Sign design vs. Graphic Design…

[Bob Clarkson]

I’ve been doing this 25yrs, and designed masses of logos etc, and fully agree. Customers view it as part of the whole job with us, but will pay way over the top for a often badly proportioned logo from a design house. They are often disproportionate because they don’t seem to realise down-scaling a drawing works better than up-scaling.

Not of late, but I have designed stuff for graphic designers and earned more than I could get away with even after they’ve taken a cut.

[Jason Xuereb]

The problem is in our industry we don’t value our design work.

Official graphic designers do because they charge a premium to cover this design skills, software, computers etc etc.

A lot of people in the sign industry give away their design time for free to secure the sign work itself when they are two different services.

So if the industry itself gives a lot of work away for free then why should customers appreciate the value of it?

Have you ever seen a graphic designer give away their work so they can secure a 500 business card order? If you have they aren’t graphic designers they are doing the same thing our industry does.

[Vincent Paul Brown]

Absolutely. It’s a tricky balance as I know I would lose a lot of jobs to local rival companies if I put a price in that looks high for artwork compared with the signage itself.
Often I try and include it in the cost of the sign work itself as like you say, they don’t appreciate the value of the design work on it’s own merit.

Hmmm..

[Warren Beard]

agreed, the only points I can think of in regards to a difference between me (as a sign maker) and a designer (qualified) is just that, I presume the fact that they have spent 3 years completing a design course and are more qualified to produce a design and can therefor charge more (as it works the same in all other industries)

This doesn’t take in to account naturally talented people who can design just from instinct or wherever these people get their mojo from or even just a skill you developed over many years. These people should also be charging a premium for their skill whether or not it is an actual qualification or not, if they have a skill they should charge for it.

The point is that an unskilled "designer" should be charging less than a skilled one, I am unskilled and therefor charge much less than a skilled designer would, I will eithet state the charges up front or incorporate in to the job. Only the odd large job which has an easy "layout" might get it wavered but ultimately I am still compensating for it in the quote as I wouldn’t do a job without charging for "design" if I knew it wasn’t worth it.

by the way I also treat "layout" and "design" as 2 completely separate skill sets.

cheers

Warren

[Warren Beard]

sorry side note on "value"

I think it is more important the customer values our design work as they will pay for value, it’s just up to us to sell it to them in such a way that they value us as they would a designer. If we don’t tell them we are designers who makes signs then we are just sign makers and all they expect to pay for is a sign.

How many customers have you had that went to a design agency to get designs made up for signs? nothing else, just signs? I’ve had a few and I always ask them why and they normally just presumed that I needed a design to make the sign from, they don’t know that we supply both services as we usually just advertise ourselves as Signmakers.

Personally I charge for my time which is way below a designers rate, I’m not a designer but can do effective layouts, I have an hourly rate and charge that based on how long I think it will take, besides, we all have expensive computers and software to do that part of the work and so that part of the work should be charged for to cover those costs and for future upgrades and repairs etc, when you work out how much a sign should cost you don’t factor in the costs of buying your computer and software do you? That is where charging for the time spent on it comes in. Charging a design rate should be added if appropriate.

cheers

Warren

[Andrew Martin]

quote Vincent Paul Brown:

I’ve been in the industry for a while now (13yrs) and just wondered of others opinion on logo & sign design vs. ‘official’ graphic designers.

It seems that customers never value a Sign makers design work but will happily pay through the nose to go to a graphic designer and get much the same thing!

Any thoughts?

Look at it from a customers point of view.. If you advertise yourself as a sign maker or printer, then that’s what you do.. produce or manufacture signs from designs put in front of you unless you offer a full design service, But.. graphic design is a strange thing, you may see your effort as a great design, but there will also be a customer who has a different opinion and wants endless changes and the project spirals upwards then questions your price or even refuses to pay….
let the customer come up with the design from a graphic designer and save yourself the grief.

Of course there will be different opinions on this..

[Vincent Paul Brown]

See what your saying Andy but I like to design my own signs where possible
as it gives a good impression on our company I feel. You know, the old USP (unique selling point) which stands you out from the crowd.

Would be a lot less hassle though agreed! 😀