what blades shoud i buy genuine graphtec or Edward Mathis?

[Gareth.Lewis]

Harry’s idiot proof blades for me!

[Chris Wool]

£2 each off you know where

[Peter Dee]

Buy from the guy who knows what he’s on about.

You really can not go wrong with Harry.

[Robert Lambie]

call dave standedn at printone, new blades… cheaper than mathias and none of the posting back the old blades to be renewed etc been using them for years now after switching from mathias.

[John Thomson]

I bought blades recently from Hong Kong…….5 X Roland were £8.00 and 5 X Mimaki were £13.00 plus £2.00 shipping……….arrived quickly, I had a tracking number to follow their progress and got to choose 30,45 or 60 degree blades………I’m happy with that 😀

John

[Peter Normington]

from my experience, go original every time.
I have tried them all, but none last anywhere near as long as originals.

Peter

[John Thomson]

quote Peter Normington:

from my experience, go original every time.
I have tried them all, but none last anywhere near as long as originals.

Peter

I would suggest that the cutter manufacturers do not manufacture the blades themselves…….just the same as they buy in the plotter chassis , stands, fans, main boards, wiring looms etc then assemble the parts.

Same things with printers…..Mimaki, Roland etc use Epson printheads, industry standard chassis and take up reels……….most plotter/printer ‘manufacurers’ are actually companies who buy in the necessary parts to their own specification then assemble them………same with PC’s.

john

[Peter Normington]

John, the difference is, original parts are made to the manufacturers specification, and pattern parts are just copies, and can vary a great deal in quality.

I have tried cheaper non originals, non have lasted anywhere near to what the originals have.

Its like buying a Mercedes part for your car, or a cheap alternative, I would suggest the Mercedes part will last longer, even though it may not be made by Mercedes, it will be to their specification.

so I will stick with originals thanks, just my personal choice

Peter

[Kevin Flowers]

I have used Edward Mathias blades for years also purchased my printer & cutters from him. From what i know he supplies some of the cutter manufacturers and he doesn’t just supply smart knives he supplies standard blades as well.

Kev

[John Cooper]

Volvo + Volvo = Volvo

[Robert Lambie]

do you mean you cant get an equal quality of a product under a different brand peter? i agree most budget alternatives are naff and a waste of time, but the pritnone ones are badged as Renown and that is a pretty reputable brand in its own. i always used original, then switched to mathias for a year or so… then switched to printone. never had any problems and neither the originals or mathias did any better a job than renown. if it did i would switch back as i believe in you get what you pay for.

[Peter Normington]

quote Robert Lambie:

do you mean you cant get an equal quality of a product under a different brand peter? i agree most budget alternatives are naff and a waste of time, but the pritnone ones are badged as Renown and that is a pretty reputable brand in its own. i always used original, then switched to mathias for a year or so… then switched to printone. never had any problems and neither the originals or mathias did any better a job than renown. if it did i would switch back as i believe in you get what you pay for.

Rob, I mean originals last longer, but buy what you feel best with, this discusion, is actually a no brainer, the cost of a blade, is really peanuts, in the scheme of things. One blade can produce at least £20,000 worth of cut vinyl, saving ten or twenty quid on a cut price blade is hardly an issue.

the time to adjust and change pattern blades alone, probably cost more than the saving, again just my opinion

Peter

[Ade Brown]

Hi All,

great little debate going on!!

I had forgotten about printone there only 5 mile down the road from me too!!
bought bits and bats off them before..

only thing is different opinions so now my mind is blown!!

[Ian Bingham]

quote Peter Normington:

quote Robert Lambie:

do you mean you cant get an equal quality of a product under a different brand peter? i agree most budget alternatives are naff and a waste of time, but the pritnone ones are badged as Renown and that is a pretty reputable brand in its own. i always used original, then switched to mathias for a year or so… then switched to printone. never had any problems and neither the originals or mathias did any better a job than renown. if it did i would switch back as i believe in you get what you pay for.

Rob, I mean originals last longer, but buy what you feel best with, this discusion, is actually a no brainer, the cost of a blade, is really peanuts, in the scheme of things. One blade can produce at least £20,000 worth of cut vinyl, saving ten or twenty quid on a cut price blade is hardly an issue.

the time to adjust and change pattern blades alone, probably cost more than the saving, again just my opinion

Peter

Hate to say it Peter but have to agree with you, I always use roland blades for the reason that they work for me, not cost, yes Ive tried Harries and they didnt last any where as long

Ian

[Robert Lambie]

peter, as i said mate… i believe in "you pay for what you get".
however, when i juggled suppliers it was about 8 years ago… you couldn’t buy a single blade. it was 5 pack at a time… a pack was about £150 from memory and that was for my roland cutters. we had graphtec too so you were roughly the same twice. £300 o blades alone isnt pennies. if a blade is used properly it will last as long as its reputable. ian, i used Rolands for years too, still do, we have always had roland and graphtec machines… a good blade is only going to last if the person using it does so right. i.e. clean/oil the mechanism holding the blade. handle the blade correctly. dont touch the tip… dont use the same blade for cutting reflective vinyl as you do regular vinyl. dont drop the blade… replace the nylon cutting strip premature to heavy damage and so on and so on…

i did actually have a short lived blade from mathias, but i simply put that down to the new guy we had running that cutter.

peter i agree with you on the cost "these days" for blades is struck off on the volume of work they can produce, but that’s irrelevant. if we can save substantially using an alternative brand, then it is good business sense to do so…
i know you have a gerber edge peter, ian, i am not sure if you do or a roland pc600… however… printone became best known some years back from bringing their high quality alternative RIBBONS into the UK market for Roland PC60-600 and Gerber Edge… from responses i read here in the past and through some other sources, they were cleaning up with their thermal ribbon range. and guess what? the brand was "Renown".
have either you tried thier edge or pc600 ribbons or even the signfoils edge ribbon peter?

[David Rowland]

i bought an ebay special of three blades for a tenner… no good for our gerber odyseey even though they fitted. I bought from Spandex in the end, no problems

[Peter Normington]

Rob, cost and quality are two separate arguments.
if you can get the identical blade at a lower price then yes, it makes sense,
if you can get a cheaper blade that is lower quality and only lasts a low percentage of the time as an original, then it is false economics.

My opinion based on my experience with 2 x graphtecs, 1signpal, 1 gerber envision, and a mimaki is that original blades lasted longer than any others I have bought.

If you have had a bad operator, then that’s no more to do with the argument than buying cheap vinyl for a bad fitter because he screws the good stuff up. if you see my logic 😀

Like I said, I will stick with the originals, and thats my advice in reply to Ade’s post, based on my experience.

Sadly I no longer have my edge,:(
I have used ribbons from renown and signfoils, but that is a different argument

Peter

[Peter Mindham]

quote John Thomson:

I bought blades recently from Hong Kong…….5 X Roland were £8.00 and 5 X Mimaki were £13.00 plus £2.00 shipping……….arrived quickly, I had a tracking number to follow their progress and got to choose 30,45 or 60 degree blades………I’m happy with that 😀

John

I assume your next printer and cutter will be from China or Hong Kong then? I am the first to want to save money but lets not forget that we need to support home companies by buying the whole range of supplies supplied by them in some shape or form. I feel strongly that a few quid saved on a small item like a blade is peanuts when we need support for the bigger things purchased locally. The Little stuff helps the companies stay in business to support us. Just my opinion.

Buy local, get the service we all need

Peter

[John Thomson]

quote Peter Mindham:

I assume your next printer and cutter will be from China or Hong Kong then?

Buy local, get the service we all need

Peter

Our current Mimaki was not manufactured in the UK , on the back it says made in Japan:wink: it was purchased from Hybrid. As it is the core of our business we paid for the highest quality that we could get.

When Marcella damaged the LPT port Hybrid wanted almost £1500 to supply a new main board………we got is repaired by a self employed electronics specialist…..the part was 30p and his labour £150……. the manufacturers agents capitalise on their monoploy to increase profits………at our expense.

We have had various cutters over the years and with one in particular experienced shocking customer service so buying from a big established supplier can also be hit or miss……….

I just don’t see the point in paying over the odds for certain items. Like I said Mimaki don’t manufacture blades they buy them in in bulk and sell on at a profit.

16 years ago we got our first cutter we were new to signs and paid over the odds for everything because were didn’t know any better but as time went on we slowly learned where to buy cheaper without compromising quality.

We used to pay £10 to get a Roland blade sharpened by Ted Knight, now I can buy 5 Roland blades for less the cost of sharpening 1. In the big scheme of things not much I know but a saving is a saving

We buy from Europoint using our UKSG account because that is cheaper for us than using our own Europoint account………same product but at a lower cost…………simple business sense to lower costs where you can?

One of the huge benefits of this forum is that people share their experiences, good and bad, so that others can use that information to avoid some of the mistakes that others have made.

john

[Peter Mindham]

Quite agree John. I think it is prudent to save on costs wherever possible. I do naturally. I also understand that there are some dealers who may charge over the odds for their services and products. This is not peculiar to our industry as we well know. The motor trade is especially adept at over charging. I do feel however, that sometimes we create a rod for our own backs by not buying from our indigenous suppliers and then complaining when the prices are higher or worse still, the company has disappeared. It is a balance that is sometimes difficult to achieve. I like to support our home companies but it is difficult. It just seems that to be concerned about saving pennies on blades is taking it to the extreme? Just my opinion and no harm or criticism meant at all. 🙂

Peter

[Mike Fear]

Have to say that I have tried various suppliers of pattern blades, and not one has been as good as the originals.

An original blade costs me more, but will last 10 times as long as the cheapo resharpened ones, many of which seem half blunt to start with, and wear out a lot quicker.

I also tried some from Ebay, that were supposedly made by a company that makes blades for some of the machine manufacturers – they were supposed to be the same as Roland originals, but didnt fit the blade holder properly.

Only good deal I got was a pack of 5 original Roland blades from overseas that was about £25.

[Robert Lambie]

quote Peter Normington:

Rob, cost and quality are two separate arguments.
if you can get the identical blade at a lower price then yes, it makes sense,
if you can get a cheaper blade that is lower quality and only lasts a low percentage of the time as an original, then it is false economics.

so an alternative that can do just as good a job is a yes then peter? because thats all i have said as my view/opinion.

quote Peter Normington:

My opinion based on my experience with 2 x graphtecs, 1signpal, 1 gerber envision, and a mimaki is that original blades lasted longer than any others I have bought.

peter i am not questioning your or anyones experience… i am simply giving my opinion and that is "in the case of vinyl cutter blades, "years back", i opted for alternatives due to the cost of a pack of blades and because i was running two different cutters at once. which doubled the outlay. after trying mathias, i moved to printone and today i am more than happy with the move. hense why i have shared my view/opinon after reading the initial post.
i for one am ALWAYS trying to advise folk to pay for the best brands they can afford, wether it be plotter, printer, vinyl etc… however, good/great alternatives are out there!

quote Peter Normington:

If you have had a bad operator, then that’s no more to do with the argument than buying cheap vinyl for a bad fitter because he screws the good stuff up. if you see my logic 😀

peter, no disrepect, but i dont see the logic mate… 😕
i didnt say i had a bad operator, i said i had a new guy…
by that i meant i was no longer the one running the machines so i could not give fair comment on whether the poor quality mathias blade had been used properly to say it was a duff blade or not…

quote Peter Normington:

Like I said, I will stick with the originals, and thats my advice in reply to Ade’s post, based on my experience.

peter, this is all i did too mate… however, you go one step further and said:

quote :

from my experience, go original every time.
I have tried them all, but none last anywhere near as long as originals.

You have tried Renown blades and every single other alternative on the UK market? if not, how can you argue your view on renown blades over mine?

quote :

Sadly I no longer have my edge,:(
I have used ribbons from renown and signfoils, but that is a different argument

why is this any different peter?
ribbons, blades, ink etc if your advice is to stick to original brands only then why actively seek and use other brands, one of which is the same brand as the blades i have mentioned?

i have been down south since friday so i havent been able to speak with andrew. i did so when i got back tonight at the work. i asked about blades used and how often we buy them for our three machines. he said… we always purchased originals, we moved to mathias because he remembers the issues over posting etc but said we moved to printone and thats as far as he can remember. i said but how often do we buy new ones. he said he honestly cannot remember the last time he bought blades. he said we do have them, just very seldom order any.
now that was my take on it too… which is fair enough… however….
we can cut up to 1400 metres of vinyl in a single month. so we are certainly pushing our blades to the max….

all this said and done…. andrew also said, when we bought our two new graphtec cutters some weeks back, graphtec included free packs of blades
with them so we should be sorted for a while yet. 😉

anyway… just thought ide make a reply to this thread since ive been away for a bit… :lol1: no disrepect meant by any of it…

[Peter Normington]

Rob, I dont see why you are getting so complicated about a blade.

its a minor expense, if you choose to use non original then fine,

So you say buy after market blades, I say buy originals, two opinions based on different circumstances.

not a big issue, Ade will pay his money and take his choice, then make his own mind up, like you and I did.

I also found that original spandex foils were better than renowns, in most cases, and I have used both, have you? but I cant give you any scientific evidence why, just down to my experience.
BTW if you have been down south, why didnt you call in for a cuppa?

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

quote Peter Normington:

its a minor expense, if you choose to use non original then fine,

So you say buy after market blades, I say buy originals, two opinions based on different circumstances.

peter, i did not post stating buy alternatives over originals.
i replied in response to the mention of mathias blades. please read my first post…
it was your reply knocking every alternative on the market that spurned further replies by myself. 🙄 :lol1:

quote :

I also found that original spandex foils were better than renowns, in most cases, and I have used both, have you? but I cant give you any scientific evidence why, just down to my experience.

i wasnt giving any advise in that reply peter…
but yes i have used their ribbons…. i had a Roland pc60 and the Roland cartridges for about a year. i then switched to the printone carts at £4.99 per cart as an alternative to the Roland originals at £14.99 big saving for me! I had the roland pc60 about 5-6 years…
i mentioned how well printone did with their edge ribbons based on my reading of replies from bob gililand and the guy thomson, sorry i forget his name. andyway both members of uksb. the guy thomson was joint partner in the edge forum for edge talk and bob submitted demos there and on here, (still in the forums if you have a look) he was also a beta tester for signlab and actively involved in the edges thermal side introduced to signlab 6 software.
anyway, from memory, both them said they had tried renown edge ribbons and recommended them as an alternative. i might be wrong but i am sure there is allot of discussion between bob and dave on the ribbons. dont quote me on that though as i am going back about 5 years now… :lol1: :lol1:

anyway… my point was not advice on the ribbons peter, it was just that you obviously DO seek alternatives to originals in the hope to make savings. and why not… makes sense to me…

quote :

BTW if you have been down south, why didnt you call in for a cuppa?

was at alton towers mate… :lol1: :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Rob I wasnt Knocking any product, just saying I had tried them and they didnt match up to the originals
I thought that was topic in question?

Perhaps we are saying the same thing then?
Peter

[John Thomson]

quote Robert Lambie:

was at Alton towers mate… :lol1: :lol1:

bet you were too short to get on any of the interesting rides? 😀

John

[Stephen Morriss]

Ooh John, you’ve a wicked sense of humour 🙂

I use both a Summa D60 and a Uniform Cadet.
Original blades were very good but I then bought some replacements that were branded Koma (or something like that) and they were just as good if not better. I managed to knock the tips off 2 on the Cadet by moving the head across while the power was off and the cutter head drops down to just the right height to clip the media tabs.
Seem to remember they were just about the same price as original ones though.

I’m trying some of the Mathis ones at the moment and have found that their initial sharpness is better than the originals and so far they have lasted very well.
I was thinking of sending off a set of my old blades to them for resharpening as well just to try them.

I’ve also got some Renown blades Rob but they are 60 degree ones so they don’t get regular use so I can’t comment on their longevity compared to the originals but they seem OK.

[Gavin MacMillan]

Signmaster to blades they claim to be made in the same factory / line as rolands but just not branded. They are a good bit cheaper, but we are still on the first blades so not sure on durability yet, so far so good though.

Gavin

[Ian Pople]

Hi,

I have just bought 5 x blades for my summa from Hong Kong cost £16.61 for 5 x blades will update if the arrive then how they cut and last.

[John Thomson]

Have to say so far our new blades are fine 😀 As always if thing go bad I will be honest enough to admit it.

john

[John Childs]

Again, my old hobby horse. It depends on who’s using the machine.

John, with respect, it is yourself and Marcella using your cutter and you are both sensible people who know and understand how to use it properly. You will therefore get the best results and longevity out of any equipment. Insert staff into the equation and things are mightily different.

That’s why I like and use the Mathias SmartKnives, because the operator has no control over blade depth. Careless staff can cause enough damage with excessive pressure and I’m sure that, if they could increase cutting depth, would almost be cutting patterns on the floor.

[John Thomson]

I see you point John…staff can be a liability……..no respect for the equipment that their employer pays for 😕

Surely better that they trash a blade by digging it into the cutting strip that costs a fraction of the cost of the original?

Training good staff is a long process……and the ones who are good invariably have the intelligence and drive to go on to better things…….after you have invested time and money training them…………

john

[Robert Lambie]

quote John Childs:

get the best results and longevity out of any equipment. Insert staff into the equation and things are mightily different.

just one of my points to peter… 😀

john, im probably forgetting something about the mathias blades but how can staff not increase the blade pressure? its not the blade that does that its the machine carriage that governs the downforce which is set electronically in the setup panel?
i do realise they cannot remove the blade from the holder as it is sealed in a bearing unit which is a good thing, as it allows the blade to always spin free and not gather grime which can cause the blade to lock and create a peppered line.

[Peter Normington]

Rob mate, you need a bigger screen or a visit to spec savers 😀

Peter

[John Childs]

Sorry Rob. Perhaps not explained clearly.

They CAN increase the pressure, but they CAN’T increase the cutting depth. That’s fixed.

The SmartKnives just take one potential mistake out of the equation.

[Robert Lambie]

quote Peter Normington:

Rob mate, you need a bigger screen or a visit to spec savers 😀

Peter

why? what have i done, said now…. :lol1:

i think i know what you mean john, so yes you are right. most blade holders can be turned at the end to expose more blade but the smart knives dosnt have that option?

[Peter Normington]

only joking Rob, I know you speed read,
John did say
"That’s why I like and use the Mathias SmartKnives, because the operator has no control over blade depth. Careless staff can cause enough damage with excessive pressure and I’m sure that, if they could increase cutting depth, would almost be cutting patterns on the floor.

Peter

[Gavin MacMillan]

A lot of harsh comments about staff (in this thread and others). Maybe some employers should look more closely at their interview techniques and character judgment and following that how they go about training. There are plenty of capable people out there looking for employment, we all made mistakes when we were learning and still do, a bit of humility doesn’t go a miss. As an employer the buck stops with you.

I think I woke up this morning feeling the need for debate!

Gavin

[Ade Brown]

Hi all,

well i got my new blades from!!!!!

Print-one – got the renown

however they wanted more for them than what was advertised in the foldout flyer from the show…

Ade

[John Childs]

quote Gavin MacMillan:

I think I woke up this morning feeling the need for debate!

I’d give you a lively debate, but I’m short on time. Maybe later. 😀

[Jason Davies]

We use the smart knives in our Rolands and Graphtec, wouldn’t use anything else now, excellent service from Mathius all round.

Blades are sent back to be re-sharpened and normally back the next working day, very easy to use and time saving.

Jason

[Chris Wool]

reminds me of a Python sketch ministry of arguments ?

10 min argument £5 😀

found it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy34xQ_Xe … re=related

[Peter Normington]

quote Chris Wool:

reminds me of a Python sketch ministry of arguments ?

10 min argument £5 😀

found it

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy34xQ_Xe … re=related

Is that for the original argument, or for a less expensive copy, and will it last as long?

Peter

[Chris Wool]

peter you have not paid yet so i am not arguing.

meanwhile on the post

my £2.50 blades are just fine.
for normal use i am more than happy.
in the soljet cutting a lot of laminated vinyl you tend to knock the tip of once in a while so a cheep blade is ideal.

chris

[Peter Normington]

quote Chris Wool:

peter you have not paid yet so i am not arguing.

meanwhile on the post

my £2.50 blades are just fine.
for normal use i am more than happy.
in the soljet cutting a lot of laminated vinyl you tend to knock the tip of once in a while so a cheep blade is ideal.

chris

Yes i have paid,
I sent you a cheque

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

Is this an exclusive argument or can anyone join in 😕

[Chris Wool]

sorry can’t start yet its not cleared yet

[Peter Normington]

its only exlusive if you pay, otherwise you need to join the free forum, but only if you are prepared to pay to join in…

Peter

[Chris Wool]

phill you are more than welcome but you are quite capable of starting your own. 😉

[Ian Pople]

Has any one got a pic of the smart blade holder the blade holder on my summa has no height adjustment and a blue Collete on the blade end. Is this a smart knife?

Thanks

Ian

[Ian Pople]

just did a search looks like my summa came with a smart knife. wasted my money on the others then woops noob mistake.

[Chris Wool]

ian i would buy a proper blade holder for your machine, then you can use what ever quality and type of blade you like.

chris

[Ian Pople]

yes next purchase found a holder for £45 IS THAT A LOT?

Thanks

Ian

[Chris Wool]

its enough 🙁

search a little more

chris