traditional signwriting sounds interesting should i do it?

[sammyr]

stick with the vinyl, it aint no good dabblin with stuff you dont understand

[John Singh]

Hi Noel
If you are just starting out probably the easiest route would be vinyl graphics.

Traditional signwriting is another discipline altogether. When I went to night school in ’76, there were about 25 applicants that started the course.

The following week there were about 20
the next 15………..

eventually down to 3 (and one of those was a fully qualified Watney’s Brewery signwriter who was simply there to learn ragging and rolling along with graining etc)

You’ve got to have the desire, the passion and a love to go along this route. To some extent you realistically have to have a measure of layout skills and a mastering of the brush, pallet and mahl stick technique.

There are now few schools left. I can’t think of any

I am not saying do not pursue this. But if you do decide to go down this route go with your eyes open.

If you are good at it then fine, there’s money that can be earnt
If not then you will end up going around car garages and the like asking if they want a quick sign done. One way to learn alright but it won’t earn you the shekels needed in order to survive

John

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Hi Noel…
I meant to welcome you in the other post but I have been very busy.
I beg to politely differ with the above opinions!
Learning brush skills can benefit ANY sign artist!
Learning to create basic letter forms teaches you how they flow. It makes you a better designer knowing the building blocks.
Get Mike Steven’s book “Mastering Layout”. Read it. Buy a few brushes and a can of 1-Shot lettering enamel. No need for a mahl stick (I only use one on job sites to LOOK like a sign painter!) Buy some turpentine to clean your brushes and to thin your paint. Use baby oil on the brushes after cleaning them to keep the hairs soft. And practice, practice, practice. Get a friend who has a plotter to make you a pounce pattern if you are worried about drawing your own letters. Or make your own.
It is beyond me why any sign maker would discourage another from painting. And if you can find one, attend a live Letterhead meet!
I can’t count the times I have painted a simple drop shadow rather than fooling around layering vinyl. Paint is far cheaper than vinyl and you can charge more for it per job because folks will pay for your time & talent.
Don’t give up without ever having gotten your brush wet, my friend! Give it a try! It is rewarding and relaxing! Good luck.
Love- JILL
😉
PS
Some of the prettiest painted signs I have ever seen were in the UK!

[Henry Barker]

Hi there,

Bill Stewart wrote a good book called “Signwork” which covers loads as far as traditional signwriting goes.

Contact A.S Handover in London for brushes or lettering enamels, they also stock lots of other products and books that may be of interest.

When I first moved from the UK to Sweden, I thought I would do a mixture and really looked forward to that, I had a Gerber lettering machine and no shadow module so I cut text and painted drop shadows on things, but when it came to vehicles most things are leased and so painting was not really appreciated. I got into sandblasting signs and paint them instead.

Sure the market is vinyl dominated, and looking around you can knock out some top class vinyl signage, but its fun to use other mediums too.

Just got interupted now while writing this, by phone, somebody asking about a handpainted sign for the old part of Stockholm (700 years old).

I think today thereb are some good niche markets, and while it may be quicker to knock out vinyl all day, which is alot of what we do, its very satisfying to sit down and paint too, and I still believe there is a market for both.

[steve]

It would be very interesting to hear from Brian the Brush on this string he still makes a good living out of pushing the brush I learned all my skills at College doing signwriting the “best years of my life” but the other guys are right its not possible to both learn traditional signwriting and vinyl skills from scratch they are an ocean apart! it is truly a niche market client bases are so difficult to amass no money to be made

[Terry Bull]

Full marks to Jill,well said

If youve ever created a peice of lettering with just a brush you would understand the satisfaction that can be experienced and the emotion
that can be displayed by just this simple tool

Sure it takes many years to master ,I can be the most frustrating tool to
handle but by making letters with a brush you get to learn and observe shapes ,positive and negative space and all the elements to sign design

Unless you have experienced the passion that traditional writers have for their craft it is easy to shun it but if anyone has ever fancied having a go then i say good luck to them ,sure they will have to shop arround to find the right opportunities to use these skills but believe me SIGNWRITING IS NOT DEAD
its just that less people offer it
my brushes are used at every opportunity

want to learn traditional signwriting ..go for it

sorry ill get off this box now

[Jill Marie Welsh]

AMEN, BRUTHA!
(and YOU blow my frock up, Terry!)
Keep it wet!
Love- JILL
(colours)
Noel…just give ‘er…to quote my pal Stevo

[noel hurse]

Wow! Seems to me you guys who have used a brush have a real passion for the craft. I’ll have to ponder that one. great to see so many different views. I’ll look at the books & catalogues & go from there. You know with making the body boxes & all I really like a bit of craftmanship & you never know when it may come in handy!
😀 Jill tthanks for the belated welcome!
Noel

[sammyr]

sorry but i’ll say again, if you dont know it dont touch it, vinyl is the game now, paintin is a limited market.

design, layout & colour balance aint anything to do with paintin, they are seperate disaplins that can be learned & developed, so stick wiv the vinyl……………..but mike stevens is great for the layout stuff.

[Henry Barker]

Sammyr….not sure about the “if you don’t know it don’t touch it bit” 🙂

If I followed that line I would never had tried or suceeded with many things, I make signs not for making loads of money (made more in the music business) but because I really enjoy what I do.

I agree with you about learning the basics of design and that not having anything to do with what medium you use. You can make some cracking looking vinyl signs.

That said good handpainted signs often look and feel much more alive than a sterile vinyl creation, maybe all this is lost on customers, who never see the diffrences.

I think if someone is keen to have a go at painting why not, I have the full range of One Shot and Deka sign enamels plus a good selection of brushes, all of which was cheaper than a couple of rolls of vinyl let along all the other bits and pieces needed for making vinyl.

So if he’s got the vinyl set up and looking to expand his talents why not…I am repainting a sign now which wouldn’t look right in vinyl, here’s still a market for both.

I also think that in the future there will be a backlash towards digital this that and the other and people will want more traditional looking stuff again too….but then again what do I know 🙂

[sammyr]

yeah enry, i know but over here unless you specialise its no good lookin to paint, & i dont agree that running a sign business isnt about makin money, it is, otherwise only do it as a hobby & dont sell it, & because its ‘vinyl’ dont mean you cant enjoy it, again i’ll say its all about good design skills not the medium.

paintings good if its your thing, otherwise it’ll take you a long while learnin, anyway if someone wants paint, cut a low tack mask & paint in the letters !!.

by the way, i paint too, but no call for it.

[Lorraine Buchan]

quote :

if you dont know it dont touch it

Well no one would ever learn anything like that!

Must be breading a new race of humans who are born with the knowledge

[Bill Dewison]

Its a New Labour directive isn’t it, prenatal intelligence implants that inform you of what your tax bill will be upon birth, give you an assigned job, usually in the local Citizens Advice and mentally prepare you for huge council tax bills. 😆

[sammyr]

quote Dewi:

Its a New Labour directive isn’t it, prenatal intelligence implants that inform you of what your tax bill will be upon birth, give you an assigned job, usually in the local Citizens Advice and mentally prepare you for huge council tax bills. 😆

wot?

[Bill Dewison]

*drink* What can I say?

Cheers, Dewi

[sammyr]

a lot more than that, i’m not into criptic messages, plain speakin is always best !

[Stevo Chartrand]

Okay! I gotta say sumthin!
Noel I commend you for wanting to learn about the CRAFT of makin signs. To me this shows that you do have an interest and understanding of what signmakin really is! Sure I’m a vinyl jockey at work like the rest of ya but i do make an effort to actually sling a brush every weekend and attend letterhead meets to better myself as a Sign Artist. And i did know how to draw and paint a letter before i actually touched a machine.

And it does peeve me off to hear comments like Sammyr has to say, because that is what is wrong with the signmaking world today. To me thats saying why bother to learn anything new and why learn the roots of what you do when ya got a machine that can crank tons of pedestrian crap like the rest of the shops in your town.

Extremely Closed Minded Thoughts on Sammies Part.

Noel pick up a brush a can of one shot and practice, it is good for the soul!
There is nuthin more pure than that!

Stevo

Just Give ‘er!!!

[Allan Weyman]

I have got to go with Sammyr on this one. I have a traditional signwriter who buys a lot of vinyl from me, he is like a many guys my age (50ish) and has a mental blockage when it comes to computers (not me I might add I have had them since 1984). I know although he makes a living he struggles a bit.

As I see it unless it is an honours board or something like that forget the brush. Another simple example: the other week I signed up a new transit (in vinyl) and had to copy the design of a painted job he had done before. It looked better (a lot) it was far cheaper, and the main thing was I was given the job by a local garage who sold him the new van and they told him that they would have allowed a further £500 in part exchange if his old van had been done in vinyl. As it was they have had to completly respray it.

Funny enough although untrained I am a reasonably good artist and have done large murals in paint before (in the late 60’s!) I was even in this game and I find it totally boring I just want to see the end result get paid and get on my way. (I like Sammyr don’t do this job for fun believe me profit only, sad maybe but fact)

But what ever floats your boat and maybe unfortuanately as with the atomic bomb and the motor car. you cannot un-invent the computer.

Regards Allan,

(better get off and some work, what I’am I doing here playing on me laptop, sad or what!)

[Bill Dewison]

Ugg, morning after the night before… (yawn)

On a more sensible note (or sober note) I’m of the opinion that whether its vinyl, hand-painted or carved, the customer wants a product. They may want it to look crisp and clean, old and battered, whatever. They just want a sign at the end of the day that does the best job at selling thier business.

Saying that I think its kind of short-sighted to say stick with vinyl, stick with what you know and all that. You’ve only got to look at some of the demos, tricks and tips posted on UKSG to see that medias can be mixed with some stunning results. I may be wrong here, but Noel hasn’t actually said he wishes to learn sign painting to make a commercial product, he simply wants to learn the art. Who knows, he may be a natural at it and produce works of art with a single brush stroke.

I understand the guys who’ve been in the trade a good few years who just want to grab the cash. Fine, nothing wrong with that, but if Noel wants to explore what he’s capable of, why not? Again, who knows, he may come up with some highly sellable stuff that earns him nice tidy profits.

One last thing, I may not have been in the sign trade for 5 minutes yet, but I have been in business for myself for most of my working life. Not all customers/clients are cheap skates, not all want something for nothing. Granted, there are alot of ppl who want it cheap, but there are ppl who will pay good money for quality stuff. The one thing I’ve discovered, not always to my benefit, there is a market for any product, all you have to do is find the right person at the right time who wants what you’re offering.

I’m off to nurse my hangover,

Cheers, Dewi

[noel hurse]

WOW!!!
Didn’t know you guys could get so heated. Let me see if I can wrap this one up. yes i can’t wait to try the brush, the airbrush, the chisel etc because to me trying these skills will a) possibly open new avenues b) give me a greater understanding of skills & crafts c) inspire new ideas & directions that may assist me in any aspect of design & production. I believe there are such things as multi media signs! Ther is more than one way to make a sign.
But at the end of the day for most its about making a living. Who wants to struggle for their art. Principles don’t pay the bills & you can fall off a high horse! And lets keep politics and other cryptics out of this. This is a good bunch of people. RESPECT!
Noel

[sammyr]

Hi Noel,
Glad you read the real message within the message & not just cop the hump like some others, dont know if i’ll bother any more cos it seems that everyone wants to agree & pat each others back, but I like to say what i want, GOOD & BAD, because it aint no good smooching on a subject when someone is really lookin for good advise.

hobbies are HOBBIES, business is business, enjoy it but dont lose sight !!

remember if you want ANY help with the airbrushin just let me know I’ll be really glad to help.

[noel hurse]

sammy
you look like a pretty cool dude! Keep a cool tool! newcomers like me need it straight form guys like you. I believe its called constructive criticism & straight ahead advise. In my day job you have to act with restraint and so a bit of HONEST well meant advise goes a long way (check airbrush forum)
noel, 😎 keepin it real!

[sammyr]

Cheers Noel, looks aint everyting, they dont show the real you, its whats in the heart that counts & god gave me a carin heart.

i’ll help anyone! wiv an open mind

[Phill Fenton]

quote sammyr:

Hi Noel,
Glad you read the real message within the message & not just cop the hump like some others, dont know if i’ll bother any more cos it seems that everyone wants to agree & pat each others back, but I like to say what i want, GOOD & BAD, because it aint no good smooching on a subject when someone is really lookin for good advise.

hobbies are HOBBIES, business is business, enjoy it but dont lose sight !!

remember if you want ANY help with the airbrushin just let me know I’ll be really glad to help.

That’s good advice – Thanks for your honest opinion Sam. I really hope you keep them coming as it would be a shame if you didn’t bother anymore.

I happen to agree with you – there is a very limited market for traditional signwriting so unless you are doing it for the art or for the love of doing it – then you really shouldn’t bother.

Let’s not forget, we are in an age where we use the tools available to us. If we are creative using computer graphics it is equally as valid as being creative using a brush and paint. You can be creative and an artist by using the computer (Just look at Mike Browns work).

I’ve looked around and I can see with my own eyes that there are equally lots of examples of poor layout and design using traditional signwriting methods just as there are plenty of examples of poor design and layout using computer cut vinyl and digital printing.

You can be a great artist using modern methods – you don’t have to use a brush and paint to produce great work (Having said that I do not wish to deny the fact that there are some great artists still using brush and paint).

If you want a viable business and you are not already an experienced signwriter, then I would take Sams advice and look to the future of signmaking which is (like it or not) computer aided design 😀

[sammyr]

thanks phil,
was feeling a bit lonely here, but you also seem to grasp my overall meanin, earn from wot you are good at & know, u8sing the profit from building that successful business will give you the ability & funds to dabble further for either personal pleasure or diversification, , the other way round is a road to disaster

[brian the brush]

The debate goes on…. and on…. and on…and on. The fact is that to become a traditional signwriter takes a lifetime to learn, the skill and precision required can only be matched by a surgeon and his knife!!!!!
There now seems to be a lack of respect in the trade for the “keepers of the craft” who are the true masters of the trade.

Brian the Brush
http://www.brian-the-brush.com

[Phill Fenton]

quote rightsigns:

If you want a viable business and you are not already an experienced signwriter, then I would take Sams advice and look to the future of signmaking which is (like it or not) computer aided design 😀

😉

[sammyr]

@@keepers of the craft”……………..move on do, its nobodies domain other than those participating in the real world with real demands, we look back to past experience to provide insight into the prosent commercial & design demands of today.

no respect is lost by the more traditionalists, but contempory methods can incorporate traditional methods with mixed media projects, mixed design solutions & mixed production methods, please, please let go of this them & us mind set & move on, EVERTHING IS VALID. !

[Allan Weyman]

You are spot on Sammyr and I agree there may be a bit to much patsy backie, I like a guy who says what we thinks.

I also think that is a pretty high handed comment ‘Keepers of the Craft’. My Bother in law served a long apprentiship in type setting in the print trade, no less skilled than a brush painter, then along came the Mac, Quark Express & Photoshop. He had to move on and damn quick or become a milkman or something.

It’s no good harping on about the past, we must move on. I used to do manual draughting, I was one of the earlier ones to move into CAD and I have never looked back, there is absolutely no comparison to the old manual way of doing drawings.

I may be 55 but if a new invention was to come along to revolutionise the way we are doing things now I hope I have the foresite to jump on board. In fact maybe it is with us now with the new breed of Large format sovent printers on the market. I say to the vinyl men ‘Ignore them at your peril’

Allan

[Henry Barker]

Sammyr you make some good points but you come across at first a little bit differently….like just don’t bother to learn an “old dying trade”.

I think that what gets alot of traditional brushfolk upset or defensive, is how they see what they took years to learn being turned on its head by masses of talentless, moneygrabbing cheapskates, who will never even bother to learn about layout or design.

I don’t think that you feel signwriting is dead or should be burying it quite so fast. I meet people regularly who want something abit different, not your usual vinyl and forex or whatever.

I make a good living with my business, but diversified into more unusual areas to give myself a niche and to sustain my interest, in being creative rather than a machine operative, that includes painting, airbrushing, sandblasting (in house) and traditional vinyl work, and yes I have an Edge too.

Bottom line is nobody should be discouraged from learning any aspect of this trade, as a businessman or woman you should be aware of what market you are establishing, or going for in order to stay in business.

If there was no market for brushwork why would AS Handover still be in the market of handmaking their own brushes, and have a very extensive catalogue of signwriting supplies.

“Keepers of the Craft” or the Letterhead movement is more about people who want to share techniques ideas and the spirit of making good signage irrrespective of what medium it is, and encouraging people at all levels of skill and achievment, its not some club for the elite, nor is it made up of a load of “has been” brushpushers.

There are plenty of people making a good living using a brush and still will continue too long after all your digital machines have been superceded over and over again, beacuse we live in a world where were not all the same, and where techniques can be combined well, its not about them and us.

10 years ago I met a 3M rep who said the future of signmaking was white vinyl……maybe in his world not mine….and this is not a hobby 🙂 but its a great way to earn a good living. Using different mediums everyday.

[Will]

This ones run for a while! heres my tuppence worth- does anyone remember that old IBM ad. Something about a guy digging a hole with a JCB, another guy says `you should be ashamed, ten men with shovels would have had employment before ‘ to which he replies `yes, and we could employ an army if we issued them teaspoons’ GOOD BUSINESS ADVICE is the topic, there are other forums for discussing a techniques artistic merits & we all have bills to pay….

[Steve Broughton]

and what does the digger driver do when it breaks down? “get the shovels out lads!” 😆 a brush, a computer, a printer, what have these things in common? they are all tools. A good craftsman uses EVERY tool at his disposal not just one.

[John Singh]

quote :

I am not saying do not pursue this. But if you do decide to go down this route go with your eyes open.

If you are good at it then fine, there’s money that can be earnt
If not then you will end up going around car garages and the like asking if they want a quick sign done. One way to learn alright but it won’t earn you the shekels needed in order to survive

This is from my earlier post

I reiterate the above:

I still use the brush and when opportunity comes up I simply love it
It is one of the greatest feelings of satisfaction that one can get
In executing that gracious Trajan or other ornate letter
Knowing that it was down to your experience in handling the brush

Many times I would stand back and admire my handiwork (and also heavily criticise it, for this is the way we improve.) I do not do that so much with vinyl (As I say not so much as with traditional, and many traditional signwriters know what I mean). Although I do get great satisfaction from vinyl and the work that I do because as some of you have already said its all about design, layout, colours, challenges and ultimately hearing your customer’s satisfaction.

As I think Terry said: SIGNWRITING IS NOT DEAD

I find that more and more customers are requesting brushwork
These tend to be Restaurants or businesses that want that little extra something particularly in certain parts of the central London
That little personal touch!

In fact I get calls that start out with the question “Do you use the brush?”

I have also said in another thread: People, that is the General Public, have come to understand that lettering and signwork WAS done by brushwork in the past but now nobody does it anymore.

To ask for it would be a bit like asking your neighbour to give you a shout when the man comes round on his bike to sharpen your knives for you

People have been a little conditioned that way. And in truth, if you only deal in vinyl and a customer comes to your premises or shop or phones you asking for a sign to be painted what are you likely going to try and sell him. Would you proceed to tell him about the beauty of traditionally hand painted signs if you only do vinyl? I think not! You want his business!

The general public may only think in terms: ‘I need a sign! I know there’s a sign shop on the high street’ And so he makes the trip up the road and does his business there because he believes that is where one gets a sign done. No more investigation, its the easiest route that we all like to take sometimes.

Does the traditional signwriter who only has his signwriting box and who has not yet entered into the digital age of computers and plotters worry about this? Most emphatically Yes they do

The two traditional signwriters that come to me for there vinyl worry immensely. This is the real world!! We have to pay the bills. They moan continually and wish they had the ability to catch up with the computerised world. Gradually they are using more and more vinyl. Is this because they have lost the love of the brush?? No Its simply survival

These two signwriters are struggling and they are damn good signwriters one trained as an apprentice many moons ago. Although the many years I spent as a traditional signwriter were most enjoyable, the truth is it was tough

Thats why I say sure: Pursue it if you have the desire but go in with your eyes open. If it is tough for guys who have been in the business all their life and who are skilled craftsmen it is not going to be a piece of cake for the novice.

At the same time we should be encouraging ones who have a desire to paint, to do so. I had that desire and would of welcomed any encouragement at the time.

Your circumstances also dictate as well
are you a bod on your own?
Or are you the only breadwinner with progeny and aging grandparents

If any one has the passion GO FOR IT

But don’t forget that this is the planet Earth

John

[Allan Weyman]

Blimey John that was a bit high brow, you lost me, went right over me head some of it I must say, especially the bit about aging grandparents, still I suppose you knew what ya meant.

I will say this though, I came into this because I was a CAD designer and surveyor, (wished I’d have stayed one actually but that is another sad story) and I have never had anything to do with signwriting prior to that. I personally think my computer design experience probably set me up better if anything for this challenge than a traditional signwriter (I also do digital printing small and large format and have never been a printer either).

I will also say if anything conventional brush signwriting and modern vinyl and digital work are almost different trades end of story, and maybe that is why there seems to be so much disagreement here.

Allan

[Andrew Ward]

I have a great friend who i turn to for Signwriting.But i somtimes use Stencils and brushes 😕

[Will]

Ok Ok, now honestly, how many of you involved in yhis discussion are FULLY FLUENT at practicing trad. sign techniques? Honestly? and, say someone did ask you for a hand rendered sign in the last year or six months, that is not frequent enough practise for your talents to not be rusty, whereas all the vinyl jobs you did would be fine as you do that everyday: dont lose sight of the perspective of this discussion, namely that you really cant do a bit of both as hand rendering is highly skilled(have a look at some of the older greengrocers shopfronts if there are any left in your town, it is beautiful work and not for your jobbing vinyl cutter) Also our friend who initiated this discussion wants advice on how to make a living in the sign industry, Its not practical for him to learn from scratch how to hand render including all the broad knowledge you need of suitable fonts, kerning, weight etc. and I think you all know this! No I think theres something else at stake here & thats various peoples pride. I am a screenprinter & proud to be one, but I wouldnt consider for a second trying to screenprint fine art, because I know I am not an artist. a`true craftsman’ DOESNT have to encompass every conceivable related topic, just try to be as good as you can be at what it is you tout yourself as.

[Will]

Oh and Johnalphasign? That guy on the bike comes to my place once a month to sharpen my guillotine blade!

[Steve Broughton]

quote Allan Weyman:

I will also say if anything conventional brush signwriting and modern vinyl and digital work are almost different trades end of story, and maybe that is why there seems to be so much disagreement here.
Allan

Sorry mate but thats total rubbish, same trade different tool thats all, there are hundreds of signmakers that use both, go and have a look at http://www.letterheads.com there’s about 4000 on there that use a brush and a computer 😕

[Allan Weyman]

Steve,

Each to our own opinion but I will say this I can’t use a brush, my signwriter mate can’t use a computer, he could probably learn to use a computer, I probably could not learn to use a brush. Are we really in the same trade or different trades in the same business? as a carpeter and a bricklayer are both in the building business but totally different trademen.

Allan

[Steve Broughton]

Not a good analogy mate as a Brickie and a Chippie dont produce the same thing, but a brush and a computer both produce signs and yes you can learn to use a brush, signwriters aren’t born they are taught. It doesn’t matter what you use brush or computer, Ive seen some bloody awful signs produced with both and some truly beautiful ones too.

[Nicola McIntosh]

what a fab topic!

i do both, since i was five i used to watch my dad signwrite regal tobacco signs! that’s going back a bit now! i love it and would recommend anyone out there to try it! anyone who is in the sign business, like me is in it for the love of it! i know you will get p*** off at this, but money comes second to me! i love my cad system as you have to keep up with everyone else! but give me a brush and a pot of paint, you won’t see me for hours!!

Nicola

[Allan Weyman]

Nik,

That’s is my point you have summed it up. In most cases because you are an artistic person you are doing it for pleasure, profit is a distant second. But that don’t butter no parsnips. It must be a real pleasure if you are asked to do a traditional pub sign or some hand painting for a film set like I have been asked in the past, about 3 or 4 times in 11 years of trading!

Listen I used to have an old boy who used to come down my shop, he was a bank manager all his life and had retired. He taught himself signwriting with brush and absolutely loved it. He would do hours and hours of work for local businesses and charge virtually nothing (sometimes actually nothing!). He could afford to on a bank managers pension, he done it purely for pleasure, his hobby and good luck to him.

Allan

[Will]

bit rude to dismiss an informed opinion as total rubbish …

[Allan Weyman]

Don’t worry Will my shoulders are more than broad enough to take a bit of flak, it’s half the fun.

Allan

[noel hurse]

I kind of wish I’d never asked the question!!!!!!!!
I come to this trade an enthused novice> Luckily I’ve no ‘baggage’ on this one. I’ve started on the pc but I’ve got total respect for those who have a craft I envy you with those skills. Can I learn form you, yes. Can I learn from the pc’ers, yes.Traditional ‘ideas’, contempary ‘ideas’ for all to learn from, yes.Respect for everyone trying to do the best they can,YES.
Noel

[sammyr]

well, aint it nice, & about time to have an unhiddered proper discussion on a subject, maybe thats what we should all be heading towards, & less of the’mutual aderation society’ comments.

99% of the jobs & designs taht appear are between good & excellant, those that fall shorter that than should be big enough to accept advise from more experience people, with all aspects of our TRADE contributing, withou it demishing into a criptic, bitchin session.

i’m still hopin this is the place to be………………..we’ll see.

I do note that there a one or two out there who seem to have this open sympathetic mind, “appropriate tools & meterials” to suit individual job, with end profit margin ALWAYS in mind.

i do gold leaf as a hobby, afetr leaning wiv Dave Brown in torquay, spectaculally talented guy, but cant sell it to anyone, they wont pay the price, so the designs i use for this i transpose into vinyl techniques & they now sell.

[noel hurse]

Sammy
Amen to that!
Noel

[John Singh]

Nicola said:

quote :

! but give me a brush and a pot of paint, you won’t see me for hours!!

Sounds great Nicola: Listen! I need my bathroom decorating and also the back room!

You should get loads of request now with a statement like that 😆 😆

John

[Allan Weyman]

Hey Noel don’t regret it it, it kicked off a nice debate, (well I certainly enjoyed it).

Allan

[sammyr]

well hi again Noel, nice to hear from you, you follow my line then yeah?

may be if i’d put on a more apealing face it would have helped settle in?

[sammyr]

Hey, Dewi, thanks for the pm message, cant seem to reply on the pm system, but appreciate your comments

cheers

[noel hurse]

sammy
like you said its whats on the inside that counts. we’ll get more out of this bunch by shaking it up a bit. excuse the pun but keep calling a spade a spade!
Noel

[Bill Dewison]

Its the difference in opinions that seem to really get to the bottom of things. I understand alot more about both sides of the signmaking trade now.

Sammyr, no worries, as a newbie to UKsignboards I’m learning the hard way that what you type can often be miscontrued. Also not to operate a keyboard when under the influence 🙂

Cheers, Dewi

[John Singh]

One thing about this board though is the bringing together of those who have been in traditional game and those who are using the more modern mediums. There is mutual respect

I must say I have thoroughly enjoyed the different and varied threads.

I have learned a great deal from this board. It continues to be a source of valuable information.

Over a period of time we have submitted stuff we have had the pleasure of putting together. Welcoming ideas from across the board in order to see where we can improve or just to proudly show the other guys some of our work.

One thing for sure is that we all respect one another and the work we do whether traditional or more computerised. If this is patting on the back then heh! What’s wrong with that? Its quite strange how far I can go when someone pats me on the back, so I say lets keep on patting.

John

[Allan Weyman]

Hey Dewi, are you on the syrup again, the way you spelt Misconstrued.

Maybe we should kick off a topic of our worse spelling mistakes. One of mine was I put SPONSER WANTED right across the windscreen of my Camaro race car and got a nice picture of it in Autosport, did I take some flak I can tell you. Also I put an add for signwriting in the back of a mag that stated ‘Proffessional Service’ not good especially as I had type set it!

Allan

[Phill Fenton]

Not only that Allan but you can’t even spell Alan (two L’s – cuh! :roll:)

[Allan Weyman]

No Phill I spell it the English way i.e. correctly. Why do all Americans insist on spelling my name Allen.

Allan

[Phill Fenton]

And there’s me – I ‘ve spent a lifetime spelling my name with two L’s just cos me dear old departed dad couldn’t spell 😆

[Bill Dewison]

For embarressment value, add an E to the end of my name and I become one of a cartoon trio created by Walt Disney 😳

It is interesting to read this thread as it shows where people are coming from. There is no doubt that business in general is becoming more difficult as the consumer expects more for thier money but at the same time with a reduction in price. Having the luxury to learn/add new skills is obviously not available to all, but imho if you have the time and inclination, why not?

Cheers, Dewi

[Allan Weyman]

Yeah Dewi, they want it cheap, they want it best quality and they wanted it last week but they forgot to place the order so the want NOW…….

Allan

[Allan Weyman]

Sorry it’s passed me bed time should have read ‘and they want it NOW….
but you all knew that did’nt you. (I’ll have to learn to proof read)