Vectorizing

[Angelique Muller]

What software are you using?

[JonnyAnnett]

Hello,

I’m using Signblazer. I converted the image to EPS but it still says its a BMP. I believe I need to vectorize it.

Any idea on how to do this?

Thanks
Jonny

[Martin Pearson]

Don’t use signblazer so not sure if you can do it in that program but have a look through the toolbars for something along the lines of vectorising or auto tracing.

[JonnyAnnett]

Thanks Martin.

I’ve been using photoshop for the vectorising. I can’t find a section on Signblazer to convert the image.

Are there any other signblazer users that could tell me if it does have the facilities or not?

Thanks
Jonny

[Angelique Muller]

Is it signblazer hotshot or elements?
I don’t think you have the option in ‘elements’… in Hotshot there is an option under ‘image’ to vectorise

[JonnyAnnett]

It’s elements. I am looking for an upgrade soon though.
Thanks

[Angelique Muller]

quote JonnyAnnett:

It’s elements. I am looking for an upgrade soon though.
Thanks

yeah, you might have a problem then….. Elements does not give you a lot of options, Hotshot is a lot better.
You don’t have any other software? I have used CorelTrace for vectorising……

[JonnyAnnett]

Hi,

I had been using photoshop to vectorize them but it doesn’t want to play today. 🙁

Can I upgrade my current program to hotshot or do I need to buy the complete package?

Thanks

[Angelique Muller]

I am not sure… check out their website: http://www.colorchromefirst.com/index.htm

[Angelique Muller]

Can you not use the ‘vector wise’ link on the homepage?

[Brian Hays]

quote JonnyAnnett:

Hi,

I had been using photoshop to vectorize them but it doesn’t want to play today. 🙁

Can I upgrade my current program to hotshot or do I need to buy the complete package?

Thanks

Photoshop is a bitmap program. You cannot convert bitmaps to vectors in it. And if you import a vector into it, it will convert that to a bitmap too.

You say you have been using Photoshop to vectorise up until now, how exactly were you going about that? (?) 😮

[Mike Fear]

I would get a copy of Corel x3 – the vectorising tools in it are very good.

One note though – generally with vectorising in any software you wont get a very accurate vector version unless the BMP / JPEG is very high resolution and doesnt include too many colours – anything under 600dpi and you will probably need to do a lot of editing of the vector to get it looking good and accurate.

I often find it quicker to create the vector from scratch rather than vectorising a low res raster image.

The other method I use with some low res rasters ( this is useful if the only image you can get is a very small lo-res one ) is to redraw them by hand at around A4 size, then scan this at hi-res and vectorise that.

[Chris Lambe]

quote Brian Hays – Impact:

quote JonnyAnnett:

Hi,

I had been using photoshop to vectorize them but it doesn’t want to play today. 🙁

Can I upgrade my current program to hotshot or do I need to buy the complete package?

Thanks

Photoshop is a bitmap program. You cannot convert bitmaps to vectors in it. And if you import a vector into it, it will convert that to a bitmap too.

You say you have been using Photoshop to vectorise up until now, how exactly were you going about that? (?) 😮

You can vectorise in photoshop just make a selection go to the paths pallete and make the selection a path and export the paths to illustrator may turn out bad though depending on the quality of the bitmap your making a selection from…i use corel trace or adobe streamline

[Brian Hays]

I stand corrected if true. Sounds like it won’t be easy to get even a half decent result for somebody new to the concept though. Like you say probably much easier with Corel, or a dedicated Sign Making Program. Even the cheap ones like ArtCut have reasonable vetorising capabilities.

[Chris Lambe]

quote Brian Hays – Impact:

I stand corrected if true. Sounds like it won’t be easy to get even a half decent result for somebody new to the concept though. Like you say probably much easier with Corel, or a dedicated Sign Making Program. Even the cheap ones like ArtCut have reasonable vetorising capabilities.

Trust me it is true and can be done but the bitmap needs to be high resolution for a decent quality vector so if its not then a lot of node editing will be needed 😛

[M Brown]

Yes Brian, it is true.

Use the magic wand, make the selection. right click mouse button, then select Make Work Path, then export to AI. Its not brilliant. I wouldn’t use it. I use it when I have to make a contour cut line for a print and cut file and that’s it.

Do you use Photoshop Brian?

[Brian Hays]

quote lifesigns:

Yes Brian, it is true.

Use the magic wand, make the selection. right click mouse button, then select Make Work Path, then export to AI. Its not brilliant. I wouldn’t use it. I use it when I have to make a contour cut line for a print and cut file and that’s it.

Do you use Photoshop Brian?

Not a lot, only when resizing/resampling bitmaps. Don’t think it a very good program for a novice. And I shall rephrase what I said, it’s primarily a bitmap program hence the name :lol1:

So who else uses it to convert bitmaps into vectors? not many I would imagine? maybe looking to be proved wrong again :lol1:

[Angelique Muller]

quote :

So who else uses it to convert bitmaps into vectors? not many I would imagine? maybe looking to be proved wrong again :lol1:

I don’t… did not even know you could do that…. I use Corel Trace

[Jon Marshall]

You can use the pen tool in Photoshop to trace images. It’s also better for tricky cutouts when the lasso tool isn’t accurate enough.

I recently got an image vectored by a company in India to see what they were like. It was actually pretty good and cheap aswell due to the current dollar exchange rate:)

[M Brown]

As sign makers are we loosing the skills we once had to be able to do our own digitizing. It seams that to many new comers, not being nasty, just don’t know jack about sign making, materials and the software they use. Every one seams to be relying on software to do the work for them. this once used to be a skilled industry, but its becoming flooded by people who has bought a plotter off eBay.

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. my poor old dad god rest his sole would be turning in his grave, that is if he was buried.

Hands up who does their own digitizing or just scans and cuts? Or even get someone else to digitize it for them.

I’ve been digitizing logos, text since the good old Gerber 4bs with the naff software where I had to clean art work pixel by pixel. None of this bezier curve stuff.

I think I’m going on a bit now.

[Shane Drew]

quote lifesigns:

Hands up who does their own digitizing or just scans and cuts? Or even get someone else to digitize it for them.

I digitize all my own stuff, have been since 92 but only been really good at it since 96, and am paid by other sign shops to do theirs too. I find signwizard the easiest and quickest to do it in, but corel X3 is not too shabby either. Can’t use PS to save my life, which is a pity seeing as my hobby is photography.

Vectoring is not that hard but people seem to think it is so difficult.

When you start seeing images as a series of shapes (squares, circles, triangles and rectangles) the mystery disappears…

If any of my sign clients are reading this….. I’m exaggerating … OK 😳

[Mike Fear]

I do agree with lifesigns in a way, but saying that, when you are running a business you use the tools / methods that are most cost effective – if I know it will be quicker to scan an image and use software to vectorise rather than recreating the logo from scratch, then I’ll do that.

But – as you say, the important thing is having the ability to recreate a logo from scratch if needed.

I think a lot of the Ebay Pcut brigade are going to be very limited if all they can do is basic text layouts, or using what stock images are available on CD’s or the web – what happens when someone brings in a logo they cant find, or wants their business logo reproducing for a cut sign ?

I was lucky in one way as I was taught vectoring as part of my engineering degree, so could do that a long time before I started sign making, but if I were a new signmaker now then learning to vectorise would be one of the first things I would learn.

One example is a couple of decals I made recently that were taken from the design on the nose of a WW2 bomber – the only pic the customer had was a blurry B&W one, taken at a 45 degree angle. There would be no way any software would be able to vectorise it, and in the end it was easiest to redraw the logo by hand and work out what it would look like straight, then scan this in and use Corel to vectorise.

[M Brown]

glad someone agrees with me. I have been digitizing for a long time, since 1987 where the company I was working for bought a 4b, system 48+ and a PC based software called GS-II very basic. None of this oooo which one of the 1000’s of fonts shall I use. We always digitized everything, the boss wouldn’t fork out to pay spandex to hire a font. so i was the one to do it all.

we only used the system 48 to cut letters, and used the good old jigger to inlay into panel work.

I agree with you Shane, its easy to digitize. I also see the shapes that make up the image.

[JonnyAnnett]

Ok, Sorry to cause such a fuss!

I’m relatively new to this signwriting game myself without any real previous experience. I’m building up day by day and developing skills nearly everytime I click the mouse. I’m don’t think its all to do with having the latest most expensive cutter at the end of the day when a cheaper one will do the same job. I’m not that fussed though as I’ll be upgrading soon.

Thanks for your help, I’ve now purchased Corel and will be working with that for all the artwork.

@ lifesigns, I understand where you are coming from with relation to online sales and auctions like eBay and an influx of people starting out and not knowing any better than discs of the net. Compared to people who have been in business for years with experience in drawing and digitalizing. That is an area I am interested in and have started to work on. I am very techincally minded computer wise and have a great interested in software programs and the like so I will be playing around and asking questions. But I think its something to do with the way times are changing, everything is going to be done by computers in the not to distant future.

Anyway I’ve got my problem sorted. Corel seems a good package.

Thanks to you all.
Jonny

[Angelique Muller]

quote lifesigns:

As sign makers are we loosing the skills we once had to be able to do our own digitizing. It seams that to many new comers, not being nasty, just don’t know jack about sign making, materials and the software they use. Every one seams to be relying on software to do the work for them. this once used to be a skilled industry, but its becoming flooded by people who has bought a plotter off eBay.

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. my poor old dad god rest his sole would be turning in his grave, that is if he was buried.

Hands up who does their own digitizing or just scans and cuts? Or even get someone else to digitize it for them.

I’ve been digitizing logos, text since the good old Gerber 4bs with the naff software where I had to clean art work pixel by pixel. None of this bezier curve stuff.

I think I’m going on a bit now.

I am glad you feel better now you have got that of your chest. But as I feel your comments are directed to me (being new, having bought a plotter on ebay…. and yes it is a PCut) I will respond.

Is it possible you are holding onto some romantic ideas of the ‘good old days’? Don’t get me wrong… I totally admire good craftmanship but what is wrong with new technology/methods?
If ‘lifesigns’ has figured out an unconventional method of vectorising his artwork then I don’t see a problem. If it works for him/her and in the end of the day produces good signs? And if the work isn’t good, then it is his/her business that is suffering… not yours. Quality will prevail….
I think that a fresh look at a problem from a totally different perspective might provide new solutions that might not have been thought of by approaching it in the traditional way…. 😮

[Angelique Muller]

Sorry, I mend to say ‘Johnny’ instead of ‘lifesigns’… sorry 😳

[Andy Gorman]

My opinion – the ability to manually vectorise objects is a must have. If you can’t do it, then you are severely restricted in what you are able to produce. It’s not a criticism of anyone, but I liken it to a plumber who can’t solder. To me it’s a fundamental skill. Also, it’s not just about reproducing old artwork – vector manipulation is part of almost every original design I make.

[Peter Normington]

I’ll second Andy’s comments.

But at least if you are on the boards, then you are ready to learn, and what better place?

Peter

[Angelique Muller]

quote Andy Gorman:

My opinion – the ability to manually vectorise objects is a must have. If you can’t do it, then you are severely restricted in what you are able to produce. It’s not a criticism of anyone, but I liken it to a plumber who can’t solder. To me it’s a fundamental skill. Also, it’s not just about reproducing old artwork – vector manipulation is part of almost every original design I make.

I don’t disagree with you. But with regards to your plumber comparison: I think that there are a lot of plumbers out there who are delighted with the compression fittings and plastic pipes and that indeed can’t solder anymore….

[Angelique Muller]

quote Peter Normington:

I’ll second Andy’s comments.

But at least if you are on the boards, then you are ready to learn, and what better place?

Peter

Thank you Peter, that is the reason I joined… 😀

[Andy Gorman]

You wouldn’t let them do your plumbing though, would you? 😉 I wouldn’t.

[Graeme Harrold]

Totally agree with the manual vectorising. Not only do I end up with a sharp vector with fewer nodes, I also have control over the order image is reproduced. I also combine paths thus allowing the cutter to remain in contact with the work for longer. This I find essential in speeding up the reproduction of engraved logos. Every time the tool lifts it costs time.

I have used Corel trace, however I either get a blocky vector or too many nodes.

Its a must have skill…………

[Angelique Muller]

quote Andy Gorman:

You wouldn’t let them do your plumbing though, would you? 😉 I wouldn’t.

Well… although our plumber was ‘old school’ and indeed can solder, he did not use the old technique anywhere in our our house (and he was the one telling me about ‘all these new guys that can’t solder’…..)

So back to vectorising. -In my humble opinion- I think that without the proper background/technique you could still do a reasonably good job… but you are limited in your work as Mike Fear points out…..

[Simon Strom]

I’m just glad I don’t have to use a Rapidograph on cold press board, cut Ruby lith/Amberlith, do PMT slicks nor frisket anymore. 😀 🙂 😛 😎

[Shane Drew]

Angelique, don’t take it personally.

Plenty of newbie ebay pcut users here. some have no idea how to get a job done, and some, like you, are prepared to learn. The obvious sign of who’s fairly serious and who’s not really ‘sure’ is that they pay for membership. Its a great resource, and we all have to learn somewhere.

The observation by lifesigns is not a new topic here, its been discussed many times before, and likely will be discussed again down the line.

End of the day, the quality of anyones work will the determining factor if they have/keep customers or not.

Like anything in this world, if you keep going forward, you can only get better. Experience is not something you can read about or buy.

[Angelique Muller]

quote Shane Drew:

Angelique, don’t take it personally.

Plenty of newbie ebay pcut users here. some have no idea how to get a job done, and some, like you, are prepared to learn. The obvious sign of who’s fairly serious and who’s not really ‘sure’ is that they pay for membership. Its a great resource, and we all have to learn somewhere.

The observation by lifesigns is not a new topic here, its been discussed many times before, and likely will be discussed again down the line.

End of the day, the quality of anyones work will the determining factor if they have/keep customers or not.

Like anything in this world, if you keep going forward, you can only get better. Experience is not something you can read about or buy.

Such wise words Shane 😀 And thank you…. I wasn’t really taking it personal, but there’s nothing like a good old discussion every now and then …….it beats watching ‘crappy’ tv!!!

:lol1:

[Shane Drew]

quote Angelique Muller:

…….it beats watching ‘crappy’ tv!!!

:lol1:

you’re not wrong 😛

[Mike Fear]

My comments also weren’t really bashing people with PCuts etc… – just the ones who think that being a signmaker just involves buying a Pcut, a knockoff copy of Flexi and a couple of CD-Roms of vectors 😀

[ From now on any mention of Pcutters will refer directly to these sort of people, not just someone who owns a Pcut ! ]

As others mentioned, if ALL someone can do is simple bog standard stuff from existing vectors, they are going to be very limited in how their business can grow – after all, how do you compete when anyone can set up in competition with you doing exactly the same graphics ?, and there’s always someone who thinks the way to succeed in business is to undercut everyone and make pennies on each job.

The worst feeling is having a customer with money ask you to do a job, and you have to turn them away because you don’t have the ability to do it.

I have a feeling that an awful lot of the lazy Pcutters will only ever make a few stickers as a sideline, and have to go and get a day job, whereas those who have the ability will develop a long lasting business.

[Gavin MacMillan]

What are we actually talking about here? I’m not sure what this is about. We use the software to vectorise, always signlab. If required images will be traced by hand, scanned and then digitised. Is this proper digitising or am I missing something? With these techniques we have recreated any but of artwork ever asked of us. Recently a very complex etched peice of glass that a guy broke while cutting the grass has to be redone in etch vinyl for the big fancy house. A very complex floral image that had to be simplified after vectorising to allow the plotter to cut it.

Basically everyone can do this, it’s just a case of spending the time on it. I was amased when I realised that there were companies like vectorwise, but there must be a market for it. We should start up as well, the guy that does it most in here is a wiz… send your crappy images to …….

[Graeme Harrold]

I think the whole point is the skill set required to vectorise an image from scratch whether you " hand trace, scan and vectorise", redraw the image or use vectorising software. Those that can do the first two methods without the need for "auto trace" have a far greater range of skills to offer clients. Auto trace relies on a good image in to get a good vector our. A crappy Jpeg will need the skill and judgment to reproduce manually at a decent quality, hence the need for the likes of Vectorwise for those that either don’t have the time (or too lazy) or the necessary ability to get good results.

From my perspective being able to vectorise any image is an invaluable skill for an engraver (I need single crisp lines), and probably for any other user of vector images.

[Gavin MacMillan]

Ok, I’m getting closer to understanding, but hand draw, scan, then what? We hand draw scan then use the auto trace on that. Is that different? I don’t really follow about the greater level of skill to offer, we can get any image vectorised that we require. What extra do other people do?

G (not not fully following)

[Graeme Harrold]

Ive seen demos given at for example Trophex where an image is scanned and auto traced then output onto a product in under 7 minutes. From a distance it dosent look too bad… but under closer inspection curves are a series of straight lines, lines missed where the graphic has several converging lines etc. In other words OK for a quick sale on a small item. I now have a graphic library drawn by myself that is scaleable to any size without highlighting the inadequacies of "auto trace" because I have taken the time to learn to use Corel Draw (doesn’t matter what version as the principles are the same). Each graphic is drawn with the a) the output standard optimised and b) the graphic drawn in a logical manner that speeds up the cutting of the design, something auto trace does not do.

My method uses a second layer on Corel and hand trace electronically. I can now hand trace a graphic quicker than auto trace followed by editing nodes and I get it the way I want it.

[Gavin MacMillan]

Ok I think I’m with you now. We would never expect the auto trace to give the final output, and we always make sure the images are of a high enough standard for the job. We wouldn’t spend more time than needed for the scale it’s going to be, but if the customer comes back wanting the same thing 5x the size then we would not go ahead till the file is ready. As we don’t engrave some of the other considerations don’t really apply.

[Shane Drew]

Gavin, I don’t ‘waste time’ hand drawing 1st, I just do a high res scan, then vector from scratch. Never been one to accept what auto trace comes up with. I’m not saying what you do is wrong, I’m just saying auto trace to me gives an average result. Basically that is what auto trace is designed for. The mathematical formula to do an auto trace uses ‘averages’ to get the best result of the scan, under the circumstances it is presented. It does not have the ability to decide if the trace ‘looks right’ rather, it just works on different colour levels, and thats not always the best result.

I find vectorising from scratch will always produce a better job, every time. Then, I know the job is right, and I don’t have to worry about lines being too thick or thin, especially when I’m often doing very large scale stuff on the sides of a bus. When something is not quite right on a postage stamp graphic, it is really wrong on the side of a bus :lol1:

[Warren Beard]

I always scan it in and redraw from scratch, I have never gotten a good result from auto trace and to clean it up takes just as long to vectorise from scratch.

My background is in reprographics and accuracy was most important.

I must admit though sometimes it is very time consuming and would prefer to pay someone to do it for me. 😳 (but never have yet)

cheers

Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I agree with everything lifesigns said…oh for the good old days when signwriting wasn’t seen as a "game" but as a skill.
I do think our industry has been devalued by people with eBay plotters.
I also miss my Rapidograph, dried up in its case in a drawer lo these past 20 years.

That being said, when I have to vectorise I take the image, tape a piece of regular white (A4?) over it onto a window, and draw over it as best as I can with a fine-tip marker. You could also use a light table but I don’t have one.
I put it into my scanner and scan as a black and white drawing, then import it into my GA and raster to vector. Then I clean up any spare nodes as best as I can. Sometimes I will use the tools in the program to re-draw circles or squares, etc.
It’s really not that hard once you figure out how.
Be sure to charge for the service, however, your hourly rate usually.
Love….Jill

[Gavin MacMillan]

I thought I was understanding but Shane you’ve made me wonder. We don’t use the auto trace as the final output. So where is the difference from using that as a starting point to starting from scratch? We still tweak nodes till it’s ready to go.

[Shane Drew]

quote Gavin MacMillan:

I thought I was understanding but Shane you’ve made me wonder. We don’t use the auto trace as the final output. So where is the difference from using that as a starting point to starting from scratch? We still tweak nodes till it’s ready to go.

I find vectoring from scratch saves the time, but you can do as you suggest. I didn’t see your last post as I was typing at the time.

I was under the impression that you were satisfied with the auto trace. I see by your last post that you clarified that, sorry mate 😳

[Gavin MacMillan]

🙂 No worries! I caught this thread last night and was intrigued. Funny to see what other people do when your so used to doing it your own way!

G

[Andrew Bennett]

quote Shane Drew:

If any of my sign clients are reading this….. I’m exaggerating … OK 😳

I’m glad I caught this thread and this post in particular 😀

[Angelique Muller]

quote Jillbeans:

I agree with everything lifesigns said…oh for the good old days when signwriting wasn’t seen as a “game” but as a skill.
I do think our industry has been devalued by people with eBay plotters.
I also miss my Rapidograph, dried up in its case in a drawer lo these past 20 years.

That being said, when I have to vectorise I take the image, tape a piece of regular white (A4?) over it onto a window, and draw over it as best as I can with a fine-tip marker. You could also use a light table but I don’t have one.
I put it into my scanner and scan as a black and white drawing, then import it into my GA and raster to vector. Then I clean up any spare nodes as best as I can. Sometimes I will use the tools in the program to re-draw circles or squares, etc.
It’s really not that hard once you figure out how.
Be sure to charge for the service, however, your hourly rate usually.
Love….Jill

One might call you a ‘Luddite’?!? 😉
I mean that in the nicest way: it’s coming from a place called jealousy…… you have the skills that I would like to have…. 😀

[Phill Fenton]

So isn’t anyone going to explain to us how to do a solder joint 😕

[Martin Pearson]

What sort of solder joint would you like Phill?

I’m qualified as a plumber, well I was about 15 years ago. :lol1:

[Phill Fenton]

Was that so that you could fix those leaks on them submarines you used to sail about in :lol1:

[Martin Pearson]

Phill, I did do a bit of lead soldering when I had to learn pipe fitting but I also did a City & Guilds course on Domestic Heating & Plumbing when I left the Navy. Plumbers used to do the lead flashings on roofs as well as fix lead pipes so I was told, had to do all that as well but it probably isn’t taught anymore.

[JonnyAnnett]

quote Mike Fear:

My comments also weren’t really bashing people with PCuts etc… – just the ones who think that being a signmaker just involves buying a Pcut, a knockoff copy of Flexi and a couple of CD-Roms of vectors 😀

[ From now on any mention of Pcutters will refer directly to these sort of people, not just someone who owns a Pcut ! ]

Hi mate.

Are you reffering to me with the above? I started out my own business in signwriting. I phoned about suppliers and was told £8k was the sort of money to spend on a decent Roland machine. I simply don’t have that sort of money to fork out at the minute. I picked up a PCut to get started with on ebay. I admit that. It’s does a fine job but once I get set-up and get a good few jobs going through and some money back I will then invest in a Roland machine.

I’m sure you can’t expect everyone to go out and buy a £8K cutter straight away. I know that it is hard work and I am willing to learn. Just for the record I have not paid up for membership yet as I have only joined a few days ago.

I hadn’t any experience of working with anyone else before setting up. I wanted to do it my way. I was unsure on some things so I found this website and thought I’d ask some questions. The majority of people seem happy to help out. Which I am very grateful for.

I think people don’t like competition and thats what the problem is. I have nothing against people who have been in business for years. I have a lot of respect for some of you guys. Thanks to the people who have helped me resolve this matter. As I have already said I have purchased Corel now.

Although if you are aiming the above post at me I would like to know.

[Martin Pearson]

JonnyAnnett, Angelique and anyone else that uses a pcut machine, I don’t believe Mikes comments were aimed at any one in particular and they weren’t aimed at people just because they bought a cheaper plotter.

If you read through some of the posts on the boards you will quite often see posts by people who don’t introduce themselves and ask questions about how to get their ebay cutter working with flexi or signlab, most of these people have pirate copies of the software and don’t know how to set it up and use it because they didn’t get the tutorials etc that come with the proper package. I say most because I am sure there are probably some people who buy the software but why spend £300 on a plotter and then thousands on software. These people normally make a couple of posts and you never see them again.

We all understand that times have changed in every industry, not just signmaking and a lot of people don’t want to get themselves into debt starting a business, I wish I hadn’t now, some people like yourselves get involved with the boards, ask questions and make comments where you can because you want to learn and make a proper business out of it for yourselves so I am quite sure Mikes comments aren’t aimed at you personally.

[Brian Hays]

quote JonnyAnnett:

quote Mike Fear:

My comments also weren’t really bashing people with PCuts etc… – just the ones who think that being a signmaker just involves buying a Pcut, a knockoff copy of Flexi and a couple of CD-Roms of vectors 😀

[ From now on any mention of Pcutters will refer directly to these sort of people, not just someone who owns a Pcut ! ]

Hi mate.

Are you reffering to me with the above? I started out my own business in signwriting. I phoned about suppliers and was told £8k was the sort of money to spend on a decent Roland machine. I simply don’t have that sort of money to fork out at the minute. I picked up a PCut to get started with on ebay. I admit that. It’s does a fine job but once I get set-up and get a good few jobs going through and some money back I will then invest in a Roland machine.

I’m sure you can’t expect everyone to go out and buy a £8K cutter straight away. I know that it is hard work and I am willing to learn. Just for the record I have not paid up for membership yet as I have only joined a few days ago.

I hadn’t any experience of working with anyone else before setting up. I wanted to do it my way. I was unsure on some things so I found this website and thought I’d ask some questions. The majority of people seem happy to help out. Which I am very grateful for.

I think people don’t like competition and thats what the problem is. I have nothing against people who have been in business for years. I have a lot of respect for some of you guys. Thanks to the people who have helped me resolve this matter. As I have already said I have purchased Corel now.

Although if you are aiming the above post at me I would like to know.

What cutter were they quoting £8000 for? 😮 Printer/Cutter maybe?

[Andrew Ritchie]

quote Gavin MacMillan:

Basically everyone can do this, it’s just a case of spending the time on it. I was amased when I realised that there were companies like vectorwise, but there must be a market for it. We should start up as well, the guy that does it most in here is a wiz… send your crappy images to …….

Interesting read….

I learned two ways to vectorise which I wont go into 😛 but not everyone has the time nor inclination to sit and digitise when someone is taking a small fee to do so. Like Shane I never redraw a image it is done from scratch, any vector I do can be sat on top of the artwork sent and be a 1:1 copy of said artwork, it can be boring, bit the end result of it is worth it lol.

There aren’t many tutorials on the subject and I think its down to the amount of different software’s and techniques that can be used to achieve a finished vector file.

If you have the time and start off easy "anyone" can build up to a decent level of graphic reproduction.

Over the years I have built up to a decent speed which I can navigate around the software I use, this can be seen from the video’s on the semi basic vector and a bit on the Impact product test.

I do a lot of work for a lot of members on the boards who I know can vector themselves but at the end of the day they can be prepping a van, designing some nice signage etc whilst I’m working on a crest or intricate file. So I think there is a huge demand within the industry for this type of thing.

Andy 😎

[Peter Normington]

Well said Andrew,
I can vector, but when time is at a premium, no shame in subbing out, just as I can make my own frames, trays and suchlike, but most often I buy in,
the peeps who specialise are set up for it and are quicker than I am, so in the end, better to use my time in the most cost effective way

Peter

[Richard Urquhart]

Peter I agree 100% only last week I ask Andrew to re draw a file for us which not only saved me lots of time but was also much more accurate then I could have done, why spent hours on something when you can have it done for such a small cost
thanks Andrew
Rich

[Jon Marshall]

quote Mike Fear:

.

I have a feeling that an awful lot of the lazy Pcutters will only ever make a few stickers as a sideline, and have to go and get a day job, whereas those who have the ability will develop a long lasting business.

Not to mention that anyone who is serious about starting a business would have no problem spending £1500 on a proper machine.

[Peter Normington]

quote jonm01:

quote Mike Fear:

.

I have a feeling that an awful lot of the lazy Pcutters will only ever make a few stickers as a sideline, and have to go and get a day job, whereas those who have the ability will develop a long lasting business.

Not to mention that anyone who is serious about starting a business would have no problem spending £1500 on a proper machine.

only if you have the funds, an £1500 is OTT anyway.
If you are serious you will buy what you can afford to make it work.

a paint brush only cost a few quid, but with practice, and effort, a living can be made, bad workmen blame their tools,

Peter

[John Childs]

I sometimes have to wonder about the commitment of those who aren’t prepared to find the money for reasonable kit.

When I started, my first cutter cost £5750 and the computer something similar. All in all I had to find about twenty grand. In today’s values that is probably about £40k, so there was no question of dipping my toes in the water to see if I could make some easy money. I HAD to make it work to repay the loans.

Today, anybody can start up with reasonably professional kit without even having to have a painful interview with their bank manger. It can be done without stretching the limits of a credit card very far.

Oh yeah, the point of this thread……..

I had to learn to vectorise very quickly. Witihn days, if not hours. Even my first clients wanted logos on their vans. Plain text wouldn’t cut it even then. I don’t understand how anybody can do work without being able to vectorise.

[Gavin MacMillan]

My comments above were not really about people choosing not to vectorise their own images for time reasons, we all do different things at different times due to time constraints, we will buy stuff in that we can make when time is tight! Or if it’s a particularly complex image that you just don’t have the time for. I honestly didn’t know that such a service as vectorwise exsisted so I was pretty surprised when I realised, maybe we wouldn’t have these skills if we had known from the start, but we have always had to do all our own stuff and therefore have the ability to get anything ready we need.