Travel costs

[Nicola McIntosh]

hi mark 😀

i never put the break-down costs on any invoice, just what the job involved, saves a lot of bother, and customer always gets the cost before the jobs done 😀

nik

[Brian Maher]

just curious…were you not informed of the travel distance before you took the job on?
if not then maybe you should have mentioned it to the client once you found out,before invoicing for the job, i’m sure you could have worked out a deal to suit you both..

as for the invoice…its best to only give a detailed breakdown when requested..

its like a garage servicing a van/car…. service job costs 120 quid but when you see it costs 8 quid for the windscreen washer bottle to be refilled with water 👿 ??? :lol1:

[Mike Grant]

You were in the right to do what you did. I would have done the same, but I would have called their bluff and said that you wouldn’t travel and they would have to deliver them to you. TIME = MONEY simple maths!

[Peter Normington]

I would go same as Mike,
If they found a sign company near the other site would they travel at no extra cost to your locale? doubt it .

Time is money, anyone in business knows it, call their bluff, if they can get a better deal, forget and move on.
Market forces rule, but at the end of the day only you can decide how much to charge, not your customer,

peter

[John Childs]

I’m with Mike as well.

We charge £1.00 per mile.

If they don’t want to pay then we don’t go.

[Peter Normington]

Sorry, little bit of misreading, 😳
Mike agreed that you were right to do what you did, but you agreed to waive the travel costs? if that’s correct, I think you did the wrong thing.
Maybe you could have done a deal, but made it plain that your costs for traveling would be charged for in future. If they want one car doing 400miles away, by waiving the cost on one job, they will expect it on all of them.

Peter

[John Harding]

Mark – I agree with all the above good advice, you must have a travel rate as well as a job rate otherwise you cant price effectively.

John

Ps – personally I would tell em to take a hike, otherwise they will drive you out of business by dictating your rates.

[Mike Grant]

quote Peter Normington:

Sorry, little bit of misreading, 😳
Mike agreed that you were right to do what you did, but you agreed to waive the travel costs? if that’s correct, I think you did the wrong thing.

Sorry that did read wrong, I meant that he should have not reduced his bill or waived his travel costs.

[David Rogers]

Judging the tone I think any future work is blown now anyway as relations have been soured.

You will either be scammed into doing two cars 200 miles away for sweeties – they have basically blackmailed you with a threat of no more work…or you’ll never hear from them again…and to top it all you’ve just lost your time & money on this job.

Like the others advise – good idea not to itemise unless you have to in a quote.

Travel, down-time & fuel costs money – they understand this, but just saw an opportunity to con you. Hell, I’ve done jobs where the travel was about 8 hours at £350 and the parts were a £5 bag of screws…of course you’ve got to charge for it.

Ah, well. Let’s hope you made a decent profit otherwise.

Dave

[Robert Lambie]

as has been said, you gotta charge for the extra time, fuel etc simple as that. your in this to make money mate… fine if you got stung this time you will learn… but in future, ask where its being fitted.

unless huge JCB type jobs and the like, were i dont have to worry about perfect, dust under vinyl free fittings… i refuse to work onsite outside fitting a vehicle. questions like where is it being fitted, will it be inside… if inside under what conditions? (oh yes ive been told before its inside… but inside a barn with a cow behind me trying to pinch my squeegee from my back pocket :-?) anyway, this might sound all to much to ask but waite until the same customers van is fitted and he spots some dust thats blown up from the building site your fitting his van on, or the small crease caused by the wind blowing your vinyl together, say, "ehh your gonna fix that yeh?… what do you mean you cant?…. ill get a discount then i hope!) 🙄

[Shane Drew]

I think the only thing wrong is that you did not tell them ahead of time. Certainly adding the costs to the bill later would have upset them. It would me too.

I waive the travel costs for consistantly regular work, especially if they are good payers. I would have divided the 6 cars by the 3 hours travel and been happy that I was only travelling 30 minutes for each vehicle.

I build a minimum 30 minutes travel in to any quote anyway, so in theory I would have considered myself covered.

That said, you’re probably on the back foot with them now, so I’d guess they’ll keep an eye on any future invoicing that you give them.

Just my 2c’s though. I try not to itemise a bill either.

I had a client once that objected to me charging a courier fee to send his DIY signs. They were a good client that would easily spend a few thousand dollars a month. I held my ground, and although they paid the bill , I lost their business for 3 years. Call their bluff by all means, but be prepared to lose the business. Over here, I’ve got 5 or 6 sign shops that would be happy to take my place and offer free this and free that.

Cheers

[John Childs]

Although I generally agree about not itemising costs on quotes (they gotta know beforehand), I think that travel is an exception to that rule. I want them to know that their van cost only £x and that the rest was avoidable costs.

If anybody complains I agree with them that it is expensive point out that they could save money by using a minimum wage driver to do the running around rather than have one of my expensive fitters pounding the motorway.

About half of them see the logic and bring the vans to us, which I prefer, but the other half, who are either too lazy or just can’t be bothered, simply pay the costs. At least they all understand why the costs are incurred and have the opportunity to mitigate them.

[MartinDenton]

I agree with John it is important to separate travel from the actual job, otherwise you can be seen as too expensive when comparing notes with local sign-makers, who don’t have to travel.

The other key point is get the quote physically signed off by the buyer before commencing work, preferably with a Purchase Order, detailing exactly what they are getting for their money. If additional costs creep in along the way keep the relevant person informed as to their actual/likely costs in writing, e-mail is ideal as it is casual but you get read receipts etc. You are seen as working with them on the project rather than for them.

The reaction of the client which seems unfair may well be due to having somebody above them in their business that they have to answer to in terms of the increased costs which could be outside the budget allocated and there is nothing louder than yell of a client who is having his or her a.rse kicked by somebody else.

Kind or reminds you of the Japanese war films you used to see where the colonel would slap the captain, the captain the Sergeant , the Sergeant the corporal etc.

I would say there are lessons to be learnt from this, i bet it wont happen again.

[M Brown]

Hi Brian,

I knew the distance that I would have to travel. Its just that the company had a quote for doing cars at a local branch, and then sent me to do the other car 75mile away, and they took it upon their selfs that the price would be the same. Its like me saying to my suppliers that I’m not paying for delivery

[Gary Birch]

I would say 90% of my jobs have a price agreed with them before I even set the cutter going. It works for me …. well most of the time anyhow. The other 10% is always difficult…. I had a guy who moaned at being charged £25 + VAT for some vinyl lettering which I had hand delivered to him as he worked just around the corner from the bank, I offered to take it back so he could go elsewhere, he soon backed down.

You just have to stand your ground with these people or they just walk all over you. That said I do understand how it feels when they are a decent customer and you need there work (or at least you think do).

Gary

[Brian Maher]

ok…i’d stick to my guns in this case and tell them the price… its up to them if they dont come back…

we all have customers who feel they can push us to work for peanuts cos
"they have a guy that can do it for ££’s less.."

in these cases we ask
" if he is so cheap and appears to be so good…why did you even ring us?"

being upfront with customers is the best option..
"this is what i can do…this is what it costs.. and this is when i can do it.."
if thats not good enough then you’ve lost a few minutes rather than doing the job and trying to sort it out after 😕
you’d be better off not taking the job…and working for someone who will pay you for your time and services..

as we say…. " no point being a busy fool"

[Gert du Preez]

I normaly specify travel cost on the estimate, based on AA rates, and then lull the client into acceptace by offering a 30% discount on those rates. It also depends on the size of the job. And the possibility of repeat business. Also be sure to include overnight charges if you have to drive far, and do a big(ish) job. Where we work Travel and Accomodation frequently cost more than the sign job. It is not unusual to do 1000 km each way, to intall a single lightbox or sign worth less than the fuel you used! If they still wont accept, you’re better off without their business!