whats your thoughts on constructive criticisim?

[Paul Meadows]

Sometimes we’ve looked at our design so long we can’t see the flaws in it.

Very true Jill, thats why this forum is so usefull.
You have a very good eye for a well designed graphic.
Have you had formal training in art and design or are you a natural or both?
Paul

[Glenn Sharp]

Yes my input is valid…. whether I post designs for critique or not

I have made & manufactured signs for over twenty years now & although I don’t ask for help on here I have tried to help others whenever I can. So if I make a comment it is always with the best intentions

I think you are taking it a bit too personally Jill. If you are prepared to show your ideas on here in a very public forum you should be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

Might not be a popular point of view but that is my opinion & you did ask

[Jayne Marsh]

I think that if you are prepared to make a criticism or offer help then you should put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. Let everyone see the sort of work that you do and offer their comments on your stuff. It’s easy to sit on the wall and criticise others but it would be nice to know that the person offering suggestions knows what they are talking about and can show some work of their own to back up their experience.
I love it when I show something Ive done and someone turns around and says “I would have done it this way” it makes you think about the other persons point of view.

[Danny McGregor]

Hi Jill,

As a major contributor to this site, I reckon you’ve earned the right to rant on it any time you like.

Just thought I’d add to some of the points you made…

QUOTE “Constructive criticism is a very helpful tool.
Sometimes we’ve looked at our design so long we can’t see the flaws in it. But it’s easy to feel slighted when someone cuts your idea to pieces.”

I recently posted for some suggestions for our own van, and you and a few others were generous enough with your time to offer comments and advice. We’re still playing around with ideas, but hopefully we’ll post again when we think we have something nearly finalised. I wouldn’t have posted if I had been afraid of any possible negative responses, but I think some people might be. It’s worth remembering that the written word can often appear a lot harsher than a conversation where the tone used can take the edge off what appears in print to be a cutting remark.

QUOTE “it makes me mad when someone who has never posted their own work turns into Sign God and offers real criticism without giving any of their own feedback”

As I’m relatively inexperienced in the area of design, I don’t feel I’m in any position to criticise the work of others, or to offer suggestions for layouts. I agree with your comment regarding the QUOTE “that looks Brill!” type of posting, so consequently I don’t post very often, and I think that this leads me into a CATCH 22 situation. I have been a member of a number of online forums in recent years (not sign or work related), and one of them posted the following statistics…
QUOTE “56% of the posts on this forum come from 3.5% of its members.
With 28,359 posts out of 50,657 total coming from the top 50 posters”. I don’t know if Rob has the stats for uksignboards, but I’d be surprised if they are significantly different. The other catch arising from this situation is that when posting for help on another forum, I was once told that I wouldn’t get much by way of assistance because I wasn’t a regular contributor. Again, I don’t know, but this could also apply to uksignboards. There may be many reasons why members don’t post very often. Fear of being shot down in flames was a major one cited on the forum I quoted from above, but in my case there are 2 real reasons;

1) I don’t know where you regular contributors find the time! I certainly can’t
2) I only post if I think I can add something that no-one else has, e.g. I was sure I had the Plantin font someone was looking for, but by the time I’d searched through my CDs someone else had posted it.

Anyway regulars, keep up the good work. It is appreciated by the rest of us.

Danny

[Glenn Sharp]

Just to add to the other replys – I agree with a lot of what Deemac has said

As an employee I get on here when I can – I certainly haven’t got the time to do designs & layouts (as much as I would like too) but I will try & help by chipping in when I can – I understand what Jayne is saying that by backing your points up by showing your own work will probably go down better on here but it is not always possible.

I think it was the referece to “Sign God” that got my back up – There are a lot of experienced signmakers out there that might not have the time to input their ideas as much as they would like… but it doesn’t make them any less valid when they do

[Carrie Brown]

I think what peeps are getting at …. is not to put down anyone for not contributing every day here …. but more the people who come here and visit but rarely join in with any topic and never say more than 6 words at a time …. but when they do make a post its made in a very negative way …. such as saying “oh no I dont like that” or “I dont like the use of the red text” ….. basically they give a criticism but not a constructive one ……. Its better that if they like something or dont like something its nice if they can elaborate on their thoughts a bit, explain why you dont like something not just give the negative of “that doesnt work” etc ……

I guess its a case of give “constructive” criticism or keep the criticism tucked away in a box!

😀

[Jill Marie Welsh]

That’s exactly wheat I meant, Carrie.
And even a Newbie can tell us why they do or don’t like something.
Or an old crustacean like me.
Love…..Jill

[John Cornfield]

I agree if you cant say anythingnice the don’t say it.

Also may i add the negativity is from the same people.

[Shane Drew]

You are not out of line Jill. You know my views on this subject too.

I have made the same point here in the past. A lot of people ask, but only a relative few give.

I don’t actually have a problem with that in a sense either, but I think it is fair to say that you are probably looking on these and other forums for ideas or you want to improve your game. There is no better way to improve than to post your work and let others give constructive comments.

I have been in this game many years, and I am still learning from others, either Jill or Jayne, Peter and even the odd newbie.

As far as posting help on others designs, I don’t have a lot of time left in my day either. I am usually on here at midnight or at 6am before work, which is not my most creative time, but I do help if I can. A comment of support or suggestion that may help is all that is needed. That does not take long. So whatever your circumstances, if you have the time to browse here and see what is happening, surely you have the time to make a comment either way on someones design. Just make sure it is constructive, and no one will mind I’m sure.

There are many on the UKSB that easily make this the premium signmakers site. It is just a few that can’t see the value of participation that tend to cause the most negativity I have found.

Sorry to go on, but I know how Jill feels sometimes.

[J_J_O]

Personally I don’t see many people posting things that could make others “hot under the collar”. I do see more and more people complaining about not giving back enough.
Fact is: in forums there is always a group of people that make the forum and there is a much larger group (newbies) that comes to the forum to learn and get what they were looking for (first thing I did when I found this forum; I printed 60 pages of the demo-section).
I have asked a lot already and am very happy with the valuable responses I got. These topics are now on this forum for any newbie (and pro), so it makes the forum even better. As I am new to signmaking I don’t have many answers to most of the questions being asked here yet, for now I am here to learn.

quote :

What makes me a little hot under the collar is when people who NEVER contribute any suggestions as to what a design could use for betterment are so quick to say “I don’t like it” when someone else puts up a design, honestly trying to help the initial poster.

Maybe I am on the wrong topics, but I really don’t see any post like you describe … only one comment I can find is one of myself in this topic. And I can’t imagine that made you ‘hot under the collar’.

JJ

[Robert Lambie]

I agree in many ways…

Like Carrie says, if the constructive criticism isn’t constructive, then don’t give it!

Yes, we post our work to be commented on, but commented on “properly” is how it should be. I don’t even think it’s a case of someone not showing their work and commenting out of line, even if we are god’s gift in the design department & post every day, it doesn’t give us the right to sit back and shoot folk down.

As admin, I need to play both sides the fence. I want to encourage folk, newbie or pro to post their work. If a newbie posts something that’s simply terrible.

I don’t just say,
“Get your coat mate, the taxi’s waiting”

I should reply with something like

“Good job & thanks for posting. As way of constructive crit you could do this, and that, as that’s out of line, oh and maybe change that font… “
Leave it at that and let others do similar. I think by the time a few posts have went in the person will get the idea that he needs to go back to the drawing board, BUT… and its a big old BUT… he doesn’t feel offended, he isn’t scared to rear his head for round two. And that, in my honest opinion, is how it should be. That newbie’s post could last 10 pages, but sure as sugar, by the end of it all he’s learned something. And every other newbie falling up reading same…

Take same scenario with 2, maybe 3 replies as follows…

Oh that’s crap!
Not my idea of a good design!
Did your kid design that?

Not only will we not see this guy post his work again, but every newbie reading that post will feel intimidated and probably not post either.

Anyway, im babbling, “Someone going to kick my soap box away?”

At the end of the day, if you don’t like something then fine say so, you have the right too!
But… in doing so, it should be followed by “why” you think it is bad & “how” you would suggest the poster correct his errors. If that is not possible, then maybe not replying at all is better all round?