Stickers In Small Quantities – Best Machine To Use?

[Rodney Gold]

You can go for a thermal printer like a roland pc60/600 etc , that uses resin to print onto clear , however these machines are flaky and consumable costs are HORRENDOUS. A small inkjet print and cut will cost a ton initially but is hugely more flexible for all sorts of other stuff – The Roland SP300 is good , or you can get an aftermarket conversion of one of these called a Cadet.
I have thermal printers and really wish I could dump them , but there are some customers who only accept their output.
If you do go thermal , go for a PC600 2nd hand , we just got one in good condition for a littte over 1200 quid.
I must reitterate – Thermal printing these days is NOT cost effective , I can charge 1/3rd of the price and make more profit and offer good quality product with an inkjet.

[Martin Forsyth]

Hi Rodney

thanks for the advice.

I’ve had a look on the web, and they would seem ideal for me, either the Versacamm or the Cadet.

They both seem to be priced the same…

I wonder if I should try to get a used one?

Martin

[David Rowland]

I dont think you will find one second hand personally.
The heads are the treasured part of the printer… if left long periods of time off they screw up, so I would buy/lease new on something like this.

[Rob Brearley]

another thing you can use and this is what we use in our print shop is reverse print it through a colour photocopier onto clear self cling material that comes with the card backing on which is thin enough to go through colour copiers or colour laser printers as you can print just one copy if you like if you like, nice little sideline as this pays a few small bills for very little time 🙂

[Ken Christensen]

Martin, if you are only making small quantities now and again it’s not worth investing in new equipment and spending time trying to get it to work. Find one of the members who already have a thermal (Edge) machine who can knock them out quickly and hopefully at a friendly price.
Whatever is said about thermal print it has it’s uses for many jobs – such as small quantities of car stickers.
Ken

[Paul Hodges]

Gerber Edge is the way to go.

I’ve had one since ’95, and i have a versacamm also, but for labels or car stickers, you can’t really beat it.

[Rob Brearley]

appologies i thought you were talking about self cling stickers, the same stuff as the tax disks as a lot of garages use these types as well, sorry ignore me 🙄

[Martin Forsyth]

HI All

thanks for taking the time to reply.

What are the differences in consumable prices of the Edge and the Versacamm?

Cheers

Martin

[Lynn Normington]

can’t really answer your question martin don’t have a versacamm but for doing small labels etc. an edge is ok we have an old type gerber edge 2 don’t know what the new one does.
I suppose a plus with the edge 2 it uses foils as opposed to inks which can clog up.

Lynn 🙄 not much help sorry

[Rodney Gold]

An inkjet will use 12-15ml per sq meter with pretty extensive coverage , we pay about gbp 38 per 220 ml cart which is about 180 quid a litre , assuming 15ml , the worst case scenario is round 3-4 quid a sq meter
In general , media for an inkjet can be a bit cheaper than sprocketed or premium vinyl needed for thermal , but take it as the same.
Our Roland’s costs , even using aftermarket carts (cmyk) can approach 40-50 quid per sq meter and if you use metallic spots as well , can get to 80 quid.
Even if the edge is only 1/2 that , its still a huge amount more.
That is not even the issue anyway , as the inkjets will exceed the resolution of any of the thermals , will be able to print detail better and have a far bigger colour gamut and hardly any dithering.
They can also print on substrates thermals cant like abs , styrene , rigid thin board , mesh , banner , canvas , polysilk and so forth.
The advantages of a thermal printer are basically that they can print a more durable graphic and its dry out the machine , they also can print spots that are hard to match with an inkjet and can print gold , silver and white. They can also print more opaquely on dark substrates. They are however generally slower than an inkjet.
We do 1000’s of labels , stickers and small stuff which thermals are suited for – or were!! Nowdays there is just about NOTHING we cant do with our inkjet that the thermal can barring the metal foils on dark (which is what we do with our thermals mostly , apart from the occasional small single colour run). If my Roland blows another head , then we will dump it and stop thermal altogether , currently we are not making money with it and just retain it for legacy customers.

[Robert Scullion]

Martin

If you intend to place the sticker on the inside of the glass does that mean its printed in reverse and on the adhesive side of the sticker ?

The oki prints onto printable vinyl, white or clear seem to be all you can get, A4 size, but you would have to trim / cut the to size manually.

The other option may be the Epson c86 with th craft robo, with the contour cut facility. Just a thought.

Bob

[Paul Hodges]

Rodney has some good points on the thermal vs inkjet argument, although one thing that always swings in favour of the edge for car stickers is that they are normally reverse printed, so they are easy to back with white foil. True, the inkjet will print better four colour images, but most labels we print are all solid colour, and to be fair, you can get a better solid spot colour on the edge than most inkjets.

A typical two colour sticker reverse printed on clear and backed white should cost you somewhere in the region of £3.15 per linear metre to print.

[Martin Forsyth]

Thanks for the info everyone.

It does seem that inkjet would be the way to go then.
(In an ideal world both – but I have neither the funds or space for that)

I’ll let you know how I get on.

Once again appreciate your input, I have only been in the printing industry for a short time compared to most, so your info is invaluable to me.

😀 😀

[Paul Hodges]

Martin,

If you go the inkjet route for stickers, then be sure to get a machine which prints white (check to opacity on that) or source white laminate (for which you need a laminator and a print/cut machine, or at least a separate cutter etc)

[Martin Forsyth]

Hi All

I have decided to go the Versacamm route, and have sorted that out today.

I do a lot of t shirts – colour with vinyls, and even white subli, so this bit of kit will help in my t shirt area.

The main reason I want it though is for stickers. So again should be fine.

The only slight issue I may have is with car window stickers (approx 3″x8″ sort of size).

I have been advised that the best way is to reverse print on clear, then either laminate with white vinyl (for which I would need a laminator) or use white screen ink on the reverse.

I can’t afford a laminator at the mo, so I guess the only option is to use the white screen ink.

Does anybody have any other options, or tried and tested methods for this?

Thanks

Martin

[Chris Wool]

you do not need a laminator to back up the white we have one but wont use it for that

chris

[matt stoke]

quote :

can’t afford a laminator at the mo, so I guess the only option is to use the white screen ink.

this may sound stupid to some, but as a complete novice, what method would you use to apply screen ink to a clear window stiker ? 😕

thanks

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote matt stoke:

this may sound stupid to some

no its not matt…you’d be amazed at the amount of folk who have heard of screenprinting but have never seen it done 😀

im away to try and find some more topics for you to read up on it 😀

nik

[matt stoke]

thanks nik, had a quick look earlier and tried a couple of search engines but no concrete tutorials or proper reading.

[Rodney Gold]

In essence all you need to do is print reverse on clear using the printers crop marks (this allows you to reload the vinyl in for cutting at a later stage) you have an option after this , either to hand apply white vinyl atop the print , obviously missing the crop marks so the machine can read them or you can flood print the printed side which is very easy.
All you need is a hinged screen on a flat table which you put your white screen ink into and just use a screen ink squeegy to applyas you lay the vinyl under the screen . Its not rocket science and is about the simplest screen printing application. However its far messier than applying the white vinyl , the screen inks can affect the print and the white vinyl is far more protective than a layer of ink.
A small cold pressure laminator is not a “luxury” with your machine and neither is it horrendously expensive , its vital. Printed graphics are not resistant to abraison or chemical attack and stickers with a clear cold pressure overlam are almost indestructible and have a zillion more uses than just a printed one , you can command much higher prices for these (we call em Tuffgaard stickers) and have total peace of mind that they will last , you can als ooffer various finishes such as matte , gloss , wheat etc in terms of overlams. The beauty of the printer is that you can print , take out the vinyl , do stuff to it and then reload for cutting after – the machine does all the work in terms of reading crop marks and aligning for the cut.

[Paul Hodges]

I’m so glad i’ve still got my Gerber Edge… 😉

[matt stoke]

wish i could afford one, but with just starting out funds are short and looking at second hand ones could still be a bit costly at the minute

[Paul Hodges]

Matt, they are not the cheapest machines to buy, some good second hand deals around but i take your point about starting costs etc..

If you’re getting a lot of car sticker work have you considered out sourcing it?

Paul

[matt stoke]

yes paul its one of the options i have considered, also ive searched the net to find second hand ones, but not very sucessfuly really at all, if anyone knows any sources then i know you are not allowed to post them, but you could always pm me or email through profile.

thanks

quote :

but you could always pm me or email through profile.

just found out you cant 😛

[Paul Hodges]

Matt,

I think you have to be a full member before you can swap PM’s, i didn’t know that either until recently

[idgni]

get a gerber edge. best machine for label printing at the right money. u have a printer that will print, profile cut and backup plotter in reserve.
i am onto my 2nd one and it pays for itself working only 2 hours a week.
no need to laminate or anything, white foil for backing.
i have rockhopper II but would never dream of using it for print cuts. if it is mainly liveries u do , u will get 3 times more for your graphics by offering gradients on lettering as the customer thinks they r expensive , however it only cost £1 /m to apply and make a huge return.

[matt stoke]

I have seen the work that the gerber can produce, very good. Where are the best second hand sources?

thanks

[Paul Hodges]

probably spandex would be a first port of call, i would imagine looking on here or similar sites might be worthwhile also.

[Freddy.Tait]

quote Rob Brearley:

another thing you can use and this is what we use in our print shop is reverse print it through a colour photocopier onto clear self cling material that comes with the card backing on which is thin enough to go through colour copiers or colour laser printers as you can print just one copy if you like if you like, nice little sideline as this pays a few small bills for very little time 🙂

hi rob where do you get the self cling material that comes with the card backing also any indication of price etc ?

thanks from
freddy at e.c.p.

[Steve-Smith]

spandex sell reconditioned edge 1’s from time to time

[Martin Forsyth]

there’s a couple of Gerbers on Ebay at the mo…..

Btw, my SP300 comes next Wednesday 😀 😀 😀

[Andrew Bennett]

Which to go for?
Edge 2nd user
or SP300 2nd user.
Does anyone have an idea of ball park figures?
I belive you can pick up an edge or edge 2 for around £3k

[Martin Forsyth]

SP300’s are very hard to get hold of 2nd user.

We we lucky and managed to get an ex-demo so it still has the warranty etc.

[matt stoke]

quote :

spandex sell reconditioned edge 1’s from time to time

where do i look on the spandex site??

thanks

[Jason Davies]

Hi, I’ve just bought a recon. Edge 1 plus kit from spandex, the Edge 2’s (recon) are impossible to get hold of and I imagine there’s not a great deal of difference in price between it and the fx.
Excellent machine.

Cheers
Jason

[matt stoke]

Jason did you just contact them direct or did you see it on their site??

[Jason Davies]

No I contacted them directly and they put me in touch with the local sales rep based in Birmingham (Andy – excellent and he knows his stuff). Knocking some work out on it now.

Jason

[matt stoke]

Nice i will get in touch with them, how much did you pay if you dont mind me asking, if you do its ok..

thanks

[Jason Davies]

All in it was a few quid short of £7000 and that included a new GSx Plotter, and the omega software, I didn’t bother with the £150 set up charge, its very easy to do especially with the help of this board.

Cheers
Jason

[Jason Davies]

Forgot to mention that when I was looking (about a fortnight ago) Roland had six ex-demo versacamms for sale at £6500, if thats any help to anyone.

Jason