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Solvent print & cut curling
Having seen the CJV30 working at sign uk this week I was pretty impressed but am being put off by somebody saying that that we will need to leave the print 24 hrs before cutting them to avoid them curling.
Does this still happen to the same degree with modern solvent inks?
Frankly it seems to make a print and cut machine a bit pointless if this is the case. Yes, I do know you can remove and replace the print for laminating but wouldn’t expect to have to do this to let it dry each time.
Thanks
Colin
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18 Replies
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it’s a very limited amount of curl / shrinkage if you use GOOD media…but chucking budget 2 year stuff in and saturating it with ink isn’t the ideal thing to try to cut through before letting it dry.
However – if you are leaving an unprinted border / profile cut of say 1-2mm round your printed area – I’ve not had any issues with curling…and if it’s all registered up right and done in limited numbers – it’ll not wander off due to errors either.
Anything with cuts through the actual print (bleed print) it’s best to dry them…even if for just an hour or so if possible.
Dave
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Thanks Dave
A large proportion of our print and cut is through the bleed to produce edge to edge printed decals. We currently get a small amount of shrinkage which is acceptable but if they start curling off the sheet and exposing the adhesive then we may need to think again.
Colin
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I’ve found that using ‘bubble free’ vinyl causes MORE issues with edge curl than a standard vinyl. Less contact area and the liner is very, very slippery.
Dave
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If you leave a small white border (say 1 or 2 mm) around the outside edge this will prevent curling.
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im more tempted by the jv33 with seperate cutter.. okay u have production with two machines but the printer has more grip rollers so if media buckles under heat then it will head strike less on the JV33/JV3
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We currently do separate print and cut onto a summa s class but I want to get away from transporting the media across. Registration can be a hit and miss affair and it just feels like double handling, not to mention the waste vinyl back and front on the small jobs.
However, the curling issue will make it all irrelevant if it is a problem.
Colin
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It’s really trial & error…
Ink density, the vinyl used, you print speed, heater temp, length of print run (both meterage & time) will all have a bearing on how dry the job is before you start cutting and whether or not you will get any shrinkage & in the worst case, curling.
I’ve really only had shrinkage when using cheapo vinyl and curling only when the vinyl is so laden with solvent you couldn’t pick up up without it stretching…more an issue of the blade lifting the sticky, inky, floppy vinyl than it curling during any drying.
Dave
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As Dave said you can get a limited amount depending on the amount of ink and the vinyl used.
I’ve just done 300 stickers with a yellow background (and bleed) and they were printed and cut in the same run, I still limit the amount printed in one hit but I think that goes for most of the systems.
If I print dark colours like dark blue, red, black etc then I need to leave them to vent off. You can feel the difference in the vinyl when it’s just been printed.I’m using a Uniform Cadet with Activasol inks.
Steve
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I have a printer and two separate cutters for my print and cut applications. I can outproduce anyone with a print and cut machine in one. I can also do perf cutting without damaging my teflon strips.
My first machine was a print and cut machine and most vinyl manufactures will tell you to let the out gas process take place before cutting into an area which has been printed.
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Jason, I agree that separate print & cut is quicker when you know what you doing. My idea is to automate this for routine legacy jobs which means that two people other than myself will have to be familiar with the process, which as I have said, can be a bit hit and miss at times. Speed is not a big issue for us as the printer sits idle for 90% of the week due to the nature of our work.
Thanks everyone for your help on this but I guess I need to get a demo and some proper samples done of the actual printed products.
Colin
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Are your print and cut jobs mainly on monomeric or polymeric/cast?
You’ll find on monomeric with heavy ink limits you will get curling or increased shrinkage. That’s what I had found with my versacamm.
Maybe the mimaki inks are different.
Your best off testing a sample with CMYK all set to 100% with a profile with an ink limit of about 250% and see how it goes. Thats for a monomeric. The other vinyls should be able to take more ink.
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We would usually use a polymeric for most work on the decal side although occasionally use monomeric and cast when the need arises. If a better vinyl will solve the problem then this may be the answer although I will have to make sure we know what is being used for the demos as I have had this before when you find out later that they were using the very best vinyl available!
It would really be a big benefit to us to have the ability to print a white primer onto clear vinyl as we do on our gerber edge which with 6 spot colours makes for a long winded process currently. Not sure of the white ink will make the process more likely to curl on not.
Colin
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Talking of vinyls watch out for Lg Vinyl and Laminates it crap. APS becuase of the weak pound in europe, they have replaced their tried and tested 3000 range with an LG product beware if you have to lift the Media the digital vinyl for some reason, it stretches like mad,
the laminate is even worse its more like a rather thin toffee on a bog roll backing paper. the slightest bit of movement on the laminater and the print is finished for
it also bubbles like mad.whats the saying save money, buy crap and end up buying twice!
will be going back to metamark!
Simon
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quote Simon James:Talking of vinyls watch out for Lg Vinyl and Laminates it crap. APS becuase of the weak pound in europe, they have replaced their tried and tested 3000 range with an LG product beware if you have to lift the Media the digital vinyl for some reason, it stretches like mad,
the laminate is even worse its more like thin toffee on a bog roll backing paper rather than a laminate . the slightest bit of movement on the laminater and the print is finished for it also bubbles like mad.
whats the saying save money, buy crap and end up buying twice!
will be going back to metamark!
Simon
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I use p&c sometimes, not all the time though, but have never had curling. We get shrinkage, more or less depending on how dark the colour you cut through.
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What vinyl are you using Gavin as some have said it makes a big difference to the curling problem?
Colin
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Avery MPI 2000, it’s not something I do loads of but like I say no curling issues when I have done it.
G
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Thanks Gavin
Thats one we currently use on our valuejet so could be interesting to try if I get around to a demo on the Mimaki
Colin
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