end user data base and who would just delete that off the system.

[David Hammond]

The snag we have is running the OKI, with 12months left on it’s warranty, we have to buy the inks from Signmaster to maintain their warranty. Until recently there was only them supplying inks but now RGB UK are selling OKI’s too.

I can’t fault the OKI, it’s a belting machine, but with hindsight, sticking with Roland would mean inks & engineers are more accessible… I think it will be a switch back to Roland when the time comes.

[Steff Davison]

quote David Hammond:

The snag we have is running the OKI, with 12months left on it’s warranty, we have to buy the inks from Signmaster to maintain their warranty. Until recently there was only them supplying inks but now RGB UK are selling OKI’s too.

I can’t fault the OKI, it’s a belting machine, but with hindsight, sticking with Roland would mean inks & engineers are more accessible… I think it will be a switch back to Roland when the time comes.

I have never purchased anything from this company, however, you HAVE to buy ink from them to maintain the warranty!!?

Its not enough that you have to purchased OEM ink, it HAS to be from them. I am taking a bit of a guess here, but I imagine the exact same OEM ink can be purchased for less from an alternative authorised source.

That one condition of sale would have me walking away from the deal.

[David Hammond]

It’s Signmaster’s engineers that come to fix the machine, not OKI’s. As far as I know, until recently they were the only UK distributor of the machines.

This only came to light after I found the inks cheaper from an online retailer.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 😆 😆

[Paul Hodges]

quote Warren Beard:

Sign Waves is another one who deals in similar ways with operating side line companies offering the same products less than trade price.

This is interesting to know. I use Signwaves quite frequently but will revise this now.

[Martin Cole]

quote Paul Hodges:

quote Warren Beard:

Sign Waves is another one who deals in similar ways with operating side line companies offering the same products less than trade price.

This is interesting to know. I use Signwaves quite frequently but will revise this now.

Same here, very disappointing to hear, I’ve spent thousands with them over the past few years.
would be interesting to hear the other company name they are selling through?

Interesting thread though.

In short these companies seem to want the best of both worlds.

I think once trade only suppliers loose their integrity peolpe will loose trust in them as we are being shown in this tread.
Again has been said It simply comes down to Ethics plain and simple. ( there are certain things you just don’t do in business and this is one of them!)

Vote with your feet and find alternative suppliers

[Warren Beard]

quote Martin Cole:

quote Paul Hodges:

quote Warren Beard:

Sign Waves is another one who deals in similar ways with operating side line companies offering the same products less than trade price.

This is interesting to know. I use Signwaves quite frequently but will revise this now.

Same here, very disappointing to hear, I’ve spent thousands with them over the past few years.
would be interesting to hear the other company name they are selling through?

Interesting thread though.

In short these companies seem to want the best of both worlds.

I think once trade only suppliers loose their integrity peolpe will loose trust in them as we are being shown in this tread.
Again has been said It simply comes down to Ethics plain and simple. ( there are certain things you just don’t do in business and this is one of them!)

Vote with your feet and find alternative suppliers

This goes back about a year and did some investigations in to it to find out more but can’t remember every detail but my customer was getting them from Tullford signs, I noticed their contact email was a different name which was BD&H Ltd who I think is part of Sign Waves or something. They were all tied together somehow but can’t remember exactly.

[Lorraine Clinch]

I noticed their contact email was a different name which was BD&H Ltd who I think is part of Sign Waves or something. They were all tied together somehow but can’t remember exactly.

Warren, very interesting, I use Signwaves in Great Yarmouth a lot, (for pavement signs and other hardware, not printing) as they are only about 15 miles from me. BD & H are in Norwich, about the same distance, although I haven’t used them for many years, I did do for screen printing once. I never knew they were linked.