Views on expansion into paper printing etc

[Adrian Hewson]

Yes we do both

Looking to be the one stop shop for everything, not just the printing as the finishing side that you need to build up, you need folders, creaser guillotines, booklet makers, calendar makers laminators etc etc, depending how you go into it can cost quite a lot

[Martin Pearson]

Ruairi try doing a search on the forum as Warren asked about this quite recently, can’t remember how long ago but has to be within the last few months.

[Ruairi O'Boyle]

Cheers guys, I know there will be significant set up costs and I am still not sure if it is the way to go but I get asked for posters, flyers and business cards more and more now.

I will check Warrens post. I did try but wasnt having much luck.

Thanks again

[Warren Beard]

Here’s the post;

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … ight=print

I’m now fully set up, it’s a lot of cash to get going but the work is there, there is a lot of competition but if you have a good customer base you will find they will still use you even if slightly more expensive, a customer will rather spend an extra few quid then have to deal with many companies so some of them will use you. Make sure you can carry the costs of it though as it’s tough getting started and there is a learning curve, it’s also not just a print and dispatch business, takes time to learn setting, papers and finishing etc so not the easiest to get in to to be honest as there is a lot of things to do and learn, I have 6 new machines I now have to get to grips with and find best ways to use and what materials to use with regards to laminates etc, I didn’t think lamination would be so big so got a manual feed machine, almost every bus card I do they want laminated, even things like invites etc so now my laminating process is my bottle neck, not to mention finding the best laminate to use and what size to use to fit your paper stock etc etc. Just got in all the stuff I need to make pads, it’s still waiting for me to give it a try so when an order comes in I know what I’m doing, I’m rambling now.

You can’t just print, you have to finish in many ways as well, there is a lot more to learn about papers, laminates and finishing processes. The competition is stiff and you can’t compete on just about any order of about 2000 impressions or more so I’m already out sourcing the larger orders I’ve been getting in which I didn’t want to do but my cost price is more than I can buy it in for complete.

You need to do your research and make sure you have customers who will support you from day one, I haven’t even been able to launch that side of the business yet but have done a few grand in the last 2 months just from existing customers.

good luck

[Martin Cole]

quote Warren Beard:

I’m now fully set up, it’s a lot of cash to get going but the work is there, there is a lot of competition but if you have a good customer base you will find they will still use you even if slightly more expensive, a customer will rather spend an extra few quid then have to deal with many companies so some of them will use you. Make sure you can carry the costs of it though as it’s tough getting started and there is a learning curve, it’s also not just a print and dispatch business, takes time to learn setting, papers and finishing etc so not the easiest to get in to to be honest as there is a lot of things to do and learn, I have 6 new machines I now have to get to grips with and find best ways to use and what materials to use with regards to laminates etc, I didn’t think lamination would be so big so got a manual feed machine, almost every bus card I do they want laminated, even things like invites etc so now my laminating process is my bottle neck, not to mention finding the best laminate to use and what size to use to fit your paper stock etc etc. Just got in all the stuff I need to make pads, it’s still waiting for me to give it a try so when an order comes in I know what I’m doing, I’m rambling now.

You can’t just print, you have to finish in many ways as well, there is a lot more to learn about papers, laminates and finishing processes. The competition is stiff and you can’t compete on just about any order of about 2000 impressions or more so I’m already out sourcing the larger orders I’ve been getting in which I didn’t want to do but my cost price is more than I can buy it in for complete.

but have done a few grand in the last 2 months just from existing customers.

good luck

Any good news in amongst that lot Warren (?) 🙁

hang on just read the last sentence…. phew not all bad then 😀

[Dan Piddington]

I’ve been thinking about bringing this in house for a while now. I’ve got some
good suppliers that I sub out to but need to have more control on quality, consistency and turnaround.

Warren – Would you mind telling me what set up you have? I appreciate you may not want to.

This topic is definitely on my mind allot, interesting subject.

Cheers Dan

[Adrian Hewson]

Hi Warren just out of interest what kit did you buy

[Warren Beard]

Ended up with;

Xerox 700i
Duplo DC615 slitter/cutter/creaser
Duplo 1000 Folder
Ideal Guillotine
Vivid Matrix A1 laminator
and a small booklet maker.

not the most heavy productive equipment but for starters it is fairly good.

[Adrian Hewson]

HI warren yes that looks like a good start, you need to see what kind of products you have to make for your customers before buying too much kit, we are heavily into programme production so we have two booklet makers, with built in trimmers, that is also the reason we went for two printers as we cannot afford to let anyone down as a programme that is late for a match is useless. But generally we have found booklets to be a good seller as the bigger houses are expensive and its easy for us to do small runs of small booklets, good luck

[Ruairi O'Boyle]

Sorry guys never got a chance to come back to you.

I have read through Warren post and I am actually probably going to hold off on the printing idea and concrentrate on building on the signs setup.

Thanks for your input though it certainly was helpful.

Ruairi

[David Hammond]

My dads business (soon be merged with mine 😀 ) has a similar set up.

As warren says, it’s a massive outlay, and you need so much more than just a printer. We have a specialist laminating company locally, but don’t really do much of it.

We’ve a creasing machine, finishing unit on the xerox, binding machine, and calendar maker.

The guillotine is awesome and can be useful for large format work. The other week I printed 1000 small stickers on the Roland, then trimmed them down into sheets of 25, stacked them in the guillotine and cut them down to singles.

[Ruairi O'Boyle]

What kind of outlay would it take to get into it a a commercial level rather than home office type setup?

[David Hammond]

From memory, and a couple of years ago at that.

Xerox £4k + re commissioning (£2k) + monthly service contract & click charge
Guillotine £1k + servicing + H&S inspection (6monthly iirc)

You’ve then got a whole new load of stock to carry. Card, paper, gloss, labels, etc.

I’m not trying to put anybody off, as warren said a couple of £k in 2months. Like all business decisions, depends if you have the demand.

[Ruairi O'Boyle]

Cheers David I think I’d rather look for a good trade supplier and put that towards a rolls roller or Cnc to be honest!

[Warren Beard]

quote David Hammond:

From memory, and a couple of years ago at that.

Xerox £4k + re commissioning (£2k) + monthly service contract & click charge
Guillotine £1k + servicing + H&S inspection (6monthly iirc)

You’ve then got a whole new load of stock to carry. Card, paper, gloss, labels, etc.

I’m not trying to put anybody off, as warren said a couple of £k in 2months. Like all business decisions, depends if you have the demand.

this must be some old well used equipment then or a very low spec printer, I opted to go for a higher spec printer as there are many advantages for productivity but still I never saw any prices anywhere near this for refurbed machines but I bought mine new.

My opinion is either do it properly or don’t do it at all, I used to outsource but wasn’t happy putting my reputation on line line for service and quality from somebody else whom I had no control over so stopped doing it all together until I could do it myself which I now can. You have the potential to lose a customer for a bad batch of business cards or late delivery when outsourcing and you never know what they would have had around the corner but after letting them down on a few quids worth of cards or something you may never know.

It’s not a situation for everybody as it depends on your market, I did tons of research with current customers etc and so far seems to be paying off and I’m still yet to launch the new department.

On another note I’ve noticed Fast Signs is moving in this same direction too and are buying out or in to independent print companies, not sure on all the details and just saw a brief write up on it but interesting to say the least.

It was a big decision for me between a CNC and a print set up, my reason for going print route is I have an existing client base I can get work from and get work in straight away, with a cnc I would have to find a new client base to get in extra work to help to pay it off. A CNC machine is next on my shopping list and hope I can afford one soon but depends on how we grow now and also even after a 50% expansion in our unit space will be an issue once again and now no space to expand 😕

the only real advice I can give anybody is just keep pushing forward, make a decision and push forward, if you stand still you get left behind so doesn’t matter what you do just do it right and do your best at it, what will be will be, rather do everything you can and fail knowing you put 100% in to it rather then coating and regretting.

Best of luck.

Warren

[David Hammond]

Yes it’s by no means a new machine. We run a xerox DC-250 with the professional finishing unit. I may be wrong with the figures, but we had to pay additional fees to get the machine recomissioned in order for xerox to maintain it. But we own the xerox outright. As its on a service contract any problems the engineers there same day, print quality is fine, and we don’t really have any problems with it.

Digital is great, as you’ve said you need all the finishing gear to get the most of it. Still cheaper to get a trade printer on large volumes though.

My dads 1/2 of the business does all the digital & litho work, I handle the signage, large format print, hence my limited knowledge.

[Ruairi O'Boyle]

Warren

I agree totally with the ability to do everything in house as you can keep a better handle on quality and turnaround. In my case I think I should invest further in my sign end at present but based on what you have said I think the end game will be to add paper printing in the not too distant future. I have a construction business and within it we continuously invest in developing our internal supply chain and to be honest it has been fairly successful as a result of cross selling etc. I was just interested in sign makers first hand experience in this one as from the outside it seems an extremely competitive market with a lot of competition!!