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Trouble with Bubbles, advice please?
Hi Everyone….
Ok looking for help or advice.
Been applying vinyls for a good wee while now, on vehicles / signs / walls etc… But up until now i have not really had an issue with bubble in my work.
The last 3 jobs i have done have been riddles with bubbles and i dont know why. I done a signboard with some text on it and it was awful looking due to the bubbling, infact I was telling Robert Lambie that my 5 year old thought it was braille i had done lol. Anyway that was on an aluminium board which i had peeled the protective coating from, so i put it down to static. Luckily it was going high up on a wall so the customer wasn’t phased by the bubbling.
I then done a van and same again, followed by another big sign, same again.
Any ideas what can be causing them ?
Thanks
Robert
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22 Replies
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Yep I have the same problem, not big bubbles but tiny small ones, almost like dust under the vinyl. 🙄
Try a new squeegee, if the edge has a nick in it, that will put bubbles in your vinyl.
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Two questions spring to mind –
What sort of temp are you applying in? (Too hot a surface can cause you problems. If it’s the side of a van move it into the shade out of direct sunlight)
Are you applying wet or dry? If it’s hot using one of the application fluids that are available will help (Although I still prefer good old water with a couple of drops of fairy liquid to break the surface tension of the water too much and you be sliding around all day, too little and it’s still a bit ‘grabby’. Obviously you wouldn’t use water with an acrylic adhesive) 🙄
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Sorry guys….. just got back in.
OK Temp….variable, so dont think that is the issue….. Squeegee, again i do have a few diff sorts and pretty much was trying them all to enliminate them. Wet or Dry, again I was trying both, even tried soaking the application paper to let that come off with less pull to see if that made a difference.
On the last job i done, I ended up lifting the decals bit by bit to re-lay, but although the bubbles would flatten a bit, I was still getting left with like the outer ring of the bubble underneath. Like a glue ring which would not flatten.
Only think that i have changed is the cleaning of the panels. I have been using isopropanol now, so whether this has anything to do with it I dont know.
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No IPA won’t cause any problems, it’s pretty much all I have used from the start, if nothing has changed other than you are now using IPA as a cleaner then you shouldn’t be experiencing any difficulty what so ever.
There has to be something else going on as well, I would also have said Temperature, squeegee as the main factors along with bad technique when it comes to bubbles, you say you have already eliminated 2 of these so that really only leaves technique. Are you trying out a new or different way to use the squeegee at all? -
Thanks Martin
Ye technique. Again I thought of this, and with me being more aware of its possibilty of happening, I tried using diff strokes etc to see if doing one way would be better than the other. The more I talk about it on here I am leaning towards it being in the cleaning process. It’s to many bubbles, more like a rash. So I am now wondering if the spray bottle I have the IPA in is possibly breaking down chemically and this is causing an issue.
So on that basis I think I will ditch what I have and start again with new stuff…
Does this sound like a good route to try ?
Cheers
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Biggest problem with IPA is it breaks down the seals of spray bottles which causes them to leak but I have never had a problem with it causing any kind of contamination, are you sure the bottle you put it in was clean & completely empty? I make sure I wash out any bottle I am going to use. What cloths are you using with it as it will take the colour out of blue rolls of paper towel.
You say you have checked the squeegee but as well as physical damage bowing on the edge of the squeegee will cause you problems. You can sharpen/remove the bow rubbing it against the centre ridge of another squeegee. -
Clothes…. Ye I don’t really use any particular type, poss could be that.
Why would the edge if a squeegee cause rash/bubbling ?
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Robert
Have you completely eliminated the possibility of it being tiny dust particles?
This is the easiest thing to get wrong, and it is the vinyl applicators biggest nightmare.
It can come from anywhere, – your jacket, the roof – and at any time in the process.
Even in the vinyl from a reputable factory. I have heard stories of people finding insects trapped between vinyl and backing paper half way down a new roll. Pull back the vinyl to the bubbles and have a jolly good look under there with a magnifying glass.
I would lay odds there is a little grain of dust in the middle of each one.Simon.
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what gets me is those tiny bubbles that appear about 30mins after you’ve applied a nice smooth job!
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Ye def not dust, its bubbles.
Very frustrating
I will attach a pic of the signs, not that you can see the bubbles from the pic (hopefully), but it will show the kind of text etc….
Thanks
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guessing this is onto composite board Robert?
have you changed your brand of vinyl or application tape?personally, going by pictures only. i would say its squeegee technique.
tell tale sign there is the crease on one of your letters.if you have changed media, something simple like the media having a higher tack than your used too will do it.
room temp as has been said, humidity too… all promote adhesion particularly onto the likes of a painted surface of super smooth face like acrylic and composites.
basically, your laying your graphic flat down and by time you get to squeegee it down its already starting to tack.
you need to levitate the letters and squeegee towards them laying them as you pass over. hence why im saying its squeegee technique because if you get this correct it wouldn’t matter what media your applying it should still work regardless.best of luck mate…
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Alright Robert, how you doing fella ?
Crease on a letter, crease, enlighten me lol
The board is the aluminium with the plastic centre, materials are various. There Is Ritrama, Oracal 651 & 751.
The last van I just did (pic attached), I used a new material to me anyway DeTape, It felt really nice and soft to use, especially when weeding. But again lots of bubbles. I did contemplate whether it may have been my application papers tackiness, so I even tried soaking it to remove it, which did make it remove easier but never helped regarding the bubbles.
Technique…. I do use a new technique which I learned recently on one of they wrapping courses, the instructor swore by it…. he was a bit of a bomber, but had his good points…LOL He looked identical to that wee Dec fella from TV.
Anyway that’s neither here nor there, I am scunnered with it as I like perfection and I wouldn’t be happy to accept the work.
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Infact people…. see if you zoom into my white property hygiene sign that I have done you will see the bubbling and how bad it is.
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Only think that i have changed is the cleaning of the panels
So the only change is the cleaning……… apart from the application technique & brand of vinyl lol
Eliminate things one at a time, cleaning well if you are using rags/clothes then these may have been washed or contain something that is reacting with the IPA, I use white 2 ply paper roll, it’s cheap from janitorial type supply companies, I normally buy a case of 6 rolls at a time, don’t buy the blue paper as IPA takes the dye out of it & leaves blue smears 🙄
Application, go back to the way you were doing it to see if this improves things, no harm in learning new techniques but do it on practice jobs until you have it right, if the edge of a squeegee is damaged or bowed it can let air underneath it as it’s not maintaining an even pressure across the blade.
Vinyl, why are you using so many different brands? Vinyl is a very small part of the job cost, if your chopping & changing to save a few pence per metre then you aren’t charging enough for your work, best to stick mainly to one brand, learn it’s characteristics & how best to apply it, there are minor differences between them but most of the job is about confidence & once you know exactly what you can do with a particular vinyl it will help your confidence no end.
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I know Martin. Lol.
I really go between the materials, not to do with cost as they are all a muchness. It’s more because I work full time, decals is just something I do on the side at night etc. So if I need vinyl then it’s just where I can go and get it when I am available to. If you know what I mean.
Did you manage to zoom into the board and see the bubbling ??
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I hadn’t done but have now, afraid that wouldn’t have gone out the door to my unit no matter how high up it was going.
Does look to be something like squeegee action as Robert has said already, think he is talking about the second "A" in Galarae when he mentions a crease.
Do you keep a record of what brand & colour of vinyl you use for each job? Might not sound important but if customers come back for the same thing done again then you need to use the same brand to ensure the colour is a match. -
Robert, if you look at the cropped sections of your sign ive attached below.
Look at the smaller black text.
the bubbles are only appearing around the perimeter of the smaller letters.
this indicates squeegee technique or a combination of loose/slack application taping or high grab vinyl. such as a cast.
if the application method was correct neither should matter.
but loose applied application tape can cause issues like this because your going from no surface tension where the tape is to surface tension where you squeegee rides up over the letters. preventing proper expulsion of air below.a bit like… have you have double tapes a word with two bits of application tape? when you remove the tape your letters are applied good, but there is a line of tiny micro bubbles along the line of the double layer of tape. same thing applies, bumping over the double layer trapping air.
also…
look at the red letters….
you can see ive indicated the crease which will be a result of squeegeeing angle or the vinyl that has already tacked down.
also, another thing that indicates squeegee motion, angle is look at the yellow lines ive drawn. you can clearly see definite lines of bubbles indicating your squeegeeing is not correct. as your missing swipes or similar.of course this is just guess work based on pictures you have provided. 😀
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Do you think application tape could cause the bubbling ye…. It did cross my mind that I have had that roll of tape since day 1… Does it have a shelf life ?
As for the crease on the A. It’s def not a crease, must be a reflection from something. I have attached another pic that i have of it. Coming from an angle. Nothing on the A. I would take any creasing out if they occurred.
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Another
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The applying of the app paper is interesting. As I prob don’t pay as much attention now to the pressure etc that I use in initially applying it onto the vinyl. You could have poss cracked it there Robert.
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We floodcoated 3 panels on a van today… tried reducing the angle of the squeegee (hard to explain) and got much better results, we also went mad with the cleaning prep.
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Yes application tape does have a shelf life but no idea what it is. I have had tape that completely lost it’s stickiness when not used for a long time & I also had one roll that sort of went the other way, seemed to be more sticky but I couldn’t use it at all because no matter how careful I was it ripped as soon as it started to come off the roll.
I’ve never come across the problems with application tape that Robert has mentioned so I’ve learnt something new as well :lol1: :lol1:
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