Versa Camm

[AaSk4Stickers]

Hi there

Sounds neat – what have you been used to up to now? Be interested in learning what the running costs (ink cartridges etc) are compared to my PC600 colour camm

Regards

Alan

[Phill Fenton]

I too look forward to hearing more about this machine David. Let us know how you get on 😀

[Robert Lambie]

i take it this is inkjet?
then again maybe thermal if that is the max width it prints/cuts.

do me a favour and ask how wide the print head is.. i think the new summa d3 d2 are about 4-5 inches wide. 🙄
oh yeh.. dont forget to ask how far a head goes before it blows! 😉

[Rodney Gold]

I have been playing with one for a while and own its bigger brother , the Soljet Pro II ex.
Apart from the odd size (30″ is not a standard roll afaik) its a small signshops dream machine.
Before I get jumped on , I couldn’t care whether Roland makes a sale or not as the only relationship I have with Roland (apart from my love hate relationship with my Roland PC stuff) is with the dealer.
Its a 4 colour machine vs the 6 colours of the bigger ones and is a lot slower but is about 1/3rd of the price.
Roland tend to overhype their machines capabilities but this one does deliver as promised.
It prints stunningly on uncoated media and the better the media , the better the print. On stuff like starrex premium the output is almost like a dye sub printer, has a wonderful gloss to it and is scratchproof.(you destroy the media before getting the print off)

Prior to Roland introducing new solvent inks and a media heater bar , one could only print on coated media and it took a long time for the print to dry , this has changed. Print dry times are still an issue as some modes deposit more inks than others , for example overprinting backlit stuff and the prints are a little tacky when output – 1/2 an hour later they are perfectly dry. Most stuff is perfectly dry to the touch when it comes out.
(Its slower than the bigger machines thus ink has more time to dry and the printed output is on the heated platten a little longer – its actually better in this regard)

his is a very versatile machine and Im looking at one to compliment my bigger machine or to do sublimation ink printing with.

In terms of resolution and colour , it isnt as good as the very big machine but is , IMHO 90% as capable – colours are vibrant , the output is not dotty in even the worst resolution modes , vectors are crisp and there are no wierd colour shifts – we have matched most stuff quite easily.

In terms of what you can print on , we have used various papers (glossy , waterproof , self adhesive, 180gm , 230gm matt etc) and get true photo quality , the only paper media I have had little success with was canvas.
I have used various cloths , tons of vinyl , acetate , foils and some exotic stuff one doesnt normally print on, micropore, banner , tyvek , sailcloth etc with good results.
Uncoated Reflective vinyl and the shiny gold and silver stuff doesnt work, however the inks still work on any coated media just as well as uncoated, so we coat them.
The coated media doesnt have the scratch resistance the uncoated does.
I’ve also coated thin rigid media with a clear laquer spray and got really good results printing on it. I havent tried anything more than .7mm thick tho and one would need to make some sort of table or support to do large rigid pieces as well as making sure they are perfectly flat.
It die cuts its output and its a pretty fast cutter and has handled most stuff flawlessly – even scoring paper almost through so it can be broken out.

Nothing is without issues and on some small decals printied on very thin conformable vinyl (Avery and grafitak) with full or heavy ink coverage , the solvents and ink seem to “shrink” the decal and it can curl. changing to starrex (made by X-film) cured that.
Starrex in germany coats any media , so if you find one that doesnt work uncoated , you get it coated.
What does it do better then the PC series – well it prints a whole lot faster , wider and a whole lot better – the RIP is an OEM version of Wasatch’s softrip and is really excellent , fast and configureable and you can tweak it to the max. It cuts better and faster too. It prints small detail WAY better and you can tackle those teeny and those big big jobs with tons more confidence – even better – its way way cheaper to run regarding consumables
At the worst in 1440 dpi mode with full ink coverage – cost of inks are under GBP 8 per sq meter (80 pence per sq ft) and generally you can work at about 50 pence or less
Banners are a dream , it churns them out really fast – you can do about 100 sq ft an hour in its high speed mode) and output is really very good.
You can work at about 30-40 sq ft per hour in good quality modes on most stuff – not the speediest , but if you want high throughput – get the bigger models.
What wont it do that a PC will – it wont print gold/silver/white (tho we have printed colours on shiny gold and silver and IMHO these are better than gold on the solid colours of vinyl as the colours take a metallic sheen)
It does not have quite the density of print on darker substrates – tho you can set it to do a 2 or 3x overprint (It does not reprint – just lays down more ink)
Print and cut registration is excellent and the print/laminate/reload/cut positioning system is a pleasure to use tho overcoating with a thick matt laminate like floor graphic lamination can confuse the machine , but you can set up easily in manual mode.
We printed some 11mm x 8mm aids ribbon , laminated and then contour cut without any misregistration , and the ribbon was a complex shape.
Im waxing lyrical about this machine cos it is very very good and I think its going to take a huge chunk out of the market for those who can afford the asking price and enable the smaller sign shop to enter the highly profitable digital printing market.
(although we dont price on a x per sq meter basis – one of our jobs worked out to R32 000 per sq meter about gbp3 200)
We have had tons of folk coming to us who are very unhappy with the bigger commercial digital printers output and are prepared to pay a lot more to get the excellent output we are getting a reputation of producing)

Im not sure of the garment printing thing , to me it looks like you print on a sort of vinyl and iron on – I and my dealer have no info on that.
I can get sublimation inks for it , but that requires an ink flush and only the use of sublimation.
It would have been better to have a network card rather than USB.
albeit you can print directly from most design programs , it’s a lot better to export as EPS and use the RIP – configuring the windows driver for each job is fiddly.
We never use our machines for cut only jobs so I cant really tell you how it performs vs a truly dedicated cutter.

When you go see the dealer – take your own files – for raster have at least 100 pixels per inch of printed output. Let them demonstrate using YOUR files as well as theirs. Include some vector and raster images with high detail, fine skin tones , some odd colours and perhaps a photo you know or took.

Please tell me more about the garment thing , if your dealer knows more and what YOU thought of the capabilities.

[John Childs]

Thanks Rodney. Most informative.

[Mike Brown]

very very useful post – thank you…I’ve been taking a sideways glance at one of these…

more soon

mikethesign

[Mark Candlin]

David
Report back to us as I have had my eye on this machine for some time.
Iam hoping to have a demo myself shortly.
Ive seen some samples of the machine and the quality is superb.
I think this machine is going to shake up the industry a bit. You are going to see a lot more full colour elements on vehicle livery driving around after this machine comes out. Because of its pricing and cheap output costs you can offer your customers full colour for not a lot more money
than you would normally charge.

Looking forward to your thoughts after seeing the machine in action.

Regards
Mark

[David Shinn]

Hello everyone,

Well, I do feel just a little daunted reporting to a forum occupied by so many people with so much more experience than me! I am a commercial vehicle spray painter who does some signwork and lettering as an add on to our business. Anyway, here goes…..

I went to the Roland showroom to accompany my signwriter friend who was very enthusiastic about the Versa Camm. He is getting more and more requests for printed work on small vans and menu boards. The last demo we went to was for the PC600, which seemed to be too expensive to run and prone to banding.

The machine we saw was not actually the Versa Camm, but its bigger brother the Soljet (latest model). Apparently there are no Versa Camms in the UK yet, but it is just a smaller version of the Soljet.

It was very impressive. The quality of print was brilliant, both on banner vinyl and sticker vinyl and paper. The printed media passes over a heated area on the front of the machine, but it was still a little wet for a few minutes. The ink is loaded in four large cartridges at the side of the machine. Unfortunately we did not take any samples of our own to print, but I can say that the output is simply fantastic. There is no visible dot pattern and no banding. Once the machine has finished printing, the printhead disappears and the cutter performs at the same speed as any other modern plotter. Then another blade flies across and cuts off the entire piece of vinyl! The maximum print speed is 6m per hour, and consumables cost about £3 to £4 per sq m.

Well, my friend has ordered one for delivery in November. He has paid £10,350, which includes the machine, a spare set of inks, spare media, a Roland Pentium PC and setup with a days training at his workshop.

I am going to see how his setup performs and then I will consider purchasing one myself. My neighbour is a screenprinter, and he is also considering one!

Maintenance is not the same issue that it was with the PC600. The inks have been formulated to not damage the printhead, and it doesn’t block up after a period of inactivity loike some other inkjets.

I really feel that my skills as a reviewer are somewhat lacking, and I appologise for the lack of technical detail (ask me something about painting lorries!). The Versa Camm seems to be an excellent machine.

Regards,

David
(Leeds)

[Phill Fenton]

Thanks for taking the trouble to report back on this David. I am sure many others are reading this post with interest.

I have been told that the running costs of this machine are in the region of 1/16th of the costs of a Colorcamm. I also suspect that this machine is going to shake up the industry somewhat.

.. any one want to buy a used Colorcamm??

[Rodney Gold]

Thanks for the report – did the dealer mention garment printing at all?

I just want to add a little to my prior post , especially about inkjet type printing and larger formats in a signshop/graphics environment.

I do not know how Roland are going to sell another PC series printer with the Versacam around – our local agent has a brand new 600 on the floor and is pretty p’d off about it. Im also very surprised there are no Versacams in england as we in South Africa already have them.
Cos of the slower speed of printing of the versacam , the output is actually drier than the Soljets and cos its only a 4 colour machine , cost of print is a little less.

The cost of ink touted here In south Africa is R19 per sq meter IE GBP 2 per sq meter and that was based on a user printing 550 sq meters of print with one cartrige – and thats a 6 colour machine – I generally x that by 3-4 as I am a sceptical fellow and most of my stuff is done in iether artisitic or high quality mode (there are generally 4 modes , artisitic -1440×1440 , high quality 1440×720 , standard 720×720 and and high speed -720 x 360 , for banners there is a further high speed setting which is 450×360)

You can work out the price of PC600/60 prints , the ribbon is 8mm wide and 90m long , so one cart does 0.75m – we pay about GBP10 per cart (aftermarket) , so per m2 it works out to about GBP60 for a cmyk print.

I just tackled a job I thought could “only” be done on the the PC 60 (Or thermally) – a 32mm disc , red with gold print (The triumph bra logo and the word “international” inderneath – in 5 pt lettering!!) the lettering and logo had to show gold and I printed red on a coated mirror gold vinyl with better definition than the PC60 could get by printng gold on red.

The qty of these is 3000 and to do 300 of each , print and cut in the best quality mode took about 15 minutes – the whole run was completed in about 3 hrs , the total print area was 5 m2 – to do this using a gold cart in the pc would have cost about GPB150 excluding media and would have required 7 carts and most likely triple the time
All is NOT hunky dory however as the red printed takes on a metallic sheen and is “coloured” by the underlying gold thus one cannot get the same effect of a solid vinyl and if you use coated media , there is little scratch resistance
The converse is that the doming on this protects it and looks far more upmarket than doming on plain. To get decent ink density for this job one has to use quite a bit more inks , but at worst we are talking about GBP30 for the job.

In actual fact , the cost of media is more significant than inks with a versacam or inkjet printer. However the paradigm shift is this – with a PC your pricing model has a significant cost per sq meter component, with the versacam/soljet – the amount of work put into a design is the same if not more than a PC , but the cost of materials is far cheaper – thus one tends to price on a job basis or modify the pricing. Nice thing is , that if one WAS pricing at a high cost of consumables and getting business , one can drop the price slightly for inkjet (assuming one can do the same job with an inkjet) and make FAR higher profits
One job we did on very very small decals (flexible domed) , if worked back came to GBP 3200 per m2!!!!!

Thing is , the jump from a PC to a Versacam/larger format inkjet in terms of rethinking how one prints is not insignificant – albeit it might seem the same , output isnt.
If you are offering “print for pay” you need to learn a lot more about colour theory and how settings affect the print – in effect you have to become a “printer” – most of us using PC and edges etc are sign guys , not printers. (I think the edge guys have an “edge” on PC guys here;)
One also has to pay a little to colormatch your workflow and most likely have to get a decent laminator.
Not that the prints need lamination to survive , but as a print finishing station. If you intend to print on paper or coated media , you might have to mount and cold laminate or encapsulate. ALL vehicle graphics , no matter how they are done need lamination. Laminators can also be a nice profit centre by themselves.

Corel works with this machine but it’s not ideal thus budget on some other graphics package + it’s learning curve (photoshop 7 or so) i

You have to look beyond signage if you get a largish format digital inkjet printer , there are lots of other areas and you will limit yourself by thinking “signage” or “decals”
We work quite extensively for a local commercial photographer , printing sizes he can’t do or making collages or for that matter doing smaller stuff with variable info on each print. we print certificates , rosette inners, trophy and medal inserts , building plans , personal photographs , custom packaging , protoype labels , production labels , tamper proof labels , membrane displays , photoetching artwork , reproduce newspaper articless, wine labels (for smaller and specialised wineries) , details and windows for model builders , window displays , roll up media displays , POS shelf talkers , till displays , business cards, flags , fabrics etc.
Once we had done one big full colour banner for the local school , we had all the schools, clubs and businesses we deal with (we do a lot of awards and trophys) wanted their banners done that way too as well as wanting “welcome to” signs etc.
In essence , one becomes a “photoreprographic” house as well as a sign guy.

We do about GBP 500 a day with his machine (not the versacam – I don’t know whether it can do the volumes) if not more , now apart from adding work and capabilities we didnt have before , we service our customers better and they have less places to go to for all their needs.

The problem with NOT getting a machine like this , is that print shops ARE!!! and they will eat into your traditional customer base . A machine like this also enables you either to take on traditional screenprinters in certain areas or , if you have a screening operation , to make it WAY more flexible – you print far better definition than you can screen (however cant print on anything) and on smaller runs , costing and profits and fexibilty are way better than you can ever do as a screenprinter.
The trend in business is to order on demand and not keep huge inventories. there are a lot of areas where a machine like this will be suited to this business model.

Nice thing is that most of you already have a base of exsisting customers who most likely will use the services you offer – especially if you market the relatively low cost and great quality of larger format digital graphics
Yo9u cannot buy a machine like this and expect business to “roll” in , you have to spend some time doing a portfolio and market it agressively – it takes a little while and for the first month or so , expect at best to cover costs.
Funnily enough , as a signage business this was NOT our best addition in terms of growth , service , quality and profitability , Lasers were.

[Mike Brown]

Thanks David and Rodney for providing essential reading for so many of us who are looking at this model…

can I be really stupid here (and I’m probably repeating a previous post or two) but can someone quickly remind me what ‘coated’ and ‘un-coated’ media means? I’m getting old and I forget stuff! 😉 Does it relate to a particular type of vinyl or vinyl vs some other material?…

thank you

My wife and I are discussing getting one of these imminently – for us, it provides a reasonably priced answer to the whole price/outdoor life/smelly ink/width of media/heat-no heat/ink vs ribbon thing and based on the comments of those who have used it or seen it in operation, I’m pretty sure it’ll do what I need…and then some… 😎

Now, where did I stash all that wonga?…”Clare, don’t throw out that old matress!”

more soon

mikethesign

[Steve Broughton]

Quick Clare hide tht big pot in nextdoors garden he’ll never think to look there, steady boy you know what you’re like at shopping, all that impulse buying, you know what they say about a fool and his money, 😆 😆 be patient! 😉 😉

[Rodney Gold]

Solvent based printers sort of “melt” the inks into the substrates , however not all substrates can be printed on using solvents – the solvents act on specific material.
Thus stuff like polyester foils or some “non” vinyl applications get a special ink receptive coating.

Roland have had 2 inks out for the solvent printers – an Eco-solvent ink that is not a “true” solvent (tho has no toxic fumes and is not legislated agianst – the reason it was introduced is legislation was introduced against solvent inks and they wanted to comply) and a “mild-solvent” ink that is not as agressive as true solvents but needs the media heated to “take”.

The Versacam and the upgraded soljets have heater bars and use the latter ink which CAN print on uncoated media (as well as coated media) so you get the best of both worlds , solvent based printing without the ventilation hassles plus a range of media that can be printed on if coated.
Coated media is not that readily available and users bitched about being tied into a particular media – Roland marketed their proprietory “certified” media for the NON mild solvent inkjets and a lot of it was expensive , limited availability and narrowed down freedom of choice.
You can get sublimation inksets for these machines as well for dye sub garment printing , but you cant change inks willy as the piping etc will contain the old ink. to change to a sublimation inkset you need t flush the heads.
You dont have to worry about maintenance , these machines do it all for you.
There are some things you would have to do , if you use medias there are no profiles for – profiles are settings that have been configured for a particular media based on its ink absorbtion , white point colour , thickness , feed rate etc.
You would need to calibratre the machine for that particular media which can then be saved in the machine. Mostly this requires printing a few test patterns the machine has built in and getting the best output – we hardly do it.
Something I forgot to mention is that you must obviously make sure media is clean , ink cant print thru big pieces of dust etc. Ambient temperature also plays a part – very cold/moist days need the temp of the heater turned up – a matter of pressing a button.
What will be sort of confusing is the RIP – mostly generic settings work perfectly , however there are a huge amount of options one CAN set in it , it is a VERY powerful RIP.
I would also suggest getting a very potent computer (the processor) and a decent monitor with it all – some digital graphic files get VERY VERY big , sometimes up to 100mb or more – the faster the processor , the faster the RIP and you want to spend time printing , not waiting for a RIP to finish.

I would lease or buy it on HP rather than plonk down a wad of cash for it – view it as hiring another “worker”

[Phill Fenton]

Rodney.

Thank you very much for your detailed replies. You obviously know your stuff and I very much appreciate the advice you offer.

[John de la Roche]

Hi Everyone,

I hope that this posting is not seen as taking any commercial advantage and please advise me if this is so, but just for information, the new Roland VersaCamm SP300 will be available in the UK from early November.

It’s big brother the 54″ SC540EX is available now

Media of course is un-coated which is a distinct advantage in terms of cost and availabilty, I think someone has already described the print quality!!

We hope to have a garment film very soon for T-shirts.

Best Wishes
John de la Roche
( no advertising please )

[eddie cotter]

ime with phill on this one rodney! thanks for the very informative info,
it makes great reading, i will be getting a versa camm next year i hope!
eddie 😉