what do you think eastern imports/alibaba are like?

[MartinDenton]

Micheal

as my grandmother used to say "there is no such thing as a free lunch" "you get what you pay for etc".

Nobody can sell a US40k machine for less than 1k and make a profit,

We have a Roland 545 and my guess is they cost substantially more to manufacture. somewhere there is a scam either not the genuine article or 20k of shipping charges or something.

lastly the customs issue is very real unless you can persuade them it is a sample, not very easy unless you are a distributor

Walk away mate

[Peter Normington]

Micheal,
the first thing I think of when alibaba is mentioned is his 40 theives!

I could not find the deal you mentioned, could you post a link to the item rather than just the main site?. I did a search without results so maybe its been withdrawn,

Anyway DO NOT part with any money to a foreign company you do not know. If you can satisfy youself that the offer is genuine, pay only by letter of credit, any genuine company will allow this.

Also check with Roland if they can verify the supplier and would they honour the warranty in your country?

As concerning custom charges, If you ask them I’m sure they will send you the details of any taxes payable to inport from particular countries, and dont forget, the vat is on top of that and any other related charges.

Peter

[Sign Age]

Hi Micheal,

Just thought that it is good for you to know that the alibaba website is a distributor search engine that host many other Chinese business products. It is not a company specific site but rather a product distribution site.

So the products that you see there are from many other different Chinese companies and some will be honest and some just out to make a quick buck.

It is highly unlikely that Roland Sp will go for such a price as even their worst local made solvent printer cost more than that..

regards

jeff

[Shane Drew]

quote Sign Age:

Hi Micheal,

Just thought that it is good for you to know that the alibaba website is a distributor search engine that host many other Chinese business products. It is not a company specific site but rather a product distribution site.

So the products that you see there are from many other different Chinese companies and some will be honest and some just out to make a quick buck.

It is highly unlikely that Roland Sp will go for such a price as even their worst local made solvent printer cost more than that..

regards

jeff

Good advice Jeff.

The old saying…. ‘if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is….’ seems to ring true here, dont you think?

[David Rowland]

i remember Rodney and myself looking over those laser cutters from there, it is tempting i must admit.

I have studied the entire site yet, but I used to impact from a manufacturer from china, all went fairly smoothly but I did know that the product existed and it was made by a company who I spoke to a fair bit.

[Les Woods]

Martin is correct – even though the actual machine may be sold at a certain price, the customs will value it on market value if its new and you could get wholloped with a hefty invoice at the end of it. Also, it could be a damaged or imitation version.

I was going to buy a load of compatible ink for our Canon (for short-life jobs) as the price compared to Canons own inks were really good but they wanted paying via Western Union and not BACs, bank wire or cheque so I didn’t go any further with it.

Peter’s right about the 40 thieves, there are probably many good, honest people there but when they’re hundreds of miles away its a big gamble to take!

[Micheal Donnellan]

40 thieves I know I heard the name before just did not place it.
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11556980 … nter_.html this is the link to the printer in question.
Customs is the biggest worry as they tend to do things their own way with regards to valuing stuff. Other worries is the shipping is done "hongkong style" cheap price & huge shipping, Machine is klapped out and being sold as new or reconditioned being sold as new. Imitation version don’t really care about just as long as it does work.

Of course if it was genuine I would buy the two and then probably sell both by right. Then use the cash to pay for a small printer here with support which would make life easier long term.

Lasers are very cool but with a price to melt your wallet. Always has a interest in them, just the price is scary even though I know I have a market here.

[David Rowland]

They also sell the PC-600 for more money.. hmm. strange

[Les Woods]

This is in the small print at the bottom of the page (40% black just to make it (un)easy to see):

quote :

This member’s information has NOT been authenticated or verified by Alibaba or any third party. Only Alibaba Gold Suppliers and TrustPass members have completed an Authentication and Verification procedure conducted by third-party credit-reporting agencies.

[Peter Normington]

Just looked at the link Micheal, At that price there must be a catch. They seem to have missed at least 0ne nine from the price!
dont even bother to enquire further, I wouldnt.

Peter

[Harry Cleary]

I emailed these people for the fun and this is what I got back, note the guys name!!! 40ft and barge pole come to mind 😀 😀 😀 Subject:

Re:Re: Roland Versacamm Sp-540v Printer
From: Mr anthony l lie
Date: Wed, Sep 20 2006 06:43:51 -0700
Print this message Delete
Dear Mr Harry Cleary

Thakns for your atentions

The price for 1 unit Roland Versacamm Sp-540v USD 995
And shipping charges and tax to Ireland USD 105
Totals price including shipping cost and Tax USD 1100.

Let me know how many unit that you want to order and please let me know the complete shipping address.

I look forwd to hear from you soon

Regards

[Les Woods]

:rofl: Can they seriously expect you to do business with some called ‘I lie’? Somehow I think thats one salesman who will never hit his sales targets.

[Harry Cleary]

😀 😀 and I’d like to see the ship that will take it to Ireland for 106 dollars!!

[Micheal Donnellan]

quote :

Subject: Re:Re:Roland Versacamm Sp-540v Printer
From: Mr anthony l lie
Date: Wed, Sep 20 2006 07:01:12 -0700
Print this message Delete
Dear Mr Michael Donnellan

Thanks for your e-mail

I have Best price for 1 unit Roland Versacamm Sp-540v.
Price 1 unit USD 965
So price 2 unit USD 1930
Shipping cost and Tax for 2 unit to Ireland USD 120
Totals price and shipping cost and Tax USD 2050.

Can i know your compleate shipping address in Ireland

I look forwad to hear from you soon

Regards
Print this message Delete

Sender’s Name Card

Name: Mr anthony l lie Leave me a message
Company: Pt. Digitalsprinter. Co. Ltd
Address: Sm. Raja. No.12
Country: Indonesia
Phone: 62-61-30213836
Fax: 62-61-30216644

This is what I got got back from him there are price differences from you harry. Not to mention it just looks too cheap. A packed printer on another site is 400lb each. The name is noted, time for more emails I think, find out what he is up to.

[Les Woods]

Mmm, in my opinion you should not allow the supplier to arrange delivery in this instance – all you need is weight & dimensions and get a price from TNT, City Link or other couriers to bring it into the country. If they insist on using their own delivery service then you know it’ll be loaded (the delivery price) by the time you get the goods (if you do…).

[David Rowland]

does the machine come with any print heads? 😛

[Rodney Gold]

How do you possibly expect to get that machine at that price , the heads are epson Dx3 heads and they alone cost about the price of the whole machine. This is obviously a scam

The lasers from China are real and they are quite cheap , but you get what you pay for – glasss tubes with lousy beam quality , constant alignment issues and the chiller cooling system is an aquarium pump , poor quality stepper motors etc.

When I started asking a few pertinent questions about the machines , we never got a reply
Subsequently I was contacted by an agent that imports em here , but even he is a total rip off , FOB price of a laser from mnfgr at $4k (around R32 000) and he is selling at R130 000 , like 300+% profit
I do know ppl that have bought stuff like cmputerised overhead routers from the same co that does mnfgr the lasers and are happy.

[Nick Minall]

quote Dave Rowland:

does the machine come with any print heads? 😛

Does the machine come?

[Micheal Donnellan]

Sent another message asking some questions to him. Now we see what happens. If this thing works out, then great another company people can deal with. If it just turns out to be another scam then people will at least know that and have leaned something from this tread. Hopefully without laughing at the broke Irish guy.

[Les Woods]

It is a full size, working model isn’t it – not a realistic 1:100 airfreshner…? 😉

[Peter Normington]

quote Micheal Donnellan:

Sent another message asking some questions to him. Now we see what happens. If this thing works out, then great another company people can deal with. If it just turns out to be another scam then people will at least know that and have leaned something from this tread. Hopefully without laughing at the broke Irish guy.

Micheal we only laugh with people on this site. never at them (even if they are broke)

You are right to bring this sort of thing up, at least it warns others.

Peter

[Richard Urquhart]

i agree with looking in to this but i think we all know this will never turn up

its not even a realistic price !!!

if you do get this at the above price i will eat my pants !!! live on uksignboards

happy days rich 😀 😀

[Micheal Donnellan]

If it did show up we will expect you to post a video of you eating your pants as stated. Just one question au natural or deep fried? 😀 😀 😀

[Richard Urquhart]

any how ya like

this will not come off

and no getting one from a uk dealer and saying it came off after paying the right money
just to watch the video

rich 😉

[Brian Hays]

Richard’s pants are safe. There is not a hope in hell it’s legit. As Rodney has pointed out the heads alone would cost more than they are quting for the machine.

[alan flynn]

you might get two machines, but they would printed printers, which you could hang up on your wall and look at your bargain,
sorry i would not go there,
regards
alan flynn

[David Rowland]

tempting for each of us to put a tenner or so towards it… we buy it as a group then stick it on ebay and get tenner back!

only kiddin

[Micheal Donnellan]

quote :

Re:Re:Roland Versacamm Sp-540v Printer
From: Mr anthony l lie
Date: Wed, Sep 20 2006 12:33:33 -0700
Print this message Delete
Dear Mr michael donnellan

Payment Term :
-Moneygram
-Telegraphic Transfer
-Western union.

I ship By FedEx Via Airtranspot.

Do you have e-mail.
is here to small to give to you Full specification and Dimentions.

Regards

The signs of a scam are showing nicely with the unrelible payment methods and unreal fedex rates. Have replied I dont like his payment methods and I want shipping weigh and dims. Has he a clue what he is talking about.

[Nigel Pugh]

Just put the company name shown as a search on Google and see how many links go back to Alibaba, this company offers a Pinnacle Laser amongst many other items, American re-brand of our own LaserPro Mercury, and he asks for just over 3,000 usd.

I think if he can sell them at that price then I need to look for another job

[Micheal Donnellan]

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11549096 … eries.html
its not the printerdigital guy

have nor seen laser for sale from him yet. can you post link or is alibaba company you on about.

[Nigel Pugh]

Michael when I’m back at work tomorrow I will look again and re-check but there did seem to be a very long line of products all tracing back to a company in Indonesia

[Sign Age]

Hi all,

I have asked my Indonesian friend to check out the guy. He told me that it is indeed a scam as he just bought the same machine at 40grand from a distributor. He has also tried calling the phone number listed on the site, but it seems to be answered from a house.

regards,

Jeff

[Jim Clough]

I have a much better deal, I’m selling the Eifell Tower but hurry it’s on a first come first served basis as I’ve only got 3 left.

Jim

[John Wilson]

I’ve used the alibaba site before with mixed results

I put £6k into someones account on there for goods and had them delivered…… almost a week late but still got them

A few months later my mate done the same and wasn’t as successful as myself 😥 dare say he was not a happy chappy

But I was a happy chappy :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

[Micheal Donnellan]

Did the guy you dealt with have the trust pass membership or was he on normal membership (the 40% black your screw text as above).

[Marekdlux]

quote Sign Age:

Hi all,

I have asked my Indonesian friend to check out the guy. He told me that it is indeed a scam as he just bought the same machine at 40grand from a distributor. He has also tried calling the phone number listed on the site, but it seems to be answered from a house.

regards,

Jeff

That was nice of you to do that.
-Marek

[John Singh]

Jeff:

quote :

I have asked my Indonesian friend to check out the guy. He told me that it is indeed a scam as he just bought the same machine at 40grand from a distributor. He has also tried calling the phone number listed on the site, but it seems to be answered from a house.

Thanks Jeff
Appreciate your efforts 😀

[Vivienne Hennessy]

hey i think this must be an irish thing i actually have corresponded with Mr I Lie too and have a contact in indonesia checking him out but i reckon its a scam too as i rang DHL and they quoted unreal money for shipping cant remember the exact amount. i have asked him repeatedly for authenticaton of his business which he cant give i was emailing him for about 2 weeks then when he saw it was a problem with verification of his business he said i could pay half the money now and half when i recieved the goods. i dunno theres something very dodgy. Also i have talked to some other people and they say that maybe it is a replica machine so to speak branded with roland badges but different parts inside in it that wont last a week and you will never be able get parts again. Also another contact of mine says Roland Irl will not give you service for a machine if bought in another country. How true this is i dunno?.

Just another few thoughts to ponder. At the moment im just watchin english and irish ebay and maybe spot a bargain at least you can talk to that person and unfortunately for most of us the price of this machine is very high for a startup cost and second hand is our only option but better hold on to your money i think.

[Micheal Donnellan]

Have had no reply from him, not that I expected one. Who knows maybe he read up here about himself. 😀

I am currently figuring its less hassle and cheaper just to get my stuff printed by some one else than to go messing about with owning a printer. At least until it becomes worth it to buy one of the more expensive ones (with support). Then ill annoy you all with "whys my printer not working" questions.

Right now my interest has back gone to lasers. Right now I have quotes ranging from US$4,000 to US$30,000 for 60w units. I know 60w is basically a toy as far as lasers go, but given my limited budget and the fact I do steel stuff rarely I might go for the US$4,000 Guangzhou special. Its basic, uses crappy (I’m told) stepper motors and has short tube life but if it does what its supposed to do and don’t set itself on fire I will be happy. The company also has good rating on http://www.alibada.com. I am also looking into leasing a machine as well from closer companies, they still yet have to get back to me.

Rodney
What company were you talking to? want to know in case I end up talking to them.

[Rodney Gold]

Its the same co that advertsing all the lasers , Rabbit or something like that.
60w is plenty for Co2 lasers as engravwers , but power is not the determinant of whether a laser is good or not, these are "flaky" machines at best and the determining factor of what brand to buy is the support you get …….in the case of these lasers its ZILCH!!!
You wont be able to do steel at ALL with 60w , or 80w or 100w , you gonna need high quality tubes and least 200-500W of GOOD co2 power and even then , you aint gonna cut any really thick metal at all , maybe 2mm steel?
Im pretty experienced with lasers , we run 6 in our shop and as attractive as the chinese machine was in price , poawer and bed size , I chose to pass as i dont beleive it is at all capable of precise repeatable production and based on the manuals , pictures and software I saw , looks to me like BIG TROUBLE!!
We do use lasers made in China , but they are similar in cost and construction to "western" brands are are better in some respects , GCC units (called Laserpro in the USA)
You would expect to pay at least US$20k for a decent 700mmx 480mm laser with a decent (synrad or Coherent DEOS) souce in the 30W bracket.
The mnfgr of the $4k chinese units stopped responding to my mails when my questions on the machine got specific bad sign very bad.

[David Rowland]

I am digging up this post again, I have read in other forums that Rabbit and other Chinese laser’s are not as bad and can cope with a production run, however the lasers seem to be short tube life of about a 1000-1500 hours but can be replaced as a consumable, we could be looking at £150 to replace them. The other thing is its quality as Rodney is suggesting in his post, can these machine cope on the weaker design builds? Prices on the Chinese one’s are very attractive, although I am a new comer to the laser principle, I am learning fast but I keep thinking about these things:-

1: Chinese products are normally a bit cut down then the western competition, like plotters competing against Summa etc. So will the laser be the same?

2: Does anyone in the UK have a chinese laser? I would like to hear from you to see how you are getting on.

[Rodney Gold]

They seem to work for some , there is feedback on both http://www.worldofengraving.com and http://www.sawmillcreek.org (laser section)
I do very intricate engraving and from what I have read , this seems a little problematic as does the software.

I would say this , that in all probability cutting materials is no problem and for this alone , the machines would be worthwhile.
I would imagine they would be suitable for engraving barring extremely fine detailed stuff?

The overall consensus is that if you are technically inclined and are prepared to fiddle and deal with chinese support , the machines are ok.
What would bother me is the stability of the tubes power , I have read that the tubes continually decrease in power over their lifetime and this would make consistent cutting a little problematic. In terms of the motion system , well nothing major can go wrong , but if I were importing I would get a stock of motors , belts , pulleys and bearings.

[Peter Mindham]

These guys were listing kit on THAT site earlier this year. All obviously fake listings. Managed to get one removed by hassling the vendor daily 😀

Stay away I think

Peter

[David Rowland]

thanks rodney….

peter… its not that above, just following up on this thread… i am still looking for ‘someone’ in ‘any’ trade that is actually using a cheap far east laser in this country. where r they?

the ones i am looking at seem very genunine and have alibaba trustpass. Also peter, you must drop by mate, have a look at the cnc table we got.

[Marcella Ross]

Hi Dave,
interesting you’ve resurrected this thread. As you know John has been researching Chinese suppliers for both printers and lasers. Same as anywhere …………. you need to know what you’re looking for. As for Rabbit lasers ………….. lots of positive feedback from people who have and using them on other engraving forums. (Unlike their plotters)
They may not be built to US / European standards ‘yet’ but they are substantially cheaper and, I believe, worth the risk.

[Jason Xuereb]

Hey guys,

I can contribute to this thread. China has alot of quality products and they have alot of shoddy stuff. You get what you pay for. You pay peanuts and you get monkies. Paying for good stuff is cheaper then what you would get locally but it isn’t cheap.

I went to China last year and went to one of their biggest trade fairs. Alot of people at these fairs have good products. But its also pretty evident that even the shoddy operators attend these events.

If your going to be making savings of over 2k usd I would use some of those savings to fly over there and visit the factories. By visiting the factories where the goods are manufactured gives you a good indication of quality.

In China I’ve been to some called factories that operate in multiple garages at the bottom of apartment buildings. Then other’s that are properlly setup.

Also the other problem you guys face that one printer or one of any item usually is too small an order. The bigger companies who have quality sell by the container load. They won’t service you for just one item unless its the size of a container.

If you want one printer etc you will need someone on the group over there who will source it for you and then organise shipping etc.

I have a friend who brings in sofas that get made in China to his specifications. One order got sent in the wrong colour leather one his never even used before but the sofa was his design. This stuff happens so be prepared to take a hit.

Cheers
Jason

[David Rowland]

Thank you Jason

There seems to be quite a few companies making these things, all very similar between them, also some companies who make incredible sized machines for other markets.

I am still looking for someone whos got one over here… is there sign makers at all?

[Nick Cliffe]

Hi guys,

I have just come across this thread and can offer some advice, based on the experience of one of our clients and ourselves. Our client, a well-known mainstream UK University bought a cheapish laser from China a couple of years back and the main problems they had were:

Badly translated help documentation (Chinglish!).

Very short tube life.

Difficult to get help from the suppliers.

Basically you get what you pay for and although the labour costs and economies of scale make buying from so far away quite appealing, the downside is that from then on, you are very much on your own!

I learned from their advice and, like they did bought a Trotec from Dean Carpenter at Laserite (www.laserite.co.uk). It was justifiably expensive but he arranged all installation of extraction system, delivery and installation, PC server loaded and set up with all the software, plus training. He’s always available on the other end of the phone or email and has helped me every time I’ve needed any expertise. Trotec are reputed to be amongst the best lasers made anywhere and are absolute ‘workhorses’ so I feel it’s money well spent! I can be busy producing instead of solving endless problems.

HTH<

Nick

[Micheal Donnellan]

Hello guys

Currently after a laser from china so far most about USD$6,000 total that’s with spare tube and parts as just know something will mess up. Also getting rotary attachment and motorized table and better chiller unit not a dammed aquarium pump!

cliffeco: what was the name of the Chinese supplier your friend got his laser from. Am in contact with about 4 of them so want to find information on them as I can.

[Nick Cliffe]

Hi Micheal,

I would have had a lot more leisure time if I’d been sensible and worked for a university. They come back for the autumn term in a week or two, so as soon as my friend is back in the UK I’ll give him a bell and ask if he still has the contact details.

Do you speak Chinglish?

[Peter Normington]

Micheal, you started this thread a year ago, have you made a purchase yet? and have you researched any more? which companies are you negotiating with?

Peter

[Nick Cliffe]

And have you looked at the new batch of ex-demo lasers in the UKSB shop?

[Micheal Donnellan]

12W to 40W
Bit small and expensive for my limited budget, which is why I am messing with Chinese lasers. I know about the quality of chinese stuff has a cap blow on cutter requiring replacement. replacement not in good physical condition but it works. So I am after replacements as well when I buy the laser. Spare tube ordered in the hope one will survive the trip. Not realy sure about paying for direct to door delivery by air as dammed expensive but better than messing with forwarders.
mostly dealing with
Wklasers (supposed to be good)
Jinan G.weike Science&Technology Co.,Ltd
Wuhan ZhongTai Digital Optoelectronic Equipment Co., Ltd (recommended to me)
but also
Jinan Jindiao Technology Co.,Ltd

—–
if had lots of money would get a zund machine

[Hugh Potter]

HI Michael,

please don’t take this the wrong way, but do you have a ‘market’ for these goods you intend to make ? or is this to be a purchase based on likely sales to a certain market you have in mind ?

a printer, i think, is a different matter, no matter how big or small a signmaker, we could use one to good effect, and make regular sales, where-as an engraver is a fairly specific piece of kit, sure you make your own ‘cut letters’ from various materials, but for ti to be financially beneficial, you’d surely need a large machine, high quality, and high wattage, to cover all requests you may get, or you’ll be back to square 1, and buying stuff in that you could have done with the right machine.

i’m not in a much different position to you, i’m small, rarely consistently busy, home workshop based, and have limited funds when it comes to buying tools and equipment.

we all want to try and save money, but surely in the long run, it would be better to buy the best. that’s the way i work, i can’t afford to splash out on a cutter/printer, and that’s why i don’t have one. i know the old saying of ‘speculate to accumulate’, but if i don’t have the work there, guaranteed, to cover the machine, or a good proportion of it, then it gets subbed out. sure it costs a bit more, but it’s hassle free ! i’m not prepared to take out loans at this stage, as i work, for the most part, hand to mouth, what i make wil either go into more materials, or essentials to live !

i’d have a real think, a serious one, based upon all the info you have in this thread, and consider if you want to run the risk of buying a machine which A, might not be all you expect it to be, B, not as reliable as you hoped, and c, worst of all, a big investment which is making no return due to a narrow market, or downtime, i know you mention getting a spare tube, i know nowt about lasers, but is this a simple process ? i’m a service engineer by trade, well, i was, and have come across cheaper chinese machines, none of which were easy to obtain parts for, and generally the bits inside were not really built for the job. aside from that, I’ve had some real nightmares trying to get an ‘unfamiliar’ machine back together again. something worth considering.

anyways, hope you don’t think i’m being defeatist here, just offering you y own humble opinion, best of luck wherever you go from here.

Hugh

[pilot]

Hi Hugh,

I absolutely agree whit every word you wrote.