Versa Camm ProtectionPosted by druiddesigns on June 9, 2004 at 10:27 am
I have a Versa Camm and I have done a few vans now, the first one I did was for a friend he came back to me three weeks after I did the graphic on the van, I did not laminate to see how it held up as Roland said it would, now I have to replace all the signs,
What is the best method of protection, I was thinking clear vinyl or Frog juice,
All help is greatly appreciated.
Apart from that, the machine is good.
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 10:34 am
we frog juice our pc600 prints ….. *touch wood* they have held up really well to date ….. did a van almost 20 months ago with a full colour printed logo, he came back wants another van done & it still looks great 😀 you can spray or roller it on. It is best to apply something whether its frog juice or laminate, we dont let anything go out the door without being coated.
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 10:39 am
i would not let them out either without lamination ,but it was a test to see how they held up very very poor results,
Which is the best roller or spray frog juice
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 10:48 am
We use both methods to be honest, we have the cans at the ready & we have the mini rollers & pot also at the ready …. I suppose it depends on which method you prefer ….. I know some people don’t like applying with a roller?
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 11:52 am
There is a whole issue with frog juice and the inks lifting when using application tape on the Roland boards.
At the end of it all , a liquid lamination is more of a waste of time than anything else , firstly one has to wait at least 24 hrs for the inks to dry etc , then lay the graphic out and frog juisce it and thats gonna attract dust and take major space , you have to wait for THAT to dry and then if the graphic gets rolled or flexed , there is NO guarantee it wont flake etc.
A cold pressure laminator for a 30″ wide printer is NOT expensive , and neither is cold lam (we pay about 1.50 quid per sq meter of premium cast) and the durabilitiy of a cold lammed print is beyond question , not even acetone will mess it up.
Better still is a lam called micronex , its a hot melt on a carrier that is used with hot roller laminators at low enough temps NOT to affect the vinyl or glues.
It melts a thin flexible layer on the vinyl , BUT the big thing is you can print , cut and then micronex and weed and the lam breaks away clean at the cut line. Its about 60p per sq meter or less
There are 2 grades , normal and DURA – dura is chemical proof and certified for VERY harsh environments – made by GMP (most likely GBC or something else in the UK)
We tried all sorts of brush , spray and foam roller type “protectants” including a 2 part urethane , NOTHING works!!!!!!!!! You will only get into trouble with liquid lams IMHO , bite the bullet and get the right stuff 😉
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 11:56 am
dont get me going on frog juice my personal advice is dont use it on sol prints you will more than likly be doing them again. the real problem comes with application tape it weekens the ink bond as you remove it.
result looks good when done very bad 3 weeks latter.
i was told by the supplier it would be excelent to use alas it cost me a lot of time and effort & money – when i tackeled them over the problem the end result says on the tin do your own resurch & development.
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 12:30 pm
Never had any problems with frog juice we use it weekly & have done so for almost 2 years. But our prints are from a pc600 not a versacamm, we dont have to wait 24hrs for inks to dry etc the only thing we wait for is the frog juice but as we get everything ready the day before the job we spray last thing at night & its ready for us the next day.
Laminating is no doubt (by the sounds) the better solution for some prints.
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 12:40 pm
yes i have used it on pc 60 prints as required for a long time as you say not a problem but on the solvent type prints i ran into these problems whot really anoyed me was that i was told by the supplier it was excelent on my vinyl and inks when confronted with a problem told to do my own testing. if you look around simular to frog is available at £1 a tin. but on this job desided to use the recomended frog big mistake
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 1:23 pm
So a clear vinyl is the best for me at the moment as i do not have a laminator as of yet , i have been looking at a few,
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 1:58 pm
We have a product called DigiClear in Australia made by Viponds, I think it’s produced locally.
It’s a water based UV Clear coating that I spray on to EcoSol prints that I think are going to
get a bit of abuse (I can hear Rodney typing already) 😆 It works great I print, cut & spray
then weed when it’s dry. If it wasn’t raining so hard I’d go outside and see where it’s made.
To me $100 for a compressor was better than thousands for a laminator.
It might be worth a look to see if there is something similar over there.
When you said you had to replace all the signs on your friends van, what exactly happened to them.
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 4:47 pm
The van that I have to redo after three weeks exposed to the elements is flaking and peeling and the print is basically falling apart.
I used Metamark MD5 and Roland rip to suit. I knew that they would eventually need replacement, but three weeks?
In the summer with no rain and wind around.
I have clear vinyl and frog juice on route as I am writing.
It will not happen again.
The test is over. failed!
MemberJune 9, 2004 at 5:18 pm
HI something wrong here dont blame the printer or materials yet – there is a 8×4 foot print outside my unit on a trailer that has so far lasted 6 months and still fine it gets cleaned when the hose is out no fade etc –
on the doors of my car 5months still fine unlaminated with md5 and simular do not print to the edge cos it will pull a bit as the solvent evaperate all is cleaned with fairy liquid in water and a soft floor broom
on the car print a bit of mrscheen
for md 5 i am using the spvc-g profile set to about 125 total ink pesuming the versa ink levels are simular to the soljet ex
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 3:33 am
That sounds wierd. Is the Ink flaking off the vinyl or the vinyl flaking off the van ?
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 3:36 am
Hi again Richie,
If anything I find exposure to the sun helps my EcoSol prints to harden & stick better.
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 4:01 am
We use pledge spray furniture polish or spray ‘N cook for limited “liquid” protection , so go raid the larder 😉
Seriously , the spray n cook works marvellously!!
Heres an application I just refined.
Print reverse on clear normally (no double density prints) with crop marks without cutting.
Laminate WHITE atop the print (you can do it by hand for smaller areas) WITHOUT covering the crop marks (we cut away the vinyl atop the crop marks) then reload and cut thru the clear and white. Voila !!! you have a graphic that can be stuck INSIDE a window and read /seen properly (the white back coat)
I had hoped to print on the white and cut , IE have a decal where you can see the graphics on properly both inside and out , but the white, even tho I have used the thickest stuff , still shows the front print thru it – so no go.
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 4:24 am
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 5:07 am
“Spray n cook” is the dreadful tasting stuff you spray on your pan for frying instead of using oil, marge, butter etc.
MemberJune 10, 2004 at 5:55 am
I checked the Micronex laminate you mentioned and it’s only 8 microns!
Would that be a good enough thickness to protect prints from scuffing
when laminating printed vinyl for vans etc?
does it have UV inhibitors to further assist with the longevity of the inks?
Does using such a thin film present problems when going through the machine especially as it’s melted to the vinyl or substrate?
Does it not break?
And finally at what temp does the film melt?