Should I invest in a cutter or a printer/cutter?

[Hugh Potter]

welcome to the board dude, i’m new to this myself, no background in design etc, just had the plotter cutter for my race car graphics, and when i lost my job i figured i’d go for it !

i dont know what background you have, if you can use printer cutters and have some background knowledge in the industry, then go for it, for £12k you could probably do a deal with the supplier and buy both ?

i find that being totally new tho, gives me more than enough to worry about and learn without going into the design and print side too, a cutter will do me for a while !

good luck !

Hugh

[Robert Lambie]

this may seem to contradict some of my past replies, but I’m basing this on you starting out fresh.
to do it right you want a solvent or Eco solvent printing / cutting machine machine. (personally ide say solvent machine) don’t forget there are also printers coupled with a vinyl cutter that do the same job. various prices, but you get what you pay for i guess.
if you are starting totally fresh and no experience of large print machines is say stay clear for the time being! there is a massive learning curve involved in printing, which can prove costly should things not go just right. when starting up, there are many things needing done to drum up business, quote on jobs, deliveries/collections… actually design and make the signs. last thing you need is to sit with your head in a book trying to figure out what profiles are and why something isn’t working right. whilst at the back of your mind you need to be paying the bills or doing something a bit more creative with your time.
i maybe wrong, you may already know what is needed and have experience, if so, ignore the above :lol1:
my advice to you would be to buy the best, widest cutter you can afford. doesn’t have to be the dearest, just a good brand at the right width.
ide say a 48″ wide one would be a good option, even though there are 54inch and 60inch wide ones available.
buy in some stock on vinyls, but dont go daft on colours. primary colours, black and white and a few mid shades. only get about 10metres of the mid shades though, if you need more you can easily get next day delivery for £10 or no delivery charge if over a certain amount.
get some good sign software that can easily be added too should you move onto digital printing later.
if you really need a digital print there are lots of trade printers out there doing it at good prices. just buy the prints in until you feel you have (a) enough steady print work to pay for the machine (b) need the prints quicker than a trade printer can offer.

oh and welcome aboard mate 😉

[Alan Drury]

Just to add to Rob’s post, I personally would go for a 610 plotter because the vast majority of vehicle lettering can be done on this size, the rolls of vinyl are cheaper so you can have more selection for the same money and also they are easier to handle and store. Print is not hard to buy in and there are probably suppliers, possibly local to you who would love have their machine work a little harder and if you can give them a file ready to go it would be good business for the pair of you.
Alan

[Rodney Gold]

I have to disagree with some posters 🙂
I feel the days of plotters are coming to an end. A print and cut machine can do soooo much more and open many more avenues for you.
You can do fine detailed text , work on papers , meshes , directly print banners , do wraps , full colour signs , backlits , blockouts , fabrics , decals etc etc. The list is limited to your creativity and not really to the machine. The cost of digital printers , inks and media are plummeting these days.
Today , customers want more than just solid largish letters (which you can still do with a print and cut machine) and to be able to say yes to them when that ask for full colour means a lot.
Why limit yourself to vehicle signage when with a P&C you can take on just about anything that comes along.
I don’t believe the learning curve is so much more complex either , especially if you are doing layered work in single colours or more complex solid work.
Of course the longevity of solid colour vinyl is better than printed , but at the end of it all , its somewhat of a red herring cos impact is what counts in advertising , a solid boring message on a car that lasts for 5 yrs is ultimetly far less effective than an eye catching one that lasts for 2
Be aware , you HAVE to protect printed graphics on a vehicle , so budget for a laminator or to apply a liquid coating to the printed graphic.

[Andrew Bennett]

Thanks for that info Rodney

[Robert Lambie]

hi Rodney
you know what i am going to say here mate :lol1: :lol1:
not in anyway bad intended of course, but i have to disagree. 😕
i agree totally with you regarding the machine such as a cadet opens far more doors than just a cutter.
if taraswolf is starting from scratch on all accounts here, e.g. business plan, advertising, premises etc etc etc can he really afford to sit down and learn one of these machines when all sorts of other things must be getting done? phones going, customer walks in, machines head crashes, mobile goes and guy wants shop quote now… Bedlam/headaches & stress come to mind. OK I’m exaggerating but for a one man band this is pretty realistic. he is not just learning a printer, hes learning about almost all aspects of our trade. the right vinyls to use and where, how to construct a panatrim sign, where to get the A-board he is after, chase sales, design and more… i just think if he gives himself maybe a 6 month period to find his feet. after all, lets say business is bad and he cant get the sales to pay a wage let alone a 10K machine, stock premises etc?
if the role is reversed and it was you or i, then definitely… we have staff to cover us while we get our heads round a problem or just to sit for a few hours reading up on stuff. but to delve in head first i feel its a bit much to ask of one person when so many other things will be going on at this point in his business.
i know i, and many folk on the boards that have several years experience in sign making bought printers and months down the line we are still admitting its a steep learning curve. i just picture myself in that early stage again with everything else being new to me too and ide honestly feel stretched to the max.
maybe i am wrong, and maybe taraswolf knows much more than i am giving credit for. i guess i am just assuming at this stage.

who knows, maybe ill be eating my sporran in public twice in one week :lol1: :lol1:

[Iain Gordon]

Rob,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. After recently coming into the industry I have had all on just getting the business in. It is by no means guaranteed, no matter how good or competitive you are.

I would love to have a cadett or similar, but it is far more ecconomical for me to outsource any printing needs i have…not having a printer does not stop me offering the service.

I would hope to have a printer/cutter within about 18 months once i have established my business and found out which direction it is going in.

I dont think that having 2 cutters at that time would be a bad thing, i suspect it would be more of an asset.

So, getting back to the original question…. i would get a good quality cutter, some stock of vinyl, decent software..an outlay of about £3000.

Establish your business and take it in a positive direction, after which you will have a better idea where to invesrt your money.

Cheers
Iain

[Andy Gorman]

Loads of good points raised there. What I would have asked first though is what experience do you already have Taraswolf? I’m not being snobby but if you are a complete newbie to the sign trade I wouldn’t recommend diving in with printing equipment costing 10k plus. You can run a perfectly viable business with 3 grands’ worth of kit – 610mm cutter, software and a few tools. I wouldn’t buy a large format printer until I knew I had the market for it, or at least enough potential work to justify it. I can buy in laminated print at £29 a metre; it would take a very nice order to make me buy my own printer at the moment.

[Alan Wharton]

Iv opened up a can of worms here i see lol.
Ok my experience within the sign trade is very very limited as in iv ordered thousands of £’s worth of car signs over the years and put them on cars as my brother has a large car body repair buisness which mainly deals in Motor sport repair and respray etc so i do know how to fit the decals/stickers etc.
The manufacturing/printing of these signs i have only ever watched them being drawn up on the pc printed and aplication tape applied so very little knowledge of this side of the buisness.
This is going to be a family run buisness and my 22 year old daughter is also coming in with me which is great as she is a arty farty grafic designer :lol1:
Atm my brothers buisness deals with the factory ford wrc team and also subaru he also has a contract with the Works moto gp yamaha team last year alone those 3 teams paid in excess of 50k for vehicle grafics which many of those i fitted including the 40ft Trailers of the Yamaha team Trucks (that was a nightmare and took 3 days 😳 )
The reason i was thinking of getting a printer/cutter from the start is it is capable of doing all of these grafics where the cutter alone is not and a 10-12k outlay is not a problem or as Dell Boy would say Who dares wins Rodney Who dares wins 🙂
Hope this helps and thx for the replies.

[Robert Lambie]

these graphics mate, how long are they on the cars?
what size are we talking?

[Andy Gorman]

If the 10-12K outlay is ‘not a problem’ then go for it. If money was no issue I’d buy one. Don’t forget it could also cost you 2 or 3 grand for software.

[Alan Wharton]

Car size gfx Subaru ford Focus and motor bike fairings etc the car gfx the longest i think was 6ft long 2 1/2 ft high.

The 2 machines i have narrowed down to are the Roland versaCamm 54inch or the Uniform Grenaier 54inch although the Cadet looks impressive aswell but acording to the salesman i was talking to about these 2 he advised the grenadier as it is a much better work horse where as the cadet is as he put it a part time machine !

[Robert Lambie]

do these graphics come as solid colours mostly? or even multiples of colours but not blends or that sorta thing. reason i say is as far as i know/have seen these are normaly all cut graphics from a vinyl cutter.
ide see benifit for smaller stuff but for long term use they would then have to be laminated also.

[Alan Wharton]

A lot of the wrc car gfx are blended colors abd a normal cutter just would not be able to do these gfx, hence going straight for the printer cutter.
Motor racing dont laminate or lacker any gfx because its a git to remove when the car is crashed! which is regular lol, and the changing sponsorship every few months so life span of these gfx is a few months max.

[Andrew Boyle]

I would still have to agree with Rob a 1220 branded plotter to begin with buy a load of materials, this and all the rest of this stuff will all add up.

Sub out your digital work until it the time it becomes obvious you need a digital printer, then buy the best one you can.

By this time you’ll know what you need and be far better able to deal with the cr@p that goes with it.

Cheers

Andrew

[Robert Lambie]

well in that case, if they are short term, and money is not so much an issue ide say buy a versacamm. that’s IF, they are only for racing cars and the like. this machine comes with very little maintenance if any, and if abrasion and the like doesn’t come into play then that’s the way to go.
the learning is still the same though, so your daughter will have her plate full for a while doing the designing, cutting and printing. but at least you have the assistance of her doing this while you deal with other things.
the fact you already have customers is a BIG plus…
a tip though would be to remember to keep the print enviroment very clean. that goes for the vinyls etc too… although this machine can be used as stand alone cutter, dirt/dust etc plays a big part in the start of your problems.

if it were me, id still go for a cadet, but if you dont need the durabilty then… fair enough.