UV Lightbar from Colorific now installed on my machine!

[Michael Kalisperas]

Just bean speaking to Stuart from Colorifc about the lightbar conversion. I think I’m going to take the plunge. I was little disappointed that the uv ink range does not support White ink as my current set up is CMYK with light cmyk, light black and white.
I don’t use white lots but it’s a nice feature to have. I’m after some opinions especially the people that have taken the plunge.
I was told I could go with current set up but block the White cartridge. Seems a shame ?
Go all CMYKx2

Just confused not sure if losing the light CMYK will print nice??
And the lack of White is painful for when it’s needed. Can be rare I must add but a god send when needed.

Any help guys and gals??

[Lorraine Clinch]

quote Michael Kalisperas:

Any help guys and gals??

Send me a file of your choice Michael, and I will post you a print back unlaminated, from my machine.

absolutesigns_uk@yahoo.co.uk

Lorraine.

[Lorraine Clinch]

quote Adrian Hewson:

How is service ?? I have phoned a few times about buying one dropped phone lines, no return calls, no info, if I cant findout about buying one or samples or profiles what is the chance of getting one fixed if needed

Well I have to say that Colorific are still excelling themselves, I had a problem recently (last week) and needed a new assay scan motor. This in turn led to other problems (not the ink’s fault).

I paid for a new motor, and they sent out an engineer to replace the motor at their own cost, along with the offer to refund the motor cost if I do decide to upgrade the machine this year. When there were some capping issues after the motor was installed, they sent out another engineer to see to it, again at their cost. It isn’t as though I live just down the road, either…..

Now if that is not excellent customer service, I don’t know what is.

Well done Colorific, and a huge thank you!

Lorraine

[Michael Kalisperas]

Thank you Lorraine. Stuart has offered to send me a print also unlamented thank you.

Just apprehensive because of long time ago headaches I had with third party ink on a old machine. This is a new machine but not sure of losing white ink even though it’s not used lots. Aslo wondering what people’s opinion on 8 cart set up currently 4 CMYK, 1 laugh black, 1 white ink and,1 light C and,1 light M

Not sure if I take the plunge I go all cmyk x2 cheaper to run but is the colour spectrum loss that big?? Or same set up but block the White ink with dummy cart. Or don’t take the plunge as I have a lot of eco sol max 2 ink still 😉
What machine you running Lorraine?

[Lorraine Clinch]

Michael, I have an old Grenadier/SP-1400con 6-colour.

I considered white ink, but rarely require it. I’m considering my options at the moment, I think I should take the plunge and have a new machine, I am very happy with the Lightbar and UV, so will carry on with this. I will definitely be at Sign UK this year, to see what all the options are under one roof. My price-bracket is at the low end for a new machine, so it has to be one of the Roland range, I think, just don’t really understand all the differences between the new machines.

Lorraine

[Michael Kalisperas]

Ordered mine 😉

[David Hammond]

Plenty to consider as I am really impressed with the light bar, as was my dad this morning when I had him do the penny test on some prints… now do we retro fit it to our RS-640, or get an new RE-640 :lol1:

Ordered a Take Up Unit for our easy mount and additional mandrels, as we’re staying in our unit for a further 3 years, so we’re trying to make life easier.

Was also nice to meet James, Rob, and Hussain down there!

[David Hammond]

Now then…

Has anyone tried a wrap using the lightbar?

We run one machine so it needs to tick all the boxes…

Awaiting quotes on a new machine and lightbar…

[Robert Walker]

I was led to believe that mdx has been passed by metamark, im waiting for a confirmation from 3M then colourific can have all my money. It’s the only thing holding me back. Like you david all my eggs are in one machine and 80% of my work is printed wraps so it has to work.

[David Hammond]

We’re 80% print 20% pribred wraps but it’s ever growing.

The instant dry is a huge advantage to us… but it has to work with wraps.

I will speak to Metamark next week.

[Unknown Member]

I’m surprised at the results Adrain has posted here as I spent some time with Nick the MD of colourific having a demo….He printed a file in front of me, grabbed a coin from his pocket and tried to remove the ink. The vinyl actually ripped before the ink came off.

I know David Hammond would agree with this as he had the same 20p demo….

I didn’t even want to buy the machine but after seeing the demo I ordered a RF640 with the light bar as a complimentary machine to sit in our fleet to help with all those jobs that need to go out the door quickly…This is being installed in the next couple of weeks so will keep you all updated.

Now that the light bar is backed by Roland I know this will fully supported by the exceptionally high levels of service Roland always offer.

[Robert Lambie]

quote James Sahota:

I didn’t even want to buy the machine but after seeing the demo I ordered a RF640 with the light bar as a complimentary machine to sit in our fleet to help with all those jobs that need to go out the door quickly.

I knew David was looking at this but I didn’t know you went for one too James. Will be good to hear yet more sign makers views on the lightbar here on this thread. The more that comment here the more valuable the thread will be to anyone interested in buying one. "Real feedback from real sign makers that actually use the product daily"

[David Hammond]

Off down to see Jay at Signmaster Systems tomorrow to get a demo on the RF640.

We’re actually now considering keeping the machine as standard solvent with additional heater to aid drying (the main reason we looked at the light bar)

The main reason is there’s no definitive answer as to how it works with vehicle wrapping.

If we had the space to keep both machines, we’d have a light bar without hesitation, but for the investment in a new machine + lightbar we need it to tick all of the boxes. There’s no denying that the ink, lightbar is a fantastic set up, and I am very impressed with it… it’s that one [b]BUT[/b] will it be OK an customers wrap…

I had a discussion with Roland today, and mentioned my concerns, and it seem’s that most wrap media was developed for Solvent Inks, even other UV and Latex ink doesn’t perform as well as solvent on wrap media, as these inks apply a layer to the vinyl, rather than being absorbed into it. I’m not sure how accurate the explanation or my understanding is.

[Michael Kalisperas]

My Lightbar is being installed in a week. I’m sure I read somewhere it worked great on wraps ?? Didn’t Rob lamb test and say it was good?? Rob can you confirm. I know someone did??

[Robert Lambie]

I print allot of "vehicle graphics" that are either un-laminated or laminated.
We have not had a single problem with them since having our lightbar installed.

However. you will see from the original post i made, this was installed on an OLD Grenadier / Roland Soljet printer which is about 11 years old now i think. So I do not print wraps using this machine because it is just too slow. We opt to run wraps on out HP Latex 360 machines. So I have no real world testing to go by, hence why i have not reported my finds.
However, I did do a series of tests on the inks on the UKSG Wrap Training vehicle on a series of very demanding panels. the prints worked perfectly fine. also, if you take the prints and pull the vinyl you will see the prints do stretch. however, as i said, as i haven’t been able to test these on a live job over a significant time. I cannot give an accurate report when it comes to over stretched wraps into recesses.

What I will say is, i have heard of companies already running lots of wraps via their lightbar. i don’t know them personally
but this is a picture of one of many they have done.

The following Mini was done by CL Signs in Holland

So in a nutshell, done tons of vehicle graphics laminated and un-laminated. no problems at all over a period of a year or so. vehicle wraps, i have not done anything long term or large enough that i would term as a wrap. once i do i will post it here.

[David Hammond]

Arrrggggghhhh Robert you are really not helping!!!

I’ve not had a definitive answer, I understand why… the light bars been out 12-18 months so by no means a long term test has been conducted in the real world.

Hmm some more thought is needed before we decide either way.

[Robert Walker]

I believe there are issues with latex and certain wrap vinyls.
So it does seem best to hold off until the big boys say it’s safe, I have had a few conversation with colourific and 3m and not had an answer either way.
I Gave 3m some light bar prints samples on ij180 and I will post any info if and when I get it.

[Michael Kalisperas]

I think it will work fine. when I get mine I’ll do some tests. Mine will be on a XR640 so will have a better idea. I’m guessing the lack of a definitive answer is because there are countless Vinyls and I bet there maybe some issues with certain types of vinyls. Having said this I found this issue with solvent ink so don’t think it will be a biggy.
I think the boys are onto a good product here and I maybe regretting my purchase when things go wrong but I’ve done my research and I believe all will be ok.

The scratch test is the dogs. And I’m actually thinking this type of mixed ink UV/part solvent is the future for the best of both worlds. My biggest concern is how the yellow holds up in the sun but again spoken to a few companies that had this installed and no problems.

Only thing I forgot to ask is if it works on printable flex vinyl for garment printing
So bring in 14th April my install date.

[Aaron McCulla]

Any update on these?

We are looking to upgrade and im seriously tempted but need to be able to print part wraps.

I have been told that this has now been profiled since the partnership with roland.
Has anyone tried it??

Thanks

[Michael Kalisperas]

Yes it works fine no cracking nothing even in deep recesses. I’ve only done couple of jobs since we received the latest profile as I have added the Lightbar on a recent machine the XR640 I used metamark wrap series material. One ward fanatic. I love the fact I don’t have to wait and even trailed a no laminate wrap after discussions with client wlth large discount to customer as we agreed we would test. So far fanatic no problems it’s been only a month but works great. Gives a nice shiney flat finish. I only found one issue and that is that I’m currently waiting on more profiles as with my machine there has only been a few done.
I have Md5 , MD7 MDPX Wrap, Banner, clothing print flex, renown vinyl profiles all coming out nicely. Need a few more and I’ll be happy.

[Gary Barker]

Hi All Im thinking of getting my old JV3 160sp converted, because you have all had chance to use / test the conversion would you recommend it ???

Thanks Gary

[Unknown Member]

I had a good conversation about this with Michael Kalisperas

He raises some good point about this as his been using it for a while.

I think currently the biggest issue is profiling

Many Thanks

James

[Michael Kalisperas]

Yes my machine still needs profiling in conversation I was under the assumption it was change of inks and lightbar and plug and play. Obviously not the case entirely as it needs profiling and there are limits on certain materials. Generally though it’s really good and the no out gassing is a major selling point. The sale and technical team are top people. My issues are because my machine is new model that needs profiling as the ink sets are set differently. As for other models like the one your getting James I believe there is a large volume of profiles.

Because of the chassis on my machine the technician is currently redesigning the lightbar to be placed slightly higher up like it is on the other machines.

For older machines it’s a no Brainer as you are updating the technology and at a fraction of the price of a new uv machine.
A bit annoying is the amount of ink and material Waste on profiling I have been reassured will be sorted for this.

I will wait for more profiles before I can give full review.

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Gary Barker:

Hi All Im thinking of getting my old JV3 160sp converted, because you have all had chance to use / test the conversion would you recommend it ???

Thanks Gary

Will transform your jv3 just get the materials you use most ready as I have had a situation where before with solvent i just knew it would still print on any material practically but with my recent situation to print on roller blind that hides cigarettes at a counter I would normally had said yes I can do but because I don’t have profile for this material I wouldn’t risk trying. With solvents I would.
Just one example. Some jobs that i take on are so random. I know of your sticking to certain materials and get profiles for those then your laughing.

[Stephen Morriss]

We looked at the lightbar on a Roland printer at Newtech yesterday, looked good and I think we will be ordering a a conversion shortly for our aging SP540V, I’ve asked them a few extra questions but one that current users will be able to tell me better is about cleaning.
As I understand it the inks don’t dry unless they go past the UV light so how is the inside of your printers with overspray and how do the outer parts of the heads look? fluff or dust sticking?
Is it easy to clean off?

Thanks
Steve

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Stephen Morriss:

We looked at the lightbar on a Roland printer at Newtech yesterday, looked good and I think we will be ordering a a conversion shortly for our aging SP540V, I’ve asked them a few extra questions but one that current users will be able to tell me better is about cleaning.
As I understand it the inks don’t dry unless they go past the UV light so how is the inside of your printers with overspray and how do the outer parts of the heads look? fluff or dust sticking?
Is it easy to clean off?

Thanks
Steve

Well it’s not full solvent and I barely clean mine and have full nozzles.

[Stephen Morriss]

Thanks for that Michael but I was thinking more of the ink on other parts of the printer, like the wipers and other parts that get ink onto them.

Steve

[Robert Lambie]

quote Stephen Morriss:

I was thinking more of the ink on other parts of the printer, like the wipers and other parts that get ink onto them.

Stephen, Do you mean is it aggressive on the plastic machine parts?
Quick answer i would give is no!
its not like solvent that will continually bite into the plastic and rubber parts of the machine. Which can lead to deterioration of the part and often makes them brittle.
example: snapping manifold pin and the like when changing dampers etc if you have had your machine a number of years. the plastic pin mounts get brittle. anyway…

The UV ink does not solidify anywhere near as quick as Solvents which can turn to a jelly quickly, which is why light manual maintenance cleans/wipes are required.
which is why you you don’t get the same nozzle heads clogging with the UV bar like you do with solvent machines.

For the record, I am in no way knocking Solvent Ink machines here, i would be a complete hypocrite if i was as i have run multiple solvent machines for over 12 years. I am merely giving you comparisons on how i find the uv inks in my Roland machine.

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Robert Lambie:

quote Stephen Morriss:

I was thinking more of the ink on other parts of the printer, like the wipers and other parts that get ink onto them.

Stephen, Do you mean is it aggressive on the plastic machine parts?
Quick answer i would give is no!
its not like solvent that will continually bite into the plastic and rubber parts of the machine. Which can lead to deterioration of the part and often makes them brittle.
example: snapping manifold pin and the like when changing dampers etc if you have had your machine a number of years. the plastic pin mounts get brittle. anyway…

The UV ink does not solidify anywhere near as quick as Solvents which can turn to a jelly quickly, which is why light manual maintenance cleans/wipes are required.
which is why you you don’t get the same nozzle heads clogging with the UV bar like you do with solvent machines.

For the record, I am in no way knocking Solvent Ink machines here, i would be a complete hypocrite if i was as i have run multiple solvent machines for over 12 years. I am merely giving you comparisons on how i find the uv inks in my Roland machine.

Spot on thank you for replying more in detail had a busy day and I dangerously texted my previous comment whilst driving hence why it was short.

Maintenance is very minimal , parts are prolonged but there is flaws but more gains than flaws.

Only flaw at the

Gains :
instant curing
Less maintenance
Less ink used so save money
Extends older machines life span
Supported by Roland themselves
More money revenue as print is ready saving de gassing time
Top company nice team of experts on hand

Not so great: (but can only improve and have workarounds )
Profiles for media needed not like solvent you can get away with generic vinyl profile etc
Limits to colour merged so minor but for instance yellow to black blends fir edges on magnifying. Work around though.
Wrap limits on stretches by wrapping is certainly possible just hard excessive stretches won’t work like they do with solvent.
Some material waste on lead edge to light-bar
Not as forgiving with dust particles as solvent is as pools round them like fish eye.

Very minimal issues but

[Stephen Morriss]

Tried replying once but it seems to have gone missing so here goes another attempt.

I’m not worried about solvent effects on parts, it was more about the ink spray/mist staying wet and collecting dust or fluff. If it’s not been noticed then it’s probably not a problem anyway.

I’m hoping that profiles are more sorted for the Roland printers.

Thanks
Steve

[Robert Lambie]

quote Stephen Morriss:

Tried replying once but it seems to have gone missing so here goes another attempt.

Stephen i did exactly the same with this thread 5 minutes ago. typed up about 500 words and the whole lot vanished when i submitted it. :banghead:

[Stephen Morriss]

Had the Lightbar fitted yesterday and some profiles done on my regular materials. Looks good so far but time will tell.

Feels a tiny bit weird rubbing your finger across what looks like wet ink and it’s completely dry.

Steve

[Gary Barker]

quote Stephen Morriss:

Had the Lightbar fitted yesterday and some profiles done on my regular materials. Looks good so far but time will tell.

Feels a tiny bit weird rubbing your finger across what looks like wet ink and it’s completely dry.

Steve

On what printer Steve.

[Robert Lambie]

quote Stephen Morriss:

Feels a tiny bit weird rubbing your finger across what looks like wet ink and it’s completely dry.

You are right Stephen, it does feel odd and first whipping out a print and handing it to a customer right away or just applying it right away…

Non Laminated Ink Durability is second to none in my opinion.

[Daniel Evans]

Hey guys

I’m looking at buying my first printer, I was looking at the sp540i but this colourific light at sounds awesome.

I’ve got a couple of questions I’m hoping someone can answer:

Is there anyone that will do a service package on your printer once it’s fitted?

Will it work with a sp540i if not what’s the best print and cut machine it will work with?

What are the ink costs lije compared to original inks?

Thanks

[Stephen Morriss]

quote Gary Barker:

quote Stephen Morriss:

Had the Lightbar fitted yesterday and some profiles done on my regular materials. Looks good so far but time will tell.

Feels a tiny bit weird rubbing your finger across what looks like wet ink and it’s completely dry.

Steve

On what printer Steve.

Sorry, should have said, it’s a older RolandSP540V, was a Cadet plus that I converted back to EcosolMax inks.

Steve

[Lorraine Clinch]

I’ve had my Lightbar for over a year now, and there has been no issue at all with overspray on the visible areas, and under the casing there are some splashes etc, but most of this is probably from when it was a solvent machine. It doesn’t have wet ink/dust collecting. (Unless I don’t give it a wipe over now and again!)

Lorraine

[Stephen Morriss]

Mine should be ok now as the mist pad has been put back in, I guess is was removed in the conversion to Uniform solvent inks as it may have melted or something.

Steve

[Gary Barker]

Hi all Im just about to order a lightbar has anyone used it of printing vehicle wraps, does the ink stretch at all ? I’ve just tried a sample they sent me and it gives no stretch the ink just splintered but it wasn’t on wrapping film, but it should still stretch !

Thanks Gary

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi Gary, scroll up to May 12th, Michael Kalispera gives his review of wrap material and performance.

Lorraine

[Stephen Morriss]

I’ve not done any real stretching of mine yet but the bits I’ve have stretched haven’t splintered or cracked at all. I’ll have to have a go and see how far it’ll go.

Steve

[Robert Lambie]

quote Gary Barker:

does the ink stretch at all ? I’ve just tried a sample they sent me and it gives no stretch the ink just splintered but it wasn’t on wrapping film, but it should still stretch

I will stick my neck out here and say that there is something wrong with your sample mate.
I have stretched prints with and without laminate and not had this happen at all. yes you get the usual discolouring of print, the further you stretch the lighter/whiter it gets. but that happens regardless to ink or machine you use.
However, it Does NOT Crack or flake.
Cracking or flaking is a typical example of what to expect from the likes of a UV flat bed printer were the ink because a dry crust. This is not the case with the UV lightbar Ink.

So why does your sample do it?

I do not have the answer, but I remember issues many years ago when a UKSB board member was sent samples of B&P Activasol prints after we did a similar type test to this one. Their sample prints came off easily. I asked the member to send me the prints he had been sent and it was clearly NOT Uniform Activasol inks that had been used. After much a do, the suppliers apologised and said he had run the prints on another solvent printer, rather than the Uniform Cadet. "problem solved". Could this be the same happening here? I dont know but possible.

Another, could simply be the wrong profile used or the wrong media used for the profile.

I spoke with Colorific a few months ago and they have told me that even since I started this thread, they have advanced so far these days with regards to profiles and more. all adding to the durability of the ink running from this system.

[Aaron McCulla]

I have finally decided to go ahead with the lightbar and its due this week. I will certainly be putting it through its paces when it arrives! I will keep you all updated.

[Steff Davison]

I have had my VS 540 Lightbar machine since 13th July so far the experience has not been good. Purchased from Clourific.

Installed by an "engineer" who it turns out is part of the sales team. Was unable to profile any media except downloading profiles from Roland partner website. Told me that I couldnt use the machine for unattended print and cut with the take up system !!

The print produced is not robust, so far the results from the HP 360 which I looked at prior to purchasing the Lightbar, are more durable to a scratch test. Reported my concerns to Colourific who, with the intervention of Justin, said they would send up an engineer.

Waited 10 days for an engineer to come and provide profiles for my media and the machine. The engineer who came has profiled my media and the print results in terms of colour reproduction are much better. However scratch tests still remove ink. The engineer suggested that the lamp may not be functioning to its full capacity ( it should have been run for 100 hours prior to install) so may be the reason why ink is removed with a scratch test. The engineer produced some media he had profiled on another lightbar, this print was not removable with a scratch test so I am not suggesting that my problems are an inherent problem with all lightbar conversions/systems. I also noticed that areas where more ink has been put down are more resistant to scratching than areas with lighter ink coverage.

To date (13 days) I cannot produce product which is robust enough to sell for interior use without lamination, I purchased this machine because I did not want to laminate.

I will update with more information, for those who may be interested.

Steff

[Kevin Flowers]

Steff
with the amount of interest in this system i cannot believe that Colourific are not putting 100% of there resources into solving this issue. Hopefully the sign industry is not going to see another company that’s created a step forward in ink technology start growing too fast and begin to neglect its clients. Using a salesman who can only do a partial install on a conversion like this, which relies on media profiles as part of the install is poor and echoes B&P when they introduced the major ink development of full solvent ink in printers, so many people took it up they did not have the resources to service everyone

Hope they make you their No.1 priority to get your machine up and running correctly

Kev

[Unknown Member]

These guys pretty much has a order in the bag from me – 13k for a brand new machine. Sold at Sign Digital on the Roland Stand.

Took the guys 21 days to come back to me with a reply, in that time I revisited the HP Latex 360 which I was doubtful of due to the back experiences I had with the L26500 but I’m glad I did take half a day out to go see it.

My concern with the Lightbar is the lack of material profiles and the more I read this post the more its confirmed that perhaps there is the right back and support there.

I originally decided to go for it due to Roland backing it but reading about the issues with profiles and I know one user in particular who has told me about him requesting a refund as he can’t get on with it.

In the defence of colorific Nick Wintle did personally call me and apologies and offered to take control of my order and see that things were addressed, I think by this time the sour taste was just to much.

21 days to answer my questions all media and profile related, God forbid I have an issue I wonder how long I could be waiting.

I will hold fire on my purchase until the light bar has gone through some revisions.

[Stephen Morriss]

I’ve had quite a good experience so far. Emailed questions replied to quickly and my order went through fast but did have a slight hiccup when the lightbar came with the wrong arms, my printer needed the older arms as it’s an early SP540V so the legs and mounting are different to the newer SP540i.
Anyway the engineer then profiled my printer and tested all the media I used and did a few tweaks of the profiles to suit but on the whole the media either worked or didn’t, and to be fair there was only one media that the inks didn’t seem to like (it’d been hanging around for 2 years) plus my banner material was a bit variable, it seems to print great on one part then not on another so I’ve changed to another media.

As far as the prints go I’ve taken them straight off the printer and rubbed over them quite aggressively with a used plastic squeegee and the print didn’t seem to mind at all, in fact the vinyls & laminate I use mark easier from the same treatment.
I don’t do wrapping and try not to get involved in stretching prints into deep recesses so I can’t comment on that but the vehicle prints, banners and signs I’ve done so far have been great. Especially banners, they do seem more resilient than with the Roland inks.
It’s not all good though, my office can be dusty and the inks don’t like dust, the Roland Ecosolmax inks will print over dust but then when you wipe it the dust comes off and leaves a white patch anyway so I just have to keep on top of dust control.
I’ve no idea if my conversion will turn out to be cost effective with it being nearly 10 years old already but the heads are still good and it seemed the right way to go for us at the moment, the ability to print and apply straight away has helped us, no more leaving large prints hanging around to dry and then having heavy ink areas take more than a day to dry properly, I’ve had prints ruined when they stick to each other the day after they were printed.

So far I’m happy we did the conversion but ask me again in 6 month 😉

Steve

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
please don’t get me wrong but see this scenario before, at the time solvent inks where the big step forward for the sign industry which i feel led the machine manufacturers to research more on there eco inks which as led to bet colours and adhesion. The problem seems to be that the growth comes just to quick for the company to keep up with it and so you start getting bad installs, disgruntled customers and questions, repairs being left. Hopefully Colourific are looking to get back on top of it and get Steff’s machine sorted and anyone elses because as some owners have said the system is a major step forward and i’m sure we will see more development on the back of it

Kev

[Aaron McCulla]

Light bar is now installed on a second hand pro3. This is to run along side my sp540i. The plan is to ease the work load on the sp540i and to help with last minute jobs.

So far I’m very impressed with the drying, scratch resistance, gloss level and colour depth. A lot more testing required as I have only printed on Metamark md5 and Hexis hx200wg.

Its very strange going straight from the machine to mount onto a board. Or straight into the laminator. But it works!
I will try and keep everyone updated.

[Emyr Evans]

I’m having some print quality issues not sure if it’s the media or printer. It’s a Grenadier with the lightbar conversion.
I would be grateful for any help with this issue.

It’s also not as scratch resistant as I expected, I can scratch the surface with a felt covered squeegee.

---

Attachments:

[Stephen Morriss]

The red looks like a spot of dust on the vinyl, the ink sort of pools around it leaving a thinner layer next to the bit of dust.
No idea about the blue.
Mine prints are far more durable than the EcosolMax inks but if you were running the solvent inks before then I’ve no idea how they compare. Is the print going past the light too fast?

Steve

[Emyr Evans]

Thanks for the reply Steve, hadn’t thought of the spot being created by dust, we’ve had problems with dust before but it didn’t look like that.

The problem on the blue might be media as it was near the end of the roll – we had that effect all the way down the left hand side.

We used activasol full solvent previously, after changing the ink we can breathe better when near the machine. The biggest benefit is the quick drying time.
We only have generic profiles – no specific profiles were made for our media during install, would that cause any problems?

[Stephen Morriss]

Maybe but if they have done a few conversions on that printer then the profile should be close, they don’t alter much from machine to machine or Roland (and other manufacturers) wouldn’t be able to provide generic profiles either.
I got the impression that the ink doesn’t change much from material to material once the machine is profiled, the ink tended to either work or not.
I have a paper that just about worked with Ecosolmax inks but the UV ink loves it, but my printable reflective just doesn’t work with the UV inks at all. I also have another cheap temp vinyl that doesn’t take the ink very well but it was very cheap.

Steve

[Emyr Evans]

Could be a compatibility problem. When the lightbar was installed we were using Arlon and Vion vinyls, but now we’ve changed back to Hexis.
Haven’t had any problems with banner, paper, polypro or roll up media.

[Steff Davison]

Its been nearly 3 weeks since my last post regarding issues with my Lightbar install. I have purposefully delayed any further comments on this topic in order to give Colorific ample time to rectify print durability issues I am experiencing with my Lightbar

In the past 3 weeks, from my perspective, nothing has changed at all. I still have a brand new VSi 540 that cannot produce a consistent range of images which are durable enough for me to send out to my customers. I have 3 product ranges which I am confident enough to send out without lamination at the moment.

I produce all my current products on one particular media using the same Lightbar engineer customised profile. I can design 1 range of product and the print is fairly robust as regards a scratch test. I can then put another design through, exact same media profile etc and the print scratches easily. I have new products I want to start selling, I cant because the print isnt durable enough.

Mr Nick Wintle was kind enough to visit my workshop personally, after seeing the problems first hand he assured me that he would take charge of the ink durability issue on my machine.

Although Mr Wintle has replied promptly to my questions other members of his team haven’t. I asked for someone to email me a profile on Wednesday of this week, despite reminding them a couple of times and being assured the profile would be sent I do not have the requested profile. I was told I would be contacted with an update end of business Thursday, I am still waiting.

I have asked Colorific where the problem lies with my ink durability problem. I have not yet had an answer. I dont know if the ink " doesnt like the media" as other posters have observed. Is it a bad batch of ink? is the lamp faulty?

I was under the impression that because the company and product were part of the Roland Partner programme my investment in this technology would be a safe one. At this moment in time I am not so sure.

5 weeks since install…… not good.

Steff

[Adrian Hewson]

Hi Steff bonny lassie to be honest this is what I was expecting to see this is the reason we did not convert one of our four printers to this new device, maybe in a few years time

[Tahsin Niyazi]

Hi,

I was also looking at buying the lightbar and convert our VSI but from the feedback I have been hearing they are having to many issues that would seriously stress me out 8). Maybe in a few years once they have all issues fixed with these.
Some people are really happy with there conversions, so maybe it’s a roll of the dice.

I hope they get your issues fixed ASAP, so you can get to printing!.

Regards
Tas

[Andrew Blackett]

Havent updated my thoughts on this but having had it for a while at my previous employment here are my findings;

Scratch and durability were never an issue however maintenance was a nightmare – we had to do far more manual cleans on the machine before we could print as the ink would quite often not fire at all. Of late we even had to use ink renew a couple of times to resolve the issue.

Calibration was a nightmare too as the indicator lines were curved rather than straight – even our engineer couldn’t sort this. It appeared the ink was either the wrong viscosity or just different as we never had a problem to begin with.

The principal of the light bar is great but I do feel it needs some fettling to get it right.

Andy

[Kevin Flowers]

Quote "I was under the impression that because the company and product were part of the Roland Partner programme my investment in this technology would be a safe one. At this moment in time I am not so sure."

Steff sorry to hear you are still having problems but as i said this as under tones of B&P, technology moving too fast and users businesses end up being the testers of the system. Have you tried speaking to Roland maybe they can help apply a little leverage.

Kev

[Steff Davison]

quote Kevin Flowers:

Quote "I was under the impression that because the company and product were part of the Roland Partner programme my investment in this technology would be a safe one. At this moment in time I am not so sure."

Steff sorry to hear you are still having problems but as i said this as under tones of B&P, technology moving too fast and users businesses end up being the testers of the system. Have you tried speaking to Roland maybe they can help apply a little leverage.

Kev

Thank you for your reply Kevin, I have not thought about speaking to Roland at the moment, I am trying to work with Colorific to rectify the problems I am experiencing. I still believe that they should be given reasonable opportunity to resolve my problems. I suppose everyone’s interpretation of reasonable differs.

However I will say that my need to produce more profitable work from my machine doesn’t give me the luxury of too much time, Colorific are aware of this, and I hope that they will provide a suitable solution sooner than later. My machine needs to be producing more product, at the moment its not and the reason is the lack of scratch resistance on certain designs.

Steff

[Kevin Flowers]

Steff
if it had been my machine i would have expected them to be there pretty much continually until the problem was solved. As you say the machine needs to earn its money to pay for the chunk of change you paid Colourific for it. I’m sure Colourific want it solved so here’s hoping for a speedy resolution to the problem. Keep us informed

Kev

[Robert Lambie]

I have been reading the replies to the blog over the weeks and see a pattern forming with regards to profiles. So I thought I would add my opinion to the others offered…
Over the years i have had thermal printers, UV Flatbed, Solvent printers, HP latex 260 and even the new HP360.
Each one newly launched at time of purchase. Not a coincidence, but because I like to look ahead of what’s coming into the industry and purposely try to be in there early. However, I do do my homework and test what I need to test. I am not what I call a Print House, we are a predominantly "a Sign Firm"… that also offers printing, big difference in my opinion, so for me durability has always been paramount.

Let’s take the latest HP 360… it’s an amazing machine, very fast, great quality and easy to run.
To be honest, the same can be said about the older model HP 260. So it’s obvious to me why these machines are so popular around the world. Hence why I bought my second.
However… I use each machine for specific types of production.
The 260 purposely for van wraps and other types of production.
The 360 for truck wraps and everything else in high volume. Why?
Well because we have found both print better on certain types of media and both perform better with different types of media. Both latex machines yet perform different, great on some but not all our media. One also has better ink durability than the other, just Facts!

e.g.
I had two last minute roll-up stands to print for a funeral only last week.
Quality roll-up media used, yet simply buckled like puff-pastry and would not work in either Latex machine. Wasted 10 metres trying but gave up and stuck it in our trusty 12 year old Roland Soljet with a UV lightbar. It’s an old machine, runs painfully slow “in comparison to these new machines” but did it perfect with no adverse effects to the media and a more durable ink output into the bargain.
I noted the issue and will no longer buy the same roll-up media. I have now switched to a HP compatible roll-up stand media that also performs just as well in my Roland UV lightbar machine. Problem solved!
Note: The Roland lightbar didn’t have the problem, the HP’s did. but i was forced to switch media to have an all round compatible solution. I am sure you can see where i am going with this by now? 😎

I do not have to go over my thoughts on the lightbar, you can clearly read from my initial posts that I love ours. Like the HP machines, I have zero regrets in purchasing it. My point in what I have said above is… HP are one of the largest companies in the world. Their latex technology is amazing, but regardless, they have their problems, they have their limits. What YOU need to do is understand the limits of ANY machine you buy and use it to the best of its ability. I have even had to change my digital wrap media simply because I cannot get the red I want from my HP for one of my biggest customer. Pain in the ar$e but you do what you have to do… because I certainly wouldn’t replace the machine due to this.

Same applies with Roland back in the day on their eco-inks on first launch of their versacam machines. Shortly after changing to eco-sol max giving a more durable ink solution in what I call a “tank” of a machine… they just keep going! (touch wood) 😉

Stef, I am sorry to hear your problem but I can honestly tell you that you must have a rogue machine or simply an underperforming UV bulb perhaps. My prints are bullet proof and I have had various reps from different suppliers ask me about the machine when they are in my workplace and I simply show them a test. See for themselves And after it they are completely with me on its performance. All I can suggest is bear with colorific on it, I am sure you will be more than happy once resolved.
Stef, Out of curiosity, you haven’t mentioned the brands/types of media you are currently using?

Adrian, I do not follow mate, just like the Lightbar is, your 4 machines are simply converted Roland’s and probably just as new to the industry then as the Lightbar is now, when you decided to make your investment, four times over! 😛 This was also not long after uksignboards.com posted up yet another “ink durability tests” showing the durability of activasols ink over eco-sol. I remember you mentioning this at Sign & Digital exhibition whilst sat in the bar with me… 🙂
The company that did the conversion on your machines no longer exists, so you will have switched ink types yet again. Meaning profiling issues yet again…

James Sahota, shame on you mate. :tongue: You know fine well no machine comes without its pros and cons, especially with the wide range of media you will have to stock, as well as wide range of machines. 😉

All I can advise is that if you have a concern over profiles, give a list of the media you use daily for printing and make sure the machine has the profiles before it is delivered.

I haven’t been replying to this as much as I would like, but I do read every reply as it goes in. so please feel free to add to it.

[Steff Davison]

quote Robert Lambie:

Stef, I am sorry to hear your problem but I can honestly tell you that you must have a rogue machine or simply an underperforming UV bulb perhaps. My prints are bullet proof and I have had various reps from different suppliers ask me about the machine when they are in my workplace and I simply show them a test. See for themselves And after it they are completely with me on its performance. All I can suggest is bear with colorific on it, I am sure you will be more than happy once resolved.
Stef, Out of curiosity, you haven’t mentioned the brands/types of media you are currently using?

Robert, I do hope you are right and it is something as simple as a "rogue" bulb. The reviews given on this thread and also the fact that the technology and company are Roland partners has been a major influence in my decision to purchase the Lightbar. I wanted a technology that meant I didnt need to laminate for interior work, that was extremely robust to scratching. Your most recent comments even reaffirms how robust this ink technology is. Unfortunately the print being produced on my machine isn’t.

Its been 5 weeks since the machine was installed, we didn’t sign the installation satisfaction form at the end of the installation because the machine’s print durability was not performing to our expectations. An engineer from Lightbar who visited 10 days after the install confirmed that the print produced was not scratch resistant enough. I have a copy of his report.

I recently received an email (after my previous post) which stated amongst other things " Training and expectation is key, which is required here" I find that comment slightly insulting, it suggests that the print is fine and its my expectations which may be at fault. This statement may also offer an insight into why, from my perspective nothing has changed. If its my unrealistic expectations at fault then there must be nothing to fix. All the evidence suggests otherwise.

I have looked at both the HP360 and Mimaki SUV, after watching the demonstration I was invited to scratch the media so I could see how durable it was, the results were impressive, there was no visible damage to prints being scratched. Colorific recently told me that a scratch test wasn’t a real world test. Multiple replies on this thread mention how robust the print is to scratch testing, not once has colorific refuted these claims.

As regards " bear with colorific" that is what I have done, I have recently stated in communication with them that I still believe they will rectify the problem. I hope my assumption is correct.

As regards the media I am using, I wont name the brand because I don’t want to imply that their media is responsible for my problems. However I am using a media recommended by Colorific for the Lightbar machine, I cant do any more than let the manufacturer choose the media for their technology.

Steff

[Stephen Morriss]

Hi Steff

Are you printing onto vinyl?
Would it be an option to send some artwork to one of us to print onto vinyl?
The colours might not come out right but at least you’d have a reference to work from.

Steve

[Steff Davison]

quote Stephen Morriss:

Hi Steff

Are you printing onto vinyl?
Would it be an option to send some artwork to one of us to print onto vinyl?
The colours might not come out right but at least you’d have a reference to work from.

Steve

Thanks for your reply Stephen, I only want to print onto vinyl at the moment. It would be an option to have another member to kindly reproduce a print with their Lightbar set up, its not an option I have considered.

In my opinion it is Colorific’s responsibility to rectify the print problem. Using another member’s lightbar set up would only confirm what I already know, my machine and ink setup isn’t producing consistently scratch resistant prints.

Steff

[Stephen Morriss]

quote Steff Davison:

Thanks for your reply Stephen, I only want to print onto vinyl at the moment. It would be an option to have another member to kindly reproduce a print with their Lightbar set up, its not an option I have considered.

In my opinion it is Colorific’s responsibility to rectify the print problem. Using another member’s lightbar set up would only confirm what I already know, my machine and ink setup isn’t producing consistently scratch resistant prints.

Steff

Yes but you’d have more information, it doesn’t even have to be the whole print just the part your having problems with.
Anyway the offer is there if you want me to do a quick print, mines only cmyk though so it’ll not give you a true indication.

Steve

[Colin Crow]

I too was impressed with the durability of test prints and did for a while consider converting our Mimaki CJV30 to the Lightbar system, however I was put off by the waste of vinyl needed to pass the print beyond the lightbar prior to cutting.

Since that time I have spoken with several colleagues who implied that in their experience, Colorific ink quality has been too variable and that we had made the correct decision to avoid this system.

Reading through these posts, it seems to me that the problem either lies with the curing process or the ink quality since everything else has been checked by the engineer and others with the same system are clearly satisfied. I am not sure how you check the quality of the UV lamps but presumably trying a different batch of ink will be a simpler process and one that colorific can carry out at minimal cost.

I am not saying that Colorific are unique in this aspect as we have had a similar ink quality issue with our current supplier, but I will say that once they were aware the problem they immediately set about curing the issue and now all is well again.

Perhaps you could check your ink batch against others on here to see if anyone is using the same ink as yourself?

[Robert Lambie]

quote Colin Crow:

however I was put off by the waste of vinyl needed to pass the print beyond the lightbar prior to cutting.

Hi Colin

There is no waste as such mate. you simply attach a cutting of paper or vinyl, the "same piece" use every time you load the machine. this just allows the media a weight to feed itself behind the light bar on the first 18 inches or so as it spills out.

The same could be said about ANY machine were you loose up to 1.5m of media setting your media up on the take up system.

[Colin Crow]

Rob

Many of the jobs we produce on the CJV are shorts runs of stickers around .5-1m long, printed and cut in succession, often unattended and fed onto the take-up, sometimes 20 jobs in a row with minimal gaps in between.

For this to work with the Lightbar, each job has to be fully run past the lights to cure them before running back to cut. At the time we looked at this there was no sensible way to automatically push the print forward and then return to cut it without building in around .5m of extra vinyl into each job. I think the Roland software had some fix for doing this and also the Lightbar was closer, but with rasterlink on the mimaki it was not an option. It didn’t seem as if it had been thought through properly and any gains in durability and speed (we have to build in a 5 min delay with forced air drying) were offset by costs in both vinyl and the more expensive inks.

Overall it didn’t suit our mode of production but I’m sure it has benefits for other users.

Hope this makes sense.

[Robert Lambie]

quote Colin Crow:

I think the Roland software had some fix for doing this and also the Lightbar was closer, but with rasterlink on the mimaki it was not an option. It didn’t seem as if it had been thought through properly and any gains in durability and speed (we have to build in a 5 min delay with forced air drying) were offset by costs in both vinyl and the more expensive inks.

Thanks for the reply Colin… Hoping i understand you right here mate.

there is probably a different/better way of doing this now, however It wasnt a software option as such, well wasnt for us back in the early days of the lightbar. you simply send or add a small white blank to the end of the print/graphic which is stored in your RIP queue. because the software sees the white blank the machine feeds the media through past the UV lamps, but does not print white. then it is zipped back to origin point and begins contour cutting. very simple process really and should not matter what software you use.

what you do have at this point is :

* 100% cured Ink.
* Much better durability of the print.
* No curling back of edge printed stickers due to solvent occupancy in the media.
* No snagging, dragging of graphics contour cut on top of bleed outlines due to outgassing issues.
* Ink carts are slightly more expensive yes, but please see my initial post above regarding how much further they go. so your costs should be much less, definitely not higher.

At the end of the day everyone will make their own choice on what type of machine best suits their needs.
This blog has been made so i can share my experiences because all to often this site is used only to complain about a supplier or a product. very little do we read praise when things go right! 😀

[Colin Crow]

Thanks Rob

My conversations with Colorific said more or less what you describe works with Roland software but not with Rasterlink.
The white square would be processed only after the cutting was complete on the previous file. Equally, the next file in the queue would be processed after white square, leaving a large piece of waste vinyl in between each job.

As I said, this does look like an excellent product with the correct software and the additional support now from Roland does make this more viable. However, with Steph’s problems in mind it seems there are still some areas of concern.

By the way, we use a bulk system running Sun inks and the cost comparison with these is not so favourable, not to mention the convenience of much larger tanks. I did ask colorific if they intended supply a bulk system but they dodged the question saying it wasn’t necessary at this stage.

[Christopher Montgomery]

Hi guys,

I’ve come across this video based on the lightbar and I thought I would add this to this thread because it gives a good independent view from someone who is currently using the machine/lightbar!

https://www.vimeo.com/146388900

[Jonathan Dray]

Anyone have any more updates on this, how their machines are going etc as the last post was a while ago?

[Steff Davison]

In reply to Colin Crow
You do not need to send a blank file after every job, you can send as many jobs as you like through and they will all be cured except the final job. The final job needs the blank file to push the last job past the "Light Bar" curing lamp.

As regards waste media, I lose about 2 meters of every roll I put through the machine, attaching waste to the first job just increases the chances of the media getting tangled in the curing section. However I do use my machine for print and cut at the moment.

Regards
Steff

[Jonathan Dray]

Hi Steff,

Did you get your scratch-proof-ness sorted out?

[James Boden]

quote Steff Davison:

quote Stephen Morriss:

Hi Steff

Are you printing onto vinyl?
Would it be an option to send some artwork to one of us to print onto vinyl?
The colours might not come out right but at least you’d have a reference to work from.

Steve

Thanks for your reply Stephen, I only want to print onto vinyl at the moment. It would be an option to have another member to kindly reproduce a print with their Lightbar set up, its not an option I have considered.

In my opinion it is Colorific’s responsibility to rectify the print problem. Using another member’s lightbar set up would only confirm what I already know, my machine and ink setup isn’t producing consistently scratch resistant prints.

Steff

Hi Steff,

I’d be interested to know if you had your problem resolved by Colorific as well?

[Steff Davison]

At this moment in time I do not wish to express any opinions regarding colourific or my Solvent UV ink set up.

I am,however, in the process of purchasing a UV LED set up to replace what I have now.

Regards

Steff

[Jonathan Dray]

quote Steff Davison:

At this moment in time I do not wish to express any opinions regarding colourific or my Solvent UV ink set up.

That’s worrying.

When you said earlier you waste around 2M per roll of material, did you mean 2M every time you load / unload the roll?

[Jonathan Dray]

quote Andrew Blackett:

we had to do far more manual cleans on the machine before we could print as the ink would quite often not fire at all. Of late we even had to use ink renew a couple of times to resolve the issue.

Calibration was a nightmare too as the indicator lines were curved rather than straight – even our engineer couldn’t sort this. It appeared the ink was either the wrong viscosity or just different as we never had a problem to begin with.

Apologies if I missed it but what machine was this on? Was it a new machine from Colourific or a retrofit?

Thanks.

[Steff Davison]

quote Jonathan Dray:

quote Steff Davison:

When you said earlier you waste around 2M per roll of material, did you mean 2M every time you load / unload the roll?

I only print on one media type, so I lose 2 meters approx per roll. If I was swapping media over then I presume I would lose more, maybe 4 foot at the start of each job ( remember I print and cut so the media has to go back through the machine to cut). If I stuck a piece of waste on the front of the roll then I would lose less, but then I have the problem of the waste piece possibly jamming in the lightbar curing unit. If it was print only then I dont think you would lose much material because its only moving one way (out).

It also depends on the type of work your machine is doing. I can only tell you what happens when I print and cut a full roll of media. I am in the process of changing to print only with it ( I need more speed) and using a cutter separately to finish the job.

When I have information on how it performs as a print only machine I will let you know how much difference there is in the amount of waste it produces.

Steff

[Robert Lambie]

quote Steff Davison:

I only print on one media type, so I lose 2 meters approx per roll. If I was swapping media over then I presume I would lose more, maybe 4 foot at the start of each job ( remember I print and cut so the media has to go back through the machine to cut). If I stuck a piece of waste on the front of the roll then I would lose less, but then I have the problem of the waste piece possibly jamming in the lightbar curing unit. If it was print only then I don’t think you would lose much material because its only moving one way (out).

Thanks for the reply Steff.

Having read this I can only assume you are not attaching your bit of waste media to the roll properly or it would not jam, as you say. Even if that was an issue, watching over it for a minute till it passes the exit an inch is all that is surely all that is required.

Also, 4 foot of media each time? surely If this was correct the media you have fed through would be hitting the floor, rather than just past the lightbar.

Please read back to the first post i made in this thread. you will see the sole purpose of us keeping our old print & cut machine was for on board contour cutting graphics.

Latex…
I also have HP 360 Latex Printers as i have said. When they finish printing they too must feed the prints forward to pass by it’s heaters and fans to properly cure the prints. then it rolls back in before the media can be cut off.
I have also see prints from our HP coming out scuffed and on occasion jammed dependant on how much care has been taken by the operator watching the initial pass of media past the heaters/fans. And yes, this is happening without a cutting of paper attached to the leading edge.

We also have our HP machine set to "media cut-off" at 6 inches. this is an allowance for us to have a lead when we laminate after print. now if we do 50 single jobs at a linear metre each, that is 25 feet of waste per roll.

Of course, we are seeing a similarities of both here… and by a machine that is one of the most dominant on the market. However, the HP does NOT have an on-board cutter.

Laminating…
Pretty much any laminator on the market requires an initial setup with "each media type".
This setup requires the prefeed of the media around the rollers to align the film. is is easily two feet at a time. also, every time you load a new print to laminate you need to lose about 6inch of laminate between joins from one job to the next. and thats assuming you are laminating "everything" with the one type of laminate.

Solvent…
The Solvent version of your machine… had you just cut 1 or 1000 stickers in it. you would…
* Not be able to instantly contour cut direct to edge of printed graphics without the possibility of the blade snagging soft media due to Solvent content for at least 3-5 minutes at a time.
* even successful kiss-cut graphics may shrink on the carrying paper due to solvent content in the media, dependant on the media used.
* Solvent or latex printed graphics are not anywhere as durable as the UV prints.

Based on three different ink types and 4 machines mentioned, there is one major similarity. they all have different drawbacks and waste costs involved that must be taken into consideration when running them and pricing your jobs.

[Steff Davison]

quote Robert Lambie:

quote Steff Davison:

I only print on one media type, so I lose 2 meters approx per roll. If I was swapping media over then I presume I would lose more, maybe 4 foot at the start of each job ( remember I print and cut so the media has to go back through the machine to cut). If I stuck a piece of waste on the front of the roll then I would lose less, but then I have the problem of the waste piece possibly jamming in the lightbar curing unit. If it was print only then I don’t think you would lose much material because its only moving one way (out).

Thanks for the reply Steff.

Having read this I can only assume you are not attaching your bit of waste media to the roll properly or it would not jam, as you say. Even if that was an issue, watching over it for a minute till it passes the exit an inch is all that is surely all that is required.

Also, 4 foot of media each time? surely If this was correct the media you have fed through would be hitting the floor, rather than just past the lightbar.

Please read back to the first post i made in this thread. you will see the sole purpose of us keeping our old print & cut machine was for on board contour cutting graphics.

Hi Robert, thanks for the comprehensive reply. I could attach media to the front but I dont want to risk a media jam. I lose about 4 foot when I start the roll, its not a complaint, I just put it down to the cost of operating the machine.

Its not a case of watching the first inch pass through either. It may print a meter of a job, then rewind to cut, then it does what it does and winds in a bit more I think. On a couple of occasions I have trimmed off what I thought were completed jobs only to find the machine rewinds past the point I have trimmed off and I get maybe 4-5 ft of unfinished media laying on the floor at the back of the machine.

My machine is working for over 10 hours most days. I’d rather lose a meter or 2 of media than have to lose jobs, and more importantly time trying to save a couple of foot of media.

As you say every machine has a cost, my machine costs me about 2 meters a roll in waste. For those with more time to spare they could possibly save a little media by attaching a waste piece and watching it for (in my case) 30 minutes to make sure its got through the curing section unscathed for the first couple of jobs or three.

Regards
Steff

[Steff Davison]

Update

As per this thread, I have reported issues with the Lightbar technology scratch resistance, slow support service etc.
However, fairly recently I had a serious problem with my machine, which meant total loss of production Colorific got to me first thing the next day which meant my business stayed in production (and in business, that may sound a little drastic but I am an online retailer and 200 odd orders not going out on time can have a significant impact on my selling accounts)

I need to increase my production capability and have been looking at possible alternative machines which will give me instantly usable, hard wearing prints, a crucial requirement in the way I run my business and the market I serve.
I have looked at Latex options and UV LED options and when comparing the quality of the printed product the Roland Lightbar printed images were far superior to those of the other machines and ink systems that I have looked at , the colours were richer and more vibrant than the latex and for my main application not only were the images more vibrant they had a much better glossy finish than the Latex and UV LED curing systems.
OK so I can spend more money and buy a UV LED machine with a varnish channel, but unless I go with machines in the £100,000’s then I am going to have a machine producing 12m2 an hour if I’m lucky with a capital cost 4.5-5x the money of a Lightbar. I need to be able to produce just shy of 180 m2 per day to reach my sales targets, with instantly usable glossy vibrant prints.

Today I took delivery of my second Roland Lightbar machine.

[Kevin Flowers]

Steff
did you use the same vinyl as the latex would not necessarily print as well on the same vinyl that the light bar machine will

Kev

[Robert Lambie]

quote Kevin Flowers:

Steff
did you use the same vinyl as the latex would not necessarily print as well on the same vinyl that the light bar machine will

Kev

We have both latex and UV and the UV Lighbar print finish is much more vibrant, glossy and durable Kev.
Yes we used like for like in our machines. same media, same print file etc

Thank you for the update Steff, and good to know you now have two UV Lightbar machines.

[David Hammond]

Great news Steff.

Perhaps I was walking around with my eyes shut at S&D but I don’t recall seeing much about the lightbar? Unlike last year?

180m2 a day, :yikes: thats some going! :praise1:

I was pulling my hair out this morning trying to cut 40 sets of printed text.

[Robert Lambie]

quote David Hammond:

Perhaps I was walking around with my eyes shut at S&D but I don’t recall seeing much about the lightbar? Unlike last year?

It was on show on Roland’s stand David, as opposed to their own individual stand like last year.
They have now introduced UV white ink option with the lightbar which I am keen to keep an eye on the developments.

[Kevin Flowers]

quote Robert Lambie:

quote Kevin Flowers:

Steff
did you use the same vinyl as the latex would not necessarily print as well on the same vinyl that the light bar machine will

Kev

We have both latex and UV and the UV Lighbar print finish is much more vibrant, glossy and durable Kev.
Yes we used like for like in our machines. same media, same print file etc

Thank you for the update Steff, and good to know you now have two UV Lightbar machines.

That was my point Rob Lightbar may print really well on say 3M but the latex may excel on say Avery, i know we would normally compare same vinyl same file when comparing solvent type machines but 2 different types of ink may require 2 types of vinyl

[Robert Lambie]

When i purchased our first Latex I had issues getting the correct Red required for a fleet of vehicle wraps.
I tried Arlon, Oracal, Avery, 3M media and the only one to come close was printed on Arlon. The Lightbar hit the colour pretty much on them all.

When you print to digital media using the lightbar it is vibrant and gloss. When you print anything using the HP Latex, the finish is a sort of Satin sheen finish. Thats on any media, but most noticeable on vinyl media because anywhere in the print that has to be white, leaves the glossy white of the vinyl showing, where other areas with ink coverage shows a satin finish.
again, brand of media used is irrelevant, its same outcome unless matt finish base or laminated.

It is just something I quickly became aware of running solvent, latex and UV printers side by side in the same room, then there was ink durability etc. it was this and other differences that made me actually start this thread.

[Kevin Flowers]

See your point Rob just highlighting a possible cause of the differences, as you know it can be all to easy to rule a machine out when not given a fair trial. Watched the video of the new HP the other night looks impressive perhaps thay have improved the gloss levels with that

Kev

[Robert Lambie]

Yep, know where your coming from mate…
New HP is same as the HP360 but has a second optimiser, but the output is same.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the HP Latex and looking to purchase our third in 2 years. But the Roland UV ticks boxes that the latex does not.

As I have said in previous replies, machines are what they are. They all have pros and cons, the lightbar is no different.
But we are professionals, its upto us to do our homework before making a purchase. Thats why threads like this are great for those researching. If nothing else it arms the would-be buyer with questions they should ask about before committing.

[Steff Davison]

@ Kevin
I let the dealer decide which media they chose to print onto, I presume they would pick a media which showed the print in its best light. I also did quite a bit of online research which confirmed the problem with muted reds from the 300 series.

As regards how well it prints versus the latex, I have tried different media through my machine, it produces vibrant glossy prints on all of it (Its obviously gloss media to start with) I have looked at the finish coming out of the latex machines and it doesnt compare to solvent UV ink. I have given the latex more than a fair trial, as mentioned previously, if latex produced even comparable results I would probably be using latex now, but it doesnt. That may all change with the new 500 series machines. But I have decided to go with Lightbar because it gives me a better product for the application I produce.

@ David
As I have previously said I am not a traditional sign maker, everything I sell is pre designed and I am set up for fairly decent volumes for a small business. If I had to do what you do in your business I would have no hair left at all :banghead:

@ Robert
The white ink is another good reason for me to stay with the technology, I am developing another range which, although not crucial, would benefit from a white ink for more vibrant spot colour.

Steff

[Jonathan Dray]

Hi Steff,

I assume as you bought another machine you got over the durability issues then?

Thanks.

[Jonathan Dray]

Also, has anyone tried creating their own profiles for any of the lightbar equipped machines?

[Steff Davison]

@Johnathon

The print isnt as scratch resistant as Latex or UV LED inks from the samples I have tested. The print is passable for the particular application I need it for. Sometimes you have to compromise, I would like it to be better than it is, but it is what it is.

I have custom profile for the media I use, primarily for colour reproduction and optimal ink usage. As Robert has said previously its a "trade off" My costs would escalate if I laminated the product, and I would lose the advantage I have over competitors who produce with solvent inks.

I could have more durable print with latex, but I lose on colour vibrancy and gloss finish, with UV ink which I found to be the most scratch resistant, I have matt effect looking colours which are also slightly grainy (partly caused by the way in which the LED curing system is set up on the print head, so I have been told)

[Jonathan Dray]

Hi Steff,

Thanks for the reply. What material are you printing on? (Sorry if i missed it but it’s a long thread).

[Steff Davison]

I put one brand of Self Adhesive Vinyl through the machine. My machines are currently only producing 1 product.

Steff

[Andrew Edwards]

quote Steff Davison:

@ Kevin
I let the dealer decide which media they chose to print onto, I presume they would pick a media which showed the print in its best light. I also did quite a bit of online research which confirmed the problem with muted reds from the 300 series.

Steff

Hi

Just to update you re gamut in the Latex 300s – we now have the Latex 560 in and HP has addressed this point.

The combination of an extra Optimiser head and a more efficient curing system has allowed them to open up the ink limits allowed by the printer software. So whereas in the 300s you can set a max limit of 100% ink at 8 pass for SAV you can now use 120% ink for example. On top of this there is a vivid mode which can pour down up to 185% ink if required.

Thus we are seeing more vibrancy now with the Latex 500 series – not an issue for you now I understand but just for your info re the saturation point you make re the 300s.

The semi-matt finish of the ink is the same however as the ink is the same as in the 300s.

Hope this keeps you updated with the current situation.

Andrew

[Kevin Flowers]

Andrew
always good to keep us up to date with mods on the machines, saw the video of the new machine & it looks quite impressive

Kev

[Steff Davison]

quote Andrew Edwards:

quote Steff Davison:

@ Kevin
I let the dealer decide which media they chose to print onto, I presume they would pick a media which showed the print in its best light. I also did quite a bit of online research which confirmed the problem with muted reds from the 300 series.

Steff

Hi

Just to update you re gamut in the Latex 300s – we now have the Latex 560 in and HP has addressed this point.

The combination of an extra Optimiser head and a more efficient curing system has allowed them to open up the ink limits allowed by the printer software. So whereas in the 300s you can set a max limit of 100% ink at 8 pass for SAV you can now use 120% ink for example. On top of this there is a vivid mode which can pour down up to 185% ink if required.

Thus we are seeing more vibrancy now with the Latex 500 series – not an issue for you now I understand but just for your info re the saturation point you make re the 300s.

The semi-matt finish of the ink is the same however as the ink is the same as in the 300s.

Hope this keeps you updated with the current situation.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, I have seen the print produced by the 570 and the colours are more vibrant, it looks an impressive piece of machinery. The print finish was not as glossy as the Lightbar print, but life is full of compromises, Its much more scratch resistant than the print produced by the Lightbar machines.

I am seriously considering swapping part of my production over to Latex when the 570’s are available for shipping as I feel its more of a volume production machine.