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Sign regulation query
Hello all,
I have a customer who enquired about 1 x ‘Do not climb’ and 1 x ‘Danger deep water’ which are to be mounted onto a bridge leading to reception,
they have asked for them to be in their corporate colours of a dark grey background with silver text, is there a legal requirement regarding the colours and text of such signage?many thanks in advance
Jeremy
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21 Replies
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Do not climb – should probably be a red/white (prohibition) & Danger Deep water definitely yellow/black.(danger).
Anything else is not up to the appropriate BS / ISO code and not legal in any way shape or form.
They CAN put up there own stuff in addition – but not in place of the legal ones.
Dave
The do not climb – may be yell/black as Gavin noted…depends if it’s a danger notice or a simple "do not".
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You can make them how you like but they will not conform with BS standards. That is not your problem as long as you let the customer know. Otherwise they should be yellow/black – the deep water one had a logo but not sure about do not climb, possible just an exclamation mark.
G
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Sorry, Dave is right the do not climb should be red/white, don’t think there is a logo though so just the red prohibition thingy (no smoking without the cigarette)
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i think in this day and age we will soon be (if not already) responsible for providing inadequate safety signage.
If the customer has been TOLD (which he probably has) to get safety signage in place by an H&S officer. then you provide him with his nice (keeping in company colours safety sign) and the H&S officer comes back… he will be told to replace them and probably questioned on his source of the signage. keep yourself right, give him a layout using the proper spec for the job, on the same sheet showing the layout of HIS requested signs and ask him to sign it.
this may sound extreme but you need to keep yourself in the clear these days… its like providing number plates for a car using brush script!
in short, i would not supply them in his choice of colours.
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I would have to disagree Rob. I would give the customer whatever they want, as long as you have covered your own back let them worry about theirs. We do a lot of custom safety signs for local factories – you just cant get these of the shelf but as long as they are following the right style they are fine (the main place gets HSE inspections regularly and we have never had a problem)
Let people know if they will not conform to reg’s but don’t turn a job away – it’s a sign – that’s it, you take no responsibility for anything else. We don’t even take responsibility for spelling never mind anything else.
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Thanks all,
This gives me the direction to take.Best regards
Jeremy -
missing the point here
do the signs in the co colours and logo but incorporate the legal stuff and suggested colours with in it
chris
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quote Gavin MacMillan:I would have to disagree Rob. I would give the customer whatever they want, as long as you have covered your own back let them worry about theirs.
isnt that what i said Gavin?
quote Robert Lambie:keep yourself right, give him a layout using the proper spec for the job, on the same sheet showing the layout of HIS requested signs and ask him to sign it.quote Gavin MacMillan:it’s a sign – that’s it, you take no responsibility for anything else. We don’t even take responsibility for spelling never mind anything else.No disrespect Gavin, but it maybe the fact that you are an employee that you seem to overlook the responsibilities "as a company" and the consequences incurred by providing inadequate products to the public.
I tend to look on my product further down the line than just lining my pockets at the end of the week.who knows, maybe this is just my paranoid mind… but i like to sleep the few hours i have left in a day :lol1:
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quote Robert Lambie:No disrespect Gavin, but it maybe the fact that you are an employee that you seem to overlook the responsibilities “as a company” and the consequences incurred by providing inadequate products to the public.
I tend to look on my product further down the line than just lining my pockets at the end of the week.who knows, maybe this is just my paranoid mind… but i like to sleep the few hours i have left in a day :lol1:
Have to agree there Rob. Something in the trades description act about "fit for the intended purpose" rings a bell.
If you’re selling a "safety sign" as a "safety signs"…they’d better be legal!
I’m sure I’d certainly be advising them that they CAN have their version if they want – but it’s not going to cover them legally, and it’s NOT a safety sign…ie. the whole point of safety signs these days – protecting ones own ass from the ‘blame other people’ culture.
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Very important points which will be discussed with them on Monday.
Thanks for your input
Jeremy
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Jeremy
I would personally stick to the BS colours of red/white and black/yellow. If they do want some of their corporate identity on the sign then put their logo at the top or bottom of the sign. I always put my own details at the bottom of all my safety signs for cheap advertising. As long as the pictogram and text block size ratios conform with the BS requirements then you should be OK.
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question came up this weel about the smoking laws signage… the require for that is the red symbol over a no smoking symbol and some words… wanted to make acyrylic versions… so will this customer be using red no smoking signs?
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Thanks everyone for your replies,
I can understand my customers thoughts on this, tasteful informative signage as opposed to legislative graffiti.Jeremy
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I’m not sure the signs would clear you of responsibility for some one hurting or killing them selves anyway.
These days putting up a warning sign is admitting you know about the problem so you should have done something about it.
Postmen have now been told they have a better claim for damages if they are bitten by a dog if the owner has put up a sign saying "beware of the dog" as they have admitted their dog is not under control etc.
Deep water signs and no climbing signs are different though I suppose.
Steve
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quote :If you’re selling a “safety sign” as a “safety signs”…they’d better be legal!
I’m sure I’d certainly be advising them that they CAN have their version if they want – but it’s not going to cover them legally, and it’s NOT a safety sign…ie. the whole point of safety signs these days – protecting ones own ass from the ‘blame other people’ culture.
This is my point – if it’s not got logos and in correct colours it’s not a safety sign! So supply as many as you like. If it is to be a safety sign make sure it’s correct!
If you make signs for a hotel saying ‘luxery en-suite’ do you go round and check their bogs? Or a for sale sign for a ‘as new’ vehicle? I think their is a danger of getting over paranoid and placing to great an importance on signage – people don’t read the bloody things anyway!
I actually agree with most of what is being said and am slightly playing devils advocate. I would make these in corporate colours though, but the customer would be offered proper signs and advised that signs on the own colours will not meet regs.
Quick aside – as far as I understand ‘fit for purpose’ this term is for unhappy customers not unhappy HSE inspectors.
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quote Gavin MacMillan:…Quick aside – as far as I understand ‘fit for purpose’ this term is for unhappy customers not unhappy HSE inspectors.
you are indeed correct, as any contract is between you the supplier & the customer – but what might make that customer unhappy…is an unhappy HSE…and a failed inspection, especially if they were under the belief that the sign supplied would ‘obviously’ be compliant!!
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Once upon a time number plate selling businesses made good money.
when the vinyl cutter brigade began churning out fancy fonts for plates the general public thought "oh i like that" there was then a rise in plates being sold, everyone wanted their own style of font, some wanted numbers tweaked to have the plate read like their name and so on…
along comes the government and slapped the vinyl brigade into touch, aswell as the drivers.
there are now hefty fines for producing dodgy plates and those selling them legally must be registered to do so.this is where safety signs are going and at a rapid rate. ignorance is bliss Gavin, but like i said i think further down the line than the few bob i make from making them.
there will be a time soon when those offering easy to make safety signs, will have to be registered as competent. i for one want to be on that list because there is good money to be made from "properly" made safety signage.In all honesty, i think if you tell the customer changing the colour of his safety signs will make them illegal, "he will listen" why wouldnt he? after all he is actually only ordering them to keep his business in the clear with H&S.
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My point is still the fact that if you make these they ARE NOT safety signs. It can say anything they customer wants – it just doesn’t matter!
If there is going to be regulation about what gets made and registered sign shops to make signs then we would look into that seriously as we do a lot of these and if there were rules about not making certain things we would follow them – but there aren’t.
Numberplates are a good example, if a truck driver comes in and sais he wants a number plate with his name on it to stick in the window of the cab would you not do it? As long as he knows it is not legal where is the harm in making this? The point is the same – this is not a numberplate!
No smoking legislation. In Scotland you must show one sign in a prominent place. That’s it. It has to be the right sign the right size and the right colours. But if a hotel want no smoking signs in every room they don’t have to be any size/colour they can be whatever they want as long as the one legal one is shown somewhere. I have and would make these. We have done nice classy looking signs as hotels don’t want crap looking safety signs in their rooms. This is their choice as the customer.
Just to point out Jeremy never mentioned an HSE inspection or even hinted towards one.
I think my opinion is obvious on this so I’ll leave it at that.
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quote Gavin MacMillan:If there is going to be regulation about what gets made and registered sign shops to make signs then we would look into that seriously as we do a lot of these and if there were rules about not making certain things we would follow them – but there aren’t.
Am i missing something here? There ARE rules that should be followed.
Colours codes for certain signs, graphics must now be used as well as wording… need i go on!Gavin, the cusomer is NOT always right mate… 🙄
quote Gavin MacMillan:if a truck driver comes in and sais he wants a number plate with his name on it to stick in the window of the cab would you not do it?No i wouldnt! ide sell him a bit of dibond with his name on it. same thing and ive not broken the law.
so called "show plates" as they are called, can be bought on ebay for buttons. let them stay there…quote :Just to point out Jeremy never mentioned an HSE inspection or even hinted towards one.he didnt need to! do you think the customer is putting the signs up because there are is no danger to the public? he is trying to cover himself in case there is an accident. i.e. when someone drowns… then who do you think will be chapping his door? 🙄
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Just to catch up,
I had a meeting with my clients yesterday and recommended that all signage related to Health and Safety should be of the prescribed colour and size, although initially there was a few grumbles, I pointed out that displaying corporate colour coded signs may be construed as negligence in the event of an accident……..there was no argument!
As a result I was asked to replace all existing dubious signage.
PS. This is for a building where the local HSE will be having offices.
Cheers
Jeremy -
thank you for the feedback on this Jeremy… i think your approach was the right one mate.
You have given your customer professional advise based on the legality of their signage request. which i have no doubt gave them reassurance in dealing with your company. so much so they have taken note and asked you to replace their existing safety signage, ultimately gaining you more work as a result… well done!
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