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Tip for lining up vinyl on a van
I’m probably teaching my granny how to suck eggs here, so for all that do this already i apologise, but for someone who is self taught and learns via trial and error, this wee trick has just saved me so much time lining up graphics on this van.
I’ve started using a string line, especially handy on the newer vans where there is no straight line to work from. Below are a couple of pics of the bonnet of a Renault Kangoo i’m doing today. I’ve run a line across the bonnet using the top point of the headlights as my marker. This gives me perfectly straight line across the bonnet and lining up the vinyl takes seconds. The same principal applies to the sides. I make a mark 400mm up from the sill, run the line from front to back along these marks and that gives me a straight line that everything is measured from. Hope this helps anyone who is just starting out and struggling to get things straight.
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53 Replies
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It works. My dad did the very same thing the other day on a new shape connect.
Until recently I used to cram as much text as I could onto the vinyl, and cut it all out any old how, now we cut each bit with its own weed boarder, weed our the text, leaving the boarder, then app tape & trim so they’re all nice and square, it makes a huge difference when trying to eyeball graphics, and you can measure to the bottom/sides of the backing too.
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Ive always used a weed border but never tried a line before. The two together save so much time, yes you waste a bit of vinyl but i reckon on a van i probably waste about a fivers worth. Nothing in the grand scheme of thiings
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It’s not so much the vinyl cost as the time.
I’ll often overcut a weed border to the creaseline / panel edge so zero measuring or lining up.
Can lay up your average work van in about 40mins…
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40mins :yikes: I assume thats juat positioning the vinyl not incl application? How long would it take you start to finish?
When doing sign boards I often cut a weed board to align with a corner or egde of the board, makes it a breeze to apply.
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I’m doing a Hilux just now, will be finished cutting and weeding in about 20 mins. Will see how long it takes to apply. Never timed it before
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Ok, admittedly not the most complex of jobs but including wiping down the panels it took me exactly an hour. Amazing what you can get done when the phones not ringing lol
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quote David Hammond:40mins :yikes: I assume thats juat positioning the vinyl not incl application? How long would it take you start to finish?
When doing sign boards I often cut a weed board to align with a corner or egde of the board, makes it a breeze to apply.
No… that’s laid!
Might be 30-40 mins on design, 20 mins preparing a cut file to maximise vinyl and still keep useful registrations.
Say an hour to cut and weed…and 10 mins to clean it down before 40 mins to lay it (dry)…and probably never use a tape measure.ie typical 2 colour plumbers swb transit with medium coverage…3 hours total
Dave
I’ll load up an example of what I do tomorrow. In the gallery for example the swift & green was a small van although van size doesn’t that much difference (unless it’s huge)…30 mins design plus 10 mins logo redraw, 15 mins for a cut file layout, 40 mins cut, weed, tape and cut out, max of 35-40 mins to fit it. I can be silly fast at weeding and trimming out is all ‘freehand’ at high speed (blade follows the outer edge on it’s own)…all edges / panels are thought out as part of the original design / cut file. Any inlays / overlays done by tagging one end and tensioning the vinyl over it to line up (doesn’t stick unless hot,), .. it’s all in the preparation and constantly looking to get more efficient…I even have 5 different sizes of squeegee…most common is a 2 foot wide for applying application tape…none of that rubbing a little 4" over it…thats for fitting vinyl only… and a handy spacing guide…right up to a 5 FOOT wide to apply prints to 10×5 panels (2 man job though).
PS. Great idea with the string and magnets on the original post!! Might pinch that…
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Wow that’s quick, how do I delete my previous post? lol
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:claps: :claps: 40mins that’s impressive. :praiseyou:
Think the best we’ve done is 90mins, we usually have to turn the van around to do the other side too which can be a pain.
Dave we need a video 😆
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Will try & cobble something together one day with a selection of the techniques I use.
I often get some VERY disappointed customers turning up to get their van FAR too early and absolutely NOTHING is on the van…it looks like I’ve just taken their van and sat around all morning.
It’s all sitting on the bench – stacked per side so (and I’ve done it) I don’t stick the bonnet logo to the back doors and then have to peel off, recut etc.
selection of magnets and position the prespaced (usually a top or side register) panels. If it’s not warm / baking in the sun I can fold back the backing on the RHS and rub down…then strip all of the rest of the section, tension it and tag in place…going back to the start to rub down – up/down arced strokes from centre to prevent creases…lifting the tape and retensioning if required….or if you have a dogs-body – they can hold the piece under tension.
Bonnets being curved, but smaller – slighty different. Same start RHS but only remove half(ish) of the backing. Hold tight…work in arcs…squeegee in teeth to free other hand – remove all backing – tension and rub down.Dave
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Did this van this morning – simple builder type – cheap ‘n’ cheerful budget livery.
Still using the same oversized panel registration and leaving letters / dots to line up any 2-colour parts.
Brief before he came in was burgundy van, name of business and "I want gold with the ‘my builder’ logo and 2 phone numbers and my address".
Arrived 8:40 – spent 25 mins sorting it out and adding in the details to a photo of it.
I already had an idea of what I’d be doing and a library of ‘roofs’ and logos to use.Never trusted the van layouts to be accurate…faster for me to print it out and write in dimensions.
Make up sized box file and cut file by half past 9.Took an hour to cut, weed and tape…did some calls and cleaned down the van while I waited on the plotter.
Started the application at 10:22…and walked away from a finished van at 10:58…even I was surprised… :awkward:
3M 50 series, Conform 4075 app tape.
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Great job Dave. Very impressive.
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Crikey, that would take me a day
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Correct me if I’m wrong but what are ROWENS, should it not be spelt RHONES, nice job by the way and very quick :thumbsup:
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It’s def rhones or rones. Checked on Scots dictionary!
😆
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Fast or not, spelling aside…left the keys with the lad in the office as I had to go out. Customer turned up and said he wanted to show the guy who’d dropped him off an invoice sheet that’d been designed for him…picked up his key (on desk), legged it down the stairs, reversed into the road and wheel spun off at high speed…’forgetting’ to pay.
Been a few years since we had a spate of these…police informed but too busy on a Friday lunchtime to attend… Monday, it’ll be Monday before they send someone round.
At least I didn’t spend a lot of time on it….no chance of getting paid…turns out they are ‘travellers’ that live in houses without the familiar accent…
Win some… Lose some…
Dave
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That is shocking ! Hope the police get them and can do something to help you
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OUCH! If they weren’t travellers I would be round there stripping it off. Of course I would have some mates with me as well!! :smiles:
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quote Iain George:OUCH! If they weren’t travellers I would be round there stripping it off. Of course I would have some mates with me as well!! :smiles:You mean strip off certain letters to spell something out don’t you?
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The necky bastids. As you say at least you didnt spend long on it.
Now then, don’t we all have a leaky roof we need fixing?
Get yourself some vinyl removal liquid just in case you see it out and about 😉
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David, thanks for posting.
I take it you don’t use the impact vehicle library then?
How do you size up the vehicle so you know it’s correct?
Would you use the same technique for I.e a ford transit custom?
In regards to using the string, i use that technique a lot but I’m always looking to speed up things and the one bit that slows me down is lining up graphics, I hate it especially on a transit custom or Citroen dispatch
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quote Daniel Evans:David, thanks for posting.
I take it you don’t use the impact vehicle library then?
How do you size up the vehicle so you know it’s correct?
Would you use the same technique for I.e a ford transit custom?
In regards to using the string, i use that technique a lot but I’m always looking to speed up things and the one bit that slows me down is lining up graphics, I hate it especially on a transit custom or Citroen dispatch
I’ve got a library from Spandex that’s a couple of years old. It’s ideal for general use but doesn’t account for the placement of badges, panel creases and the sizes can be seriously out when trying to make things fit exactly.
Prefer a photo and superimpose the design on…customers also seem to appreciate it on THEIR van. Then take it outside and throw a tape measure over either the panels or what will be the actual size of the graphic.
Oddly shaped and curved van still need a basic vertical and a visual horizontal…often best to magnet the vinyl on and stand back adjust until it looks right rather than measure right. -
Good tip Ewan, thanks for sharing with the boards mate.
Good job you have pictures of the van, address, numbers and registration plate Dave. should be easy enough to catch the culprits. Alternatively phone one of their numbers and order a roofing job.. etc etc etc 😆
Just a personal observation and constructive crit: but the graphics are all too big in each area for my liking…
could easily lose 15-20% on everything to give a bit of breathing space. Your numbers are different sizes too, which doesn’t keep things uniformed.Thanks for taking the time to do the pictures and time walk through Dave. Certainly keeps the topic active and informative for everyone reading.
I use Impacts vehicle Outline Library for 90% of our work. the rest is measured and scale sized from photo’s.
I only take sizes for wraps or awkward shaped type machines like huge JCB’s… Trucks etc where the 3 dimensional shapes are thrown out by 2d visuals.
A measure tape etc for 99% of my vinyl installations too. even those i eye into place are checked by tape before application. its the old saying "measure twice, install once". :smiles:
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Good critique from Rob, looks neater and saves you vinyl as well
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I thought they were "mock ups" on the van, not actual finished work.
I’m sure Mr Rogers knows what he’s doing
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quote Steff Davison:I thought they were “mock ups” on the van, not actual finished work.
I’m sure Mr Rogers knows what he’s doingNo, it is completed work.
Yes I am sure Dave knows exactly what he is doing. but my points are justified and i have clearly stated it is in a constructive manner and have also given an illustration to help show this.
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I appreciate your constructive advise, it just doesnt make sense though…why would he do two instals on the same van.?
Just an observation.
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quote Steff Davison:I appreciate your constructive advise, it just doesnt make sense though…why would he do two instals on the same van.?Just an observation.
Steff,
Top one is the one Dave actually did and the one underneath is Rob’s photoshoped alternative version :bigsmile:
Nice job Rob,
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quote Martin Cole:quote Steff Davison:I appreciate your constructive advise, it just doesnt make sense though…why would he do two instals on the same van.?
Just an observation.
Steff,
Top one is the one Dave actually did and the one underneath is Rob’s photoshoped alternative version :bigsmile:
Nice job Rob,
😆 Yeah Ive changed my mind, good one Rob !
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Yeh, I agree Dave does know what he’s doing! It wouldn’t save vinyl Jon (and it’s the cheapest part of a livery…bad for business if you save £5 of vinyl but waste hours fannying about lining stuff up) and although I admit it appears a little over filled, it’s what sells to that type of customer. Rob’s may well be a lighter, more open design…i personally think it is a little too open and undersized on the list… probably by the same amount that mine is too oversized… Rob’s entitled to his opinion.
As an aside, why is it that nobody bothers to post in the gallery these days ? I put the good, the bad & the ugly in there on an almost monthly basis as samples of what "average Dave" does. I’m not ashamed of the run of the mill money makers, the downright weird or the absolute stunning jobs…c’mon folks, post it up…you too Rob!
Dave
PS. Police involved today to encourage payment…not received so criminal proceedings will likely commence including possible seizure of the van as presentable evidence…oh, joy.
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Thanks for the update Dave…
Yes you are correct, it would be great to see more work posted up by our members, myself included, thank you for the encouragement. -
I hope you do get your money Dave, it’s not very nice when this sort of thing happens.
We’ve had it happen when the travellers returned with a spare key and just drove it off.Saying that we’ve been ripped off by more folk that are not travellers tbh.
We now park our van in the way so it can’t happen again.
Glad to see the police are intrested all too oftern they just give you a crime number over the phone.
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I agree Dave, we have customer who likes to have in input into the design, and TBH it’s hideous, even their drivers don’t like it. I don’t like it. But it pay’s the bills and the customer is happy.
As to the gallery, I will dig out some images and upload some when I get 5mins. Thank’s for sharing your technique too :thumbsup:
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David, I applaud you making regular postings of your work, and I agree with you that it would be nice to see a few more examples from the other regular posters, it’s not something I’ve ever had the confidence to do.
Some years ago I posted an idea on how to do a job and the replies centred not on whether the idea was good but more on the material that I had used in the post – that confirmed to me that I perhaps I’d better not show any of my work.
Please continue to post your work, but chances are, that as an untrained graphic designer, I’m unlikely to comment.
Steve
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Love the original tip on lining graphics up, will definitely have to give that a go!
Dave, that speed is incredible!! The benchmark has been set… I’ll let you know when I can match it!!
I like Rob’s idea as it does look cleaner, but I guess it depends on the client. Some people like there vehicles/signs/artwork to be "BRANDED"… by which I mean their logo plastered all over it as big as it can be. Some prefer a more delicate approach and for everything to be more "professional" (I say that mildly as bigger can most certainly still be professional!)
Great work though, and I love the gold vinyl. Big fan of a touch of gold!
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Further to this post, I have been looking at a few different van graphics designs and quite a few displayed telephone numbers of different sizes, depending on where on the van they were placed(they all looked like good professional work from reputable companies).
I think this post was originally concerned with methods of "aligning" graphics onto vans rather than the OP’s design skills, he didnt ask for a critique of his work.
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quote Steff Davison:Further to this post, I have been looking at a few different van graphics designs and quite a few displayed telephone numbers of different sizes, depending on where on the van they were placed(they all looked like good professional work from reputable companies).
I think this post was originally concerned with methods of “aligning” graphics onto vans rather than the OP’s design skills, he didnt ask for a critique of his work.
Dave was not the original poster Steff it was Ewan.
This thread is a typical example of how threads evolve. which is why message board systems like this one have the built in facilities to split topics into two or more threads if needed… if topics go left and right, so to speak. if this does go any further that way that’s exactly what we would do as way of moderating the site. It is common and most would not even be aware we do this regularly.
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This is what I find great about this site. You can learn loads of simple tips and learn how everyone does things differently but everyone’s ideas and thoughts bring something to the table.
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The string method does work & is quick & easy but something to take note of is that because string is flexible it is easy for it to bend a little especially if running on the side of a van with recesses, not always easy to see that it has deflected either. Just something to be aware of when using this method.
Don’t worry people I can guarantee that no one is slower than me when it comes to any kind of job 😆 😆 Not just application but weeding & taping as well, you can still make money but obviously not as much 😆
I guess I am another one who is guilty of not posting in the Gallery, at one time because it was all just run of the mill sort of stuff that I personally felt wasn’t worth clogging up the forum for but no days more to do with the fact that I am hardly doing any sign work at all.
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Hi Dave,
Sounds to me like they need a rating on mybuilder.com, at least for starters 😉
Thanks for the post, I definitely need to up my speed when doing van’s, this would usually take me 2 and a bit hours to apply.
Also Ewan, great tip with the string. Some of these newer vans are tough to line up, especially close up.
quote DavidRogers:Fast or not, spelling aside…left the keys with the lad in the office as I had to go out. Customer turned up and said he wanted to show the guy who’d dropped him off an invoice sheet that’d been designed for him…picked up his key (on desk), legged it down the stairs, reversed into the road and wheel spun off at high speed…’forgetting’ to pay.Been a few years since we had a spate of these…police informed but too busy on a Friday lunchtime to attend… Monday, it’ll be Monday before they send someone round.
At least I didn’t spend a lot of time on it….no chance of getting paid…turns out they are ‘travellers’ that live in houses without the familiar accent…
Win some… Lose some…
Dave
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Many years ago, much against my better judgement I did some chevrons on the back of a Vito for some travellers (not what I know call them) after a bit of a haggle they paid and left, three hours later they came back and said that they had sold the van and no longer wanted the chevrons so demanded their money back, I of course said no way so they punched me in the face a few times then pushed me to the floor then four of them proceded to kick the living daylights out of me and stole my wallet with the money that they paid for the chevrons. whilst I was on the floor having the sh** kicked out of me I looked up and saw a police cctv camera watching. After they had gone I phoned the police to report the crime and that it was all on cctv.
Did the police do anything? I’ll leave you to guess.Moral of the story……………don’t work for pikeys
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For David Hammond…
Simple tradesman van… definitely not fancy or complex but I did say I’d upload something!
Had my ‘assistant’ hold the camera on 6x time lapse. Pre-spaced vinyl in boxes / registrations. Nice square edges to make lining up easy.
Magnets to hold in position, tape to mark positions if required.
Mix of techniques depending on the size…some tag and half strips, others full strips and tension.Dave
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:thumbsup: Thank’s Dave
Interesting to see how your technique differs from ours, I didn’t see one tape measure!
We must try harder here! 😆 😆
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Dave,
Great job, it shows how fast you can go if you put your mind to it.
I would still be faffing about with a tape measure. -
Tradesman at work.
I think this highlights why some experienced tradesmen can price at the price points they do, that clarity software malarkey would have costed out the fitting for that job at £100’s if you estimated fitting time at 3-5 hours. Seems to me as though clarity wants your customer to pay for your inefficiency ( No insult intended!, just something to consider)
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Clarity wouldn’t have costed the fitting out at £100’s… it would cost it out at what you estimated the install to take. The same way everyone else does. Clarity is not some magical software that know’s everything.
It is great for working out prices on print (Small & large format), but it does require the user to manually enter EVERY materials, size & cost into the the price lists module, and set your desired margin.
Here’s an example:
We use the wizard to calculate the cost on printing and laminating an 8×4 board, mounting it to composite. Clarity is good at that bit, as we’ve told it the cost of everything, from Ink, Media, and the hourly running costs. That spit’s out a price at our chosen margin.
Clarity doesn’t know whether we’re fitting it, if we are where in the country, how long it will take, and that is where we do a bit on manual amendments, which is simply doing what we all do, it’s going to take X hours @ £XX to fit, and add that to wizard.
Besides the pricing aspect of clarity, there are other benefits:
All our prices are in one central location, and anyone can price up a job, quickly, and consistently. (yes we only have 2 staff, but my dad’s no spring chicken!)
All our quotes are in one place, not scattered on various e-mail accounts, computers, desks, and pads.
Our quotes are presented professionally, with relative ease.
All the previous orders are easily accessible, perfect for the small format print we do, when a customer call’s wanting a reprint on something from 2-3years ago.
We’ve set clarity up to automatically make the customer & job folders on our server, keeping all the artwork in one place, accessible from any printer or computer, and again great for when reprints come in.
For the type of work we produce, and some of the clients we work with, it’s worth while for us.
Granted if we were selling a range of 10 products, or just doing van graphics, then it’s probably really not necessary. We don’t use it price up van work, and just estimate it in our heads.We’ve put job’s through it, and it’s either sounded to expensive, or too cheap and adjust accordingly, but have a reasonably accurate idea of what it’s costing us.
Back to the original post:
The fact Dave can install van graphics in half the time of others, is Dave’s benefit, and I would be charging a similar price to other companies, but doing twice as much work for the same time.
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David
I just think that Clarity adds in too much cost from what you have said in previous posts. I also think it can make you too reliant on a computer program to run your business. I run my business a different way, I dont want a computer program telling me what I should sell something for, I believe it breeds inefficiency. I know what the market I sell in can stand price wise, its my job to reduce costs /increase production so I can improve the margin to continue either selling in that market, or knowing when its time to move on.
I just get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the software is pricing up your work but it pays no attention to your turnover only your "break even " point .
I think all the job/order processing stuff is fantastic, but only because that bit makes your business more efficient in many different ways.
I wish you continued success.
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Take a look at the demo’s at S&D, and you’ll see what I mean.
Look at it another way, it doesn’t tell us what to sell it at, but what it costs to produce. It does take a bit of time/effort to get it set up accurately.
We’re sure as hell not 100% reliant on the clarity for pricing, we do still engage our brains and manually work stuff out.
Out of interest, send me PM with a typical job to price up, I’m interested to see how it compares :thumbsup:
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David,
If I am able to send PM’s in the future I will send you an example with pleasure
You have said previously " you put the material cost in… then add the profit margin you want…. and it works it all out for you" or words to that effect.
You have also mentioned about machinery depreciation costs and costing in a proportion to each job, its adding cost
The way I look at depreciation is this; Whatever I have paid for the machine once I have it installed its worth half of what it was worth the day before it was delivered, so it better get working. The machine is a consumable, its only job is to generate positive cash flow by making stuff. There are many other factors that go into the equation but thats my basic principle. The customer doesnt pay for the depreciation, the customer pays for the machine, my job is to get the customer to buy what the machine produces, the more he buys the quicker he pays for the machine. I dont care what the value of it is once its made me back my money and the profit I want, any residual value is a bonus.
My business is different to yours David, my customers buy what I produce rather than me producing to their specification. Maybe we should do the exercise the other way round and see where I am pricing with your business model.
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I sent you a PM earlier too! Ask Rob he’ll sort your permissions out :thumbsup:
I worked out out overheads (excl depreciation) and ran them past our accountant for his opinion, it was he who advised incorporating something towards depreciation. I agree that machines are work horses, there to make money, but at some point in the future they need to replaced. It is a case of planning for such a day.
Shall we carry this discussion on the thread about Clarity? We’re well off the original subject :blushing:
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quote David Hammond::thumbsup: Thank’s Dave
Interesting to see how your technique differs from ours, I didn’t see one tape measure!
We must try harder here! 😆 😆
What is your technique?
For the lack of a tape measure, very rare to use one…there are a few spots of masking tape for the phone numbers etc, and salvaging app tape to give a top line for the symbols, but mainly eyeballed / using horizons or vehicle panel line.
For me, vans cost what a van costs in the local market, there is no special rates for me working faster (or charging more if it takes longer). I CAN push price points to get the a job I want (easy and good return), or walk away if I can’t be bothered with the hassle/reward ratio. I’m driven as I’m not just generating revenue for myself and get endlessly frustrated by staff that either take their time or screw up adopting the attitude "I still get paid if i take half an hour or 3 hours".
Price structure isn’t really a black art…three concerns only: How much did it cost you? How much do you want? Will the customer pay that?…adjust accordingly.
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We usually hang the graphics with tape in the top corners, measure and adjust until its straight, then hinge it, and apply.
We have started trimming out graphics to the weed boarder so they’re nice and square and we can measure to the backing paper so speed it up.
When doing boards, we’ve cut the border to the edge of the board, so we can easily align the backing to a corner to edge of the board, easy alignimg multiple colours.
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Magnets into desired place.
Measure and re-measure to make sure its 100%.
Masking tape in fixed place and remove magnets.
Apply the graphic and remove application tape.Applying using magnets only is easy enough, but magnets do slide easy.
Magnets do not always work depending on the body panel. I.e. plastic, fibreglass, aluminium etc
Using just application tape to get in place is easy enough too but little movements become a pain as the tape doesn’t like to twist.Applying graphics without a measuring tape is easy if the panel is filled and there’s no real space between the hard line of the body and the graphic. but when there is multiple graphics on each side of the vehicle and all at different levels, some floating in the centre of large panels etc it is an error waiting to happen. Not forgetting that most vehicle hard lines do not run level these days. Using a measure tape takes seconds to check and make just right, or 20 minutes every little fix thats wrong and needs re-run.
Remember, doing a single van is fine, but if your customer has two of the same van or more and they park alongside each other and graphics are not at same levels, even if straight, then you have a complete refit.
It is important to try and keep a log of vehicle sizes where the graphics are placed. if not measurements then at least a photo of each side of the vehicle for future reference.
If there is multiples of vehicles to be done then it is imperative that you keep a log of the measurements and photos of the vehicle.
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