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vinyl removal problem
i have recently put some normal cut vinyl graphics on a Lamborghini, avery 7 year i think and was asked if they come off easily, i said yes i think so as i have never had any trouble before. now the client has shown me some pictures where the lacquer has come off and in some areas even the paint when they removed the vinyl. they said they started to remove the vinyl and when they saw what had happened they took it to another sign company that took the rest off and have taken some lacquer and paint off. now where do i stand? i expect they want some money from me but i only applied the vinyl.
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26 Replies
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Hi,
If you have trade insurance call the legal help line for advice.
Ian
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How old was the car? the paint can’t be very good if the vinyl took it off. 😮
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Sounds a bit fishy to me.
Why did they remove the graphics so soon after application?
Why did they go to another sign company?
Why use 7 year if it was a short term project?
Did you give any disclaimer against the paint not being original factory finish (which shouldn’t cause this problem)?
Was it an old classic motor? If so I might have walked away from the job – too risky on old paintwork.
It’s odd that they specifically asked about removal and then there was a problem.My defence now might be that it was the removal method and they should have got you to do it.
I reckon they are looking for a new paint job at someone else’s expense.
Good time to belong to the FSB who include FREE legal advice with membership. -
How recently were the graphics applied Luca?
Sounds a bit dodgy why they decided to take them off so quickly!!
Tell em it’s the paint that’s the problem not sticking to their car not your vinyl not sticking to the paint -
i would simply argue that because they didn not come back to you at the first sign of trouble, that you cannot be responsible for how others might try to remove the vinyl,
the laquer / paint must clearly be of inferior quality for this to have happened. i think i would also point out that they must have been aware of a potential problem with the paint, or they’d not have requested some of the answers they did,
unless, of course, it was for a charity rally or something, but even then, i’ve had 651 and 751 oracle on cars for weekends, weeks, months, and even years, not caused me a prob!the ONLY time i’ve ever had laquer lift, well, actually it was several layers of paint, was when removing old reflecctive from a recovery truck, i warned the guy before hand, and he didn’t care, i stripped one side, and had about a sq foot of damaged / liften paint, his guy helping, did the other, and stripped loads of paint off!
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the car is about 2 years old, they are a prestigious car hire company and they want to advertise the fact that you could have your name plastered all over the car so they just wanted it for a photo shoot but left the graphics on for about a month and i only had 7 year vinyl in stock but though it would be fine and told them so.
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I think Hugh is spot on, because you weren’t given a chance to offer advice when they first noticed an issue. or allowed to see the damage first hand, then not your problem, for all we/you know they could have used a chisel to remove the vinyl, If they persist, ask them to get a report by an independent consultant (one that you both agree to) as to the condition of the paint, that is the problem as far as I can see, and being a hire company its probably been pranged a few times, and repaired on the cheap.
Peter
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There was issues with prestige car hire companies a few years ago, who hired out cars without marking down minor marks on it & then refusing to give back large deposits upon pointing out the marks at the end of hire. Is this the start of a new scam or a scam just to get a free paint job. Give them the Avery specification for the vinyl & ask them to supply a written description of the problem & that you will pass it on to Avery. If they aren’t prepared to do that then point them back to the people who removed it.
Kev
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quote Kevin Flowers:There was issues with prestige car hire companies a few years ago, who hired out cars without marking down minor marks on it & then refusing to give back large deposits upon pointing out the marks at the end of hire.
Kevnot just prestige hire companies that do this Kev, it is fairly common practice for hirers to pay several times for the same minor scratches and dents, which are not repaired till the car is sold, and then as I say, done on the cheap, without the insurance company being involved.
Peter
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I agree that if it is a hire car the chances of the paint being original are very low…..cars like that get regular front end paintwork due to stone chips all the time………you can not be held responsible for damage that they caused to their own vehicle and the another sign company continued with………..
If some one brought any vehicle to me because they had a problem with paint I would not touch it and tell them to take it to the company that fitted the vinyls.
It could well be a scam………supercar hire incurs maintenance costs that would make your hair curl……….I remember reading that ther P1 hire club were over £36,000 in maintenance to run a Lamborghini Murciélago for 12 months.
Hope this ends up OK for you, it must be a worry.
John
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to add to it i done it for FREE in the hope to get more work from it and to have my logo on it!
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Luca, if you did it for free, how can they claim against you, or prove that you even did the job? tell them you dont know what they are talking about. they sound like scam artists to me.
Now for the second lesson, we have all been there and worn the t shirt.
NEVER EVER do stuff like this based on a promise, always get them to pay up front, and if more work comes from it, then you can reward them.Peter
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As Hugh said,
Why were you not given a chance to rectify the problem? Did they seek advice on the removal of the vinyl beforehand or did they just ‘do what they thought best’?I wouldnt say you are at fault based on whats been written here. I find it very hard to believe that normal 7 year avery would have enough bite to remove a decent paint job.
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Probably a bad paint job. I’ve had paint and lacquer come off on a brand new mercedes before that we’d put a price up the side of.
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quote Peter Normington:…Now for the second lesson, we have all been there and worn the t shirt.
NEVER EVER do stuff like this based on a promise, always get them to pay up front, and if more work comes from it, then you can reward them.Peter
Every time I do work for members of the community who own several shops / take-aways it’s ALWAYS the same. "We will need more work from you…give us a discount and you can have it…" I always meet with the same resolve…NOPE. Discounts of FUTURE work. The last one even tried to haggle me down from £2k+VAT by offering me £1200 ‘cash’ as he could "get it done at ‘X’ cheaper"…my laugh said it all..got the job too, and ‘lo’, for the original price with £50 of freebies thrown in…
Re: the damage on the car. Don’t even worry about it. Sure you won’t get any more work from them – but they removed it and then took it elsewhere. The removal caused the problem on most likely substandard paintwork / mismatched laquer coat. Have peeled off many a dodgy sprayjob over the years – everything from newly sprayed bike fairings lifting like clingfilm to the entire sides of vans coming away with the application tape! Not once (after seeing the issue first hand) wanted compensation from me…they did kick up a stink at the spraypainters though! If genuine damage that you caused (for future reference) make sure your liability covers vehicles…some don’t! Also – free or not…the business performed a service for a fee on ‘nil’. This is not the same as you doing a personal favour for a mate – it was a business arrangement.
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Dave,
you probably know this any way, but if you do a "free job" the vat is still payable on the value of the job, had you charged for it.What I am saying is in the real world, no court will uphold a claim without proof of purchase 😉
Peter
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quote Peter Normington:Dave,…What I am saying is in the real world, no court will uphold a claim without proof of purchase 😉
Peter
Always a curse when your 11 1/2 month old TV goes on the fritz… 👿
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i would not think a car of this value would be given to someone like ED IN A SHED to refinish .
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quote Neil Whyte:i would not think a car of this value would be given to someone like ED IN A SHED to refinish .
Quite often the case, unfortunately, Hire companies and car dealers , are a bit different from private owners. I have nothing against Ed in a shed though, Ed can be just as professional as a main dealer.
its cowboys that are the problem.I smashed a clients Ferrari a few year back, " Ed " repaired it for £1200
A certain dealer in Egham wanted £12,000!I returned the car to the Swiss Ferrari dealer in exchange for a newer model, and they thoroughly checked it over and no faults were found.
Peter
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well thanks for all your comments, they have made me feel allot better! i was pooing myself about paying out thousands that i aint got but you have made me see a bit more light, thanks for that! you live and learn.
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Something similar happened to me a number of years ago.
I had an employee working for me then who had applied graphics to a van but hadn’t fitted them straight. I told my "then employee" that the graphics weren’t straight and I thought he should take them off and do it again. He maintained they were straight but I insisted he should re-do the work.
Lo and behold when he began to remove the vinyl the paint came off with it (the van had been re-painted a week earlier). Rather than apply common sense and inform me we had a problem, he continued to remove the vinyl along with the paint to try and prove a point to me.
I sacked him a week later to prove my own point to him.
My point is – don’t let anybody try and take the p1ss 😕 Call their bluff
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If you’ve made no financial gain from the transaction…How can you be held liable?
Tell then to get on their bike.
Even if you were making a quid out of this, you have no responsibility over something that you have no control over like the original paint job. Fair enough if you’d used a permanent adhesive, or a monocal or polycal with an aggressive adhesive, then fair go…You’ve made the mistake so should pay for it.
You’ve put the right gear on the job for no financial gain…Don’t give it another minute’s thought mate.
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quote Lee Attewell:If you’ve made no financial gain from the transaction…How can you be held liable?
Tell then to get on their bike.
Even if you were making a quid out of this, you have no responsibility over something that you have no control over like the original paint job. Fair enough if you’d used a permanent adhesive, or a monocal or polycal with an aggressive adhesive, then fair go…You’ve made the mistake so should pay for it.
You’ve put the right gear on the job for no financial gain…Don’t give it another minute’s thought mate.
Luca stated earlier: they just wanted it for a photo shoot but left the graphics on for about a month and i only had 7 year vinyl in stock but though it would be fine and told them so.
I wouldn’t say that it was the correct material in this case. It was a case of make do surely?
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I would have said that using cast vinyl was exactly the right thing to do on a vehicle. Most Cast vinyls are easily removable only leave up to 30% residue. So I’m missing your point Peter ?
The client got a better quality material. Making do IMO would have been putting on a polycal instead of a cast for a long term job. Unless you guys over there call polycal vinyls 7 year???
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OK Lee, with the spec from the customer requiring graphics for a short term promo, ideally I would have used a semi-perm vinyl which would lift off with little problem.
Why would one want to be applying glue solvent to a Lamborghini to get that 30% residue off given the choice of a material which would leave none?
Anyway, Luca used a cast which as you indicate, for a short while does not have a high "grab".However, they left the graphics on for a longer period than the job required.
Here could be Luca’s defence – he applied a vinyl which would peel off OK in the short term, having been told it was for a short term photo shoot only.
If they had stated they would then leave it on for a few months he would not have fitted a cast vinyl due to it achieving a high bond in the longer term.In which case he would have possibly bought in some semi-perm vinyl which would have still come off easily after a few months.
Reading between the lines, Luca intimates that he would have used a short term vinyl but only had 7 year cast in stock.
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yes you are absolutely right peter.
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