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SilkScreen: Has anybody printed film with a solvent printer?
hi
For screen making process (producing screens from using a film and UV light to block areas on the screen for washing out), has anyone managed to use a Inkjet printer (ours is the Mimaki JV3) to create these films?Normally they are produce by imagesetters or a milky film which is passed through a laser printer. My first thoughts is static cling/self adhesive clear vinyl but it stretches and not sure if the ink will be ‘blocking’ enough.
Wonder if there is a milky film on a roll somewhere? or someone who uses inkjets to produced blockout film (like ruby film but printable)
Need to find an ecomnical way of producing 1000×700 films without ruby’s being cut, sticking A3 (Folex) sheets together or Imagesetting.
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19 Replies
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i have a cadet, but i doubt it would be dense enough.
we print ours via an epsom 600 & a 1290. but you`d have to tile for large projects, bit of a pain.
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I would think that solvent isn’t the way to go for the reasons you mention. I mean even if the media doesn’t distort much it still will because of the heat applied, I would think that just a slight amount would be enough to throw off registration on a multi-coloured job. If you do find a media that does meet your needs you should find somebody with a transmissive densitometre and have them measure your black areas (opacity). Most people I know would be happy if your density read at a dmax of 4 or better. If it reads a lot less than that you might have to adjust your exposure techniques which probably isn’t ideal.
There are a number of firms out there that are making materials for pizio and thermal head ink jets for screen positives. Onyx and Wasatch even have some pretty good screening in their rips too. Maybe that’s the direction to look in?
If you’re doing any type of a volume, I’d look at buying a used imagesetter. With the advance of CtP and CDI suppliers can’t get rid of the traditional devices fast enough. Plus, depending on the laser in the imagesetter you could probably run scanner film which is quite cost effective and available in a nice 7mil thickness.
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All pretty good stuff there Rob, but I think imagesetting would only happen for dot-screen based items and we do mainly print solids and that is the real reason why I am thinking about this. I have never printed back-lit films or anything alike and I just wonder how well it works, I mean cutting isn’t too much of a problem as we contour cut or die-cut stickers for the final result but the cutting ruby canbe an issue for small text etc.
With regards transmissive denisty, this is the issue, if we find a material that can pass enough light though and block with dense ink would be good, the JV3 is controllable with ink layers/passes/dry time between scans so I might be able to layer up the ink. Heat is a possible issue but if the material distorted then I would struggle printing it, as stickers print fairly well out of the JV3 then I think a thick film would, however heating to a very high tempreture might be too much of a worry.
I know image setters are cheap now, couldn’t believe my local printers sold theirs for £5K, cost a fortune before. But it is all about space and chemicals for the processor, thats the bit that can cost especially if you only would use it for 2 days a week.
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quote DaveRowland:Need to find an ecomnical way of producing 1000×700 films without ruby’s being cut, sticking A3 (Folex) sheets together or Imagesetting.hi dave i noticed from your latest post that your positives needed, are only solids…on the area you have mentioned, i just cut the design with 651 and apply to thin clear pvc 😛 anything smaller which the cutter can’t handle i use an epson laser 5800 with postscript 3 and folex film from agfa…only A4 though, the quality is really good 😀 i have tried every item on the market to produce good positives with an inkjet 😮 the print just goes too smudgie & spreads..resulting as you know as a horrible positive 😀
Nik
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quote :have tried every item on the market to produce good positives with an inkjet the print just goes too smudgie & spreads..resulting as you know as a horrible positive
nic, we use injet printers for our positives all the time. using cheap espom printers. films cost approx £20 for a box of A4 (50). Available in A3 too.
they do smudge if you touch them straight out of the printer, but they dry in minutes..
very rarley get a reject, just make sure you print using 1400dpi
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quote :have tried every item on the market to produce good positives with an inkjet the print just goes too smudgie
they do smudge if you touch them straight out of the printer, but they dry in minutes..
very rarley get a reject, just make sure you print using 1400dpigreat they work for you.. 😛 but the smudgie bit is totally visable to me after printing, i did not touch them, just left them for a bit to dry.. 😀 but i was still not happy with it 😀 and i am a fuss pot, the positive has to be totally sharp & dark or i won’t use it sorry.. but i really think the inkjet posi’s were not for me!! 😀
nik
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well we run laser and Folex A3 & A4, we then spray with something that makes it extra dark (cant remember the name of the can), we use a strong projecting UV light which has seen better days.
A little smudging after the can is possible but the girls have mastered it and it is effective. We use a HP 4mV A3.
It is a milky matt finish film, I did try it once in a JV3 and it turned into a river of ink!
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double post
just running through my mind using PVC and cut vinyl mixed with A3 folex, currently using Ruby but it is so fiddly and trying to speed up the whole process too.
Bit of an experiemnt really, started silk screening mulitple stickers onto 1000×700 this week and then kiss cutting with our Mimaki cutter, it finds the marks quite well as we are silk screen printing the cutting marks. Just trying to figure out other ways we can use our currently equipment and print at full 1000×700 size without buying an imagesetter.
Becky, these positives are they milky based or OHP films? OHP film didn’t work for me about 3 years ago.
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quote DaveRowland:double post
just running through my mind using PVC and cut vinyl mixed with A3 folex, currently using Ruby but it is so fiddly and trying to speed up the whole process too.
.ruby…i loved using it only for hand cut stencils though 😀 won’t use it now as the price of the stuff is mad 😮
nik
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the films i use are clear as glass.
smooth one side, rough the other. you print on the rough side, which stops the image sudging.
i`ll sorce the suppler.
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yeah, I heard ruby was expensive but still yet to order a replacement roll, we was given ours.
Becky, I would appreciate that when you got five minutes, kinda feel that I have to investiage this then figure out our options.
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injet film from
colenso on 01928 701356
product code for the A4 is idf31
available in A3 also.
i think you can`t just stick to 1 methoid. It depends upon the image.
printing on film using 1440 dpi takes time. not too bad for A4, A3 takes much longer (depends upon image as well)
for large images we`ve used ruby film, vinyl stuck to clear. we`ve even used tracing paper when we`ve been stuck ( not too clever)
or even when flooding backs of stickers we`ve just taped up the screen.
when i first started i used to sub all films out to a local screen printer, the machine he had was 4ft square, he needed a small room to house the machine/chemicals etc to make his possys.
my printer just sits on a desk by the comp…
its not a perfect method, but it works for us.
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I do photo etching , you can print on vellums , but the density of black is not good enough and doing a double density print is difficult as you lose resolution due to pooling. It does work however in limited fashion.
You need to expose emulsion side down which precludes many clear substrates , clear never prints as well as a white and the density on it is worse than vellums. In other words , we havent had any real success with ours and possies or negs. Our aplication is that we hot lam the metal with a dry photo resist , expose emulsion side down with UV , develop and etch
I think there are co’s that convert inkjets to be able to do separations , I do remember seeing something about it. I think its not able to general printing after. -
Don’t know if you ever got this sorted, but I’ve seen a clear film which can
be used on a large format inkjet, for producing films suitable for screenprinting. I’ll have a look in the brochure when I get back in to work on Monday. They are based in Birmingham, and I think from memory, that the rolls are over a metre wide.Cheers,
Jamie. -
I know this will seem a bit basic – but for easy film positives A4 size buy some OHP film for inkjet printers £10 upwards – they have a rough & smooth side – the rough side holds the ink in place and is dry in 2 min – remember to set printer settings to film setting to get a solid coating of black ink – this ideal for signage & dot patterns down to 2mm dia
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just plot it with 3M cast vinyl 7725 series on the clear backing, and use that like you’d use rubylith or any other positive.
Works for us! -
Ian, how dense is the results, does the ink spread?
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It sounds like my reply was misunderstood…but I’ll answer both versions of it anyway:
To make a positive, with which to burn photosensitive emulsion via UV light, you can use rubylith film, or you can use 3M brand 7725 series cast vinyl film- run it through a plotter and weed as normal. The clear backing carrier works well. You need a good perpendiculart light source, as you don’t want shadows from the depth of the vinyl.
Then expose, wash out & you have a screen. You can also use vellum, and a laser printer. It needs to be a good one, or streaking etc will produce a poor positive. Exposure needs to be a bit longer with vellum. You also use a toner darkener to help blacken the image first.
The second version, is in using vinyl in reverse, weeded as a negative, and you then stick this to the bottom of the screen. Use a thick, cheap calendered vinyl.
Of course it won’t work with halftones…but I’ve done 30 or so fabric/shirt prints nicely & clearly this way. You can start to lose letter centres etc after the count goes up much past 30. Good for chunky stuff!Bleeding/spreading? none that has bothered me- generally the prints are very nice and sharp. You need to flood coat, then print, and have good off-contact height..
The above seldom works for corro/corflute, nor for vinyl screen ink for stickers- just stick with waterbased paints/inks.
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We do the same as Phillip,
You can use 3M Ink OHP transparency film (from Staples) A4 size, and if you play around with the printer settings you can get a soild black image which works well for UV exposing of stencils.
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