what is the life span of chrome vinyl?

[Robert Lambie]

1,what life span is the chrome

normaly about 1-2 years. realisticaly 1 year on a vehicle.. if you do use it.. you get more out of the mirror vinyl if it is applied ontop of vinyl.
what i normaly do if i have to use it, is. put a small black ouline on the text. apply the word in two layers. first one solid black letter that will create the outline. then the mirror foil ontop.

2,How easy is it to mould contours (from vague memory its very thick??)

thickness i wouldnt say is the problem. its foil not actualy vinyl. it creases / kinks very easy. cant be stretched or manipulated. i would advise keeping to flat panels.

3,who supplies this..

various suppliers. Europoint Display, Autac & a good few others..

4,is it expensive

i guess it depends on the life you go for. i think you can get a 6 month life & a 2 year life. prices vary on life and supplier.
cost? not much more than regular vinyl i dont think.. 🙄

hope this helps 😉

[Mark Horley]

thanks for the quick reply robert
the stuff i’m remembering was a chrome vinyl with a clear plastic coating
it seems its moved on since this.

foil sounds interesting..how does it cut…is it anything like one way mirror for cars…I’ve had a few problems with that…

the outline is a good idea…I do this when we put reflective on vehicles..it makes it much easier to remove…I suppose foil would have the same
“splintering” (if its a word) properties as reflective
Would you cover in clear vinyl to increase life span…

[jon vital]

It cut’s ok but tears easily so be careful when weeding. Generally costs about £5 or £6 a metre.

[Jon Aston]

You might want to enquire about Gerber 210 Deluxe Silver, from Spandex (also avail in gold, BTW).

5 year outdoor durability, EDGE Ready…you will pay quite a bit more for the product than you would less durable films, however.

[Robert Lambie]

5 years actualy sounds good jon..
cost is always an issue of course, but when nobody else is offering the same life.. why not be much more exspensive?

im in the position and frame of mind to always question prices. thats business after all.. but when yuo narrow the market by giving a higher grade of vinyl or a longer life…. then why not?
we would too if offering a better sign than all others….

saying that.. we are talking the chrome effect life, rather than the adhesion?
adhesion of foil on vinyl “on a flat surface” has never been a problem for me.. not really anyway.. its more the foil flaking or discolouring…. 🙄

are we talking tha same thing here regarding life? 🙄

[Lee Attewell]

I did some mobile bathrooms YES mobile Bathrooms with the chrome polyester. It says to expect a 1-2 year outdoor life span. So I finished the signs with anti graffiti vinyl to protect from scratching. The chrome conformed well one way, but I’d be careful where I applied it.

Lee

[Mark Horley]

yeah what im thinking of doing (after everyones grateful input)…is black outline, foil, then clear protector…sandwich the foil…

thank for you help….

[Robert Lambie]

what your thinking on doing would certainly work mate..
will take a bit more time and cost nearly 3 times the amount. but if they want it to stay as it is now in a few years then thats the price they will have to pay. 😉

good point on the reflective.. i too used that process for reflective.

i moved on to start using “luckylite refflective” more exspensive but excellent to work with. its seems to be a foil with polyester coating.. almost impossible to rip and applies and strips easily…

europoint now do a new version of “NIKOLITE” like luckylite, it has a polyester coating. has a great shine to it…
it easily strips when heat is applied.. leaves a little glue but not the stubburn type.. just rolls into balls and comes away..
best part is it still only cost the same as the regular reflectives… 😉

[Jon Aston]

Robert:

Both adhesion and chrome effect of the Gerber/3M 210 Deluxe Silver last 5 years outdoors (210 Gold lasts 3 years). The product is suitable for flat and flat-with-rivets applications. Durability and the wide range of suitable applications is due to its vinyl construction — as opposed to the mirrorized polyester most people are familiar with.

Here’s a bit of product data for anyone interested:
http://gspinc.com/support/fastfacts/ShowFF.asp?ff=5542

I don’t know if Ford goes for the same “look” in the UK as here…but several years ago, the “pylon” signage at all Ford dealerships was updated. Picture a tall pole, with the word “Ford” in chrome, in a chrome-bordered blue oval…very sharp looking representation of the Ford “badge”…all done with 3M’s version of 210 Deluxe Silver (which Ford specified for the job).

Maybe there’s an opportunity for someone such as yourself to “point” to Ford’s satisfaction with their signage in Canada…and propose converting all of their signage in the UK…you never know!

[Robert Lambie]

Hi Jon
Interesting read. I have never heard of an actual mirror/vinyl. Always foils/polyester films. I only glanced over the spec, but it does say like you stated the life of the product. Which can only be good. At least better than any I have heard of. 🙂

I’m sure from their spec they have covered themselves legally for any unexpected errors that may come to light. But all in, it all sounds convincing enough.

How much would something like this come in at per metre, by say 1270 wide?
Just being nosey for my own reference. I’ve never known anything from Spandex or 3M to be at low cost.
I was going to say cheap! But, I we are not talking a cheap grade vinyl so that wouldn’t be fair… we only get what we pay for at the end of the day.. Even if sometimes we pay higher than I think we should in comparison.. 😕

Do you know of any sites with pictures of the Ford work? I’m interested in how it looks. I would have thought a mirror Perspex or a chrome metal would have been the choice before a vinyl. But hey! If ford go for it.. It must be worth trying! 😛

Thanks for the heads up on it and for the link mate
😉 😛

[Jon Aston]

Rob:

My pricing on the stuff will be more-or-less irrelevant to you…different market, different factors affecting market pricing in different ways (ie. freight to Toronto from Conneticut vs freight to Bristol).

Give my colleagues at Spandex a call to enquire. The price of this material is likely going to floor you…but for the right application / right end-user it is a valuable solution. Once someone like Ford decides that the material fits with their concept, price becomes somewhat less relevant.

Here’s a bit more on the Ford of Canada signage…the picture in my mind’s eye and the reality are somewhat different. Blame Bombay Sapphire (great stuff — do you have it over there?).

http://www.3m.com/intl/ca/english/centres/graphicarts/ford.html

[Darryl Seager]

brilliant stuff that Bombay Sapphire!!

[Robert Lambie]

quote :

The price of this material is likely going to floor you…but for the right application / right end-user it is a valuable solution. Once someone like Ford decides that the material fits with their concept, price becomes somewhat less relevant.

I quite agree with you Jon..

We have a customer at present that specifies a 3M range of reflective for all their signage & vehicles.
Aprrox £5000 for a 50metre roll..
So if I call, and Spandex UK still manage to floor me with the price, then they can keep their pot-a-gold! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Joking aside.. I was very impressed by the ford signage shown. But couldn’t help but disagree on using the vinyl for that type of application.
Ok, i am probably missing the real reason for them using the vinyl as opposed to a polished metal or stainless steel, moulded acrylic etc..
But why fabricate those outer circles “and then” cover them in vinyl?
Yes, the vinyl is an improved type of mirror, but still only has a max life of 5 years.. I would have thought something with a “guaranteed” much longer life, would have been used for a project of this size.

Was the signage a short term project Jon? When I say short term, meaning something like 2 years or so..
I am not knocking the vinyl in anyway here.. Just wondering why they decided to use a vinyl for this type, shape, size etc of signage. 🙄

[Jon Aston]

I wasn’t at all involved with the project, Robert…just aware of it…so I’m afraid I cannot answer your questions about why ford chose to go the way that they did.

I’ll drop a colleague of mine at 3M a note to see if he can shed any light on the subject…

[WP_Graphics]

I’ve just called spandex and the 7 year chrome is priced at £89+VAT/meter 😮 drops down to £59/meter if you buy 10 meter… 😛

Gav

[Jon Aston]

We also charge a premium for short lengths…to cover cost of labour and inventory “shrinkage”.

I’m curious to know the Spandex UK price per metre at 10m and 50m, if anyone knows.

[Henry Barker]

As Mike said on his demo using regular Chrome polyester looks great and if you tell the customer it might need touching up after a year or so its probably worthwhile, you can buy alot of Avery polyester for £89!

Here’s a job we did before last winter using the Edge as well, its still holding up well considering how often trucks get washed up here, and the amount of salt that is used.

and another shot

[Brian Hays]

Blimey! It’s not often you see go faster stripes on a tipper truck!! 😆

[Jon Aston]

Nice job, Henry!!

But I will have to disagree with you…replacing graphics every year or so (assuming that you ARE charging for your time) doesn’t do your customer any favours.

Robert:

The 3M Rep who was involved with this project is on holiday ’til next week…so I won’t be able to offer any answers to your questions for a wee while.

[lukebremner]

Nice job henry, I have been told about a chrome paint you can get for airbrushing comonly used on racing helmets, I dont now any more about it but I would think say you 2pack clear it, it should last some years. Just wondering can you print on to chrome polyester?. (-)

[Robert Lambie]

yep you can print onto chrome polyester very well…
we did some BMW badges for a company a few weeks ago.. looked great.. we use it pretty often..

thermal printing that is…

[Robert Lambie]

thanks very much for trying jon.. no rush mate… i was just being nosey.. 😉

below is a picture i took this evening on my way home from work.
i did this about 5-6 years ago now…

i used brown perspex for the backing. then i contour cut the the word sharelles by jigsaw out of the same colour of perspex. i raised this section on locator studs.
the raised section had a solid panel of white laid down first. this was to create the white outline for the gold, once applied. it was also to create the vinyl backing to give better adhesion to the mirror vinyl.
i cant remember exactly who i bought the mirror from. but i would imagine it to be amari/mactac as i used them for almost everything for a great number of years.
once the white was applied. we then applied the GOLD mirror film.

the sign is still in perfect condition today as you can see, but as you can see the gold has lost the yellow/gold effect a bit… but still holds the mirror finish very well indeed.

when i did this job i told them the mirror may need changing every 2 years.. they didnt mind, as this was the effect they wanted and already paid extra for the brown perspex.
glad to say.. i have never been asked to return to replace the mirror text…

all this praise for the vinyl? just remember the sign doesnt get washed every other day like a van does. or exposed to the thrashing they take on the road everyday…. 😉

---

Attachments:

[Robert Lambie]

oops… almost forgot while posting my picture,..
great truck graphics henry… shame about the life on them..
ide expect most vinyls or polyester films to take a pounding anyway on that kinda vehicle..

thanks for sharing mate 😉

[John Singh]

There you go Rob

Just when I was losing all confidence in using mirror vinyl you show us work like that. Brilliant! Still looks fantastic.

Have used mirror vinyl but found it tempermental on the plotter, easily tears, hard to weed and a hell of a job trying to get it to stick.

Lesson learnt today:
First apply an ordinary vinyl, then the mirror. Customers happy cos he gets an outline thrown in. You’re happy cos its going to stick and stay there longer.

john

[Henry Barker]

Great looking sign Rob 🙂

The guy who’s tiper truck I did knows that it will need redoing after a year or so and is prepared for that, its not much work on that particular job.

Another little twist would be to do something like this below, I have done this a few times now, I made what I thought was a much more lively logo but she went for this, its a hairdresser. Its made using polished stainless steel, and Avery 800PF black

[Ed Solheim]

R-Tape got a range of chrome and brushed vinyls with 5 year outdoor durability. They got engine-turn pattern aswell..

We bought some a few weeks ago thru their Norwegian distributor and payed around £10 a metre a 37.5cm sprocketed rolls for Edge printing.

[Mike Brown]

Henry – the truck is fabulous!…

…and replacing polyester chrome every year or two would be fine – that’s if and when it’s even necessary. I too (like Rob) have used this stuff outside and, especially where it’s applied over other vinyl, it lasts for years…

nice work! 😉

more soon

mikethesign