Thinking of buying an HP designerjet L25500 printer

[John Lloyd]

Anyone using one of these?

Any problems?

[Martin Pearson]

John if you have a look at Ben’s post about buying a new printer you will see that there have been comments made about the lack of info on these printers. If any of the board members are using one they haven’t passed on any comments about it.

[George Zerbino]

John & Martin,

I’ve got one of these and wrote some info about it yesterday, funnily enough.

The topic is https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … sc&start=0

Cheers,
George

[Jon Marshall]

I think i’d wait for the next generation of latex printers or for the other manufacturers to release their models.

[John Lloyd]

quote Jon Marshall:

I think i’d wait for the next generation of latex printers or for the other manufacturers to release their models.

The latex seem to be the way forward. You can sell a "green" policy as they are water based inks and you are ahead of the game.

We visited someone yesterday who has been using one for 6 months and is about to buy a 2nd one and get rid of his solvent printers.

[John Lloyd]

quote George Zerbino:

John & Martin,

I’ve got one of these and wrote some info about it yesterday, funnily enough.

The topic is https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … sc&start=0

Cheers,
George

George,

Thanks for the link. You’ve confirmed what we already knew so hopefully no major scares when it turns up.

[Peter Normington]

Just had a second look at the latex, William Smith had an open day today. (thanks for the welcome guys)
I think i am seeing certain advantages over solvents.
forget the "eco" friendly for a moment, but just to be able to laminate straight off the printer is a big plus, and then to use the material as a wrap shortly after is another.
The prints appear to be very sturdy without lamination also, and again because the ink does not affect the adhesive like solvents, can be applied straight away without them being like "chewing gum"

I am now seriously considering latex as my next purchase, and in direct competition with Roland and mimaki.
still considering the pros and cons, but the hp latex is definitely in the running.

Peter

[David Rowland]

Well I have yet to fully study the latex printers but I can say something about a UV printer, well I yet to mention it on here but we are the first installation of the Agfa Anapurna M2050 which has the new Konica Minolta 1024 headset and as few of you know I have been studying UV print now for several years trying to find the right one for our application. I have been blown away with the print quality of this machine and also the speed it can print at, it is transforming the way we handle jobs now and the print quality is perfect with colours that are ISO rated.

So, what I am trying to say is do not get too lost in the world of Latex, the UV ink we are running is actually stretchy also which makes it suitable for vehicles but I not confident enough for a wrap just yet. Laminating is a problem, I know Robert has mentioned this before when he was running a UV printer but you just got to work out when you need laminates or not.

I have seen latex a few years ago at some shows, it is good with staggering quality. One thing I noticed is how clean UV and Latex is, solvent is messy printer and I will be glad to give it up but not everything can be done on a UV as the ink is not as transparent, it sits on the surface of a sheet instead of obsorbing.

Prices of UV will keep dropping, I am sure of it.

[Peter Normington]

Dave
thanks for the comments, but not really relevant to the subject
UV is entirely different, may well suit your needs. but as you and rob agree, not suitable for wraps. are you still using your very old mimaki?

Peter

[David Rowland]

quote John Lloyd:

We currently have an HP designer jet 5000PS and feel the latex printer is worth the investment.

What are peoples experience of this machine? Has it opened up new markets. I am particularly interested in it’s “green” selling point and print longevity.

Please let me know what you think of this machine.

Ok I reply to this instead…

A Latex is a worthy investment but I would also say a UV printer is..

With regards Green selling points, I think it is exactly the same as UV in my opion, I cannot be certain of this, but I not seen latex printer going directly onto a board, I might be wrong? The waste like backing paper and additional lamination savings does make a UV very friendly to the environment, I have even found bio-degradable banner materials and there is some boards I need to look into.

BUT, the one to really watch is the water-based printers, if they do get them right then from a green point of view you might find these taking over board and roll based systems.

So thats my thougths, there is a lot of new inks out there since the dawn of latex and its all just about how you cure it.

Oh didn’t mention the Spandex Ion’s ink.. I think thats a great machine…

maybe I should write a book!!

Edit: With regards wraps, I dont think we are ready to try it for wraps but AGFA doesn’t see a problem, we can fold vinyl in half as the ink is elastic based and will not crack which is the common problem with UV ink. To wrap it, well it would have to be tested out on our of our own vehicles for several months before I would be confident to sell it.

[Peter Normington]

dave
latex IS water based…
unlike your traditional interpretation of it!
I know you like your rubber!

Peter

[David Rowland]

so they are but my memory is bad. Although HP are doing well with it, they are not the only ones who got that technology.

[Peter Normington]

quote Dave Rowland:

so they are but my memory is bad. Although HP are doing well with it, they are not the only ones who got that technology.

Dave, who else is doing it? not seen it on any other sub 20k machines, if there is competition from another reputable manufacturer, I would love to know about it.
that is one of the reasons i am holding back, in theory and practice it looks good, but HP are new to vinyl and other outdoor stuff, even though backed by 3M, so it would be a bit of a leap of faith to go down their road, so I am still looking for subjective opinions from people who own a latex printer, rather than someone who has not yet studied them (no disrespect mate)

Peter

[David Rowland]

Don’t forget that HP do have significant print knowledge, I have spoken to them before and had some demos. At time of speak (last jan) they were new to the UK for outdoor and didn’t have much going on technical support. They did buy Nur is Isreal who had some fantastic machines which HP Re-baged.

Sub 20K, no idea. One machine was demonstrated to me in Drupa 2008(?) and I think it was water based, might be acid ink based, not 100% certain but it was a prototype at the show and the prints were amazing as it stuck to many things, problem we had is the guy only spoke german! but the ink was being cured with a hot-air gun.

The other is Elements printer http://www.elementsps.net/ by IGS

Water based printing is no stranger to silk screen, it’s being around for years and it is a good stuff.

[Martin Pearson]

Dave, looking at that the elements printers are pigment based not latex based machines, yes OK they are both water based but I think Peter was asking if anyone else was using the latex system, if he wasn’t then I am :lol1:

[David Rowland]

pigment is the ink… its mixed with solvent or water and then the heater evaporates the solvent or water and you have print.

[Peter Normington]

Dave
the post was for info on the HP latex,and especially from people who have used them, they are the ones that have valid opinions, unfortunately George is the only one that appears to have bought one and replied with any useful info.
here say and assumptions are not going to help me decide on which printer to buy 😀

Peter

[Peter Normington]

so anyone with valid comments please?

[John Thomson]

Peter,

I have not used one or have any contacts with one…….my concern would be that the first people who run brand new tech tend to be the ones who find problems caused by everyday use, the last line in R&D…….as an example who wants to run the latest version of Microsoft Windows? only to find the bugs………I still run tried and tested Windows XP….as do many other successful businesses

just my opinion.

All the best with you decision

John

[Peter Normington]

John.
latex is not new. it has been around now for about 3 years, or more, HP and 3M are not new comers..
I have not got much feed back from uksb, but maybe because most of uksb members only use cheap chinese plotters?
from what I have seen, and I have been to several demos, latex has advantages,
I have spoken to people who use them, and have only had positive comments, so thanks for your opinion, but it is a bit like Dave’s, not founded on any constructive facts,

Peter

[John Thomson]

In that case why hesitate, just buy it?

I offered my opinion as there was a distinct lack of people here who had bought one….that is no reason to make comments on the machinery i choose to use…..

Sorry if my comments were not constructive.

john

[Peter Normington]

John
all comments are constructive, and yours are as valid as any,
I was tongue in cheek about Chinese,
I may well just go and buy it, as it is very competitively priced, and I have compared the hp with roland and mimaki, I am going to make up my own mind in the end, but based on facts available, and what my needs are, its a bit like buying a car, so many bloody variations and marketing bullsh1t!

Peter

[John Thomson]

My own personal experience with the sellers of latex machines tells me they are having problems convincing signmakers to buy them…………..

as you know my printer is a jv3 as is yours……..my cutters are Chinese made…..I have used Mimaki cutters in the past…….the Chinese ones are a match in every respect except noise suppression.

Hope you make the right decision.

john

[George Zerbino]

I’m more than happy with mine, it took me almost a year to make my mind up and I do not buy equipment without being 110% sure about it…it is my money after all!

If you want the negative points I’ve found so far:

start-up time, it takes a few minutes (about 15, depending on ambient temperature) from when you turn the printer on to when it starts to print, so forget running a quick little job on it – having said that if you’re using a solvent printer you can print immediately but you cannot do anything with the printout immediately, so this swings in roundabouts

…and that’s about it, apart from not being able to put scraps of material into the printer.

As I find out more I will eventually post such findings.

Cheers,
George Zerbino

[John Lloyd]

Thanks George,

The deposit has gone in and the machine is booked in for installing 2nd week of January.

I too will let you know how it goes.

[George Zerbino]

John,

You won’t be disappointed – it just takes a little bit of time to get used to it, but this applies to any new equipment.
Out of curiosity, where did you order it from?

Cheers,
George

[John Lloyd]

The machine has arrived today and staff now going through the training.

If anyone with this machine could advise what materials they are using and suppliers I would be most interested please pm me.

[Craig Brown]

We have been running a HP25500 for the best part of a year now (Feb 2010), it replaced our 6 year old JV3 that had been a great work horse for us.

The printer itself is very easy to use and although this might sound a daft thing to point out the fact that the material is front loading means the machine has quite a small footprint. (helpful if space is at a premium)

Print quality is very good (comparison against a JV33 and Epson6000) but the old rules about crap in crap out still stand.

Media has not been an issue and profiles are easy to get – our machine came via Wm Smith and they have been very helpful in making sure the transition between solvent and latex has been as smooth as possible.

The really big plus has been that the material that is printed keeps the same consistency as before it was printed (no solvent softening of the media) and as the manufacture claims you can print laminate and fit without waiting for out-gassing, negating storage issues and materials getting damaged whilst curing.

I still rate the Mimaki JV33’s very highly and was worried that affordable Latex machines weren’t quite there yet but HP have put those fears to rest for me…but it’s your money so all I can do is offer an opinion.

[George Zerbino]

I’ve had mine for 3 months now, and I’m using all the same materials I used to run through my Grenadier.

Only a couple of materials didn’t work on the HP, one being a canvas which I bought a very long time ago from the original b&p (it prints beautifully but the edges curl up as it’s printing until the head jams), and the other is an unbranded banner material which does not like the heaters at all (not even if lowered to the lowest possible settings).

Like Craig, mine comes from WmSmith and the fact that they run two of these printers means that if you have any issues, they are very helpful in replicating the same.