Troop RIP 6.5 views and opinions?

[Ali Osman]

The first troop was a cut down version of flexi- designer I think?
The program was a fully fledged design program with the rip included so you could design and assign colours add contours etc.
The later versions were just a rip, rolands color-rip i think.
The original flexi version in our opinion is far superior, hence bp trying to claim it back when we bought a new machine and replace it with the awful wasatch /roland rip…as you can imagine we said …not a chance!

The flexi based design / rip is just so versatile I cant see why on earth they changed it, ok it hasnt got all the features of flexi-pro, but once used I dont see why anyone would want to change to the later version, maybe it was a licensing thing from flexisign/ scanvec that decided to not allow them using it and re-badging it anymore..the newer version of troop is nothing like the original, completely different so yes you’d have to learn a whole new rip from the start, not good when you have everything printing perfect, quickly and without fault.

[Robert Lambie]

ok some things your jogging my memory with, some you have me confused. :lol1:

Roland RIP is NOT Wasatch, not as far as i know anyway.

I think your right the initial troop was a watered down version of flexi but you could CUT from it. they may have switched to wasatch here and that’s when the cutting module disappeared. that would mean i have this version and NOT the very first version i said i did. 🙄 hope im not confusing you readers here. 😉 😳

[Ali Osman]

quote Robert Lambie:

ok some things your jogging my memory with, some you have me confused. :lol1:

Roland RIP is NOT Wasatch, not as far as i know anyway.

I think your right the initial troop was a watered down version of flexi but you could CUT from it. they may have switched to wasatch here and that’s when the cutting module disappeared. that would mean i have this version and NOT the very first version i said i did. 🙄 hope im not confusing you readers here. 😉 😳

I sure the bundled rip that was supplied by roland was a wasatch produced rip for roland, this i assume is just a new troop version sold rebadged?

You could cut vinyl from the original troop as it was flexisign designer, you couldnt in the new troop, just add a contour…thats not good! compared with the original where it was a complete sign design program not just a rip, when we bought a new machine from bp they specified they wanted the original troop returned with the px machine, we said not a chance.

[Robert Lambie]

im doing all this from memory mate, so dont take my word for it… nearly 5 years now and im getting old… brains not what it used to be. :lol1:
ide really be surprised if the roland rip was wasatch, but hey-ho… what do i know. 😕 :lol1:

[Russell Huffer]

Rob,

Only a limited knowledge but here is all i know about Troop/Wasatch my first version was 6.3 Roland edition from B&P i got given a free 6.4 upgrade a few months later. I then payed about £400.00 to upgrade to a released version all makes of printer and so was also entitiled to free 6.5 upgrade a couple of weeks ago.

6.5 seems to have more control over colour etc while profiling, i have found it very easy to use and B&P supply a good range of profiles, these profiles are more suited to vinyls like Metamark etc that can take a lot of ink, i have had to have someone in to profile the likes of LG that can not take as much ink and pool easy.

I also have the cutting add on as my printer is print only and it is really easy to use to cut.

One of the guys i had in to do some profiles is a Roland engineer and also used to work at B&P whilst he is not a printer he does work with these things day in day out so i aksed him about rips and how good is wasatch he basically said you need to get the rip that is most popular for your printer ie sharaz on a Mimaki as this gives you the best chance of finding profiles, he also said that wasatch was his prefered rip.

I find it a good rip to use and easy to understand and make adjustments but have never even seen another rip working so can not do a direct compare.

Regards

Russell.

[Peter Normington]

wasach is on version 6.5 I believe
is it a coincidence?

Peter

[Ali Osman]

quote Peter Normington:

wasach is on version 6.5 I believe
is it a coincidence?

Peter

The original roland color-rip which was supplied with the versacamm is a wasatch rip and was at one point rebadged as troop and useless. The original troop is the flexisign designer made by scanvec aimable, versaworks is the latest for the v machines although these rips are just that just a rip

[Peter Normington]

quote Ali Osman:

quote Peter Normington:

wasach is on version 6.5 I believe
is it a coincidence?

Peter

The original roland color-rip which was supplied with the versacamm is a wasatch rip and was at one point rebadged as troop and useless. The original troop is the flexisign designer made by scanvec aimable, versaworks is the latest for the v machines although these rips are just that just a rip

Ali, you really cant make statements like "useless" without qualifying it.

Its like me saying Landrovers are useless,

and expecting you to believe it.

you may well be right, but please try and give reasons.

as for "just a rip" isnt that what most people use for processing their artwork?

Peter

[Ali Osman]

quote Peter Normington:

quote Ali Osman:

quote Peter Normington:

wasach is on version 6.5 I believe
is it a coincidence?

Peter

The original roland color-rip which was supplied with the versacamm is a wasatch rip and was at one point rebadged as troop and useless. The original troop is the flexisign designer made by scanvec aimable, versaworks is the latest for the v machines although these rips are just that just a rip

Ali, you really cant make statements like “useless” without qualifying it.

Its like me saying Landrovers are useless,

and expecting you to believe it.

you may well be right, but please try and give reasons.

as for “just a rip” isnt that what most people use for processing their artwork?

Peter

Have you ever used color-rip?..If you have and obviously you haven’t you’d know its useless. I notice you’re always so argumentative, and seem to have this compulsive illogical ‘pecking order’ complex to anyone new, which alienates new members? Its not a good trait especially when you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re not a moderator here and have no authority to question my professional experiences and valid comments, so please don’t expect anybody to treat you like one. I certainly won’t. Get over yourself!
My comments were to the original poster of the question of which I gave professional comments and evaluations of using the software, not for someone who doesn’t even use troop/roland hardware just to try and score brownie points with ‘the boss’.
Let people speak on things they actually know about and refrain when its no concern of yours.

[Peter Normington]

Ali, I have not questioned your professional experience, or comments.
this is an open forum, and if you say something is useless, then I have a right to ask you why, you are the one that appears to alienate people, by stating things without substantiating them,
Sorry if you think I dont know what I am talking about,
but thats your opinion,
Yes i can be arguementive, and i give no excuse for that, it should encourage debate and discussion, Thats what I believe this site is about.
I may be right or wrong, as you may be, it is for others to make up there own minds, i do however avoid Knocking anything, without saying why.

Why would i want to score brownie points with the "boss" Far from it
I quite often slag rob off as i am sure he will confirm 😀

Peter

[Ali Osman]

quote Peter Normington:

Ali, I have not questioned your professional experience, or comments.
this is an open forum, and if you say something is useless, then I have a right to ask you why, you are the one that appears to alienate people, by stating things without substantiating them,
Sorry if you think I dont know what I am talking about,
but thats your opinion,
Yes i can be arguementive, and i give no excuse for that, it should encourage debate and discussion, Thats what I believe this site is about.
I may be right or wrong, as you may be, it is for others to make up there own minds, i do however avoid Knocking anything, without saying why.

Why would i want to score brownie points with the “boss” Far from it
I quite often slag rob off as i am sure he will confirm 😀

Peter

And this has helped in anyway? Where’s your input? there’s nothing here in your body of copy that relates to the original question? your sole reason for repling to this is just to aggrieve and be a catalyst to cause bad feeling, not debate.

Please learn when not to comment if its just going to be ‘off topic’ as you really are not helping in theres no positive input.

[Peter Normington]

I did ask why you thought troop was useless,
that was relevant to the post, if you care not to eloborate, then fine.
your choice, all i did was ask for your reasons,

and so your a self appointed moderater now?
Peter

[Ali Osman]

quote Peter Normington:

I did ask why you thought troop was useless,
that was relevant to the post, if you care not to eloborate, then fine.
your choice, all i did was ask for your reasons,

and so your a self appointed moderater now?
Peter

Goodbye, I have no time for fools Peter.

[Peter Normington]

quote Ali Osman:

quote Peter Normington:

wasach is on version 6.5 I believe
is it a coincidence?

Peter

The original roland color-rip which was supplied with the versacamm is a wasatch rip and was at one point rebadged as troop and useless. The original troop is the flexisign designer made by scanvec aimable, versaworks is the latest for the v machines although these rips are just that just a rip

Well it may have been your how you
phrased the above sentence, that misled me, and I apologise if i got the wrong end of the stick,
but the principal is still the same, can you please tell me why, in your opinion, was the rebadged rip "useless" so that i may gain from your experience.
Peter

[Russell Huffer]

Each to there own opinion as i said i can not do a comparison as i have not used other rips but certainly the impression i got from the engineer that profiled my machine last month is that Wasatch is up there with the like of onyx and Shiraz.

Peter not a coincidence that troop and wasatch are both 6.5 they are the same product. my first copy 6.3 had a troop splash screen at the start etc but help file where all wasatch but from 6.4 onwards all troop branding has disappeared and i download from the wasatch website, i think troop is a term still used by b&p but they have given up pretending they have there own rip as everyone knows it is wasatch.

Rob how many files do you have per profile, i ask because when i started to use metamark at the end of last year the only profile they had for md7 was version 4 i tried to use this but it would not work, i spoke to metamark who confirmed that version 5 and 6 profiles where wasatch and version 4 where flexi, main difference that i could see was wasatch has about 6 files per profile but flexi only had 1.

Regards

Russell.

[David Rowland]

Back on topic please, stop fighting!
I wonder if anyone could provide screen shots of Troop or file structure?, we do a RIP side by Side breakdown if needs be. I have always been interested and would like to continue a RIP sidebyside breakdown.

I have Shiraz z6.4 running JV3
I also used/tested Onyx Production House, EFI (Xerox), Caldera, Compose, ErgoSoft-GandiSoft and ColorGate Productionserver to this date. I have seen Flexi, Wastach but not seen Rasterlink pro, Roland RIPs or cadlink options.

I think there is a lot of confusion who makes the actual RIP engines as Shiraz, Wasatch and Onyx are all licensed to use the JAW’s engine from Global Graphics who are the people behind Harlequien RIP used heavily in the Litho industry.

EDIT: Just read some of above now.
A re-badged RIP WITH support from the developers company is worth doing, but I prefer if they didn’t rebadge them and just said it was the real product. Ideally u want RIP support by the devloper company and not a print supplier.

[Steve McAdie]

I use troop 6.1 I’m upgrading to latest version soon. My supplier quoted me £430 I think. I don’t know if you can buy straight off them as when I contacted them by e-mail for info my usual supplier phoned as they had passed on inquiry to them. What I particularly like is the new ink/cost estimator, also it is now 16 bit rendering and my version is 8 bit. I find using it very easy and have not had any problems at all with it so have never felt the need to upgrade but the estimator looks a very helpful tool.

Steve

[Alan Drury]

Ali – I’m not a moderator and I don’t even have a printer but I could easily be a buyer in the future I personally would appreciate knowing the benefits over one rip to another, I assume you have this experience and I would like your opinion.
Alan D

[Robert Lambie]

thanks for all the feedback so far folks… ill reply with some more questions shortly.
i was going to break this thread as it was gong slightly off topic, but i wont unless it continues. i am not taking any sides here but would like to make one point.

There is only one type of critisism accepted on this site and that is "constructive critisism". if we are qualified enough to slate something we should have no problem explaining why?

for example,
if we post our work in the gallery section and a reply is made saying "that is a poor design". i am sure "we" as the topic reader or even the poster, would like to know why it is bad?

same goes for any subject….

lets say the same comments made on troop were made by someone that worked for a RIP software company. would they be acceptable?

of course not…

anyway, i dont want this thread to go off on one… if it does ill just split it and bin the off-topic posts.

anyway, back on with the thread please. 😀

[Russell Huffer]

With regards to RIps i think that you maybe need to look at not what is the best RIP because it has to most features but what is the best RIP for your circumstances, remember icc profiles are only written by most suppliers for the most common combinations Shiraz/Mimaki Roland/Versawork Uniform/Troop as we all know profiles can be thin on the ground most of the times but no real hope of finding any if you decide to use Shiraz to drive you Grenaider with Activasol inks, so you will always end up compremising or getting a profiler in.

Steve the cost estimater in 6.5 is a bit of a novalty but very interesting, the other day i printed a 3×1.8M banner that was just black and red text, i ran it though the cost estimater and was surpriesed to learn that black ink usage was third and alot more magenta than black had been used in that print, provides an accurate way to track ink cost for price analysis.

Regards

Russell.