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What would you do ????
In May 2003 I lettered a guy’s shop front with vinyl graphics, I billed him and…… you guessed it … nothing!!! no payment.I rang him several times ( you all know the story ) … sorry I forgot,,, cheque is in the post.
Four months past and no payment, so last week I wrote him a letter saying if I didnot recieve payment within five days further action would be taken.The five days came and past and still no money so last weekend I went to the shop and removed every other letter, that will teach him I thought !!! As I removed the vinyl letters some of the background paint came away with the vinyl, serves him right I thought, he should have payed his bill.
Then…… yesterday I got a cheque as payment for the job!!!
So what do I now do??
To put the job right will cost more than the original job because now the background colour needs touching in where the letters pulled the paint off, and if I now put the job right he might not want to pay me the extra money.
Do I walk away with his money and leave him with half a sign or put the job back to how it was and loose the cost of re-doing the job ??? -
14 Replies
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Sorry to here about your dilemma đ„
Send him a written quotation for repainting the sign and replacing the letters break the quotation down in two parts so he can clearly see what he is paying for. Preparing sign base suitable for lettering ÂŁx and to supply and fit new letters ÂŁx clearly state that due to the unfortunate circumstances that led you to removing your property that any future work will only be undertaken after you receive full payment in advance.
and on receipt of this you will guarantee a replacement sign be reinstated within 1 Week.and don’t do it to cheep (:) (:) (:)
Good Luck Neil….
PS insist on 50 % in advance in future and final payment when the jobs done we are sign makers not Banks.
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Make him pay again
AND GET THE MONEY PAID IN FULL, FIRST.
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THe main question is , does he know it was you or does just think it was vandals. Don’t volunteer info he may not know
Kev
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I would send him replacement letters for him to fit himself. How he does it is his problem đ .
He thinks he’s being clever putting the onus back on you – by sending him back replacements for the letters you removed, I reckon you are covered.
Bank the cheque quickly though.
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Legally you are actually a little buggered – morally you are sort of justified.
Thing is , unless he signed a disclaimer or terms and conditions stating that all work done or stuff used is your property until paid for , he legally owns that sign etc – the recourse you had was to to sue him civily and reposses. Thing is , you have done so without legal right and have further damaged his property.
If he wanted to get nasty – he could most likely charge you for damage to property , or at the very least insist you repair it.
However , he would have to prove it WAS you that defaced the sign for any of that to succeed. (You could escape that way if you wish)
Thing is , you have been paid for the job and he doesnt have a sign – regardless of how he gave you the runaround so for the sake of good customer relations and not having this whole thing turn into a legal nightmare I would swallow the cost of redoing it or at least enter into some negotiation with him on it.
This is a very sticky situation which I would not like to be in. -
I really wouldn’t worry about it. It’s more trouble than it’s worth for him to take you to court, in much the same way as he thought it would be too much trouble for you to try and get your money by conventional means (and we all no how much of a waste of time that can be). I would have done the same as you. You were simply re-claiming your property (which you are entitled to do considering he hadn’t paid).
My guess is he’ll take it on the chin so wait and see what happens đ
If things get nasty you can always put things right – but don’t be too hasty to offer
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I agree with Phill…
If there’s one thing working for yourself does to you – it’s ‘harden you up’!
The big mistake here (not being funny) is assuming that the customer has the same morals you do!…When someone doesn’t pay you for such a long time they are showing nothing but pure contempt for both you and what you’ve done. In no uncertain terms, they are dismissing you as ‘unimportant’ !!! Any decent person would have rung you and sorted out some form of payment long ago.
There’s an old saying: “…fool me once shame on you – fool me twice shame on me!…” Never a truer word said…so don’t let this situation be one where he ‘fools you twice’!
I would do nothing until the customer asks about it…chances are he’s either too embarassed or too scared to do anything more about it – and will likely have the paint and signwork re-done by someone else! The fact is that ‘scared’ is the keyword here…you said he paid you after you’d taken down the lettering – chances are he then became ‘scared’ about what else you might do if he didn’t pay you! A lot of people who don’t pay aren’t ‘hard nuts’ – they’re just little sh*ts who think you’ll be too nice to say anything – all they need is a slap…
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it – honest, just keep thinkning to yourself ‘it’s his fault – NOT MINE!” Forget all the legal crap and deal with this on a ‘law of the jungle’ basis…if he wants you to put it right then he’s gunna have to ask nicely and pay for it too! You gotta learn to be a little proud and defiant in this game if you’re gunna survive.
Always remember – if he has treated you this way then the chances are he treats everyone this way and so no one will blame you for sitting tight! – they’re all probably wishing they had done the same too. There’s no customer relations to save – people like this are not customers – they’re parasites!
Unless he’s a lawyer – or married to one, I wouldn’t worry about the legal side of things…it’s not worth it for either ‘camp’…
good luck
more soon
mikethesign
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A lawyer friend of mine says you are allowed to remove work etc if it is inpaid for, but you must not CAUSE any damge to the property in doing so.
The shop whatever must be left in the way you found it before the work was undertaken.He can quite legally now send you an inovoice for making good any damage you have caused, which will also be criminal damage.
Might be a good time to bite the bullet and take your medicine.
Talk to the man and see if an amicable soultion can be found.
Tim
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Shame on you Brian why didn’t you ask me to do the vinyls!!
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Bank the money and forget about it…
If he had paid on time, the background damage wouldn’t have been done..
If he wants a new sign get him to go elsewhere, if he take you to court, offer to repaint the background..(this can be done via letter to the court)
Why should us signmakers be made a fool of..layout money and time for these people try and take us for a ride.I got stung a while back..ordered material for a rush job, they paid a deposit then cancelled the cheque, i was left with banners and other stuff which i have still got..
The funny thing is, one of the partners of that other business wants me to quote for window signs on his other business..i will now take great pleasure in giving him the runaround…not turning up at site knowing he has made a trip on saturday (when normaly he don’t open) đ
Then say i’ll meat ihim in about an hour..etc đ -
What you feel like doing, what you should do, and what you did do are three different things!
My understanding of the law here is once it’s attached to the building/wall/whatever, the sign ceases to become yours, and to take it back is actually theft, regardless of whether or not you were paid for it. It has the same building value as lights, some curtains, tap fittings etc- they stay with the building if a tenant moves out or the building is sold etc.
Did he see you pull them off? This affects what you do next! (but bank the cheque quickly!)
Some good comments above.
Best wishes (:) -
Hi ian.. Had a quick look.
Some really nice work on the site.. Well done.
The site is fine, but like you said it does need a little tweaking here and there. My advice here is not always easy to do & in some cases, simply not possible.
Ill try explaining.When I flicked through the pages I felt bits and peaces of the navigation, title jumped about a little. What I mean by that is when you make each page. I think you have made them to suit that pages content. Not to suit all the pages running together.
What I would advise is to make one page a template. Navigation the exact same on each page and same with the title.. Because itâs a web page. The large title etc isnât really needed. Make it smaller and it will load faster also. Keep it on all pages but have a sub title in text only appear below it. That way it will load fast.
Because each page title and navigation is always the same. The page artwork will already be in the viewers cache files so it wonât down load them ever page turn. It will only download the new images as they appear.
Having the same navigation on every page makes browsing easier too. I wouldnât have just âhomeâ on it. That means every time they visit a page they have to go back to home to find another. This is a self-preference of my own. But something I ended up ânotâ doing here on the boards for a few reasons.
Look at the image I have below.
The lightened area is were I would imagine everything should be the same. When you turn the page.. The only thing that happens is all the content out with the light areas changes..
This is easy to do. Like I said above. Just create the first page.. When completed, delete all the info & images in the darker area keeping the navigation and header the same. Then load all the info for page 2 in the dark area. Save as page two. When you flick one to the other the navigation and title stays the exact same, doesnât move or jump. It also doesnât need to re-load itself.when you make your buttons. try making the text on the button part of the image. then make the image the link. this will make sure the text always lines up on the button.
Hope my rambling makes sense, & helps you a little.. đ
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a good example of this type of website is this one..
works very well. seen it today while browsing some posts on letterheads.
http://www.imagemakerart.com/ -
Thanks Rob. “Iknow, I know I know…!” What you suggested is very clear, and was intended, it’s just that we wandered off plot a bit during the rush in construction. I must get back to it.
The navigation bars are all due for customising in a more appealing & useful way- and some titles fall off the buttons altogether I know- that came from getting it up quickly, rewording it & deciding to go back to the original wording, then somehow you don’t quite get back to re-edit the whole thing as work/family preside!
The heading is open at the right- I was going to put a pick of the two shop vans there, newly signwritten , but that hasn’t happened- I suppose a digital mock-up would do (not!).
The Koala pic & wood panel comes from our yellow pages ad & a few signs & letterheads we use, but this year’s yellow pages has been revamped to only promote out website and nothing else (except phone no.), and I did away with the wood panel.
I still want to add some step-by-steps for some of the waggon-building & painting projects, plus some stories of some of the older(deceased) painters I’ve known.
Not enough hours between 1 am & 2 am each day though!
I appreciate the advice & comments- thanks very much.
Best wishes
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