Stuck between two thoughts need opinions ? Employing or selling

[Denise Goodfellow]

We were in a similar situation a few years back.
We tried to sell, but as you know, for a few hundred pounds you’ll get a cutter software and hey you are a signmaker, why splash out £50k

We eventually teamed up with another person. It has it’s ups and downs, but there’s another body to lend a hand, they also brought other things to the table which increased the turn over

So you could form a partnership with someone else who’s a one man band or ATM operates from a smaller place with less equipment. As part of the deal you receive say ££500 a month

[Mohammad Esa]

Your in a very difficult situation and finding someone reliable to employ is one of the hardest things. As you don’t know how the individual will turn out to be. But I think getting an extra pair of hands is much better than selling everything, its not easy selling all those equipment’s.

I would have loved to help you out if you was close, but am based in Wolverhampton 🙁

[Chris Wilson]

Difficult situation indeed…

I agree with Denise though. It is easy to buy cheap and build from there. Personally I wouldn’t buy another sign company.

I would go down the partner route. Sell a share in the company. If someone is investing cash then hopefully they are no idiot and will work hard to get that cash back. I don’t think it necessarily has to be someone from a signage background either. We have all learnt and still learning. There’s plenty of courses for vinyl skills out there, and part of there buy in would be cash to go on those. The hand holding as you say can be a very short process.

You might also find that a person with a marketing background or even running another business has fresh new ideas and make you both a ton of cash.

You could expand on this further and with the cash investment take on a apprentice at the same time. Build the company as a "team" with firm ground rules. Again it would take more pressure off yourself and your new business partner in the short to long term. I suppose you have to look at what’s best for you but also what is best for them, if you can’t be there all the time they need a bit of back up to for busy days and for times when things go wrong.

From your selling post you seem to have a fairly well built up business with a lot of equipment and a good stock of everything, so it seems like you have a good foundation.

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Chris Wilson:

Difficult situation indeed…

I agree with Denise though. It is easy to buy cheap and build from there. Personally I wouldn’t buy another sign company.

I would go down the partner route. Sell a share in the company. If someone is investing cash then hopefully they are no idiot and will work hard to get that cash back. I don’t think it necessarily has to be someone from a signage background either. We have all learnt and still learning. There’s plenty of courses for vinyl skills out there, and part of there buy in would be cash to go on those. The hand holding as you say can be a very short process.

You might also find that a person with a marketing background or even running another business has fresh new ideas and make you both a ton of cash.

You could expand on this further and with the cash investment take on a apprentice at the same time. Build the company as a “team” with firm ground rules. Again it would take more pressure off yourself and your new business partner in the short to long term. I suppose you have to look at what’s best for you but also what is best for them, if you can’t be there all the time they need a bit of back up to for busy days and for times when things go wrong.

From your selling post you seem to have a fairly well built up business with a lot of equipment and a good stock of everything, so it seems like you have a good foundation.

That’s exactly it. The weakness is in me not being able to fulfil the business needs. In need to structure how I will attract a partner if I go down this route.

[Chris Wilson]

Personally for me a business partner is someone who is always going to cover the business and keep it in safe hands. If I call In sick, I need to know he/she is not going to let the client down as best they can.

I think personally your offering someone a chance to buy into a well established business, taking a huge amount of risk out of there investment, with the flexibility of that investment growing. If I was to be that partner though i would need some sort of re-assurance that am not going to be left on my own, personally that’s why I would go down the apprentice route. I don’t know what English law is like but I look up here the other day and for someone leaving school you £3 something an hour (I was on £600 a month when I started in this trade). The safety net to this is if 3 months down the line your find there just standing around doing nothing you can cut them loose (harsh I know) but you then also have another business partner to bounce ideas off, pick yourselfs back up and try move forward again.

[Steff Davison]

quote Chris Wilson:

I think personally your offering someone a chance to buy into a well established business, taking a huge amount of risk out of there investment, with the flexibility of that investment growing. If I was to be that partner though i would need some sort of re-assurance that am not going to be left on my own, personally that’s why I would go down the apprentice route. I don’t know what English law is like but I look up here the other day and for someone leaving school you £3 something an hour (I was on £600 a month when I started in this trade). The safety net to this is if 3 months down the line your find there just standing around doing nothing you can cut them loose (harsh I know) but you then also have another business partner to bounce ideas off, pick yourselfs back up and try move forward again.

I dont agree with most of the above. They are not investing in an established business, by Michael’s own admission it isnt taking any money. Michael may have an emotional attachment to the equipment he has built up over a period of time, but unless that machinery produces income whats it worth?. He has to prove the business along with the equipment makes money, potential isnt worth very much at all. If we could sell potential we would all be retired.

I dont think taking on staff will work either, staff want to be managed, michael wants to be a silent partner. To hire someone who has the skills to build a business with the machinery you have would cost a fair amount of money, they have to run the business as if it were their own, thats a tough ask. If you could find someone how much would they cost?,£20-25-30K a year plus profit share/bonus?. If it doesnt work out, you are still in the same boat, less the £1000’s you have spent on running it.

IMO if you are ready to walk away from the business and not come back, then sell the machinery at what the market will pay. Clean break then onwards and upwards.

PS I am not interested in buying your equipment, so have no vested interest in my post and point of view.

[Kevin Mahoney]

Hi Mike, tried texting you this morning, have you changed your number?
Kev sign here

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Steff Davison:

quote Chris Wilson:

I think personally your offering someone a chance to buy into a well established business, taking a huge amount of risk out of there investment, with the flexibility of that investment growing. If I was to be that partner though i would need some sort of re-assurance that am not going to be left on my own, personally that’s why I would go down the apprentice route. I don’t know what English law is like but I look up here the other day and for someone leaving school you £3 something an hour (I was on £600 a month when I started in this trade). The safety net to this is if 3 months down the line your find there just standing around doing nothing you can cut them loose (harsh I know) but you then also have another business partner to bounce ideas off, pick yourselfs back up and try move forward again.

I dont agree with most of the above. They are not investing in an established business, by Michael’s own admission it isnt taking any money. Michael may have an emotional attachment to the equipment he has built up over a period of time, but unless that machinery produces income whats it worth?. He has to prove the business along with the equipment makes money, potential isnt worth very much at all. If we could sell potential we would all be retired.

I dont think taking on staff will work either, staff want to be managed, michael wants to be a silent partner. To hire someone who has the skills to build a business with the machinery you have would cost a fair amount of money, they have to run the business as if it were their own, thats a tough ask. If you could find someone how much would they cost?,£20-25-30K a year plus profit share/bonus?. If it doesnt work out, you are still in the same boat, less the £1000’s you have spent on running it.

IMO if you are ready to walk away from the business and not come back, then sell the machinery at what the market will pay. Clean break then onwards and upwards.

PS I am not interested in buying your equipment, so have no vested interest in my post and point of view.

I have the skill but not to run my own business I need to work either for someone else on a part time business maybe be better due to circumstances and like you say sell my equipment or sell most and keep printer for instances and run the odd job. The problem is the only machine that needs constant running is the printer so I would still be better off to sell the lot at market price. Which with the amount of stock I have is a lot. I was building myself up but reality is this candle is burnt both ends.

Reality is life circumstance changed and I don’t want to baby sit any new staff or take on additional responsibilities when my son is a major one already.

Thanks for your reply x

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote Kevin Mahoney:

Hi Mike, tried texting you this morning, have you changed your number?
Kev sign here

Sorry kevin just noticed your comment. Yes mate changed it its 07772118007

[David Hammond]

There’s a company up here who simply make composite trays. Flat cut letters (no locators or template) & clear acrylic blanks with polished edges.

That is all they do, and sell to the trade only.

Would something like that be an option? A few days to turn orders around, only 1 machine to keep running, and should free your time up too?

Sell the other machines?

[Michael Kalisperas]

quote David Hammond:

There’s a company up here who simply make composite trays. Flat cut letters (no locators or template) & clear acrylic blanks with polished edges.

That is all they do, and sell to the trade only.

Would something like that be an option? A few days to turn orders around, only 1 machine to keep running, and should free your time up too?

Sell the other machines?

I don’t get much time full stop to be honest. Hardest thing is not being able to predict your days ahead. It’s either carers are off , sick, broken foot, split up with boyfriend etc then we have all appointments and exhausted daily with lack of sleep it’s like normal life in our carers lives affect us because we rely on them as we have other children too. So I get pulled out a lot.

Have a sale on some of the equipment BUSTED my balls for printer enbroidery machine , laminator and All stock and inks which is a shed loads, plastic card printer and a3 printer and tools best price he says he can do is 20k which easily 15k short even if I price my printer at the lowest price of 10k it’s pretty new xr640 but he sounds serious and he’s local

[Steff Davison]

Have you not considered that well known online auction site?

Split it into smaller lots (stock) if you think its worth £15 k more, and you are being honest with yourself, then I would look for an alternative sales method.

I know of a well known member here who sold off his unwanted kit on ebay to make room for some really big stuff. He got decent money from what I can remember.

Kind Regards
Steff