UV Lightbar from Colorific now installed on my machine!

[Alex Crosbie]

Is there any print speed benefit with the light bar conversion?

Cheers

Alex

[Fabrice Menard]

hello Robert, which materials did you already print on?

Do you use standard solvent printable material or some that are especially said as UV print compatible?

[Simon Worrall]

I would be interested to see an actual picture of your conversion Rob

[Robert Lambie]

quote alexc40:

Is there any print speed benefit with the light bar conversion?

Cheers

Alex

Alex:
I would say no Alex, I think the speeds are pretty much the same as before if I am honest.
I actually forgot to ask Andrew this for his view on that but i think if there was any print speeds issues at all he would have been complaining to me by now as we are very busy. 😀

————————————————–

quote Fabrice Menard:

hello Robert, which materials did you already print on?

Do you use standard solvent printable material or some that are especially said as UV print compatible?

Fabrice:
We are printing onto exactly the same media as we always have. this includes…

Oracal, Metamark, 3M and Avery Vinyl.
Neschen wallpaper
Rollup stand media (forget the name)
a couple of banner materials. think they are Grafityp or Detec from Paperlinx.

this is all we have run through it so far and without a hint of problem.

————————————————–

quote Simon Worrall:

I would be interested to see an actual picture of your conversion Rob

Simon:
Please see the attched picture of our 10 year Old Printer converted to UV Lightbar Inks.

sorry the pictures not the best, took it on my phone. shakey hand and all that! 😀

as you can see it looks just the same as the picture you see in my initial post with the exception of the take-up roll visible in my picture and not in theirs.

the media being printed on in the picture is Neschen wallpaper

hope this helps…

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[Vic Adair]

Thanks Rob for the explaination of what the ‘lightbar’ was. Keep seeing it mentioned on the threads and didnt have a clue.

It looks quite a straight forward conversion from solvent to UV inks.

Is there a price difference in using the UV inks compared to solvent ink?

[Robert Lambie]

quote Vic Adair:

Is there a price difference in using the UV inks compared to solvent ink?

Vic:

I would say one of the most surprising things Andrew has commented on is the distance the UV ink goes in comparison to the Solvent.

The UV ink comes in 440ml carts and are slightly more expensive to buy than the Solvent carts of same volume. however, we are seeing a significant amount more printing being done using the UV in comparison to the Solvent.

The following is approximate print output of what Andrew got out of his first set of UV ink.
When i say first set, he has actually only replaced "two colours," all the others colours are still running on their "first cart"

* Wallpaper – 200 metres x 1000mm
* Digital vinyl – 200 metres x 1360mm
* Reflective vinyl – 16 metres x 1260mm
* 25 metres of banner x 1360mm wide
Also a large array of one of jobs…

Sorry I am not giving pound for pound type comparison replies here, but Hope this helps give you/everyone a good understanding from a real life sign business’s findings on doing one of these conversions as opposed to "biased opinions" sales pitches using profile perfect images,and unacceptable quality output as general running time speeds.

on the whole, we are very happy with the volume of print we are putting out in comparison to our solvent ink.
and for the record… the solvent ink we used previous to the UV was from the "same supplier".

.

[Richard Daniel]

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to put this up. – We’re planning on going to the sign show next week and taking a look.

Did you have to do anything with the rip software? – New rip/ change of profiles etc?

[Adrian Hewson]

HI Rob watching your comments with interest like the one about how far the uv ink goes as the cost of the ink has certainly always put me off. Any contacts that I can use to try and get some comparison, we have four roland/grenadiers and could easily convert one as the waiting time is a pain, might have to come to sign uk

[Robert Walker]

I’m also watching with great interest,
My only concern is I’ve had conflicting information regarding the lightbar uv setup when it comes to wrap media,

If anyone has tried or any other info on this it would help defenateley help me decide

[Simon Worrall]

Same question as Robert. 🙂
Also, is the UV printed surface tougher than solvent? ie will it last longer if unlaminated?

Thanks for the pic. I am amazed by how straightforward it seems to be.
I would have thought the whole internal gubbins would need replacing – heads, pipes, filters .
This kit seems to be almost a bolt on addition!
Any theories as to why the ink would go further?
Do you get a different set of profiles to go with the new kit which would change the ink usage?
So many questions!

[Robert Lambie]

quote Richard Daniel:Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to put this up. – We’re planning on going to the sign show next week and taking a look.

Did you have to do anything with the rip software? – New rip/ change of profiles etc?

Richard & Simon
No the RIP software wasnt changed, it is Roland Versaworks

Before I had the UV Lightbar installed, they asked me to send them a list of the most common media we use.
They already had a list of profiles to provide of course, but any they didn’t have. they asked for a couple of metres of vinyl to be sent prior to installation. they then profiled them for us and on the day of installation. installed the the profiles during the set-up.

additionally, Like most profiles, i would imagine there will be some sort of generic profiles will work on most media too. by that i know we run one vinyl profile for our solvent machines on most vinyls and works great.

Robert,
I have various tests to do still when it comes to wrapping.
However, At this point I would have to say do not use UV ink for wrapping.

General vehicle graphics you will not have any issues with flat and gradual curved vinyl applications. but stretching into recesses and convex curves I would not advise on.

We have already done piles of van graphics and stickers without a single issue. this is because we know the limits and as long as you do too, i don’t see a problem.
Remember, flat and gradual curved only applications is exactly the same stipulations of all calendered vinyl films too to prevent fail of the media. I would advise same on the ink, but for different reasons which I will elaborate on a bit more once ive done more tests.

Adrian
Maybe best calling Colorific and asking to speak to Justin. If you have 4 grenadiers Adrian, i recon it is well worth trying the conversion running alongside the others. i think you would be surprised!
I am at Sign & Digital the three days too Adrian, if your down pop by wotherspoons on day two around lunch time. think a bunch of the others will be there for a few drinks too.

Simon
I have just done a video showing the durability comparisons based on:

* Latex Ink
* Solvent Ink
* UV Ink

The video should have been loaded here tonight. but i stuffed up the audio when editing it. but will still load it and just put some elevator background music over it. I will be in Birmingham the next few days, so will load it on Friday.
In short, YES, its more durable.

For anyone attending Sign & Digital UK exhibition this week. dont just take my word for it… take a little bottle of:
Isopropynol alcohol, tar & glue remover or even ink thinner… go onto the colorific stand and give the prints a good old rub down with the chemicals.
scratch with your nail or a coin… see for yourself “how it compares to other inks on other machines” at the show…

Take pictures or video with your phones and post your finds here if you get the chance. I would be interested in how your own tests compare to my video test which ill load too when i get back.
only difference i would see is my prints were left 24 hrs to make the whole comparison with latex and solvent more fair.
I think if you did, it would only add to the value of a thread like this running for others considering going this routes reference.

.

[Adrian Hewson]

Hi Rob thanks for the info very useful but if you cant use UV for vehicles apart from flat panels I cant see the point in the print being ready instantly, and therefore cant see the point of the conversion ?

[Robert Lambie]

Adrian

No, I am saying "you can" use it and "i do" use it for vehicles right now. i just would not advise on it purposely being bought for "vehicle wrapping" as an alternative to the likes of a latex printer.

Calendered vinyl film for vehicle graphics has exactly the same limitation as the ink, but for different reasons. yet it is successfully used on millions of vehicles every day!

Cast wrapping film is a different beast altogether though…

once you see the ink durability video i did, it will put a new spin on things and is based on…
UV -v- Solvent
UV -v- Latex

[John Singh]

Thanks for explaining about the lightbar
I had no idea what is was

I remember being hit by a heavy bar once but other than that!

[Adrian Hewson]

LOL John think I was hit by metal bar but cant remember it

[Lorraine Clinch]

For those of you who went to SDUK this week, and had a look, what did you all think of the set-up, print quality, durability etc of the Grenadier and light bar that Colorific were displaying? Wasn’t there myself to assess, so interested in any comments.

Lorraine

[Adrian Hewson]

Good comment Lorraine I couldn’t make it either too busy

[Andrew Blackett]

I looked at it whilst I was there, looking at it on the re-640 I was really impressed with the quality.

Definately seemed to do exactly what it’s claiming to.

ROB – do you find it ok on the thicker materials like frontlit and stay flat banner?

Andy

[Steff Davison]

I went specifically to see this set up. I looked at the Mimaki 400suv machine previously, which is £18k ish (4 colour) the machine set up by colourific was a grenadier 6 colour machine at a fraction of the price of the Mimaki. As I dont want to use finance to purchase equipment the price of the Mimaki was too much money for me at the moment. The colourific however is very affordable in comparison (2nd user)
The samples looked impressive. As I produce interior work its gone on my " next piece of equipment " list.

[John Thomson]

I have to say the prints coming off the Colourific converted machines could not be faulted.

John

[Lorraine Clinch]

I was asking because I called Colorific yesterday to get a price for conversion, and ended up purchasing the Grenadier that they had at the show! It is being installed next week, and I cannot wait! No more laminating, no more dust problems 😳
Now need to get my Versacamm sold to help pay for it 🙄

I am so pleased that the comments have been positive, could have been the other way :lol1:

Lorraine

[Adrian Hewson]

Go yourself Lorraine look forward to your comments re ongoing results

Couldn’t make it , too busy but got a deal on 8pcs HP 1050c thedefinitive A0 poster printer and we print a lot of posters

[David Rowland]

I got an AGFA UV and we did run all vinyls with vehicles and white vinyls on it for several months, however found that it wasn’t working for us and had to purchase the latex printer to get us out of a mess. The ink is on the surface and locked to the surface with UV light, so the light have to be the right frequency and power to get though and set of the ink. The ink has to have some stretchly like feel to it for vinyl. Sadly the AGFA Ink just didn’t cope at all, we found the ink weakens the structure of vinyl and u could tear it.

If the Lightbar results with the ink, will it tear on solids?
Will it crack if folded in half?
is there much ‘bump’ effect on the ink?

I know all these questions have been on your mind for a few years robert when we have talked about UV so be interesting if Lightbar has cracked it as my experience with Vinyl and UV so far has been to give it a miss, cost us a lot of money to correct all the jobs we put out there.

[Adrian Hewson]

Ha Ha Dave still got an Agfa we aint got ours, we scrapped our £60K machine as it was unusable, watching the calorific with interest but already I keep going round my solvent printers smiling and giving them a pat on the back, onwards and upwards you explorers. We are happy in the knowledge in 6 months the ink is till exactly where we put it and vibrant as ever Roland/Uniform the ink that history was written on.

[Lorraine Clinch]

Well the new machine was installed today, thanks to Nick (I think that’s correct, I apologise if not, had a lot going on!) and Jason.

Dave, I did a ‘scrunch, scrape, scratch and vigorous IPA rub’ check, and found that the ink did not move one iota. Screwed the vinyl up, off the backing paper, so was stuck to itself, and pulled it out again, and it was fine. No cracking or failure that I could see, but I will continue to test it over the next few weeks.

Thee is a little lump effect on the surface, but no more than I get with Eco Solvent inks from the Versacamm, and I stretched a small area and it didn’t break.

Obviously I am going to have to put it all through its paces, and will give feed-back if interested. It has been a long day today, need to have a play over the next few days, as it is a different machine to the one I have become used to., but I am looking forward to seeing how I get on.

Lorraine

[Adrian Hewson]

Do me a favour Lorraine, don’t hit, it scratch don anything, just put it on a board that faces south and I will ask you to scratch it in 3-6 months ???????????

[Lorraine Clinch]

Will do Adrian, and take photo’s!

Lorraine 😎

[Lorraine Clinch]

As a ps Adrian, these inks have a small amount of solvent in, which I am told helps the ink bite in initially, then out gasses under the UV lamp, which is, I assume, why they last longer / are better than the original UV inks?

Lorraine

[Unknown Member]

I’m really excited by the UV bar….

I think my machine the XR640 is probably a bit new for the UV conversion….

I’m on the hunt for a used XC540 or Soljet 2 that I can covert over.

I’m hearing nothing but good things about this bad-boy bar!

[Lorraine Clinch]

Last week I was printing posters to blue-backed paper, and they took an age to dry, totally stuck to themselves on the take-up, and ruined 3 metres of print.
Today I am printing the same job, in a 12.5 metre run, onto the take-up, and they are bone dry as they emerge from under the Lightbar. I am VERY impressed so far.
I have never dared to do a long run before, but am feeling quietly confident now.
As there are only a few UV profiles for Versaworks at present, I did try using the normal GPPM profile for matt paper, but the colours were not great, so I trialled the UV ‘light banner’, assuming this would be for matt material, and the colours are good, perhaps not quite so vibrant as off the Versacamm, but then there was a heck of a lot of ink on those posters to take so long to dry off (overnight).

Next job – vinyl!

Lorraine

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[Unknown Member]

Hi Lorraine,

What machine have you had this fitted too?

[Andrew Blackett]

So pleased to hear a real life success story Lorraine, we’ve placed our order this afternoon for the RE640 conversion. Just waiting for the installation date.

The lads were printing metres and metres of metamark vinyl on your machine at the show and it looked beautiful (I’ve got some samples on my desk too!) I seriously dont think you’ll have any problems at all.

Andy

quote Lorraine Clinch:

Last week I was printing posters to blue-backed paper, and they took an age to dry, totally stuck to themselves on the take-up, and ruined 3 metres of print.
Today I am printing the same job, in a 12.5 metre run, onto the take-up, and they are bone dry as they emerge from under the Lightbar. I am VERY impressed so far.
I have never dared to do a long run before, but am feeling quietly confident now.
As there are only a few UV profiles for Versaworks at present, I did try using the normal GPPM profile for matt paper, but the colours were not great, so I trialled the UV ‘light banner’, assuming this would be for matt material, and the colours are good, perhaps not quite so vibrant as off the Versacamm, but then there was a heck of a lot of ink on those posters to take so long to dry off (overnight).

Next job – vinyl!

Lorraine

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Harpreet, it is a Grenadier 54 inch, (Sol Jet II)

Andy,
Thank you, I am very happy, the fact that you have seen true-to-life prints from "MY" machine is good news.
It is an ‘old’ machine, and I have no experience of any solvent printer over 30", but this ‘ancient’ Grenadier is churning out print like the trooper it was designed to be. It was faster than the VC, dry print, and tomorrow I will be putting vinyl with grey 100 PC coverage on, see how it likes that!
In total today I have out putted 20 metres solely on poster paper, Matt 150gsm

Lorraine

[Unknown Member]

This is all very exciting and positive news!

Anyone know if the system caters for the new soljet pro 4 machines?

[George Elsmore]

VP 540i ????? oh and how much we looking at for these conversions?

Ta

G

[Robert Lambie]

Good to see this Blog evolving into something useful for all.
I am just back from Northampton this morning and lots to catch-up on but will load more of my replies a.s.a.p.

[Robert Lambie]

quote Andy Blackett:

ROB – do you find it ok on the thicker materials like frontlit and stay flat banner?

Andy, so far, we have had zero issues with regards to thick, thin materials.

quote Dave Rowland:

If the Lightbar results with the ink, will it tear on solids?
Will it crack if folded in half?
is there much ‘bump’ effect on the ink?
I know all these questions have been on your mind for a few years robert when we have talked about UV so be interesting if Lightbar has cracked it as my experience with Vinyl and UV so far has been to give it a miss, cost us a lot of money to correct all the jobs we put out there.

Dave Rowland
As you rightly commented, I have had a bad experience with a UV flatbed costing around £75k.
So I do have my eyes wide open to the crap some UV printers can put out.
In my view, this is a different beast all together. To answer some of your questions Dave…
* It does not crack like UV flatbed ink
* it is not embossed the same as UV flatbed ink
* Will it tear on solids? Sorry I don’t understand that question mate?

Loraine Clinch
Please continue to update us in this thread with your finds on the lightbar.

Andy Blackett
Andy, good to hear you have taken the plunge for one of these bars too mate. If you get a chance, please reply here in this thread with your views and opinions on the UV Lightbar.

Now we have three separate companies all using the bar for the first time, this blog should really help others gain truly unbiased views and opinions from genuine sign makers running their day to day business with this product.

.

[Barry Dok]

Ordered a lightbar for my vp540i, install in the next 2-3weeks,

George: I think the normal price is £2495+vat, I got a show deal, you might still get it if you are quick!

Rob: how’s the scratch resistance on the prints? Vinyl? Banner?

Barry…

[Andrew Blackett]

Just had it confirmed that install will be on Thursday this week, running until Friday morning. Really looking forward to this.

If anyone is interested in this make sure you message rob first as there are some special uksb discounts in place.

Andy

[Andrew Blackett]

quote Barry Dok:

Ordered a lightbar for my vp540i, install in the next 2-3weeks,

George: I think the normal price is £2495+vat, I got a show deal, you might still get it if you are quick!

Rob: how’s the scratch resistance on the prints? Vinyl? Banner?

Barry…

Hi Barry,

I’ve got a sample done on metamark vinyl and I’ve scratched it relentlessly and its not budging. Sample on mesh will scratch after a good while but I think that’s more the material itself than the ink.

Andy

[Robert Lambie]

So it has been six weeks since our Colorific UV lightbar has been installed and our guys are more than used to working with it now. I asked Andrew again if he has had any issues or things he has to do which he didn’t before we switched that could be regarded as an issue, problem, cost even… So here it is…

He said: "just one"…

"The very first 2ft of the media when you "first load" the media into the machine will be regarded as "waste".
This is because when you load whatever media "for the first time" the first 2ft of media must hang in front of the bar or it may snag/jam when your first couple of feet of print feeds through.
Similar type thing happens when loading any laminator!"

"However, its an easy fix…

Take an off-cut of any media the width of your roll by 2ft and set it aside for continual use here on.
When you load your media for the "first time" simply tack/tape on the spare off cut you set aside, to the leading edge of your vinyl coming through the machine.
this off cut just makes sure it guides the media by the bar on the initial 12-18 inches."

So basically, if you are as tight a sign maker as us in Scotland and that first little bit of waste needs saved, then all that is required is a single off-cut of media kept aside and problem solved. 😀

I will post more pictures and video as soon as i get the chance.

.

[Adrian Hewson]

HI Andy put it out in the sun for 3 months and then scratch it and let me know

Regards Adrian

[Andrew Blackett]

Will do Adrian. Although that said the majority of our work on this machine is exhibition stuff and short term banners so the convenience of drying time and processing speed is more a concern than unlaminated outdoor durability.

Andy

[Barry Dok]

Cheers for that Andy, we probably do the same type of work, have you tried it on roller banner material? We don’t laminate our roller banners due to curl, so when the banner is a solid back sometimes gives us problems.

What about inks, who supplies them? I called Robert horn/paper links and antalis they don’t!
Do you only get them from colourific? Direct?

Thanks
Barry

[Andrew Blackett]

Not as yet Barry, its not getting installed till Thursday, reading above though Rob has done a fair bit of it without issues.

You can only get the inks from colorific but they seem to think as the ink becomes more known more agents will jump on the band wagon and stock it.

Andy

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Rob

I am doing as you suggested with the extra bit of media taped to the leading edge, as it is such a waste of good vinyl otherwise.

However, how do you finish the job, to get the print to go under the Light bar lamp? I can manually feed it under, and always do, EXCEPT when I am doing print and cut jobs, as I usually am. It’s frustrating, as Versaworks will not recognise a block of white, so can’t add that to the end of the job.

I’ll be interested in hearing how Andrew gets over this.

Lorraine

[Robert Lambie]

Hi Lorraine

I have just spoken to Andrew and he says the following:

You should have a "blank" file for this very purpose.
it is basically a white square "500mm x 500mm" in eps format that you simply select and print once you have completed your print+cut job.
Because the machine will not print white here, the machine just feeds through the required amount of media to cure.

note: if you are manually feeding this, you are probably not doing it at the required feed speed needed to cure with the UV lamp.

This "pre-RIP’d" blank file should be left in your print queue at all times for convenience.

This is not our workaround, it is the process that should be used when in "print + cut mode", and should have came with your setup from colorific as it did ours.

.

[Lorraine Clinch]

Thanks for that Robert, I will email Ashley at Colorific, I have an engineer coming Thursday to create some more profiles and sort out a few ‘glitches’, so hopefully he can help with this too.

Lorraine

[Andrew Blackett]

Its in!

Ashley and Jason arrived yesterday at about 1pm and worked through till 6pm flushing, fitting new lines, mounting the lightbar and testing etc. We did a test print before and after and both were perfect (and the same!)

Positives:
This definately does what it claims, prints are instantly dry and have good scratch resistance. I couldn’t believe the chemical resistance too; A soaked swab was wiped over a 24 hour old ecosol max print and had predictable results. A soaked swab was wiped over the uv print literally as it passed out of the lightbar and it wouldnt budge!

We’ve done a 4m x 1.5m banner and were able to trim, hem and finish it within 5 minutes of it coming off the machine (5 minutes as we had to clear the bench) a roller banner print too, again instantly dry and another good side was that it was near impossible to leave greasy finger prints in heavy ink areas. Both materials were less soft and flimsy too which has always been an issue on ecosolmax making handling much easier.

Profiling is fantastic, all our medias print beautifully and even vinyl which has always been a bit mottley is now perfect (with some tweaking of profiles)

Setup:
I dont think the media "wasted" at the beginning is going to be an issue, our roller banner material went straight through as did pvc banner – we have an old reverse wound banner which was more problematic but it was teased through with the end of a swab from underneath – I could of taped more on but didnt notice the problem until it was running through.

End of print drying:
As mentioned above its just a small file which you send down after the last print in a batch, this just gets the machine to push the actual print through the lightbar at the given rate. Even this blank media isnt wasted as we just cut the print off under the lightbar (which is better as there isnt as much to wind on the take up so less chance of damage/contamination) and wind the blank back on the roll from the back of the machine.

Smell:
I cant lie, it does have a smell, not a noxious heady solvent smell at all – just different to ecosol. We’ve used ecosol for about 8 years so I reckon we’ll get used to this too.

"Issues":
Only one "issue" is that the main power switch is underneath the unit and impossible to see unless you crawl on the floor. I’m going to sort a new switch and mount it on the side so this should only be an "issue" till I get two ticks to resolve it!

Genuinely over the moon, it is very early days but the initial feeling is very positive – naturally I’ll let you know if this changes 😮

Andy

[Steve Motts]

Well, based mainly on this thread and the positive comments I’ve read here, I’ve just placed my order and paid my deposit.
We’re looking at 3-5 weeks before our installation date.

Can’t wait! 😀

[Andrew Blackett]

You’ll love it Steve honestly! One tip put some dust sheets down around the machine and move media away from the machine, when the ink lines are removed they can flick flush about and contaminate media.

Carts are really well priced too, even better with our uksb discounts! – Nice one Rob!!

Andy

[Lorraine Clinch]

The technician Tom was with me for a day and a half, in the end, and I am totally happy with the machine now, there were a few ‘schoolboy’ errors with the Grenadier itself, all of which were promptly sorted out, all kudos to Colorific, especially Ashley, who was sorting stuff out over the phone, whilst installing Andy’s Lightbar!
Tom spent hours getting profiles correct for the media I am using, and getting the cutting spot on, as I do a lot of labels now.
The vibrancy of the prints now are brilliant, I have had two people comment that the images I showed them looked either 3D, or HD, they are so vibrant. Chromes and glitter look real. I will put up some pictures after the weekend.
I have already got extra sales simply by telling people/showing them the prints we have produced on both vinyl and canvas yesterday.
As you can probably tell, I am so pleased I made the decision to buy from Colorific.

By the way Andy, you do get used to the smell of the inks, at least they don’t give me a headache!

[Robert Lambie]

"Smell"
I noticed you both mention of a smell from the UV ink. I really can’t comment on that other than "i have never noticed any smell". However, having thought about it now, it might be because we have a large Solvent printer and Latex printer running next to our UV Printer. so i am guessing the other printers are maybe cloaking the smell.
I think more smell seems to be noticeable on our latex printer, but i recon that’s just due to the heat that generates when running flat out and drying the latex ink…

Thank you Andy and Lorraine for your feedback since your UV Lightbar installation. Having multiple people giving their own day to day findings of a new product being run by sign makers in a "real working environment" is going to be valuable to anyone considering investing in a lightbar.

Good to hear you made the move Steve, look forward to anything good or bad that you can add to this thread once your lighbar has been installed mate.

UV Ink Usage in comparison to your Solvent Ink usage?
Its a very difficult thing to judge because everything we print varies greatly from one week till the next. but i would be interested in your comments based on how you find your UV ink usage in comparison to what you typically would go through when you had solvent ink.
This is important because its another key factor for folk to consider when investing. my finds are one thing, but if we are all finding same, well… that really is "The proof of the pudding" 😀

* Production sped-up from up-to 24hrs before use, to instantly usable.
* Durability of UV prints far exceeds Solvent prints.
* UK Ink usage is less that that of Solvent, so saving also.

those are 3 very important factors for me and ive firmly ticked each one! 😀

.

[Lorraine Clinch]

Rob, you could also add in less lamination time and costs, both to the customer and us, certainly I am ‘probably’ only going to laminate prints when they are going to be placed in bright full-on sun, especially in coastal locations, or when going onto vehicles, and I possibly wouldn’t even need to do this, except for peace of mind.

Tom the techie’s eyes nearly rolled to the back of his head when he asked what vinyl I was using, so he could make a profile, and it told him it was called ‘Koala 1D’!
By the time he had finished profiling it, he said it was one of the nicest vinyls he had profiled, and thought it far better than Oracal (which I also use).
I haven’t purchased the Koala vinyl before, (Antalis supply it) but thought I would give it a go. I bought a 1520mm wide roll and had it slit down to 900mm and 620mm, because I simply CANNOT make my arms stretch wide enough to get both sides of 1370wide vinyl! I have a full width roll for when I do need to use wider, hopefully that won’t be too often!
I got the Koala in bubble-free grey back, and to be honest the backing paper and ridges feel the same as the Oracal one that I use. Because I am using bubble-free, or air-release it is much easier to lay down, otherwise I would have to laminate or use app tape. For me it is worth the little extra expense to have bubble-free as a daily use vinyl. Sorry, rambling now!
Best get back downstairs, the band that’s playing will be winding down soon.

Lorraine

[Steve Motts]

Hi all,

Our install has been brought forward so hopefully we’ll be up and running soon 🙂

One question we have is that our printer is currently under a 3rd party service contract (with QPS).
We are waiting for them to call us back and let us know if the lightbar/UVconversion will have any effect on the cover we currently receive. My gut feeling is there will probably be an issue.

If this is the case, what is everyone else doing for support of their newly converted printers?

[Steve Motts]

well, the hunch was right – once the conversion is done, we will no longer have any support from QPS and as such, our support contract has now been terminated.

Can anyone recommend a suitable replacement service contract?

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Steve, have you asked Colorific? The tecnician I had out is brilliant, and he also works independantly, Colorific sub him out. He was apparently in on the ground for developement of the Lightbar.

Tom Plunkett, 07853 918691. Don’t suppose he would object to my giving out his number.

[Steve Motts]

Thanks Lorraine, I’ll give Tom a call and see what he can offer.

Colorific have recommended A D Young, who have just given us a price for a next business day, all inclusive support contract.
This works out at quite a bit more than we were initially paying.
However, as we currently only have the single printer, we really can’t afford for it to be out of action for any extended period of time.

[Steve Motts]

I’ve just spoke to Tom – he’s actually coming to do our install next week 😀
I’ll have a chat with him when he arrives!

Thanks again Lorraine

[Robert Lambie]

As this was spoke about in another thread outside of this blog.
I thought I would post it here as it is very relevant.

Dave Rowland asked :

quote Dave Rowland:

does the light bar need new bulbs every xxx hours ? look into the costs
the UV ink is less likely to block, then dampers, wipers and any pipework, well I just thinking if the outlay is actually worth it as solvent is the one that used to block

Steve Motts replied:

quote Steve Motts:

The light bar has a lamp life of “up to 9000 hours”
That’s 375 days, assuming you print for 24 hours of every day.
We reckon we’ll get a 4+ years out of it at our current rate – possiby longer.

If we manage it sooner, I’ll be very happy as we’ll be so busy I won’t care about the cost of the replacement! 😀

My understanding is the following:

The Bulb itself is a Low Energy Lamp. similar idea to a fluorescent tube.
Lamp Manufacturer state it will last up to 9000 hours.

There is 260 days in a year minus weekends.
In a perfect world, Printing flat out for 8 hours a working day, for 260 days = 2080 hours.
meaning you could get up to 4.25 years life out of your lamp.

The World isn’t perfect though is it? 😀
I would think we should be looking at 2+ years life for your bulb.

The bulb costs about £400 depending on the size/width of your printer.
It can easily be changed yourself. so no technician required.

As Steve Motts rightly said… If your machine is running flat out every day constantly for the next few years, we wont give a damn about the cost of a bulb! :lol1: :lol1:

The bottom line here is your going to get 2-3 years from a single bulb, much longer if your machine isnt going flat out every single day.

Anyway, good question to raise Dave…

As Davie has also mentioned, because the ink is UV, there will be less likely of the ink solidifying like Solvent ink can. It will also be less damage to machine parts due to the solvent continually eating into the parts. So a kinder ink on the machine on the whole.

.

[Richard Daniel]

Thanks for the info on this.

Has anyone got this set up on a jV33? – My main concern is the lamp is a lot lower down the unit (nearer the take up unit. – Thats a long way down with wet ink)

[Steff Davison]

quote Richard Daniel:

Thanks for the info on this.

Has anyone got this set up on a jV33? – My main concern is the lamp is a lot lower down the unit (nearer the take up unit. – Thats a long way down with wet ink)

I was told that this retro fit was only possible on a couple of Roland machines, I would be interested to hear which other machines are suitable for conversion.

Thanks

[Richard Daniel]

Steff.

From the site: Mutoh Valuejet – Mutoh Blizzard – Mimaki Jv3 – Mimaki JV33 – Mimaki JV5

[Steff Davison]

quote Richard Daniel:Steff.

From the site: Mutoh Valuejet – Mutoh Blizzard – Mimaki Jv3 – Mimaki JV33 – Mimaki JV5

Thank you Richard.

[Robert Lambie]

This Bad Boy goes to the top of my list as my next Printer purchase!

The Beast – By Roland
Converted to use the UV Lightbar by Colorific

A brilliant machine, coupled by speed and ink durability…
exactly what my sign company needs!

This has just been announced by Colorific, so I am keen to go and see it at their place some time soon.

Our Grenadier and Light Bar has never stopped since it was installed. straight off the machine and ready to use. cant beat it…

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[Richard Daniel]

Looks decent, any idea of costs?

[Robert Walker]

Hhhhmmmm getting to that time where I’m looking at new machines and I’m seriously considering a Roland XR640, now that with a lightbar would be nice, that’s if I can get a definitive answer weather wrap media can be warranted with the inks….

[David Rowland]

Just seen this long thread.. ok, how is the smell? I mean Solvent is bad at time and some of the solvent ink smells disguising. The UV we have smells like nappies (as someone described it once)

With regards my comment about Solid Ink and tearing, well if you print say a solid white or solid black square on a vinyl, we found that UV Ink weakens the vinyl allowing you to tear it, so it weakens the structure of the vinyl. That’s what my comment above was about.

Cracking of UV ink is normally a sign of things like over exposure on the ink or the chemical formula is just not mixed correctly as we had issues with this in the past.

[Boyd Godfrey]

Have read several times that UV prints are glossy. Have you tried printing with matte media and what were the results?

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi, I think you can see from the photo that the print certainly is glossy. Not tried using Matt vinyl as yet, so no idea if the ink is affected.

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[Robert Lambie]

quote Boyd Godfrey:

Have read several times that UV prints are glossy. Have you tried printing with matte media and what were the results?

I have never had the requirement to print onto a matt media Boyd, but think i see where your coming from.
Do you get a consistent matt ink finish using a Solvent machine in this instance?

I ask because when we print onto gloss vinyl using our HP Latex printer the ink is far from gloss like the media, but due to us laminating all our latex prints in either Gloss laminate or Matt laminate after printing, its never been an issue for us.

[Boyd Godfrey]

We work primarily in TV and film and as a rule, the camera hates anything glossy due to light bounce and reflections. As you know, dark glossy surfaces can have mirror-like properties.
With printing Eco-Sol ink on matte surfaces we normally get a satin finish, not quite matte but close enough.
Turnaround time is always critical to us which is why the UV setup looks so attractive.
BTW – I just had our Roland service tech here to service our 74" Pro-2. I showed him the picture of your machine and even he was surprized how similar it looks to one of our units. He wasn’t familiar with Grenadier, do they share a lot of parts with Roland?

[Steve McAdie]

They are Roland printers Boyd rebranded as Uniform they also did a cadet and cadet plus which are versacamms.

[Boyd Godfrey]

Thanks for the clarification Steve!

[Lorraine Clinch]

quote Boyd Godfrey:

We work primarily in TV and film and as a rule, the camera hates anything glossy due to light bounce and reflections. As you know, dark glossy surfaces can have mirror-like properties.
With printing Eco-Sol ink on matte surfaces we normally get a satin finish, not quite matte but close enough.
Turnaround time is always critical to us which is why the UV setup looks so attractive.
BTW – I just had our Roland service tech here to service our 74″ Pro-2. I showed him the picture of your machine and even he was surprized how similar it looks to one of our units. He wasn’t familiar with Grenadier, do they share a lot of parts with Roland?

Hi Boyd

I am printing to a matt waterproof poster paper, and I can safely say the print is matt-as flat as can be!

Lorraine

[George Elsmore]

quote Barry Dok:

Ordered a lightbar for my vp540i, install in the next 2-3weeks,

George: I think the normal price is £2495+vat, I got a show deal, you might still get it if you are quick!

Rob: how’s the scratch resistance on the prints? Vinyl? Banner?

Barry…

can you still print cut with the lightbar fitted?

[Emyr Evans]

Can you still use the take up roller, and are you able to print and cut instantly?

Thanks

[Robert Lambie]

Yes to both George and Emyr’s questions above.

[Michael Kalisperas]

This really intrigues me. As one of the very first Guinea pigs for sepiax ink under B&P Lighqbrigade I was impressed back then but annoyed with profiling and curing I even fitted my own bulb on the Printhead to help cure and posted a YouTube video it worked fantastic. I knew it was only a matter of time for the ink to progress to something like this maybe it’s a different product but it’s nice to see ink advance like this . The addition with the UV lightbar is genius I just refuse to install on a new xr640 printer 😉 for now and may look into another printer.

Have all the profiles been sorted yet??

[Michael Kalisperas]

Actually have a question in regard to this topic but it has a different spin on it. Does anyone know if normal Roland ink would cure quicker with the lightbar? Reason why I ask is I opted out of the optional post dryer on the xr640 and now I wish I didn’t. I was wondering if I get this lightbar as it would stand me in good stead if I chose to convert at a later stage ?

I know inks are different and it cites differently but does it generate head is there blowers?? Etc.

[Emyr Evans]

Does anyone know if this ink is suitable for T-Shirt transfers?

I’ve read that it’s not recommended for vehicle wrap, we occasionally have to use cast on some vehicles due to a recess in the bodywork, what happens – does the ink crack?

I’ve noticed that the uv ink is considerably more expensive than the bulk colorific ink we use at the moment, do you believe the benefits of quick drying, etc balance the increase in ink costs.

I would be grateful for your opinions.

Thanks

[Robert Walker]

I have some printed samples on 3M ij180 and it wraps an absolute dream, (no cracking)
my only concern is the warranty side,

im waiting for 3M to pick the samples up and for them to do there own testing and i will post any results on here

Robert

[Lorraine Clinch]

In reply to Emyr, I have done a few garment prints now, after testing for myself. I put my logo and text onto a polo shirt, which has been washed (30 degrees only) and tumble-dried on hot several times, and so far is as good as the day it was printed. I am doing a batch of clothing at the moment, have total confidence in it.

Regarding the ink cost, it is the same as genuine Roland carts, which I always used anyway, so no problem there, for me.

I did have some issues to start with, which were down to profiles rather than the ink or machine, now they are sorted out (more profiles made, thanks to Tom Plunkett and Colorific) and the cutting set-up fine-tuned, I am a very happy person, and I LOVE my printer.

I have so far printed roll-up and normal banners, polyester flags, canvas, garment vinyl, self-cling, clear and white vinyl, gold and silver chrome normal vinyl, reflective print vinyl, and various poster papers. There has not been a hitch on any, and I have not laminated anything so far.

The image I put outside on a south-facing wall still looks like the copy I have inside, no fading that I can see at all, and was put outside on 2nd June, so almost three months ago.

Best move I ever made, was buying this old printer, with new technology, and I love that I no longer stuff up prints when laminating, with creases, dust etc.

Lorraine

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi everyone, as above, images of prints internal and external, almost 3 months on.

Today’s photo taken when the sun was not shining. No idea why some are upside-down, they are fine when clicked on!

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[Lorraine Clinch]

Sorry, getting boring now, but just read through all the posts again, and recalled something else to point out.

I now turn off mains electric every night (I think there may be a piggy-back somewhere off my meter) as the machine does not need to run regular cleans. Also I only do a clean every four weeks or so. The occasional head tests are always perfect, and the machine is definitely ‘plug and play’, it can be off for days, and prints perfectly as soon as turned on.

So not only do I not laminate, but I save money on electricity too.

Lorraine

[Emyr Evans]

Thanks for your replies, looks like the upgrade is the way forward.

[Jon Marshall]

Surely you still need to laminate for vehicle stuff?

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Jon

I haven’t so far, maybe I am taking the promise at too much face value, but as the print itself should be UV-proof, and scratch-proof, the only reason to laminate would be to protect the vinyl itself from scratches from trees, bushes etc, unless I am missing something? And if the customer takes his vehicle through bushes, that is his lookout, surely?

I tell my customers that the UV stability has been trialled for 4 years so far, and testing is on-going, so could be much longer. They all seem happy with this so far.

Lorraine

[Robert Lambie]

There are a list of things that vehicles are exposed to that signs aren’t.

one big one, is "chemicals". vehicles are washed regularly. pressure wash, drive thru, bucket and sponge jobs, then there’s wax and polishes, to fumes, petrol spills when fuelling up and so on… all these chemicals break down the print and lead to a fail.

you then have abrasion damage from all washing methods, such as car washes and the like… washes sound a safe one, but i remember a van we had years ago and it being washed. within two days the gloss finish had gone from the van! we haven’t a clue what’s in these washes, or the level/amount being used in them.
then there is head on wind and everything the vehicle passes through in the air. you would be surprised! just look at the crap found on your bonnet when driving down the motorway after a couple of hours.

all this said, I have tested this UV ink against some of the most aggressive chemicals i could find in our work and none had an impact, where as the same on Latex and Solvent Ink destroyed the ink in seconds.

I am in no way saying "don’t laminate your vehicle prints". I ALWAYS laminate my vehicle prints regardless. But i would say if ever there was an ink to use if not laminating, then UV would be my vote.
That said, look at the likes of the Various Industry Award logos and the like we see on most vans out there. they are just screen printed and stuck to vans. by that i mean your Corgi, ISO9001, Master Craftsmen, etc etc these seem to be accepted as a non-laminated, will eventually fade etc and not questioned. Then we have the gerber edge thermal printing days, again just accepted as non-laminated. yes i know they brought a clear protection ribbon out for that, but still, most didnt.

[Adrian Hewson]

How is service ?? I have phoned a few times about buying one dropped phone lines, no return calls, no info, if I cant findout about buying one or samples or profiles what is the chance of getting one fixed if needed

[Lorraine Clinch]

Adrian, I cannot speak for people purchasing a new machine with full years warranty, but I had a three month warranty on my machine, and Colorific have been totally on the ball getting issues sorted within the warranty period. If I were a sceptic I could say this is because they know I have been posting on here (I am sure they watch this thread with great interest, of course), but none the less, they have sent out an engineer an additional two times to rectify problems within the warranty period, along with follow up calls to ensure all was OK after.
I have not got a service package on the machine, sometimes, as with pet insurance, it is a choice between paying monthly for no ‘seen’ need, or taking the risk and pay when necessary. Of course this does not apply to required insurances, only optional ones.
As I have had an engineer out already who is experienced with my machine and the UV Lightbar technology, it is a simple choice to make, and I take the chance.
Don’t know about not getting through Adrian, I did have some difficulty, but I think they may be a bit overwhelmed with enquiries, but always have had a reply either by phone or email.

Lorraine

[Robert Lambie]

quote Lorraine Clinch:

Sorry, getting boring now, but just read through all the posts again, and recalled something else to point out.
Lorraine

NOT boring in any way at all Lorraine, people are reading this thread out of interest. replies from the likes of you and andy etc are exactly what people want to read. "our combined" real life day-to-day sign making experiences with running these machines/bars/inks etc is a million times better than standing listing to a sales rep lining his pockets after feeding you any old gumph read from a spec sheet. all feedback is welcome.

You are correct, Colorific are reading this thread with interest. Good or Bad, the good replies are great to hear for them and us lot looking to make a purchase, but the negative replies will be taken on board and used to better their product or service offered. at least i think they will… 😉 :lol1:

anyway, thank you for taking the time to make these replies on the blog Lorraine, it doesn’t have over 12,000 views and 90+ replies because nobody is interested! 😉

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Rob, thanks. As you will have seen over the years I have been a member of this group, I only really post when I feel I have a contribution to make, so thank you for the encouragement.

I said I hadn’t laminated anything, but I did tell a porky….I put two printed reflective vinyl signs last month, up on the East Norfolk coast, in front of a hotel that was flooded in the December 2013 surge, and due to the sun and salt exposure, and that the material was digital reflective, I did choose to laminate, but only with normal clear vinyl, not UV protected. I have lived in North Norfolk for 20 years, so guess (hope) I shall be here for a few more years to keep an eye on it.

Lorraine

[Emyr Evans]

This forum is used as a sales tool by Colorific as I was sent a link when I first enquired about the lightbar.
When my father called them yesterday to place an order it was mentioned that they’ve seen my posts on this forum!

I don’t find the content boring at all, it’s very informative and unbiased and as stated elsewhere, much better than listening to a sales pitch.

[Raymond Doyle]

I think I read earlier on this thread that this can be done on a Mimaki jv3, has anyone done it? How did it go? What were the costs? Apologies if this has been answered already, such a large thread to re-read

[Adrian Hewson]

Well guys was ready to take the plunge placed an order for the lightbar and eventually got samples but we did very quick light nail scrape and got horrific results we will not be proceeding, two pictures same are light bar third picture is our solvent print. Couldn’t use the same photo though

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[Robert Lambie]

Adrian, Very interesting, i have already did this test several times.
However, I printed my tests on :

1, A Solvent Printer
2, A Latex Printer
3, A UV Light-bar Printer

I used the SAME :
INK & ARTWORK File

I printed all three at the same time and gave them 36 Hours to dry/cure.

I got exactly the OPPOSITE results of what you are showing here.
Your result is your result, but it certainly not a proper comparison result by any mean.

also, when i did my tests i used a screw driver, allowing the weight of the driver to determine the force i used on the print surface.

regardless, interesting results… thank you for your input to the thread.

[Adrian Hewson]

Hi Rob we do not have the light bar, we got the samples from colorific that is why I could not use the same file, this was a very quick test that I did just as we got the samples and compared it to a solvent print that was lying on one of the fitting tables which had not been laminated yet, the solvent print was less than 24 hours old. As everyone knows we had a Annapurna M which we scrapped because of this issue and fading in sunlight, in my opinion based on the samples that calorific sent us , prints must be laminated

Must mention that prior to posting this these photos were sent to colorific and they did not disagree with us ??

[Robert Lambie]

All prints exposed to abrasion or chemical or long term UV exposure should be laminated regardless.

Yes i remember you having the Anapurna UV Flatbed, Adrian…
I also had EFI/Raster printer UV Flatbed, paying about £75k for it… and it also came with a list of negatives from me. so much so i returned it one unhappy customer.
However, those are different beasts altogether and when i look at the market several years on, we were really buying guinea pig entry level machines even at £75,000.
anyway, we are now about 7 months into using our UV Lightbar. it has never missed a beat or had a problem and the ink far exceeds the output pf any other printer we have.
we do not laminate as much as we used too, because before with our solvent machine "everything" got laminated regardless to vehicle or not. well other than stickers.

even only today, i had a friend, who is another sign company standing chatting away to me today whilst Andrew printed him a list of things off, rolled it up and handed him the prints ready to go. definitely a game changer for me. that would simply not be possible for me on my solvent machine which we run along side it.

this thread is now approaching 19,000 views.
i know lots of people that read this, now own a light-bar too and have not come forward to complain. hence why i like to encourage others to come forward with their own finds if running one. negative or good… its more than welcome. because either way it can only make this thread more valuable to those considering buying as they can take everyone’s comments combined, on board.

[Michael Kalisperas]

I’m still very interested in this conversion for my new XR640 what are people’s opinions on doing this on a new machine?? Also as it’s been a longer period anyone had any extra issues I’m especially interested in the UV stability side of it all. Yellows are the worse offenders most often how do these respond?

I have not got the luxury of waiting for prints to de gas so this would be massively helpful to me and my business especially with random hospital visits needed for my son. Please any opinions would be great. Anyone compared the ink from the new eco sol max 2 to this??
Kind regards Michael