SP-300V – printing quality problem

[nikelson]

Should anyone please help me?

[Martin Oxenham]

Are your Grainy problems with bitmaps or vector images or both.
Most vector images will be solid print colour and only grainy on certain colours depending on how they are made. But bitmaps will be grainy or blurry if they are not of the highest resolution. You only get out what you put in. The quality of the Versacamm and other "Sign making" type machines will never be as good as the indoor Epsom Giclee type printers as signs are designed to be viewed from a distance and the ink partly eats into the material and does not just sit on the top.

[Chris Wool]

part of the problem is you are asking a 4 colour machine to = a 6 or more colour machine.
also the rendering of the image vector or bitmap and the machines output resolution.
don’t know the settings in VW but at least 720 dpi sq output and 8 or 16 passes (not over print) and a precision stochastic screen.
unfortunately it will be slow printing.
a 300 can produce really good output but will be slow compared to more heads and colours.

the finer the output the better the image the slower it prints

chris

[nikelson]

Martin, the Grainy problems appears every time – with vectors and with bitmaps. This is an example of vector printing from my Roland- http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1929/51414754.jpg
Chris, these are my usual settings in vesraworks – http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7873/73525217.jpg Would you please tell me what should I change.
Do you exclude that the problem may be in the wrong temperatures. I was wondering if for example the temperature of the heater is too cold, could the grains appear from the fact that the ink could not dry properly.
Thank you for the help!

[Craig Newton]

hi nikelson, i think you are correct about temperature, what sort of media are you mostly printing on and what temps are you using?? craig

[Chris Wool]

yes as graig says temp should be 40 -42 , and could well be part of the problem.
3m ij20 is capable of better than that. as i say don’t know VW for your settings with out having a dig around in it.

some body else was complaining about the same faults the other day.

chris

[Gordon Forbes]

Had problems like that and I noticed a great difference after I went into the service menu and set the printer head alignment up there was a bit lax in the settings by the original engineer install
I’m sure i did it in the service mode and not your usual alignment options.

[nikelson]

Craig, I’m using 3m lj20, 3m lj10 and sometimes oracal 640. The temperatures are: heaters – 42, Head 42. I have tried a few times changing them between 42-47 degrees, but no success. Finally I began to think that maybe the two temperatures should not be the same, but this is just supposition.
Gordon, I made several times the head alignment in the service mode. There was an improvement in the quality, but the tiny dots in the solid colours are still there.
Chris, if you just say which settings are important I will make a snapshot and will show you. As you said in your first post that this is a 4 colour machine and I should not expect great results from it. The Roland technicians in my country told me just the same and also told me that if I buy a six colour machine(from them) I will have no problem. I send them an EPS file to check the settings I make to EPS, they printed it on 6 colour and the result was almost the same. Until that moment I was thinking that they may be right about SP300V, but after this demonstration I am quite sure that I have problems with the settings either in Versaworks or in the printer.
I will appreciate every advice because I really don’t know where should be the problem!

[Russell Huffer]

Never used VW only Wasatch and Wasatch does not have mm per second on head speed but the lowest setting i used on mine was 600 with the normal setting on most profiles being 800 as i say Wasatch did not break down what that 800 was and maybe350 mm per second is equivelent but my Roland would not print nice under 600

Regards

Russell.

[Mike Fear]

One thing that occurs to me is that it could be the actual colours you are printing.

CMYK printers cant match every colour, and greens and oranges seem to be a particular problem, mainly because for something like green, which is a mix of blue and yellow, the printer has to use Cyan rather than a proper blue, so the results can sometimes come out a bit strange when looked at close up ( from a distance they usually look correct )

Printing in a higher resolution should minimise this as the dots that make up the colour will be smaller, so not so noticable, but I think close up you may still get a slightly grainy look.

[nikelson]

Russell, my observations are that when I increase the head speed, for example 700 -800mm/sec – the printer starts to deform and disorder the image. On the contrary – when I decrease it – 350-400mm/s it prints OK.
Mike, you are right. I just printed 4 boxes 100% C, 100%M, 100% Y and 100% K – here is the scanned result – http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9026/55442437.jpg That quality is really very good, there are no dots and no grainy.
Then it appears that the problem should be somewhere in mixing between the colours. The temperatures should be alright. Now I am really confused and still need some advise.
Thank you all for the support!

[Russell Huffer]

Is the head in the middle position ?

Regards

Russell.

[nikelson]

Russell, what do you mean in the middle position – horizontal or vertical and how should I check it’s position

[Russell Huffer]

Talking head height, I do not have a Roland any more but from memory there is a lever on the left side of the head that sets it high low or normal just a possibility but your problem could be the head set high.

Regards

Russell.

[Chris Wool]

russell does look a bit like it but don’t think the 300 has that only the bigger ones

what make of material are you using

chris

[Craig Newton]

what inks are you using??

[nikelson]

Russell, as far as I see the head is in the middle position.
Craig, only Eco sol Max, genuine roland.
Chris, I’m not sure I understood what "make of material" mean, excuse my pour English.
I just printed a sample- http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2218/testhy.jpg as you can see the C,M,Y and K are just great. But when the colours are mixed, the grainy effect appears. Then the problem should be in mixing the colours.
How do you think is it normal or there is something to be fixed?
Tanks for the help!

[Craig Newton]

right this is a long shot but when you turn the machine on does it say eco sol max on screen or sol max??

[nikelson]

On the screen also says Eco sol MAX.
🙂

[Peter Dee]

I’d like to revive this thread as I have exactly the same problem on my SP300.
I use SL 8 with the latest version of VPM. Roland Eco Sol Max, Versacamm test print is perfect.
Hexis V351 white gloss with the Hexis profiles.
I’ve tried some other profiles but make no difference.
Solid colours print fine but mixed colours in vectors and photographs have the same grainy look.
Photos are 600 x 600 dpi and I’ve tried them at only 50mm wide.
Problem is the same whether the profile is protected or unprotected.
I’ve gone through 2 to 6 head passes with no difference.
The images have the same effect as if a very high ISO setting has been used on a camera causing "noise".
Any ideas please?
Just how good should a Versacamm photo print be?

[Steve Morgan]

Peter,
I run a similar setup to you ie: SL8 and VPM SP300 and the same ink, I use the supplied Cadlink profiles.
For interest sake I’ve just run a photograph, some solid grey areas and a graduated tint. I printed one each on Oracle 3551 gloss white (SL profile) at standard, fine and best setting.
There is a noticeable difference across the 3, and viewed at a distance of about 300mm it is possible to see the individual dots in the greys easily on the std and fine settings and just on the best. The same is possible in the digital photo although on the best setting it requires a good deal of staring.
I’ll attempt to photograph the results through a magnifying glass, which hopefully will be a lot better than a description.

Steve

[Peter Dee]

That’s interesting Steve. I am using the supplied Hexis profiles.
I have an old scanned black & white photo to print.
The image has a white bleed all around like a typical photo print.
I have filled this in solid white in Photoshop.
However, when printed, the white border has a fine "pepper spray" of scattered tiny dots.
Yet I can print a set of test squares of 6 colours including black, and there is no sign of "spray" around the black.
Ha, just done it with a white border placed over the edges and it has printed clean! I guess Photoshop doesn’t do a thorough job when yo give a 100% fill to an area!

BTW, a colour print on best setting looks very under exposed and generally the colours are all too dark.

[Steve Morgan]

Peter,
Is the white really white? I had an image sent to me last week and the black was tinted green, when I looked at it in SL it wasn’t pure black ie SL RGB black.
All 3 of my colour prints are the same and the exposure looks correct.

Steve

[Martin Oxenham]

RGB Black is not pure black in Signlab or anything else, but made of the three colours. Your printer uses four.
Pure black is only available in CMYK so if you send it in RGB the rip will make it from all the colours and it won’t be pure Black.

[Peter Dee]

Thanks guys, I had filled the area in white but it appears that the fill was not complete.
Martin, I’m still learning on this so bear with me.
If I save an image as RGB then print on best mode it comes out dark.
If I save it a cmyk then import into Signlab it turns dark on screen by the same amount. I then convert back to RGB in Signlab and brighten up the image and it prints at the correct level.
(I go through Signlab in order to contour cut).
Is this the way to do it?

[Steve Morgan]

Martin,
The way black appears in my SL is a zero value for each of R, G & B which means it is only printing from the black cartridge, if I look at in CMYK obviously it’s only the K that has a value ie 100%

Steve

[Martin Oxenham]

I Stand corrected… not being a Signlab user.