Versacamm won’t sense crop mark – SUGGESTIONS?

[Phill Fenton]

I have a Cadet which is a converted Versacamm. I use the troop rip to print the registration marks – apparently any other way of printing registration marks will cause it to fail when using the troop rip

When I first got the machine I found that it sometimes took 2 or 3 attempts to get the crop mark sensor to work. Nowadays I am able to get it to work first time every time. It’s all down to positioning the base point accurately in the first place. Try experimenting with setting the base point just slightly ahead or behind of where you think it should be. After a few experiments you should be able to determine the optimum start position for you to get the automatic detection system to work.

If all else fails you should still be able to manually set up the crop marks positions into the versacamms memory – how to do this should be explained in the printers manual (I have the cadet manual – but the versacamm should be the same I think).

[Kevin Flowers]

Doyle
don’t have a versacam but do have a rocky 38 with a summa opus cutter sometimes the opus won’t see reg marks because laminate as masked the colour enough for it not to reconize it even though you can re calibrate it. I get round by having some 5mm squares cut from black vinyl all i do is place them over the reg marks and the opus sensor then picks them up because being true black. its just being lazy really it saves me calibrating for straight print or laminated print. i leave it to detect normal print and use the vinyl squares when i laminate.

i ain’t saying that this is your problem but it may guide you

Kev

[Phill Fenton]

Further to what I have just said – the troop RIP prints both crop marks and registration marks – I haven’t used versaworks – but assuming it runs oon similar principles:

One set of marks consist of crosses (which are used for manually setting up the positions in the printers memory). These markers will not be detected by the auto detection system

The other set of marks consist of solid circles of about 5mm dia. The first circle also has a rectangle next to it which the sensor also reads. So – check you are printing the correct set of markers for the auto detection system to work?

[Gordon Forbes]

When i do this all i do is don’t cover the crop marks with laminate also I guide the cutter to the centre of the round registration mark but i don’t set a base point works ok for me
You will have been told this but the print reg marks have to be selected in the print manager to get the machine to read them when you laminate.

Goop

[Mike Grant]

I have also had no success with cutting after laminating. The machine hunts about 6 times back and forth across the machine then jumps about 6 inches up the vinyl and stops dead. Then I tried manually telling the machine where the reg marks were, even using a torch for mm acuracy, I gave up in frustration in the end before I damaged the machine in a fit of temper. Usually end up cutting by hand which defeats the object 😥 (:) (hot) (chat.)

[Gordon Forbes]

What rip are you both using?

[Mike Grant]

Color-rip

[Gordon Forbes]

I haven’t tried colour rip yet for any cutting infact jast started using it for printing.
I use signlab and it has failed to detect it a few times but never failed the second time to cut it had a prob withthe registration though which needed service manager set up to correct it.

[MARTY]

When we use the detect crop feature we don’t actually have the blade above the mark. Just make sure its inline and leave it at the usual start point but press base point only to origin foward and back, so the blade stars to move across about an inch til it gets to the crop mark.

[mark walker]

Hi Doyle, Sorry if this sounds negative but have you set a cut path and have you told the machine to process the cut path? I use signlab most of the time but have used the rip (colour rip ) that came with the machine a little. In signlab( if any use to you) reload after lamination, the machine will set the width, using the up down arrows locate the spot on the grey cutting strip, then press home (base) (b). Once this is done send the instructions from the pc to cut, the versa/whatever should find the crop marks if they are there and then process the cut path, if it is the same as mine you will have set a colour and called this “cut path”. Some-times if not lined up properly the machine will hunt a little for the cropmarks.

We can work it out, keep us informed please,
Mark.
Ps if the voltage is ok to print it must therefore be ok to cut, sounds a lame excuse from the engineer to me!! 😮

[mark walker]

H Mike, align the dot over the grey cutting strip, never mind the blade or anything else, its the dot, only the dot, only the dot, only the dot, then press the base button! if you don’t press this forget it!

(mod-edit) for a chat if you want, should work a treat.

Cheers, Mark. 😀

[mark walker]

Further to this thread, I bought mine 2nd hand from someone who told me porkies all the way, it’s been a severe learning curve, presumably ( I thought) I would have had better backup buying new. Did no one give that support?

Mark. 😮

[Rodney Gold]

There should be no problem with the machine reading the crop marks m, even with a lam over it.
firstly , it might be the sensor that is dirty and it has to be cleaned , check if your service guy did that.
Secondly , make sure you are printing the right crop mark.
Thirdly , register with the roland forum and search it or post the question there , http://www.rolandgga.com (under support – user forums) as roland themselves and some very knowledgable users post in the forums.
Fouthly , check that the sensor at the back of the machine is covered and so must the front one , you have to leave a little space in front and behind the graphic. If you have no space in front and the front sensor is not covered by media it wont sense and if you have cut off behind too close and it uncovers the back sensor when sensing , it wont find the last crop marks.
fifthly , make SURE the graphic is isn straight , there is about a 4-5 degree cock allowance , if the 2 front crop marks are not in line by this , you will have problems.
If the head does not move to at least TRY find the first crop mark , then it could be the media sensor uncovered or a software/firmware issue.
The blade holder needs to be moved to the middle of the first circle with the controls and then you start the auto sensing. There should be a manual sensing method as well that will work if auto doesnt.

[Chris Wool]

doyle having read you first post – are you using the auto align before you send the cut.

chris

[Tim Shaw]

if you are using signlab there is a bug in the software on the crop mark sensor routine, it only applies if you are using the auto copies function, you will need to download the update. if can be done directly from the signlab menus,

It should work fine on a single print and cut (after laminating). If not, sorry can’t help.

Tim

one other thing i do for alignment is to set the crop circles ( black printed, not the flattend corn type) slightly back from the cutting strip, manually, after a sheet set up, so that when it starts the align routine the cirlce moves forwards towards the cutting strip, to help location etc.

we are only talking 5mm or so.

[Mark Candlin]

Ive said on these forums that i think the alignment on the VC is poor.

Things that seem to help Ive found are the following.
When setting upto print make sure you have a nice right angle trim on the leading edge of your vinyl. Line this up with the cutting strip or the first joint on the front of the machine. Dont set the grip rollers to near the materials edges, give your self a bit of room either side if you can.
Once set up pump out 300mm or so out the machine and set as your base point.
Print and laminate making sure that you dont cut off your nice straight leading edge.
Reload the lamonated print again lining up the leading edge with the front edge of the machine.
Set the base point to the middle of the registration point and go for it.
Should work. I sometimes check that the the media is loaded “square” by pumping out the print untill the registration points come out of the machine and drop beneath the front panel. I then nudge it down untill one of the reg marks “goes around the corner” the other reg mark on the other side of the machine should be exactlly the same. This way you no the print is in square.

It may be worth trying a test print. Print a job with reg marks, but dont unload the media. Then try setting up the blade with the reg marks and see if cuts ok. That way it shoukd be perfectly aligned and there should be no problems with alignment.
If it doent work then call in the engineers again.

[Chris Wool]

on the sc540 pro 2 ex there are two different calibrations for the print and cut.
1 – print then cut accessible by the normal menu.
2 cut relative the reg marks is in service menu only.
as the vc is a cut down version on this machine i can only presume that roland would not re-invent the system.

i have spent a lot of time setting these up and have no complaints at all i think that i have only reprinted one job in 2 & half years due to poor cut alignment.

there was the same problem with the pc 60s etc but mine still cuts well 8 years on. so i cant agree that the print and cut is poor

chris

[Peter Shaw]

The reading of the marks is a doddle in Troop V5/Colorip once you get the settings right. It finds them easily as long as the are not more than about 5 degrees out and are somewhere near the print head.

I bet your problem is a setting in Versaworks. Have you ever had it working?

Peter

[mark jones]

if using colorrip make sure you have not got the margins in the setup set to zero. the gap between the printer defined cropmarks and the print job needs to be at least the same size as the cropmark ie about 15mm.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=11301 … argins.JPG

also you need to have a 2nd unit set up as a cut only one and make sure that the cutter is enabled inside this units properties. and that automatic sensing is selected.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=11301 … erties.JPG

versaworks does a very good job of print-laminate-cute as it is just a case of changing over the machine from print to then cut only.

people slate versaworks but i think it is
being done a major disjustice. now dont get me wrong, i am sure they are faults in there. but i use it daily on multiple setups and i have yet to find anything that is a problem.

always make sure you are on the latest version of the software. i hate to see people complaining about how poor something is only to find out they are on version 1.01 and the current version which is readily available is 1.51.

hope this makes sense and appologies if i have gone over old ground.[/img]

[Peter Normington]

I’de just hit it with a big stick (John Cleese style) 😀
Peter

[David Rowland]

Good idea peter.. actually I got a better one.

If you are failing to find the crop mark… go in at midnight to the Unit, take a torch, put the laminate in, turn the lights off and try it in the dark

[Phill Fenton]

quote Dave Rowland:

Good idea peter.. actually I got a better one.

If you are failing to find the crop mark… go in at midnight to the Unit, take a torch, put the laminate in, turn the lights off and try it in the dark

But don’t blame Dave if you get arrested by the police :lol1: :lol1:

[David Rowland]

nothing wrong with that idea!!!! light getting in around you making the marks harder to read… just turn the light off!

[Phill Fenton]

But why Midnight Dave? Can this be done as soon after it gets dark – or do we have to wait until midnight as suggested in your post (someone wandering about an industrial unit with a torch at midnight is bound to raise suspicion. :lol1: )

[David Rowland]

For you Phill, you can do it earlier, but everyone else it must be midnight.

[Mike Grant]

I followed the book to a tee when I set it up first. Done a test print & cut,and all was ok. Then sent 50 down to print and the darn thing wouldnt line up to cut. Ended up cutting by hand in frustration.

All settings were set according to the book, and even the manual setup didn’t work.

🙁

[Karl Williams]

IN ONYX TRY SETTING THE PRINTER MARKS TO DARKER. ON SOME MEDIAS THESE DON’T WORK WELL. CHANGING THIS RESOLVES THE PROBLEM!

[Peter Normington]

Karl, Please can you turn your cap loc off 😀

Peter

[Karl Williams]

Is that better boss?