What material is this?

[Jason Xuereb]

A weatherproof plaster board? That blue stuff painted?

[Warren Beard]

From what I saw it looked thinner than plaster board and looks very old.

not sure what is blue but the current sign is green vinyl.

cheers

Warren

[Bill McMurtry]

Could be cement sheet? If so then it will be a pain to deal with (brittle) and you’ll need to locate the position of the wooden framework that the sheets are fixed to.

I notice someone got the angle of "10% off all fabrics" wrong 😳 😀

[Warren Beard]

Hi Bill

Thankfully it wasn’t me who did the other graphics :lol1:

Would there be any other way to attach to it? if I went very deep would that work?

cheers

Warren

[Bill McMurtry]

By "very deep" I assume you mean to use very long fixings? Might be that the other side of the cavity is internal plaster wall board, you wouldn’t want to go there 😮

You’ll usually find framework are under the sheet joins 😉

[Jason Xuereb]

If you got nothing behind it. Dibond tray it fix it to the studs and fix your letters to the tray 🙂

[Warren Beard]

good idea Jason and it might have to be my only option. Although it is not letters I am attaching it is a 8mm sheet of acrylic (2200mm X 900mm) sitting on 10 standoffs.

It still might be my only option though.

cheers

Warren

[Russell Spencer]

quote Warren Beard:

good idea Jason and it might have to be my only option. Although it is not letters I am attaching it is a 8mm sheet of acrylic (2200mm X 900mm) sitting on 10 standoffs.

It still might be my only option though.

cheers

Warren

that will be a very heavy sign, if you are standing it off on spacers then you will need secure fixing for at least four of them either into brickwork or into the timber/metal frame if there is one.
I wouldn’t attach sign that heavy just to cladded panels without finding a good anchor point.

[Warren Beard]

Hi Signsurfer

This is why I began the thread as I am worried the surface is not going to be solid enough for me to anchor these standoffs. I will be doing another site inspection tomorrow so hopefully will be able to find out more.

Surely there must be some sort of brick structure below it, We do not build with these sort of materials where I come from so it is fairly new to me.

cheers

Warren

[Mike Grant]

Warren, be aware that the locator "female cups" only have a safe working life of 4 years before they should be replaced. I always keep a data base of jobs with locators and contact the customer when they are due for replacement. The cups go brittle with age/uv or you should use brass locators
I love it when customers say "My sign has been vandalised" when their letters drop off after a good storm.

[Warren Beard]

quote Mike Grant:

Warren, be aware that the locator “female cups” only have a safe working life of 4 years before they should be replaced. I always keep a data base of jobs with locators and contact the customer when they are due for replacement. The cups go brittle with age/uv or you should use brass locators
I love it when customers say “My sign has been vandalised” when their letters drop off after a good storm.

Hi Mike

They are not stand off letters and am using big 25mm alluminium stand offs like these (these are smaller versions of the ones I will be using but you will understand)

[Peter Normington]

Warren,
drill a 2mm hole in a corner.
you will find out at least 3 things,
1/how thick the fascia is
2/a good indication of what its made of
3/ if there is a void behind it

you can then decide on the most suitable fixings.

that could be anything from self tapping screws, to butterfly fixings.

Peter

[Warren Beard]

Hi Peter

That’s the plan for today, holding thumbs it won’t be as bad as I imagine it to be 😕 :lol1:

cheers

Warren

[Neil Churchman]

quote Peter Normington:

Warren,
drill a 2mm hole in a corner.
you will find out at least 3 things,
1/how thick the fascia is
2/a good indication of what its made of
3/ if there is a void behind it

you can then decide on the most suitable fixings.

that could be anything from self tapping screws, to butterfly fixings.

Peter

Peter’s pretty much covered it – if you decide to drill a pilot hole,
you could try screwing in a self-tapping screw and tightening it up
to see how much grip you get before the material fails or the
screw/tread fails.
🙂

[Warren Beard]

Thanks for the help so far everyone

I went and had another look today but could not see any areas that showed edges or depth of the material. I drilled a small hole and it seems like some sort of plaster board but was very dense and not really powdery like normal plaster board. The drill bit had to do a bit of work to go through but it was hollow underneath it.

I will however be able to mount either the top or bottom strip of standoffs along the wooden frame below it so there should be enough strength to hold the whole thing up. The screws that fall on to the hollow areas behind the plaster board are my concern, will self tapping screws be sufficient or should I be using proper plaster board screws and anchors that open up behind the board to create a "T" shape lock behind?

Hope that makes sense, any advice would be appreciated.

many thanks

Warren

[Neil Churchman]

The paneling should be an exterior grade product anyway, and not actually plaster board, and from your description of the panel, I would use self taping screws (unless there is a particularly heavy load).

If you’re in any doubt, screw a fixing into the pilot hole with the self tapping screw and see how tight you can make it before the screw thread fails.

Ideally, the screw will tighten up nicely, and won’t break the thread that it’s cut into the material, in which case you’ll should have a satisfactory fixing. 🙂

[Warren Beard]

Thanks Neil

The sign is fairly heavy, it’s a 2200mm X 900mm piece of 8mm thick acrylic with 10 standoffs that also are heavier than I thought 😕

cheers

Warren

[David Rowland]

yes, you gone heavy again mate. Still to 3-5mm standoff letters and just flush mount a board to the plaster board as much as you can, coloured capped screws each with 1mtr spacing. Use foamex where possible to keep in light and simple.

[Neil Churchman]

Bear in mind that the weight of the panel will be split between the ten fixings, so each fixing only has to take the weight of 1/10th of the acrylic panel.

Have you considered when the acrylic expands and contracts? You may need to oversize the fixing holes to allow for this.

[Warren Beard]

quote Neil Churchman:

Bear in mind that the weight of the panel will be split between the ten fixings, so each fixing only has to take the weight of 1/10th of the acrylic panel.

Have you considered when the acrylic expands and contracts? You may need to oversize the fixing holes to allow for this.

Hi Neil

I am using the specs from the supplier of the standoffs to make the holes so I’m sure they will be OK.

and you are right about the weight so all should be super dooper….hopefully 😀

cheers

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

Hi Warren
If it is quite old, make sure it isn’t asbestos material.

Peter

[Neil Churchman]

Warren,

I’d be surprised if the supplier of the fixings has allowed for acrylic expansion in outdoor conditions when specifying hole sizes.

Perhaps someone else out there knows the correct expansion tolerances for acrylic and can advise you better.

We regularly use stand off fixing for glass panels and find that we always make the hole bigger than recommended because it gives us more margin for final adjustment during installation. 🙂

[Warren Beard]

quote Peter Mindham:

Hi Warren
If it is quite old, make sure it isn’t asbestos material.

Peter

How would I know if it’s asbestos? I’ve never seen it asbestos before so not sure what to look for. This material was thick (about 10mm) and seemed very dense to drill through.

Warren

[Neil Churchman]

Warren,

If you want to test for asbestos, I think there’s a government laboratory on the south coast where you can pay £20 for them to analyze a sample.
Contact details should be available from your local council office.

🙂

[Warren Beard]

quote Neil Churchman:

Warren,

I’d be surprised if the supplier of the fixings has allowed for acrylic expansion in outdoor conditions when specifying hole sizes.

Perhaps someone else out there knows the correct expansion tolerances for acrylic and can advise you better.

We regularly use stand off fixing for glass panels and find that we always make the hole bigger than recommended because it gives us more margin for final adjustment during installation. 🙂

Hi Neil

I just checked the fixings and they are 10mm wide and the hole recommendation is 12mm, that’s obviously 1mm all around for Clearance, would you consider that too small a gap or would it be OK. One would think they would allow for this if it is what they recommend but I suppose if you have used them before you know from experience.

what do you think?

cheers

Warren

[Neil Churchman]

Warren,

That’s not much tolerance 😕

If you can afford it within your costings, consider using Fairfield Display
for fixings, as they are a very well engineered product with good
tolerances between the stud size and head size.

http://www.fairfielddisplays.co.uk/prod … n+Supports

[Warren Beard]

Hi Neil

That’s who I got them from 😕 The support part that the acrylic will sit on is 10mm and in the catalog it says the hole width must be 12mm.

Should I give them a call and see if that is correct for outside installations?

cheers

Warren

[Neil Churchman]

Warren,

If you got Fairfield Display fixings that’s great!

In our experience, suppliers usually cover themselves by not specifying too bigger hole.

We use the 25mm diameter WM15 fixings and they specify a 12mm hole but we always use a 14mm hole, and having an over-sized hole has got me out of trouble on many occasions.

🙂

[Warren Beard]

Hi Neil

I have the same WM15 fixings, I will contact the supplier for the acrylic and see if it’s not too late for him to make the holes 14mm, otherwise I suppose I could just open them up myself with a drill.

cheers

Warren

[David Glen]

Warren, it’s difficult to tell in the photo but the building looks a bit 1960’s/70’s.
If the windows are ally coloured then probably the case.
In that period some cladding was done with asbestos based material.
If so, it will be brittle and very hard to drill.
Also, asbestos is very hard and a tap with the handle of a screwdriver would give a resounding solid sound.
Generally it would be 1/4" thick or less.
Either way if asbestos is suspected then don’t work with it.
If the building is newer then this will be the type of material Marley Eternit Pelicolour:
http://www.marleyeternit.co.uk/
http://www.marleyeternit.co.uk/Products … =Pelicolor

It is a concrete based board which drills very easily but will still appear dense. Drill dust will be sandy/grey.
10mm thick suggests this type of material.
It will not support fixings just with self tappers, you would have to use hollow anchors. This would mean measuring out the fixings first and doing a tiny pilot hole for each one to see if it’s clear behind. The cladding would need to have been securely fixed to the building in any event from new.
A common fixing for the panels is double sided tape, hence you can’t tell how it’s fixed. Possibly there will be battens behind the panel joints you could utilise to get a few decent fixings and the rest in hollow anchors.

[Warren Beard]

Thanks David

That’s a great help, I will take some hollow anchors along for the fixings that do not fall on the solid frame area.

Those look the business.

Thanks mate

Warren